lfnetwork.com mark read register faq members calendar

Thread: FOX News
Thread Tools Display Modes
Post a new thread. Add a reply to this thread. Indicate all threads in this forum as read. Subscribe to this forum. RSS feed: this forum RSS feed: all forums
Old 08-15-2006, 05:44 AM   #81
Dagobahn Eagle
First Strike Tester
 
Dagobahn Eagle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Bergen, Norway
Posts: 3,513
Current Game: First Strike
It's certainly lying to say WMDs were found in Iraq, for one thing. And just to get one thing straight: Degraded sarin is not a WMD.

Dagobahn Eagle is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 08-15-2006, 02:29 PM   #82
TK-8252
Get Cloned.
 
TK-8252's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 5,850
Not to mention that Bill O'Reilly (okay so they don't claim his is a "news" show) has been caught in numerous lies. Such as his defense of U.S. war crimes that took place during WWII that actually were Nazi war crimes (O'Reilly defends Nazi war criminals! Yay!) Or his fake War on Christmas and such...
TK-8252 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 08-15-2006, 03:57 PM   #83
Good Sir Knight
Junior Member
 
Good Sir Knight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: US
Posts: 285
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkinWalker
It could as easily be indicative of the overall lack of intelligence, cognitive abilities or the credulous nature of the viewers themselves (or any combination thereof).
Oh of course SkinWalker, without even meeting/conversing with the thousands of Fox viewers you're willing to judge that they're either:

A. Ignorant

or

B. Corrupt


That is so openminded of you. I love this tactic by the left. When backed into a corner they'll state one of two things.

1. Dissent is the highest form of Democracy

2. The other guys are just ignorant.


This is the type of attitude that makes Democrats lose elections. This is the type of attitude I want to see more of. The more outrageous and egotistical the left gets the better.


Oh and so I'm taking it that FoxNews hasn't flagrantly lied? I still haven't seen one iota of proof. Still waiting....


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dagobahn Eagle
It's certainly lying to say WMDs were found in Iraq, for one thing. And just to get one thing straight: Degraded sarin is not a WMD.
That's your definition, here's Princeton's.


A weapon that kills or injures civilian as well as military personnel (nuclear and chemical and biological weapons)
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn


Again you didn't even watch that segment, furthermore you've probably never even watched FoxNews you've just read someone's opinion.

I watched this segment and they were careful to note exactly what was found and what wasn't.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sockerbit89
Oh for christ sake. Why does everything have to be black or white for you GSK? FOX has to be found liying or innocent til the opposite proved is that it?
Until I can actually understand what you're trying to put across, I won't be able to address you. Please restate your question.
Good Sir Knight is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 08-15-2006, 04:03 PM   #84
Good Sir Knight
Junior Member
 
Good Sir Knight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: US
Posts: 285
What of Rather's demise at CBS?

I doubt any of you were really concerned about the integrity there... gee I wonder why?
Good Sir Knight is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 08-15-2006, 04:19 PM   #85
TK-8252
Get Cloned.
 
TK-8252's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 5,850
GSK, I already posted you the wikipedia page that shows at least two direct lies by Faux News:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fox_New...alse_reporting

Did you not see it? One was fake quotes that made John Kerry look bad, and another was about a non-existant chemical weapons facility "found" in 2003.

It those aren't lies... I don't know what are.


Rather was a fraud and everybody knows that. I don't think anyone's going to dispute that. It seems though that a lot of Americans turn to Faux News for their (mis)information, listen to Bill O'Reilly and think "OMG, Christmas is under attack, we gotta vote Republican to save Jesus from the evil atheist conspiracy!"

Faux News is worse than any Soviet propaganda station - most people can't see through its bias, because they themselves are neocons and want to believe this stuff. They want to believe that Christians are a persecuted minority that must fight back. They want to believe that al-Qaeda is on the run. They want to believe that the government isn't corrupt and full of liars. They want to believe that WMD's were found in Iraq.
TK-8252 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 08-15-2006, 04:27 PM   #86
Dagobahn Eagle
First Strike Tester
 
Dagobahn Eagle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Bergen, Norway
Posts: 3,513
Current Game: First Strike
Quote:
I watched this segment and they were careful to note exactly what was found and what wasn't.
Namely: "Huge chemical weapons factory found in Iraq... Reports: 30 Iraqis surrender at chem weapons plant... coal. troops holding Iraqi in charge of chem. weapons.". That's the news banner they ran.

Quote:
Oh of course SkinWalker, without even meeting/conversing with the thousands of Fox viewers you're willing to judge that they're either [ignorant or corrupt]
Either that, or made that way by FOX News. And Skin isn't the one saying it - his independent, objective report is.

FOX News-viewers have a far, far higher level of misconceptions than viewers of other channels. There are only two explanation for that - that they are ignorant already, or that FOX News is mis-leading.

