lfnetwork.com mark read register faq members calendar

Thread: The Expert Forum
Thread Tools Display Modes
Post a new thread. Add a reply to this thread. Indicate all threads in this forum as read. Subscribe to this forum. RSS feed: this forum RSS feed: all forums
Old 05-02-2006, 10:12 AM   #1
machievelli
Local curmudgeon
 
machievelli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Las Vegas Nevada
Posts: 2,830
Current Game: Dungeonseige series
Hot Topic Starter Veteran Fan Fic Author Helpful! Forum Veteran 
The Expert Forum

As the critic, I have constantly pointed out the misues of military terms. I am sometimes guilty of misusing terms myself. When I was writing the first part of Republic Dawn, I was asking for advice from someone know knows the subject.

By the same token I have been asked about alien species and story lines. No biggie, I actually have been enjoying my stint here, and research is what I love to do.

We all need help and a little bit of expert advice. So here is where you can get it.

Post your question, and one of us that really knows will give you the run down. The first two posts after this are going to Generic information about Naval and Ground Forces. Just a basic 'this is what you have to work with. using X.'
Maybe later you'll give me some hard questions.


'To argue with those who have renounced the use and authority of reason is as futile as to administer medicine to the dead.' Now who said that?

From the one who brought you;
What we die for...
Acceptance
KOTOR excerpts
Star Wars: The Beginning
Star Wars: Republic Dawn
Return From Exile

Last edited by machievelli; 05-02-2006 at 10:17 AM. Reason: typo
machievelli is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-02-2006, 10:59 AM   #2
machievelli
Local curmudgeon
 
machievelli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Las Vegas Nevada
Posts: 2,830
Current Game: Dungeonseige series
Hot Topic Starter Veteran Fan Fic Author Helpful! Forum Veteran 
The Army:

I will start at the top so when you send out you 'squad', we can all work out how many people would be in it. If asked I will wax lyrical on 'troops (Cavalry or tanks) and if asked, I will also do this for snub fighters.

The Army:
An army is usually considered all of the troops you have, from the kid who is doing KP to the whatever many star Genral you have in command. But the Term 'army' when using troops in the field has a specific meaning when a military man is leading toops.

The standard for most European militaries and the US is about 100,000 men, comprising three corps of troops and the necessary add on units. If you have more than two armies working in tandem, they are what is called an Army Group.

The Russians during WWII had what they called Fronts, and they are what we would call an Army. Usually commanded by a General (4 stars)

Corps:
A corp is made up of between two and three Divisions and is usually comprised of about 35-60,000 men. Again, the variation in numbers is because of what it is composed of. Infantry units are heavier in manpower, Armor heavier in tanks (But smaller in men because you count the number of thanks, not their crews). This is what the Russians called an Army in WWII. Usually commanded by a Lieutenant (3 star) General

Division: A division depending on it's designation has between 8,000 and 16000 troops. It is composed of 2 or three Brigades. In large scale combat, this is the standard formation usually deployed. The only army in the world that has never fielded a Division is the Nation of Israel, which uses the Brigade as their standard large field unit. Usually commanded by a Major (Two star) General.

Brigade. A brigade is between 4,000 and 6,000 men, made up of two to three Regiments. This is also the size of what the United States fields as a Cavalry Regiment. A brigade is commanded by (You probably guessed it) a Brigadier General.

All of the units above have additional attached units assigned for operations, but not really belonging to it. Artillery, combat engineers, medical, supply, air support, signals, MPs etc. They can swell the numbers from the smaller amount to the larger quite readily.

Regiment:
A regiment is standardized at approximately 1500 men, but before that standardization, this was the largest unit of the British Army back during the Imperial Expansion. Some Regiments of the old British army had as many as 4,000 men because they recruited so well, but others numbered only eight or nine hundred. They finally created a standard size during WWI, where they actually fielded a lot of the larger units for the first time. A Regiment is made up of between 2 and 3 Battalions. Usually commanded by a Colonel.

Battalion:

A batallion is between five and six hundred men and is comprised of between 4 and six companies. One Company of this would be called Headquarters Company, and has the job you would expect. If you are reading a book anmd they talk about 'Head and head', this is who they are referring to. It is usually comanded by a Major.

Company:
A company is between 100 and 120 men, broken into 3 to four Platoons though standard in the US is 109. Again you have an additional group called Headquarters, and part of it would be the Heavy weapons platoon. When you see the guys carrying mortars and machine guns, they are usually part of the heavy weapons units. Commanded by a Captain.

Platoon:
Now we're getting to where most of what you see in Star Wars is happening. The platoon is 30-50 men depending on their composition, and is broken into 4 squads. The basic number if you look in the Field Infantry Officer's guide states that this unit is 44 men. One squad, again, is Headquarters, with heavy weapons sometimes added on in an additional squad. This is actually the lagrest unit that has an officer attached, commanded by a 1st or second lieutenant.

Squad:
The squad is the smallest 'organized' unit an army has. It is composed of 8-12 men, and is usually led by a sergeant.

Now it is rare for one of these units to have more than the number assigned, but it is not rare for it to have far less. One 'Brigade' of troops at the battle of the bulge numbered only 3,000 men when the battle started and less than a thousand at the end. The only other times you have a much smaller number is like the IRA who tried to convince the British that they had a lot more troops than they did by having a 'brigade' in every little town.

I have not covered special units or snub fighters here, but that is for later posts.


'To argue with those who have renounced the use and authority of reason is as futile as to administer medicine to the dead.' Now who said that?

From the one who brought you;
What we die for...
Acceptance
KOTOR excerpts
Star Wars: The Beginning
Star Wars: Republic Dawn
Return From Exile

Last edited by machievelli; 05-02-2006 at 11:02 AM. Reason: typos
machievelli is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-02-2006, 11:58 AM   #3
machievelli
Local curmudgeon
 
machievelli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Las Vegas Nevada
Posts: 2,830
Current Game: Dungeonseige series
Hot Topic Starter Veteran Fan Fic Author Helpful! Forum Veteran 
The navy:

The only real problem I have with the Star Wars movies is when they show 600 meter long (1800 feet, twice the size of the Nimitz) ships slugging it out at literally age of sail broadside range. I know intellectually that they need to do this for those who would consider a real naval battle about as interesting as watching paint dry, but still! Star Trek always had the same problem. You have two ships at 500 kilometers distance (About two thirds of the distance from Los Angeles to San Francisco) looking close enough that you'd worry about collision.

The other problem which I will now address is what types of ships there are, and the names of the units they would normally travel in.

Class Vs Type:

A ship class is the name given to ships of a specific design. The Iowa class battleship is a specific group of four ships built in the 1940s. The Nimitz class is a specific group of six aircraft carriers at present.

A number of people have commented about the 'interdictor' class cruiser used in both the books set in the present Star Wars timeline, and the ship of the same class in KOTOR, which is 4,000 odd years past. I think what happened was the designers of the game knew little about actual nomenclature, and merely used it. That doesn't mean it couldn't be the same class name used. It has happened before, just not that often. I looked and automatically assumed that they meant Interdictor type.

As an example The Atlanta and Baltimore and Northampton classes are all cruisers (class) but the Atlanta, armed with nothing bigger than a 5" gun is considered an Anti-aircraft cruiser, Baltimore with six" guns a standard light cruiser, and the Northampton with her 8" a heavy cruiser. (See types)

Some of these get hopelessly confused, such as calling a ship a dreadnought (Which was an English Battleship class) but assigned in a SW book to what I would consider a cruiser) and another one with no specific type a Destroyer where I would call it a Battleship.

Type:
A type of ship is the designation of it's specific function. Escorts of course act as escorts for convoys, larger warships, etc. But Three of the ships that follow are also primarily designed as 'escorts' for larger ships.

The smallest unit in a modern navy is what is called the Corvette. It is lightly armed, and except for units designed by the Russians in the 60s and 70s assigned to escort and patrol duties. They are what you run into if you're trying to smuggle something into a core system.

The next up is where confusion sets in because it is the frigate. A frigate is a fast ship designed for long range patrols. This is what would chase you if you smuggle spice out of Kessel in other words. The name fell out of vogue between the beginning of the all steel warships of the late 19th century, and came back into vogue during WWII.

Then you have the destroyer, which got it's name from 'Torpedo boat destroyer', what it did during WWII, which was being destroy torpedo boats. During that war, the torpedo boats are what would have been called corvettes before that war, and were destroyers in everything but size. The name was shortened in the interim between the wars.

'I've outrun cruisers, not the local bulk types, I'm talking the big Corellian ones' said Han Solo. He was referring to one of the oddball designs which Star Trek has created in abundance, the ship that has so many duties, they probably get confused. A bulk cruiser is not only a warship, it handles supply runs, science missions etc. It has to be big because it needs all of the extra cubage for storage and what usually gets shorted is weapons and engines. A cruiser is a larger vessel, usually assigned to solitary patrols. It is well armed because when it needs help, it's highly unlikely that it will have it.

I won't go larger, because while a Star Destroyer or Super Star Destroyer are technically battleships, they aren't called that.

In company:

The formations are broken into Fleets, Task Force, Task Groups, Squadrons, Flotillas, and Divisions in their order from large to small. A fleet is all of the ships assigned to a specific area (Such as US 7th fleet which is assigned to the Pacific). This can be anywhere from 60 to 100 ships on the average. It is broken down into Task Forces as needed with no set number of them to a fleet.

A task force is, as the name implies, assigned to a specific task. They are usually designated by the fleet they are assigned to, and a number setting when they were formed. In the US Navy a Carrier task force has a carrier or two, and their escorts. A Surface Action Group (SAG) has larger ships that use gunfire to kill an enemy vessel, with their escorts. As an example 7th fleet above would have two carrier task forces (Two separate carriers and about 8-15 escort vessels each) and one or two SAGs comprised of 2 or 3 cruisers and their escorts.

The only difference between a Task Force and a Task Group is that a group is smaller. The SAG above could split in half, and become say Task Groups 7.2.1 and 7.2.2.

Squadrons and Flotillas are treated as pretty much interchangable, but actually a Squadron is a group of up to 8 ships of the same class operating together. It is usually assigned to the larger ships, so a group of 8 cruisers would be called a Squadron. A flotilla is small craft, meaning destroyers or smaller, and can number up to 15 though standard is 12.

A division of ships is two or more (But less than a the numbers above) operating together on a specific mission.


'To argue with those who have renounced the use and authority of reason is as futile as to administer medicine to the dead.' Now who said that?

From the one who brought you;
What we die for...
Acceptance
KOTOR excerpts
Star Wars: The Beginning
Star Wars: Republic Dawn
Return From Exile

Last edited by machievelli; 05-02-2006 at 12:00 PM. Reason: even more typos
machievelli is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-02-2006, 01:07 PM   #4
Jae Onasi
Antiquis temporibus, nati tibi similes in rupibus ventosissimis exponebantur ad necem
 
Jae Onasi's Avatar
 
Status: Super Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 10,912
Current Game: Guild Wars 2, VtMB, TOR
Alderaan News Holopics contributor Helpful! LucasCast staff Veteran Fan Fic Author 
My primary field is medicine, so just about anything in that field is fair game, and if I don't know it I can usually find out. Caveat: I can tell you how specific diseases can affect the body, but I am not able to give out specific medical advice to people on their specific medical problems. Without actually seeing someone, it's impossible to sort through the many things that could be causing the problem. That and my liability insurance company would be most unhappy.
My particular specialty is eyes/vision/optics.
Since we have to take so much science for the med field, I can provide information in varying degrees on chemistry (biochemistry, organic, inorganic), pharmacology, anatomy and physiology, microbiology, general biology (just about any type except botany), and physics.
I can also answer questions on:
Nursing
Statistics (the more basic things)
French (though I'm not entirely sure how that would pertain to SW )
History (in varying degrees but particularly French history, Martin Luther King Jr., history of medicine and science, and Renaissance/medieval)
Weather
Birds (wild, not cage)
Gardening
Experiences with babies/young children
Christianity (including apologetics, and I know a whole lot more about Protestantism than Catholicism)
Taekwondo
Politics (that's not my expertise, but I certainly don't mind giving an opinion. )

Since I don't have the opportunity to see every thread every day (not enough hours in the day to do that!), if you have a question, it's probably best to PM me or ask here.


From MST3K's spoof of "Hercules Unchained"--heard as Roman medic soldiers carry off an unconscious Greek Hercules on a 1950's Army green canvas stretcher: "Hi, we're IX-I-I. Did somebody dial IX-I-I?"

Read The Adventures of Jolee Bindo and see the amazing Peep Surgery
Story WIP: The Dragonfighters
My blog: Confessions of a Geeky Mom--Latest post: Security Alerts!
Love Star Trek AND gaming? Check out Lotus Fleet.

Jae Onasi is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-02-2006, 02:44 PM   #5
JediMaster12
Dum Spiramus Tuebimur
 
JediMaster12's Avatar
 
Status: Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Buried in books...literally
Posts: 5,933
Current Game: Assassin's Creed
LFN Staff Member Veteran Fan Fic Author Contest winner - Fan Fiction Forum Veteran 
My area in in the realm of all things ancient and mythological. Being an anthropologist, I have reference to cultures and traditonal patterns. I am not up to date on current groups but I know of historical groups. My primary field is in Mesoamerica with a concentration on the Aztecs. I also have a wide source list and symbology books that range from Hinduism, Judaism, Buddhism, Christianity, occult/Wiccan, Shinto, samurai, some Middle eastern, Middle Age/ Mideveal, Rennaissance. Mostly I have alot on religions and symbology. Some cultural ethnographies as well. I have a library that I am constantly adding to. My recent additions were China and Tibet.
Best bet is to PM me with questions or at LF.

JediMaster12 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-02-2006, 03:33 PM   #6
machievelli
Local curmudgeon
 
machievelli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Las Vegas Nevada
Posts: 2,830
Current Game: Dungeonseige series
Hot Topic Starter Veteran Fan Fic Author Helpful! Forum Veteran 
Or maybe they can ask you here in this column?

It's not like I am the only one with specialized knowledge among us.

If someone decided to find a new planet, they might want a selection of native customs...


'To argue with those who have renounced the use and authority of reason is as futile as to administer medicine to the dead.' Now who said that?

From the one who brought you;
What we die for...
Acceptance
KOTOR excerpts
Star Wars: The Beginning
Star Wars: Republic Dawn
Return From Exile
machievelli is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-02-2006, 03:53 PM   #7
Jae Onasi
Antiquis temporibus, nati tibi similes in rupibus ventosissimis exponebantur ad necem
 
Jae Onasi's Avatar
 
Status: Super Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 10,912
Current Game: Guild Wars 2, VtMB, TOR
Alderaan News Holopics contributor Helpful! LucasCast staff Veteran Fan Fic Author 
Cutmeister pointed out that I had all my party going aboard a potentially hostile ship and was worried about what might happen. I read that and went 'oh yeah, should have thought about that' though since I've never had the opportunity to board hostile ships, I'm probably being a bit tough on myself.

When I tried to do (an admittedly brief) research online, I came up with zip for any guidelines (and the SEALs don't like to tell.). So, any thoughts?

JM12--I wouldn't mind picking your brain on more Li'adin culture, even if some details aren't used in the story itself. I'd like to make it more 'real.'


From MST3K's spoof of "Hercules Unchained"--heard as Roman medic soldiers carry off an unconscious Greek Hercules on a 1950's Army green canvas stretcher: "Hi, we're IX-I-I. Did somebody dial IX-I-I?"

Read The Adventures of Jolee Bindo and see the amazing Peep Surgery
Story WIP: The Dragonfighters
My blog: Confessions of a Geeky Mom--Latest post: Security Alerts!
Love Star Trek AND gaming? Check out Lotus Fleet.

Jae Onasi is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-02-2006, 04:18 PM   #8
The Doctor
Retired
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 4,415
Current Game: Skyrim
Forum Veteran 
I pride myself in being an expert at technobabble. If you anyone needs to ocme up with a name for a device, or get information on what a certain device might do, I'll be glad to help!
The Doctor is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-02-2006, 10:53 PM   #9
Hallucination
Baron von Sexy
 
Hallucination's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,875
Current Game: HKO closed beta
I'm a grammar/punctuation/spelling troll, so if anyone wants me to give their fic a little attention I'll see what I can do.


Let's kill ourselves.
Hallucination is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-03-2006, 01:37 AM   #10
Diego Varen
Left and may not return
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 4,850
Contest winner - Fan Fiction 
I might not be the best person, but ask me if you need a good storyline for a Fic.
Diego Varen is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-03-2006, 02:02 AM   #11
machievelli
Local curmudgeon
 
machievelli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Las Vegas Nevada
Posts: 2,830
Current Game: Dungeonseige series
Hot Topic Starter Veteran Fan Fic Author Helpful! Forum Veteran 
Boarding Actions:
Or:
The Few The Proud

One part of combat everyone remembers is the boarding action at the start of Star Wars A New Hope.

Having been asked to explain the mechanics of such as operation, I will use the same scene, but from the other side.
You are Captain Taggart, Strormtooper. Darth Vader had ordered that the Tantive IV, CEC Corvette Blockade runner that has just been captured be boarded, and you are in charge of the boarding action.
The ship has four access ways, two on the hammerhead port and Starboard, Two aft forward of engineering, so you spilt your company of 100 men into 4 25 man teams. You have chosen to enter Port forward.
You have relaxed a little, after all, you are not boarding an enemy warship, but at the same time you are worried that it is a civilian ship-

Yes, you at the back of the room. Why the dichotomy? Well it’s simple really. If you board an enemy warship, you can expect someone a lot like you in charge. Since you probably went to the same type of Academy, you would be able to at least try to anticipate what he’s going to do. You also are more careful, because you don’t have a deck plan, which you do for Tantive IV. This isn’t the only Corvette CEC built after all.

And while civilian ships have individually seal able compartments, no commercial ship would match the sheer mass of compartments aboard a Warship. Besides which a military vessel undoubtedly would have intruder/anti boarding systems. Blast doors that seal off areas of the ship that you have to either cut or blast through. Every step contested by men as good at their job as you are.