Quote:
That is so openminded of you.
Says the guy who obviously has not bothered to read the article.

Quote:
This is the type of attitude that makes Democrats lose elections.
What's funny is that it's also true. Supporters of torture, the invasion of Iraq, and other dubious acts of Dubya all have some sort of mis-conception about what they're discussing. Debate torture with a supporter of it, and he'll rant on about how torture can be controlled, how mental abuse is not torture, and so on (take the test). According to a series of focus groups done by ACLU, most torture-supporters got their view-point from - guess - the TV series 24. Wow, what a great source of information on torture.

And I bet you 99% of neo-cons haven't even touched the Downing Street Memo.

Finally, if I take Wikipedia's statistic regarding how 40% of conservatives watch FOX News, and couple it with PIPA's report on how 80% of FOX News' viewers have one or more serious mis-conceptions about the Iraqi war, that adds up to a bit.

Quote:
I doubt any of you were really concerned about the integrity there... gee I wonder why?
Maybe because CBS-viewers don't have nearly as many mis-conceptions about things as FOX News' viewers?

Quote:
A weapon that kills or injures civilian as well as military personnel (nuclear and chemical and biological weapons)
But does degraded sarin do that? Skin, you know this one.


Last edited by Dagobahn Eagle; 08-15-2006 at 04:40 PM.
Dagobahn Eagle is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 08-15-2006, 06:05 PM   #87
toms
v0.9
 
toms's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: uk swamp
Posts: 3,490
Quote:
Originally Posted by Good Sir Knight
I doubt any of you were really concerned about the integrity there... gee I wonder why?
Well, i missed most of that incident, not being in the us, so tell me if i'm wring here.. but didn't they admit they were wrong and apologise?

Maybe Foz has admitted it was wrong and apologised too. Anyone?

Of course anyone can make mistakes.. its whether you admit to them and learn from them.. or keep repeating them thats important.



Playing: Link to the Past, Astroboy, Kario Kart, Mario World (Micro) KOTOR 2: Sith Lords (Xbox) Morrowind (PC)
toms is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 08-16-2006, 01:01 AM   #88
SkinWalker
Anthropologist
 
SkinWalker's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Give critical thought a chance
Posts: 2,709
LFN Staff Member 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Good Sir Knight
Oh of course SkinWalker, without even meeting/conversing with the thousands of Fox viewers you're willing to judge that they're either:

A. Ignorant

or

B. Corrupt
If you look back at what I actually wrote you would see I used neither the word "ignorant" nor "corrupt." Indeed, I didn't even say that was what I believed of Fox viewers. I said it could as easily represent the options I listed as it could out-right lies and deception on the part of Fox News. You really should pay closer attention and assume less when it comes to what others write, it'll go further in your favor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Good Sir Knight
That is so openminded of you. I love this tactic by the left. When backed into a corner they'll state one of two things.
I'm a conservative.


A Hot Cup of Joe - My Blog

Not finding an intellectual challenge in the Swamp? Try the Senate Chambers!

Evolution and How We Know It's Right - Post your thoughts!
Debate Strategies & Tactics - Polish your online debate skills and offer your own advice
SkinWalker is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 08-17-2006, 03:33 PM   #89
Good Sir Knight
Junior Member
 
Good Sir Knight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: US
Posts: 285
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dagobahn Eagle
Namely: "Huge chemical weapons factory found in Iraq... Reports: 30 Iraqis surrender at chem weapons plant... coal. troops holding Iraqi in charge of chem. weapons.". That's the news banner they ran.

Either that, or made that way by FOX News. And Skin isn't the one saying it - his independent, objective report is.
Oh sure it's independent. I go to their site and surprise surprise it's all about how America is evil.

Gimme a break.

Oh and I'm sure that FoxNews corrected it's story if it was originally untrue, prove that they didn't.

Somewhere other than wikipedia please.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dagobahn Eagle
FOX News-viewers have a far, far higher level of misconceptions than viewers of other channels. There are only two explanation for that - that they are ignorant already, or that FOX News is mis-leading.
Yeah base your opinion of thousands of people on one flimsy little poll. Yawn.


Oh and Dagobahn, even IF detainees are being torchered. I couldn't care less.

They're not from a standing army and they fight like cowards.

If it were Norwegian/French/German/Saudi Arabian SOLDIERS then I would be opposed to it.

Let them rot I say, they have no rights.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SkinWalker
It could as easily be indicative of the overall lack of intelligence, cognitive abilities or the credulous nature of the viewers themselves (or any combination thereof).
|
|
V
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkinWalker
Indeed, I didn't even say that was what I believed of Fox viewers.
Contradiction?



Quote:
Originally Posted by SkinWalker
I'm a conservative.