But it is a fact of ship building that no two ships of the same class are exactly the same. They have quirks, maybe the engineers who designed them changed a drawing. That deck plan might cause you to put your troops in the wrong place. At the same time you’re nervous because you may not expect to face regular combat troops, but there is the old saying ‘the best swordsman in the world isn’t afraid of number 2, he’s afraid of the idjit who just picked up a sword, because no one knows what he might do‘. What if this guy has a pet rancor, say? Brrrr.

So you address your entry way. The only question you had for lord Vader was ‘how much breakage is acceptable?’ Meaning, what percentage of the crew can be considered expendable? Vader tell you he’d really like some prisoners to interrogate. If you are under heavy fire, you are to show no mercy. If not, subdue.

This is an important factor you needed to consider. It limits the weapons you can use. First you sideline the Blastech T-21 light repeaters and the E-webs. Good weapons but they have too much penetration and moving a heavy tripod weapon is stupid in a passageway. You put away the rocket launchers and the frag grenades. These would cause shrapnel, and that could punch holes in the hull. The only holes you want are the ones you have planned on. After all, the enemy isn’t in heavy armor (You hope) and without the breathing systems your suits have, they’d die. Best not to disappoint Vader. So it’s E-11s, stun and smoke grenades, and stunners. Not to worry about too much penetration, the E-11 has little-

Excuse me? An E-11 uses a focused pulse of energized ionized plasma. It transfers not a projectile, but heat to the target, Against flesh it causes a steam explosion as it heats it to about 3,000 degrees instantaneously. On hull plating or most materials used on a ship, it is only going to melt about 5 cubic centimeters, less than the thickness of the hull, so no problem. Against armor such as you wear it will melt what it hits, blowing it through the men wearing it. Your armor is only supposed to try to redirect that jet of death, Like a helmet during the old wars having it means you have a better chance to survive, not that you‘re suddenly superman.

You give your final orders to the teams attacking. Maximum frightfulness on entry. You want to literally sweep the enemy under with firepower if necessary. Anyone unarmed is to be taken down with minimum force, but it’s unlikely anyone of real importance will be standing down here with a blaster pistol in hand, right? If they’re wounded they can be questioned, so no mercy rounds.

Ready, you signal to your entry team. These men are carrying breaching charges, strips designed for just this occasion. They set them along the hinge and lock side of the hatch. These are ignited by small thermite charges, and literally burn around the hatch at such a high rate of speed, that it might as well be explosives. The last thing you do is point to the squad behind the entry team, and they ready smoke grenades.

On the count, all four teams set off the charges. The thermite burns through the hull before they set off the strips. Then they go and you’re buffeted by the blast. As the hatch explodes inward, the first squad sets off their smokers, throwing them ahead. All the enemy can see is a wall of white mist. The first squad doubles forward, crouched, looking.

They see the enemy down behind cover, and the lead man of the squad reports as they engage. The enemy has standard civilian model blasters, not as powerful as your E11s, and while you lose some men, you push forward smoothly. As the squad reaches the first cross corridor it splits, half facing forward, half aft. The second squad leapfrogs them. The fourth squad takes first squad’s place facing aft and first squad starts the process of moving compartment by compartment one way, fourth another, second continues in a beeline advance to link up with the second platoon across the ship from you. This important. You can’t allow the enemy to pen you into a small area, and if you ignore the cross corridor they will use it to advance into your flank. By the same token a man quietly waiting in one of those compartments that is bypassed can pop out and ruin a trooper’s day.

Once the link up is complete, the second platoon moves forward to capture the bridge, your platoon now works to link up with the other platoons aft. Vader has boarded, and headed for the bridge, giving orders to his own team to check the computers.

Now Vader changes the orders. He knows there are passengers, and he wants them alive.

While your men have been clearing the ship, they have been doing it by looking in, seeing if they are fired upon, and if they are, killing the person shooting at them. Now you have to search every place that a person could hide, from that locker in the compartment to the cargo bays. This is time consuming and dangerous. It is hide and seek with a homicidal maniac. You may have Rebel rats aboard, but they might decide to die with their teeth in your throat...


'To argue with those who have renounced the use and authority of reason is as futile as to administer medicine to the dead.' Now who said that?

From the one who brought you;
What we die for...
Acceptance
KOTOR excerpts
Star Wars: The Beginning
Star Wars: Republic Dawn
Return From Exile
machievelli is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-03-2006, 10:03 AM   #12
Jae Onasi
Antiquis temporibus, nati tibi similes in rupibus ventosissimis exponebantur ad necem
 
Jae Onasi's Avatar
 
Status: Super Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 10,912
Current Game: Guild Wars 2, VtMB, TOR
Alderaan News Holopics contributor Helpful! LucasCast staff Veteran Fan Fic Author 
Thanks Mach.

Chatting with hubby last night, I asked "Honey, do you think a ship should fly with the turning winds of a tornado or against it?" I had my ideas, but wanted to see if he agreed with my science thoughts.
He answered with great emphasis, "I wouldn't be flying anywhere near a tornado to begin with!"
So much for that question.


From MST3K's spoof of "Hercules Unchained"--heard as Roman medic soldiers carry off an unconscious Greek Hercules on a 1950's Army green canvas stretcher: "Hi, we're IX-I-I. Did somebody dial IX-I-I?"

Read The Adventures of Jolee Bindo and see the amazing Peep Surgery
Story WIP: The Dragonfighters
My blog: Confessions of a Geeky Mom--Latest post: Security Alerts!
Love Star Trek AND gaming? Check out Lotus Fleet.

Jae Onasi is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-03-2006, 02:22 PM   #13
machievelli
Local curmudgeon
 
machievelli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Las Vegas Nevada
Posts: 2,830
Current Game: Dungeonseige series
Hot Topic Starter Veteran Fan Fic Author Helpful! Forum Veteran 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jae Onasi
Thanks Mach.

Chatting with hubby last night, I asked "Honey, do you think a ship should fly with the turning winds of a tornado or against it?" I had my ideas, but wanted to see if he agreed with my science thoughts.
He answered with great emphasis, "I wouldn't be flying anywhere near a tornado to begin with!"
So much for that question.
I know the feeling. My wife is constantly saying that I have conversations about people and she has to ask me if they are 'real' or characters. My mother used to say the same thing, so maybe it's true.

As for the question you asked him, it would probably depend on the structural strength of the ship. Simple aerodynamics suggests flying with them if you want to speed up. and through if you do not.


'To argue with those who have renounced the use and authority of reason is as futile as to administer medicine to the dead.' Now who said that?

From the one who brought you;
What we die for...
Acceptance
KOTOR excerpts
Star Wars: The Beginning
Star Wars: Republic Dawn
Return From Exile
machievelli is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-03-2006, 04:06 PM   #14
Jae Onasi
Antiquis temporibus, nati tibi similes in rupibus ventosissimis exponebantur ad necem
 
Jae Onasi's Avatar
 
Status: Super Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 10,912
Current Game: Guild Wars 2, VtMB, TOR
Alderaan News Holopics contributor Helpful! LucasCast staff Veteran Fan Fic Author 
^

I wouldn't want to fly through an F5 tornado. Probably could do F0-2 if you have something as strong as what the Hurricane hunters fly and it's over water (and theoretically relatively free of debris), but I wouldn't bet on anything surviving 300+ mph winds and the debris that's flying with it.
When I double checked my info, I remembered that tornadoes are rotating updrafts and not downdrafts, and since I decided to get the ship up into the stratosphere out of the storm entirely, I went with for speed and height.


From MST3K's spoof of "Hercules Unchained"--heard as Roman medic soldiers carry off an unconscious Greek Hercules on a 1950's Army green canvas stretcher: "Hi, we're IX-I-I. Did somebody dial IX-I-I?"

Read The Adventures of Jolee Bindo and see the amazing Peep Surgery
Story WIP: The Dragonfighters
My blog: Confessions of a Geeky Mom--Latest post: Security Alerts!
Love Star Trek AND gaming? Check out Lotus Fleet.

Jae Onasi is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-03-2006, 05:51 PM   #15
The Source
Rest In Peace
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,304
Contest winner - Modding 
About six months ago, I had set out to write for another franchise. So, I did this mess of research, and found a list of illogical rules.

Example of rules if you write professionally:
1. You must stick to cannon. (Very Important Rule. I like it.)
2. You cannot make your own characters. (Very Bad Rule.)
3. You can only write stories based upon established characters and storyline. (Horrible Idea.)
4. You must be familiar with the franchises characters, species, etc... (I can live with that.)
5. You have to have an agent. (Bad Rule.)
6. You must submit a two chapter draft, so we can determine if you are what we need.

There were at least twenty more illogical rules, which just drove me and a few others away from writting.

If you want to get an expert opinion on how to use certain lingo, this thread sounds like a cool idea. But, try not to limit the creative imagination. As long as a writter keeps their story logical, I can see no harm in a artistic liscense.



R.I.P. to 'The Source' and 'MacCorp'
2004-2008
The Source is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-03-2006, 09:34 PM   #16
Jae Onasi
Antiquis temporibus, nati tibi similes in rupibus ventosissimis exponebantur ad necem
 
Jae Onasi's Avatar
 
Status: Super Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 10,912
Current Game: Guild Wars 2, VtMB, TOR
Alderaan News Holopics contributor Helpful! LucasCast staff Veteran Fan Fic Author 
I have no problem with creative license, and I feel free to use it, e.g. putting my character in a dress instead of Jedi robes, or inventing a medicine name (Carbasorb--meant to absorb excess blood carbon dioxide. Except I found out that's a real thing--a filter, of all things, so now I have to change my med name. ).

However, it's nice to have some realism in certain situations, like when I describe medical emergencies for instance--I want that to sound as 'medical' as possible, and the only way to do that is use real med jargon, which sounds better than medbabble.

That is what this thread is for--to help provide technical knowledge so that we don't make up something that just sounds totally ridiculous. However, I'm all for creativity, too.


From MST3K's spoof of "Hercules Unchained"--heard as Roman medic soldiers carry off an unconscious Greek Hercules on a 1950's Army green canvas stretcher: "Hi, we're IX-I-I. Did somebody dial IX-I-I?"

Read The Adventures of Jolee Bindo and see the amazing Peep Surgery
Story WIP: The Dragonfighters
My blog: Confessions of a Geeky Mom--Latest post: Security Alerts!
Love Star Trek AND gaming? Check out Lotus Fleet.

Jae Onasi is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-03-2006, 10:50 PM   #17
machievelli
Local curmudgeon
 
machievelli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Las Vegas Nevada
Posts: 2,830
Current Game: Dungeonseige series
Hot Topic Starter Veteran Fan Fic Author Helpful! Forum Veteran 
Does anyone want to have proper nomenclature organization and maneuvering for snub fighters?


'To argue with those who have renounced the use and authority of reason is as futile as to administer medicine to the dead.' Now who said that?

From the one who brought you;
What we die for...
Acceptance
KOTOR excerpts
Star Wars: The Beginning
Star Wars: Republic Dawn
Return From Exile
machievelli is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-03-2006, 11:28 PM   #18
Jae Onasi
Antiquis temporibus, nati tibi similes in rupibus ventosissimis exponebantur ad necem
 
Jae Onasi's Avatar
 
Status: Super Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 10,912
Current Game: Guild Wars 2, VtMB, TOR
Alderaan News Holopics contributor Helpful! LucasCast staff Veteran Fan Fic Author 
Sure, and radio communication in flight emergencies if anyone's got that handy. I'm plowing through FAA stuff, but I'm in the mood to write instead of research right now. OTOH, when I go on my flight this Fri, if I hear anything out of the cockpit (doubtful now with new rules post 9/11, I now might have a passing understanding.


From MST3K's spoof of "Hercules Unchained"--heard as Roman medic soldiers carry off an unconscious Greek Hercules on a 1950's Army green canvas stretcher: "Hi, we're IX-I-I. Did somebody dial IX-I-I?"

Read The Adventures of Jolee Bindo and see the amazing Peep Surgery
Story WIP: The Dragonfighters
My blog: Confessions of a Geeky Mom--Latest post: Security Alerts!
Love Star Trek AND gaming? Check out Lotus Fleet.

Jae Onasi is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-04-2006, 12:03 AM   #19
RaV™
I Came I Saw I Conquered
 
RaV™'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: On Top Of The World Baby
Posts: 1,490
Is anyone a researcher? I need a little bit more info on the earliest race of Mandalorians. The Taungs, I can only find information on Wiki and that just isn't good enough.


http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/6469/ssigvv2.gif
Changed pic to link. Please find a sig pic that is in line with our sig rules, 500X120 and 80kb max, Forum Rules. ~ SWK Staff
RaV™ is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-04-2006, 12:21 AM   #20
Jae Onasi
Antiquis temporibus, nati tibi similes in rupibus ventosissimis exponebantur ad necem
 
Jae Onasi's Avatar
 
Status: Super Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 10,912
Current Game: Guild Wars 2, VtMB, TOR
Alderaan News Holopics contributor Helpful! LucasCast staff Veteran Fan Fic Author 
From the New Essential Chronology:
"Coruscant's humans may have come into dominance on their homeworld by defeating a near-human, gray-skinned species known as the Taungs in several series of legendary battles. The humans, who comprised the thirteen nations of the Battalions of Zhell, suffered an almost extinction-level defeat when a sudden volcanic eruption smothered their encampment. The towering plume of black ash loomed over the Taung army for two years, and the awed Taungs too the name Warriors of the Shadow--or in the ancient tongue, Dha Werda Verda. The Battalions of Zhell recovered and claimed Coruscant for tehir own, while the Taungs may have become the Mandalorians, judging from what we have learned concerning similarities between the Mandalorian language and surviving Taung texts. (p. 2)
and
Apart from the Republic, galactic colonization occurred among the Taung exiles, who settled a world that they named Mandalore, in honor of their leader Mandalore the First. (p.6)

Probably is more elsewhere, too, but I don't have other books to look up at the moment. Hope that's a little help, anyway.


From MST3K's spoof of "Hercules Unchained"--heard as Roman medic soldiers carry off an unconscious Greek Hercules on a 1950's Army green canvas stretcher: "Hi, we're IX-I-I. Did somebody dial IX-I-I?"

Read The Adventures of Jolee Bindo and see the amazing Peep Surgery
Story WIP: The Dragonfighters
My blog: Confessions of a Geeky Mom--Latest post: Security Alerts!
Love Star Trek AND gaming? Check out Lotus Fleet.

Jae Onasi is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-04-2006, 12:59 AM   #21
RaV™
I Came I Saw I Conquered
 
RaV™'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: On Top Of The World Baby
Posts: 1,490
That's nice of you I appreciate it.


http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/6469/ssigvv2.gif
Changed pic to link. Please find a sig pic that is in line with our sig rules, 500X120 and 80kb max, Forum Rules. ~ SWK Staff
RaV™ is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-04-2006, 02:07 AM   #22
machievelli
Local curmudgeon
 
machievelli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Las Vegas Nevada
Posts: 2,830
Current Game: Dungeonseige series
Hot Topic Starter Veteran Fan Fic Author Helpful! Forum Veteran 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jae Onasi
Sure, and radio communication in flight emergencies if anyone's got that handy. I'm plowing through FAA stuff, but I'm in the mood to write instead of research right now. OTOH, when I go on my flight this Fri, if I hear anything out of the cockpit (doubtful now with new rules post 9/11, I now might have a passing understanding.

How about an emergency of a military nature? Say a fighter coming in badly shot up, or escorting a freighter being checked over before landing?


'To argue with those who have renounced the use and authority of reason is as futile as to administer medicine to the dead.' Now who said that?

From the one who brought you;
What we die for...
Acceptance
KOTOR excerpts
Star Wars: The Beginning
Star Wars: Republic Dawn
Return From Exile
machievelli is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-04-2006, 02:20 AM   #23
Sabretooth
鬼龍院皐月
 
Sabretooth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 9,364
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacLeodCorp
1. You must stick to cannon. (Very Important Rule. I like it.)
Nope, you need to stick to canon and not cannon. We have enough heads rolling by now...


Sabretooth is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-04-2006, 10:55 AM   #24
Jae Onasi
Antiquis temporibus, nati tibi similes in rupibus ventosissimis exponebantur ad necem
 
Jae Onasi's Avatar
 
Status: Super Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 10,912
Current Game: Guild Wars 2, VtMB, TOR
Alderaan News Holopics contributor Helpful! LucasCast staff Veteran Fan Fic Author 
Quote:
Originally Posted by machievelli
How about an emergency of a military nature? Say a fighter coming in badly shot up, or escorting a freighter being checked over before landing?
I was looking more for cockpit/tower chatter examples, but I wouldn't mind hearing about this, too, being the education junkie that I am.


From MST3K's spoof of "Hercules Unchained"--heard as Roman medic soldiers carry off an unconscious Greek Hercules on a 1950's Army green canvas stretcher: "Hi, we're IX-I-I. Did somebody dial IX-I-I?"

Read The Adventures of Jolee Bindo and see the amazing Peep Surgery
Story WIP: The Dragonfighters
My blog: Confessions of a Geeky Mom--Latest post: Security Alerts!
Love Star Trek AND gaming? Check out Lotus Fleet.

Jae Onasi is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-04-2006, 01:18 PM   #25
machievelli
Local curmudgeon
 
machievelli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Las Vegas Nevada
Posts: 2,830
Current Game: Dungeonseige series
Hot Topic Starter Veteran Fan Fic Author Helpful! Forum Veteran 
Off We Go...

The Snub Fighters

The following is standard to all air forces (There are variations between Air Force and Naval Air forces which will be pointed out as we go), and can be used for any fighter combat you decide to write.

The Largest Formation of aircraft you will see in real life is the Air Force. The United States has one assigned to every place we consider important. It is composed of several Wings of aircraft, and has attached training, and transport aircraft. The largest Air Force during WWII had over 4,000 aircraft assigned to it. It is usually commanded by a Major General (Two Stars). We have seen nothing on this level of organization in the movies, so we will leave it at that.

The next size down is the Wing. A Wing is approximately 72 aircraft, broken into three Squadrons of 24 aircraft each, all of the same type. By type here I mean fighter-bomber, etc. There can be wide variations in what they might have, since as Star Wars A New Hope and Return of the Jedi showed, you can have a variety of aircraft all flying under one command at the same time. In numbers a Wing is approximately 4500 men, half of which are maintenance. Of these, only about a hundred are actual pilots. The bulk of the remainder headquarters, intelligence, armorers, etc. A wing is commanded by a Brigadier General.