I honestly chuckled, don't make me dig up that PM you sent me describing how you're neither conservative or liberal.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TK-8252
Faux News is worse than any Soviet propaganda station
Listen to yourself, I was told by a Russian exchange student in highschool that we really didn't land on the moon.


I'm sorry I wasn't able to touch on everyone's points today, I've been out of pocket. It's also a little hard when I'm the only right winger in here.

Last edited by SkinWalker; 08-17-2006 at 09:41 PM. Reason: Fixed quote citations
Good Sir Knight is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 08-17-2006, 03:42 PM   #90
Det. Bart Lasiter
obama.png
 
Det. Bart Lasiter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: `(.)~
Posts: 7,997
Current Game: all
Forum Veteran LF Jester 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Good Sir Knight
Listen to yourself, I was told by a Russian exchange student in highschool that we really didn't land on the moon.
We did land on the moon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Good Sir Knight
Thank you jmac for proving my point better than I possibly could! Please reevaluate the point you were responding to, here it is again.



Do you see that? I do see a difference between pacifists and liberals and that was my point!

A pacifist is against all types of violence, a liberal simply roots for another team.

That's why I can respect a pacifist's point of view and not a liberals. Thank you so much for that contribution jmac, thank you.




Prove it.
I never said you didn't draw a distinction between the two, I was merely pointing out that a liberal isn't necessarily a pacifist. As for proving that Fox doesn't broadcast news, the fact that 90% of the crap they've been broadcasting lately has been **** like "...more rockets exploded in northern Israel today...," proves my point. **** exploding in a war isn't news, and Bill O'Reilly getting pissed at Democrats isn't news either.



"No, Mama. You can bet your sweet ass and half a titty whoever put that hit on you already got the cops in their back pocket." ~Black Dynamite
Det. Bart Lasiter is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 08-17-2006, 03:45 PM   #91
Good Sir Knight
Junior Member
 
Good Sir Knight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: US
Posts: 285
That was my point jmac, he was saying that FoxNews was worse than Soviet propaganda so I sited an example of a brain washed Russian teenager.

This is the second time you've done this. You're like a child that walks in the room during a movie and asks what the plot is.
Good Sir Knight is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 08-17-2006, 03:50 PM   #92
Det. Bart Lasiter
obama.png
 
Det. Bart Lasiter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: `(.)~
Posts: 7,997
Current Game: all
Forum Veteran LF Jester 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Good Sir Knight
That was my point jmac, he was saying that FoxNews was worse than Soviet propaganda so I sited an example of a brain washed Russian teenager.

This is the second time you've done this. You're like a child that walks in the room during a movie and asks what the plot is.
I love that movie. But I posted that because I wan't aware the Soviets spread propaganda about the U.S. not landing on the moon.



"No, Mama. You can bet your sweet ass and half a titty whoever put that hit on you already got the cops in their back pocket." ~Black Dynamite
Det. Bart Lasiter is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 08-17-2006, 03:57 PM   #93
Good Sir Knight
Junior Member
 
Good Sir Knight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: US
Posts: 285
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmac7142
I was merely pointing out that a liberal isn't necessarily a pacifist.
Yes you did but what I was really talking about was the distinction between the two and why I can respect one viewpoint and not another.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmac7142
I love that movie. But I posted that because I wan't aware the Soviets spread propaganda about the U.S. not landing on the moon.
I'm glad you got the joke

It is a great movie.
Good Sir Knight is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 08-17-2006, 04:15 PM   #94
TK-8252
Get Cloned.
 
TK-8252's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 5,850
Before I address your post GSK, I have to point out that you got some of the quotes wrong. Most of the quotes are from SkinWalker but you put them with Dagobahn...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Good Sir Knight
Oh and I'm sure that FoxNews corrected it's story if it was originally untrue, prove that they didn't.

Somewhere other than wikipedia please.
It seems that you've forgotten who has the burden of proof. If you want to disprove that Faux News has straight-out lied, then you need to find where they pulled the story where they did lie. If they did pull the story (specifically about a WMD facility that they wanted to say was found in 2003), which as far as I know they did not, that would make them sloppy journalists at best. Because someone watching Faux News one day will see the story, then not be watching Faux News the day they apologized for the false story, they'll still think that WMD were found in Iraq.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Good Sir Knight
Yeah base your opinion of thousands of people on one flimsy little poll. Yawn.
How else are you supposed to measure it? Go interview each of the thousands of viewers?? The poll seems pretty damning to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Good Sir Knight
Oh and Dagobahn, even IF detainees are being torchered. I couldn't care less.
You don't care that innocent people would be being tortured?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Good Sir Knight
They're not from a standing army and they fight like cowards.
How do you know they're fighters? Don't you believe in innocent until proven guilty? Due process of law?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Good Sir Knight
Let them rot I say, they have no rights.
Yes... because someone is from Afghanistan, they don't have basic human rights that even Saddam Hussein is getting: due process.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Good Sir Knight
Listen to yourself, I was told by a Russian exchange student in highschool that we really didn't land on the moon.
And you can easily pass them off as a brainwashed Russian who has been programmed by the Soviet propaganda machine.