The primary difference between an air force unit and a naval unit in this regard is that an Aircraft Carrier has to do all of the jobs that several different wings would be assigned to. Bombing, reconnaissance, cargo transport, protection from submarines, search and rescue etc. Using Combat Fleets of the World you can see that A Nimitz class Carrier carries 90 Aircraft. 48 of them on a carrier are Fighters in four squadrons (As the navy calls 12 aircraft instead of 24) 24 ground attack and antisubmarine aircraft 4 reconnaissance and EW (Electronic Warfare) aircraft, 3 AEW (Airborne Early Warning) and about 11 helicopters. This is by no means standard. Thanks to using F/A 18 Hornets that are designed both as attack and interceptors, those 24 ground attack aircraft can be used for other purposes, or be replaced by other designs. Aboard a ship this is called the Combat Air Wing today. It used to be called the Combat Air Group, which explains the slang for the commander of all those men, the CAG.

A Squadron as mentioned above is 24 aircraft each in an air force, while as I said, a naval unit is 12. Since most of what we got to see in the movies was in a naval context, from here on, I will merely address that aspect. The aircraft would have about 1.25% crews, meaning for every man you need, you have one additional pilot per craft. A Naval Squadron has 12 planes, and 16 pilots. A Commander commands squadrons in the Navy.

Squadrons are broken down on operations into Flights. The US and a number of our allies (Japan, Germany, and Italy) have flights of 4 aircraft, while others have flights of 6. There is a reason for this, and that is because the primary combat unit of a fighter unit is not the larger units above, it is not even the plane by itself.

It is the Element. An element is either two or three fighters, and is composed of a flight lead and his wingman or wingmen. In the units above, you can easily see that both flights break down into two elements.

The one thing about the last battle in A New Hope that bothered me was that except for Vader’s team, no one paid a bit of attention to it. Even though it was proven as far back as WWI that survival in battle depends on it. When you’re coming onto the tail or ‘six’ of an enemy, you’re more interested in killing that plane, and a lot of pilots through the ages have died because while they were trying to kill him, someone else slipped up and killed them. A wingman’s job is to stick as tight to you as he can, and to watch for enemy craft coming up on your six. That leaves you free to take your shot.

The craft we saw in the movies even though called ‘fighter’ were usually none of the kind. The Tie fighter, Tie Interceptor and A Wings were, but the others were actually fighter-bombers. The difference is minor, since all it depends on weapons load out. Proton torpedoes are good against enemy ships, and primary long range attack against fighters. The Y Wing and Tie Bomber are merely bombers that have some utility as fighters themselves. As we saw with the Y wing vs. TIEs, the chances of survival depend on the pilot.

There is no actual ‘snub fighter carrier’ in the movies. Instead they went for what we would call ‘hybrid’ or ‘hermaphrodite’ carriers; warships designed to fight on their own, but carrying fighters as well. This I think is due to the fact that a carrier in battle here can’t get the standoff it needs to protect itself. The smallest ship that we can verify carries fighters is the Nebulon B Frigate, which carries 24. But considering the size of the Corellian Corvette Tantive IV, it would have been able to carry at least a dozen. If you wanted, you could also modify cargo vessels to carry them as Fighter barges. If you have pirates, this is what you would probably have them do. After all, the average commercial starship would surrender if faced with half a dozen or so fighters.

A fighter takes up a lot of cubage because of the expendable ordinance and required maintenance crews. The biggest drawback of such an arrangement is the necessity of fuel and storage for the fighters themselves. The missiles a fighter carries are smaller than shipboard missiles if they are still using them.

Maneuvers:

There are specific maneuvers used by everyone, and they determine what you can and cannot do. All of the things you see the Blue Angels and Thunderbirds do in their routines are really just basic combat maneuvers with colored smoke. I was bothered in The Phantom Menace with Young Anakin deciding to spin. In real life guys, they have a name for him. They call him a statistic. You will no doubt notice that even though I will try to describe what is happening, it may make little sense. You will notice in movies when a pilot is describing his actions, he will use his hands a lot. This is because he is recreating what he and his enemy did with something you can see. If need be, read the descriptions, and use your hands to go through them.

At least it’s better than the Colonel describing an attack and rearranging your coffee table and tea service.

LOOP. Easy, pull the stick back, complete a circle, and continue on. The idea with a loop is to try to get behind the man pursuing you.

IMMELMAN TURN. An Immelman is a half loop with a change of direction at the end. Begin the loop as before, but when you reach the apex, turn onto a new course. It is used when you are below an enemy and want to get on his tail fast. Or shake some guy following you loose. If you dive instead of climbing, this is called a split S.

THATCH WEAVE. The thatch weave was created as a defensive ploy by fighters. Two aircraft flying, the enemy moves to attack one. His wingman either turns, or if he is flight lead retards his throttle so he drops back, then turns to get on the enemy’s tail. This is now called the sandwich, in that by turning to draw the enemy out, you have created a lethal sandwich of defender, enemy, and attacker. If he tries to break (Explained later) you merely turn the same direction, and the two on your side change jobs as it were.

SPLIT. In a split both aircraft want to reverse course. One way is the inboard turnabout, where you turn toward each other, one circling out farther than the other, and are now facing the enemy. The other is to break in opposite directions, again turning to face the enemy. This can be done in any 3 dimensions such as one climbing while the other staying in level flight, one diving, both breaking up and down at the same time, etc.

BREAK. A sharp turn into the attacker, hoping to cause an overshoot. When you see planes jinking around trying to avoid being hit, that is a break. If the enemy does overshoot, meaning he is now ahead of you, you roll back into him, onto his six, and hunt him. It can also be used to disengage to break off the action.

ROLLING ATTACK, DISENGAGEMENT. If you are attacking and are faster, you roll your aircraft to eat up some of that difference, and hopefully stay on his tail. If they are on your six you do the same to generate an overshoot. If you succeed, again he is in front of you. In the defense, this is called a high G barrel roll.

SCISSORS. An enemy is tangling with you, but neither has an advantage in speed or maneuvering. One way to break this deadlock is to use a scissors. You turn into the enemy, maintaining your line of sight on the enemy. This will cause him to either break away, or break toward you. If he breaks away, follow. If he breaks toward you, you again turn into him. Keep this up until you have gotten behind him.

YOYO. You are behind an enemy, but are travelling too fast. You do the opposite of the above situation, turning away then back sharply. This slows you down, and gives you a chance to again get on his six. If you add a roll to it, it becomes what is known as a rollaway. Merely turn opposite to his turn, roll until you can see him again, and complete your roll and turn on his six.

LUFBERRY CIRCLE. A defensive formation which is little used since the end of WWII because someone finally found a way to break it. In a Lufberry circle the fighters form a circle where every aircraft has a supporting craft behind it. The way to break it is to fly into it from any angle blasting away and trying to break them out of the mutually defending circle. (Addenda 2007: Oddly enough, the circle came back into vogue during the Vietnam War, but for only two reasons; to sucker American fighters, and to kill bombers. In the Mid 1960s, the American Air Force reported that the Vietnamese had begun using what the US called the Wagon Wheel. American pilots were getting slaughtered going against it.

There is a reason this was occuring, and that was tactical doctrine. In the late 1950s and early 1960s, pundits had claimed that since modern fighters were so fast, they would no longer have dogfights. All battles would be at long range with missiles. In fact the French got upset when the Israelis bought the Mirage III, then demanded guns for them. After all, the plane is capable up to mach 2, right?

The Israelis were smarter than the French. When the F4 Phantom first debuted in Vietnam, it carried four sidewinder missiles, and for Sparrows. But to use the sidewinder (What is called a dogfight missile) the rule is;

get on the enemy six, hold position until the missile locks on, fire missile

So a lot of pilots died trying to use those missiles.

Oddly enough, the Israelis, with those guns they would never need, racked up the highest kill ration of any air force during the 1967 war. They killed 50 enemy fighters for every one they lost

The last two are relatively unique in that one requires gravity to work, and the other would work better without it.

HAMMERHEAD STALL. Used by the US Air Force for the first time during the Vietnam War, it is also called the vertical reverse or ballistic reverse. You climb steeply until your aircraft stalls. In a normal situation this is bad. Your plane falls like a leaf from a tree, and until you gain speed, you have as little control as that leaf. However this is what you want to do, because your craft is now a projectile and ballistics is your friend. If you do nothing the plane merely continues over into a dive, and you recover.

When your craft stalls here, you reverse your controls, turning the nose to point downward instead of up. An enemy on your tail now has you coming down like the hammer of the gods in his face.

COBRA. Actually called Rogachev’s Cobra after the Russian pilot who first showed it off at the Paris Air Show back in the 80s. It uses the fact that modern aircraft have what are called AOA or Angle of Attack limiters, stopping you from trying to point your nose too high and thus stalling. What Rogachev did was remove that fixture from his aircraft, retard his throttle to idle, and at the same time, rotated up past 90 degrees. The plane was still flying forward, in the case of when he revealed it at about 500 knots, but the nose was pointed upward at about 75 degrees behind him. It has little utility in real combat, except again to force an enemy to generate an overshoot.

However picture it in snub fighter combat. No gravity, no drag from the air. A TIE fighter on your six. You retard, rotate back 180 degrees instead. Suddenly he is facing your guns, and closing the range.

Talk about ruining his day...


'To argue with those who have renounced the use and authority of reason is as futile as to administer medicine to the dead.' Now who said that?

From the one who brought you;
What we die for...
Acceptance
KOTOR excerpts
Star Wars: The Beginning
Star Wars: Republic Dawn
Return From Exile

Last edited by machievelli; 08-21-2007 at 10:29 AM. Reason: addenda
machievelli is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-04-2006, 01:46 PM   #26
JediMaster12
Dum Spiramus Tuebimur
 
JediMaster12's Avatar
 
Status: Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Buried in books...literally
Posts: 5,933
Current Game: Assassin's Creed
LFN Staff Member Veteran Fan Fic Author Contest winner - Fan Fiction Forum Veteran 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jae Onasi
JM12--I wouldn't mind picking your brain on more Li'adin culture, even if some details aren't used in the story itself. I'd like to make it more 'real.'
What specifically are you looking for? What do you see them as? Are they more in tune with principles of nirvana or something?
I'd be glad to give a few pointers.

JediMaster12 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-04-2006, 03:22 PM   #27
Jae Onasi
Antiquis temporibus, nati tibi similes in rupibus ventosissimis exponebantur ad necem
 
Jae Onasi's Avatar
 
Status: Super Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 10,912
Current Game: Guild Wars 2, VtMB, TOR
Alderaan News Holopics contributor Helpful! LucasCast staff Veteran Fan Fic Author 
Building a culture--if this gets too involved, I'm more than happy to take it offlist if need be.
Here's what I have so far--
The planet Li'adin--rotates a little faster, maybe has a little more axial tilt, so the Coriolis forces are higher and their weather is a lot worse during parts of the year, and they can have massive but fast moving storms. Otherwise, it's temperate. They have a specific growing season that happens outside the stormy seasons. The weather strongly affects their architecture--they have to build structures to withstand the nasty weather. I may have to move them more below ground--don't know yet. The sun is bluer than average (just because I liked that idea, no other particular reason). The plant life is more blue-green than green (which I associated with the blue shift in the sun's visible light spectrum) and nearly black dirt, just because I didn't want to be creative with dirt color at the moment I was writing it.
The people--Li'adans. Humanoid race, yellowish skin (due to different wavelengths of sunlight there?), brown hair (maybe other colors too?, shorter and slightly more frail than 'normal' humans. They are exceptionally sensitive to changes in time. They don't like to leave their solar system (haven't decided why). They come in Singles, Duos, and Triads. They're born as singles. Haven't figured out how they reproduce because it wasn't salient for my story (and because I'm not a randy teenager thinking about that all the time ). They 'join' or become telepathically linked with another single at some point in life (I'm picturing young adult to adult) and become a Duo. Later in life, another single can be added to the mix to make a Triad, though that is not required. I suppose I could call it a Trio, but I liked how Triad sounded so I went with that. I thought that they might consider a Joining ceremony to be a big deal. Singles have names with a suffix 'a, Duos 'an, Triads 'ad. When they join, pieces of each of the individual's names are recombined into a new name. Maybe. Haven't figured that one out yet. When they talk, since they're linked mentally, the individuals can say parts of an entire sentence and tend to do so back and forth. The 'primary' or 'first' individual is the original Single, and the 'second' and 'third' are the individuals added to the group respectively. In social structure Triads generally outrank Duos who outrank Singles, but I'm thinking of it like a CEO outranks a VP who outranks a manager. All might be generally equal otherwise, but I haven't figured that one out. Only Unjoined can leave the planet. Don't know why, I just made it that way to advance the plot.
When they work, they work in concert. If you're a Triad, it's kind of like having 6 hands to be able to do more. Duos and Triads tend to stay grouped together but can be separated geographically. The grouping is more important than the individuals within the group. Going too far into adulthood before Joining leads to mental instability. They have some way of determining who should join with whom. Breaking the link, or becoming Unjoined back into a Single, can be mentally devastating and many don't survive (and I might have unintentionally taken too much of that from Anne McCaffrey's Dragonriders series, since now that I write it out it sounds a lot like what happens when a dragon dies). I haven't figured out what happens if one of the individuals in a group gets sick or injured badly enough to die--do they re-Join with another Single to prevent the mental problems?
Homes and transports would be designed with more seats, larger, and more rooms to accommodate the larger groupings. Yes, the individuals all have their own rooms. The groups don't all pile in bed with each other. I'm not into exploring the social issues of polygamy/polyandry/etc. This is something my young son reads, after all.
I haven't figured out their likes/dislikes/forms of entertainment/dinner plans/fears/joys/etc. The only thing I thought of was that since the weather is so bad a lot, they like to go outside when they can, but they don't stray far from safe cover.

How's that for grist for your mill?


From MST3K's spoof of "Hercules Unchained"--heard as Roman medic soldiers carry off an unconscious Greek Hercules on a 1950's Army green canvas stretcher: "Hi, we're IX-I-I. Did somebody dial IX-I-I?"

Read The Adventures of Jolee Bindo and see the amazing Peep Surgery
Story WIP: The Dragonfighters
My blog: Confessions of a Geeky Mom--Latest post: Security Alerts!
Love Star Trek AND gaming? Check out Lotus Fleet.

Jae Onasi is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-04-2006, 03:50 PM   #28
JediMaster12
Dum Spiramus Tuebimur
 
JediMaster12's Avatar
 
Status: Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Buried in books...literally
Posts: 5,933
Current Game: Assassin's Creed
LFN Staff Member Veteran Fan Fic Author Contest winner - Fan Fiction Forum Veteran 
Sensitive to changes in time and yet they are linked as adults mentally. It sounds like you are stepping into the realms of magic.

Three is actually one of the powerful numbers to witches. 3,5 and the most powerful is 7. The number five is more common do to the sacred feminine factor in that five is often associated with all things feminine. The pentacle star for one. The human body makes it, the lengths of the sides have the divine proportion (Golden Ratio) and the planet Venus makes a pentacle star every eight years. In fact the Olypmic games were arranged around Venus's orbit.

The Joining ceremony is the passage into adulthood. A good example is a bar mitzvah, where the boy at the age 13 becomes a man in the eyes of Jewish law called Talmud. There are other kinds of ceremony for passage. Native American groups go on the vision quest which helps to determine their place in the tribe whether as a healer, a warrior and is often seen as an animal since animals are said to possess magical qualities. Native Americans traditonally tell of how things came to be through stories passed on in oral traditon. An example would be the Apache way in which they say "This is what my grandparents told me to be true..." It gives validity to the story.

I don't know much about dragons except that in Chinese folklore, they were highly considered and respected. They were even said to bring good luck. Only the Emperor of China could have the dragon on the Imperial crest and his colr was red another symbol for luck. Heck even crickets are considered good luck.

The part about only the Unjoined can leave the planet sounds a bit like the Melodies in EU. The Melodies are from Yavin system and the adults live in the deep crystal waters in the caves. The children are the only ones who can live on land seeing as they look like humans. When they become twenty years old, they undergo the changing ceremony in a shallow pool of algae where their legs are fused together into a tail and they develop gills and webbed hands. It is a specific time of the year and the time when the purella like to try and catch a Melodie.

Hope that helps a bit.

JediMaster12 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-04-2006, 06:08 PM   #29
Jae Onasi
Antiquis temporibus, nati tibi similes in rupibus ventosissimis exponebantur ad necem
 
Jae Onasi's Avatar
 
Status: Super Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 10,912
Current Game: Guild Wars 2, VtMB, TOR
Alderaan News Holopics contributor Helpful! LucasCast staff Veteran Fan Fic Author 
Any references to magic were unintentional, since I know almost nothing about witchcraft. Three and seven are also important numbers in Christianity, three signifying unity and seven signifying completion. I mainly stopped at 3 because I didn't want to make it any more complex than it was starting to be.
A vision quest could be an interesting aspect of Joining, though I have to admit the only time I've seen that was on an episode of Walker, Texas Ranger one time.
Haven't read about the Melodies, though that might be interesting to look at.
Thanks!


From MST3K's spoof of "Hercules Unchained"--heard as Roman medic soldiers carry off an unconscious Greek Hercules on a 1950's Army green canvas stretcher: "Hi, we're IX-I-I. Did somebody dial IX-I-I?"

Read The Adventures of Jolee Bindo and see the amazing Peep Surgery
Story WIP: The Dragonfighters
My blog: Confessions of a Geeky Mom--Latest post: Security Alerts!
Love Star Trek AND gaming? Check out Lotus Fleet.

Jae Onasi is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-04-2006, 08:07 PM   #30
machievelli
Local curmudgeon
 
machievelli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Las Vegas Nevada
Posts: 2,830
Current Game: Dungeonseige series
Hot Topic Starter Veteran Fan Fic Author Helpful! Forum Veteran 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jae Onasi
Any references to magic were unintentional, since I know almost nothing about witchcraft. Three and seven are also important numbers in Christianity, three signifying unity and seven signifying completion. I mainly stopped at 3 because I didn't want to make it any more complex than it was starting to be.
A vision quest could be an interesting aspect of Joining, though I have to admit the only time I've seen that was on an episode of Walker, Texas Ranger one time.
Haven't read about the Melodies, though that might be interesting to look at.
Thanks!

If anyone is interested i have been a member of the Druidic Craft of the wise, a Wiccan organization for over 20 years.

As for 'magic', those who have read my KOTOR stuff would know that all Echani are empathic, and they bond with others. The way I got around this for Jedi or say soldiers, was to say they bonded to the ideals of the order or service.


'To argue with those who have renounced the use and authority of reason is as futile as to administer medicine to the dead.' Now who said that?

From the one who brought you;
What we die for...
Acceptance
KOTOR excerpts
Star Wars: The Beginning
Star Wars: Republic Dawn
Return From Exile
machievelli is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-05-2006, 12:20 AM   #31
JediMaster12
Dum Spiramus Tuebimur
 
JediMaster12's Avatar
 
Status: Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Buried in books...literally
Posts: 5,933
Current Game: Assassin's Creed
LFN Staff Member Veteran Fan Fic Author Contest winner - Fan Fiction Forum Veteran 
@ Jae: I know the number three is in reference to the Holy Trinity in Christianity and seven was as you said completion. Harry Potter also mentions the use of the number seven. In many cultures, numbers play a significant role in determining fate and the like such whether or not to go to war. The Golden Ratio is known as 1.618 and ties in with Fabonacci sequence. It is called the divine proportion for a reason. It is prevalent in all living things and scientist/mathematicians thought it to be the number of heaven.
On another note Jae, many things in the modern world are based in magic probably the exception being science. It is known as transmutation. Many symbols have been passed through the centuries and used by other cultures. An example is the Madonna and Child. The same image is depicted in images of Isis nursing Horus. Christmas and Easter were originally pagan holidays until Constatine used Christian events in place of the pagan holidays. Pagan comes from the Latin root meaning countryside. Another symbol is the triquetra, the symbol from Charmed. A Celtic symbol, Christian missionaries used the same symbol to stand for the Holy Trinity. The little almond shape is seen in the image of the Jesus fish and in pagan traditon meant fertility.

As far as religion and culture goes, outside influences have an impact as well. I'll use the Aztecs since that is my niche. They believe in thise fatalistic universe and that everything is a result of fate. In fact they predicted that the age we live in, the Fifth Sun, will end (translation) in a huge earthquake and the celestial monsters will come out of the ground and devour everyone and all will disappear. Most of their mythology has ties to environment. Tenochititlan (Mexico City) is located in the Basin of Mexico, an area ringed by mountains and volcanoes. Earthquakes are frequent. The creation story tells of four previous ages, each destroyed by natural disaster. One is where the volcanoes erupted and the people of that age turned to dogs and turkeys. The famous Aztec calendar actually tells the story of the the Five Suns with Tonatiuh, the god of the Fifth Sun, in the center and the symbols for the animals the people of the previous ages turned into. The border shows the twenty name days in the calendar round.
The calendar round is cyclical and extremely fatalistic. There are two calendars, one 365 day solar calendar and a 260 day lunar calendar. A complete calendar round tokk 52 years. Near the end of the 52 years was a time of uncertainty as the gods could revoke their favor. Different calander days had particular sacrifices to accompany it. Sacrifices were public events that included music and dancing. It was considered the best form of honor to die as a sacrifice than in battle as it was said that you would get to return as a hummingbird to enjoy the sweet nectars of the Earth. The calandar round was followed by all Mesoamerican cultures. The Classic Mayan developed the Long Count. Based on their calendar, this age is set to end December of 2013. If I were you, I'd get my affairs in order

JediMaster12 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-05-2006, 01:38 PM   #32
The Source
Rest In Peace
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,304
Contest winner - Modding 
Quote:
Originally Posted by machievelli
How about an emergency of a military nature? Say a fighter coming in badly shot up, or escorting a freighter being checked over before landing?
Bogie:
The term bogie, also spelled bogey, refers to a false blip on a radar display. The term is also used to describe radar echoes that occur for unknown reasons, especially in the military, where such a signal might indicate hostile aircraft. There are two types of bogie: those that occur because of some real but unidentified or irrelevant object (called "real bogies" for the purpose of this discussion), and those that occur as a result of no concrete external object ("imaginary bogies").

A "real bogie" can be caused by an aircraft, a missile, a flock of birds, a tall ground-based metal structure, a balloon with a large payload or a radar-reflective coating, or (perhaps) an extraterrestrial spacecraft. Thunderstorms produce radar echoes, as do concentrated weather phenomena such as tornadoes. Meteors passing through the atmosphere create trails of ionized gas that can return radar signals. In the military, "real bogies" are sometimes produced by dropping myriad scraps of metal foil from high-flying aircraft, producing diffuse echoes that blind enemy radar over large regions.



R.I.P. to 'The Source' and 'MacCorp'
2004-2008
The Source is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-06-2006, 01:14 PM   #33
machievelli
Local curmudgeon
 
machievelli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Las Vegas Nevada
Posts: 2,830
Current Game: Dungeonseige series
Hot Topic Starter Veteran Fan Fic Author Helpful! Forum Veteran 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacLeodCorp
Bogie:
The term bogie, also spelled bogey, refers to a false blip on a radar display. The term is also used to describe radar echoes that occur for unknown reasons, especially in the military, where such a signal might indicate hostile aircraft. There are two types of bogie: those that occur because of some real but unidentified or irrelevant object (called "real bogies" for the purpose of this discussion), and those that occur as a result of no concrete external object ("imaginary bogies").

A "real bogie" can be caused by an aircraft, a missile, a flock of birds, a tall ground-based metal structure, a balloon with a large payload or a radar-reflective coating, or (perhaps) an extraterrestrial spacecraft. Thunderstorms produce radar echoes, as do concentrated weather phenomena such as tornadoes. Meteors passing through the atmosphere create trails of ionized gas that can return radar signals. In the military, "real bogies" are sometimes produced by dropping myriad scraps of metal foil from high-flying aircraft, producing diffuse echoes that blind enemy radar over large regions.
You forgot Helium balloons which because Helium is as metallic gas, reads as solid. The Song 99 red balloons (English title, German is Luftballoons) is based on the idea that WWIII starts because both sides pick up the balloons and assumes they are aircraft.

Back in the 60s, one thing they discovered was that some frequencies of radar (The ones used most commonly now) penetrate the atmosphere. In 1962 right after the Cuban missile crisis, NORAD reported a massive launch from Russia, but coming the wrong direction. It seemed to be from east to west, which made sense only if they were attacking Europe. While everyone was going on alert, an astute radar man checked an ephemeris then reported that the 'launch' was actually the moon. After that, they installed what is called a range gate, a software fix that tells the set 'if it is beyond X range, ignore it'.


'To argue with those who have renounced the use and authority of reason is as futile as to administer medicine to the dead.' Now who said that?

From the one who brought you;
What we die for...
Acceptance
KOTOR excerpts
Star Wars: The Beginning
Star Wars: Republic Dawn
Return From Exile

Last edited by machievelli; 05-06-2006 at 01:16 PM. Reason: typos
machievelli is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-08-2006, 04:14 AM   #34
Jae Onasi
Antiquis temporibus, nati tibi similes in rupibus ventosissimis exponebantur ad necem
 
Jae Onasi's Avatar
 
Status: Super Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 10,912
Current Game: Guild Wars 2, VtMB, TOR
Alderaan News Holopics contributor Helpful! LucasCast staff Veteran Fan Fic Author 
Jae, being the retentive science type, is pointing out that helium does not fall on the metallic side of periodic table of elements. It is a noble gas and non-metallic.
Nevertheless, there is undoubtedly a good explanation for the radar signature--perhaps something metallic incorporated into the balloon itself rather than the gas filling the balloon?


From MST3K's spoof of "Hercules Unchained"--heard as Roman medic soldiers carry off an unconscious Greek Hercules on a 1950's Army green canvas stretcher: "Hi, we're IX-I-I. Did somebody dial IX-I-I?"

Read The Adventures of Jolee Bindo and see the amazing Peep Surgery
Story WIP: The Dragonfighters
My blog: Confessions of a Geeky Mom--Latest post: Security Alerts!
Love Star Trek AND gaming? Check out Lotus Fleet.

Jae Onasi is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-08-2006, 12:34 PM   #35
machievelli
Local curmudgeon
 
machievelli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Las Vegas Nevada
Posts: 2,830
Current Game: Dungeonseige series
Hot Topic Starter Veteran Fan Fic Author Helpful! Forum Veteran 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jae Onasi
Jae, being the retentive science type, is pointing out that helium does not fall on the metallic side of periodic table of elements. It is a noble gas and non-metallic.
Nevertheless, there is undoubtedly a good explanation for the radar signature--perhaps something metallic incorporated into the balloon itself rather than the gas filling the balloon?
I do know that helium registers on a radar screen, which is why I called it metallic. I know this because when I was in the Coast Guard way back when, we had to launch an average of five balloons a day to take weather readings. The package was about the size of a sandwich, and when I asked a radar operator why we had such a clear return off such a small object, that was the answer he gave me.


'To argue with those who have renounced the use and authority of reason is as futile as to administer medicine to the dead.' Now who said that?

From the one who brought you;
What we die for...
Acceptance
KOTOR excerpts
Star Wars: The Beginning
Star Wars: Republic Dawn
Return From Exile
machievelli is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-09-2006, 09:54 AM   #36
Jae Onasi
Antiquis temporibus, nati tibi similes in rupibus ventosissimis exponebantur ad necem
 
Jae Onasi's Avatar
 
Status: Super Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 10,912
Current Game: Guild Wars 2, VtMB, TOR
Alderaan News Holopics contributor Helpful! LucasCast staff Veteran Fan Fic Author 
I've been away at a conference for nearly 5 days--yesterday/night before was the first time I was able to get online, and that was only for a relatively short time, so I didn't get the chance to do much more than say hey, it's not a metal. Why it registers I don't know (yet, because of course now I have to find out the answer for my own curiosity). I caught some kind of bug during my travels (ugh) so I was too tired to do that last night. I should have some time today to meander around the internet. Here's a link for the periodic table of elements. They have a list of metals and non-metals.

http://www.chemicalelements.com/

I don't disbelieve you, btw--I'm sure it registers, I just don't know why.


From MST3K's spoof of "Hercules Unchained"--heard as Roman medic soldiers carry off an unconscious Greek Hercules on a 1950's Army green canvas stretcher: "Hi, we're IX-I-I. Did somebody dial IX-I-I?"

Read The Adventures of Jolee Bindo and see the amazing Peep Surgery
Story WIP: The Dragonfighters
My blog: Confessions of a Geeky Mom--Latest post: Security Alerts!
Love Star Trek AND gaming? Check out Lotus Fleet.

Jae Onasi is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-09-2006, 09:57 AM   #37
machievelli
Local curmudgeon
 
machievelli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Las Vegas Nevada
Posts: 2,830
Current Game: Dungeonseige series
Hot Topic Starter Veteran Fan Fic Author Helpful! Forum Veteran 
A question for those who have a copy of KOTOR II. Beyond Master Vandar, who survived the attack on Dantooine?


'To argue with those who have renounced the use and authority of reason is as futile as to administer medicine to the dead.' Now who said that?

From the one who brought you;
What we die for...
Acceptance
KOTOR excerpts
Star Wars: The Beginning
Star Wars: Republic Dawn
Return From Exile
machievelli is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-09-2006, 11:32 AM   #38
Jae Onasi
Antiquis temporibus, nati tibi similes in rupibus ventosissimis exponebantur ad necem
 
Jae Onasi's Avatar
 
Status: Super Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 10,912
Current Game: Guild Wars 2, VtMB, TOR
Alderaan News Holopics contributor Helpful! LucasCast staff Veteran Fan Fic Author 
Vrook, since he's in the game at Khoonda. Bastila and Revan survive. Jolee is not mentioned at all other than in very brief references twice, and those don't say either way. I believe Zhar and Dorak are killed--if not there then on Miraluka when it's attacked by Nihilis, but I'd have to go look that up in some dialog files. Come to think of it, Vandar might have been killed on Miraluka, too. I'll check that one out some time later.


From MST3K's spoof of "Hercules Unchained"--heard as Roman medic soldiers carry off an unconscious Greek Hercules on a 1950's Army green canvas stretcher: "Hi, we're IX-I-I. Did somebody dial IX-I-I?"

Read The Adventures of Jolee Bindo and see the amazing Peep Surgery
Story WIP: The Dragonfighters
My blog: Confessions of a Geeky Mom--Latest post: Security Alerts!
Love Star Trek AND gaming? Check out Lotus Fleet.

Jae Onasi is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-09-2006, 11:42 AM   #39
machievelli
Local curmudgeon
 
machievelli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Las Vegas Nevada
Posts: 2,830
Current Game: Dungeonseige series
Hot Topic Starter Veteran Fan Fic Author Helpful! Forum Veteran 
Just checking. In my KOTOR novel I had killed off Vrook. Have to change it...


'To argue with those who have renounced the use and authority of reason is as futile as to administer medicine to the dead.' Now who said that?

From the one who brought you;
What we die for...
Acceptance
KOTOR excerpts
Star Wars: The Beginning
Star Wars: Republic Dawn
Return From Exile
machievelli is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 05-09-2006, 01:03 PM   #40
machievelli
Local curmudgeon
 
machievelli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Las Vegas Nevada
Posts: 2,830
Current Game: Dungeonseige series
Hot Topic Starter Veteran Fan Fic Author Helpful! Forum Veteran 
In about a week we've had almost 300 hits on this thread. We must be doing something right. As the resident military man, I think we should explore another aspect of war, specifically merchant raiders pirates and armed merchant ships.

The history of armed merchantmen is long because until recently (The last three centuries or so) most countries honestly could not afford massive navies. Warships are expensive.

About 300 years ago most navies were merely small formations. The two largest navies in the world in 1700 were France and England in opposite order of size. The British Navy was only about 80 warships, the French about 70. An arms race not unlike our own cold war era had begun. But if you look at the entire world, and the area both nations were trying to protect, this is miniscule. Some places wer protected not by actual naval vessels, but armed merchantmen of the different chartered companies.

Sound familiar?

The British East India Company, also nicknamed 'John Company' included not only warships, but actual official army formations. The Indian Subcontinent was conquered not by the British 'Army', but by Company troops.

Most nations got around this in wartime by issuing what are called 'Letters or Marque and Reprisal'. A letter of Marque is an official document which states that the captain of the named vessel is acting as an auxiliary unit of a Nation's navy, with all of the rights that navy can demand.

A standard letter is published in a book entitled Mercenaries By Michael Lee Lanning. The important parts are excepted below;

"...to subdue, seize or take any armed or unarmed vessels of the British Empire... And also to retake any vessel, goods or effects of the people of the United States... This commission to contiune in force during the pleasure of the President of the United States for the time being."

In other words, this is a license to steal, pure and simple.

Why bother?

Because without such a document, you are a pirate. Piracy is almost as old as nautical travel itself, and the punishment has always been harsh. Hanging.

Captain Kidd, a famed pirate of the 18th century began with a British letter of Marque. But when one of his captains attacked an English vessel, he was labeled a pirate, and hung when captured.

Arming a merchant of that time was easy. Just buy the guns, cut out parts of the rail, deploy them, and voila!

The nations of our own world decided to stop it, and in 1856, the Paris treaty forbade issuing letters of marque and in fact arming merchant vessels unless they were taken into military service at the same time. However, two nations have never abided by this treaty. One was Britain, which has always maintained that they had the right to defend their ships in anyway they pleased.

The other was not as a lot of you might surmise Germany. It was our own US. The Brits signed the traty with the codicil I have mentioned. The United States in 1856 was not considered important enough. We observed but never signed it.

So why am I dunning you with history?

Because the way the Republic is run throughout the series of movies is not unlike our own world's imperial period. I can see a planet unable to build a true navy instead issuing letters of Marque.

Converting a merchantman of the Star Wars univers is both more difficult and easier than they had back in the day. Easier because most merchant vessels are a lot bigger than military ships, meaning they have room for prize crews, ammunition and weapons. More difficult because a warship is almost always faster than a merchantman, is more heavily constructed, and is designed to take the recoil of the weapons emplaced on them.

On a Star Trek Deep Space 9 episode in the sixth year they had a ship converted to raider, and when they fired the guns for the first time a lot of systems were knocked out of alignment. This is because as I said, they were not designed to carry such weapons. The heavier they are, the worse this problem would be.

As much as you might say 'but there is no recoil from energy weapons' you are correct but at the same time energy weapons such as blaster cannon and lasers and defenses such as shielding draw a lot of energy. Again a merchant vessel doesn't have a massive amount of energy generation to begin with. Why install all of the generators that a modern Battleship carries when your actual hotel load (Power necessary to run all systems) is smaller than a WWII destroyer? As an example, the hotel load of a super carrier is less than one 10th of the power it can generate.

You can't make money that way and civilian design in comparison to military has to be cost effective.

The worst problem is that civilian hull are weaker intrinsically than a warship. When you build a ship even down to the size of a patrol boat, you assume damage. You build in redundant systems, heavier blast doors, thicker hulls and decks. You plan for damage control, which increases you crew size, which also increases your required life support systems. A civilian ship on the other hand is built for the maximum amount of cargo that can be loaded in that space, and since you don't want to spend money on extra crew, a higher degree of automation. If a merchant is hit it will be more readily damaged and harder to repair.

So when you start loading weapons on that merchie, remember what I have said. Be sure to beef up the hull to take the pounding, beef up the generators so you can carry the energy load, and remember to increase casualties (If using this in an RPG).


'To argue with those who have renounced the use and authority of reason is as futile as to administer medicine to the dead.' Now who said that?

From the one who brought you;
What we die for...
Acceptance
KOTOR excerpts
Star Wars: The Beginning
Star Wars: Republic Dawn
Return From Exile
machievelli is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Post a new thread. Add a reply to this thread. Indicate all threads in this forum as read. Subscribe to this forum. RSS feed: this forum RSS feed: all forums
Go Back   LucasForums > Network > Knights of the Old Republic > Community > Coruscant Entertainment Centre > The Resource Centre > The Expert Forum

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:55 AM.

LFNetwork, LLC ©2002-2011 - All rights reserved.
Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.