But have an American say "yeah there were WMD's in Iraq" and it's not that simple. Were they watching Faux News? Do they believe what Bush has said (up until recently when he's saying how there weren't WMD)? Or do they just think that Saddam was a bastard so he MUST have WMD?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Good Sir Knight
I'm sorry I wasn't able to touch on everyone's points today, I've been out of pocket. It's also a little hard when I'm the only right winger in here.
I'm more conservative than you that's for sure. There's nothing conservative about the big government nonsense that you support.

It's amazing how you feel it is your duty to defend a biased, Republican propaganda station just because you say you're a right-winger. Why? Should liberals defend Dan Rather because he supports their politics? No. No matter what your political leanings are, you should criticize both left-wing and right-wing bias in news.
TK-8252 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 08-17-2006, 08:57 PM   #95
Dagobahn Eagle
First Strike Tester
 
Dagobahn Eagle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Bergen, Norway
Posts: 3,513
Current Game: First Strike
Quote:
Oh and Dagobahn, even IF detainees are being torchered. I couldn't care less.

They're not from a standing army and they fight like cowards.

If it were Norwegian/French/German/Saudi Arabian SOLDIERS then I would be opposed to it.

Let them rot I say, they have no rights.
Take that to the Road to Guantanamo thread. Check the sources I posted there, and then address them. All the points above have been replied to, and hence you should address the replies instead of restating over and over what you've already said. I left a reply to your "cowards" argument there, too.

Oh, and it's "tortured", not "torchered".

Quote:
Yeah base your opinion of thousands of people on one flimsy little poll. Yawn.
"One Flimsy little poll"? According to PIPA, it was a series of seven. Oh, and why can't I anyway? You base your argument on one single Russian teenager.

Quote:
Oh, sure it's independent. I go to their site and surprise surprise it's all about how America is evil.
Name one example, please. I see some things about the US, namely:
"Americans Support Full Due-Process Rights for Terrorism Suspects",
"Majorities Oppose Rendition of Suspects to Countries that Practice Torture", and
"Most Believe Abu-Ghraib-type Abuses Still Occurring"

..but nothing about the US being evil. I guess the closest thing to get to that is how many believe the Abu Grahib torture is still going on, but that's the suspicion of the people polled, not of PIPA itself.


Last edited by Dagobahn Eagle; 08-18-2006 at 12:28 AM.
Dagobahn Eagle is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 08-17-2006, 09:52 PM   #96
SkinWalker
Anthropologist
 
SkinWalker's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Give critical thought a chance
Posts: 2,709
LFN Staff Member 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GSK
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkinWalker
It could as easily be indicative of the overall lack of intelligence, cognitive abilities or the credulous nature of the viewers themselves (or any combination thereof).
|
|
V
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkinWalker
Indeed, I didn't even say that was what I believed of Fox viewers.
Contradiction?
I don't see how. I pointed out several hypotheses. I didn't say these were the only hypotheses. I never claimed to believe one more than the other. It seems you have some comprehension difficulties here. At first I thought I was being ambiguous in my comments, but I read over them and they appear clear and concise. Read back over them and tell me, specifically, where I contradicted myself.

But let me ask you, if the hypotheses I presented don't explain the level of misperception that is evident in Fox News viewers, what does? If it isn't lies, deception, intelligence, cognitive abilities or the credulous nature of the viewers, what is it?


Quote:
Originally Posted by GSK
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkinWalker
I'm a conservative.

I honestly chuckled, don't make me dig up that PM you sent me describing how you're neither conservative or liberal.
I definitely *do not* fit the mold of false dichotomy that political fanatics create for "conservative versus liberal." I have opinions that are extremely conservative and others that are quite liberal. In my opinion, anyone that toes a party line is unable to think for themselves and arrive at their own conclusions and opinions.


A Hot Cup of Joe - My Blog

Not finding an intellectual challenge in the Swamp? Try the Senate Chambers!

Evolution and How We Know It's Right - Post your thoughts!
Debate Strategies & Tactics - Polish your online debate skills and offer your own advice
SkinWalker is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 08-19-2006, 11:36 PM   #97
Dagobahn Eagle
First Strike Tester
 
Dagobahn Eagle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Bergen, Norway
Posts: 3,513
Current Game: First Strike
I recommend the Outfoxed clips on Youtube. A sample: The sample.

Another lie:
Quote:
We hope you'll depend on us for the truth, 'cause we're gonna report the situation in Iraq without (...) political prejudice.
Yet another lie: Here.

Dagobahn Eagle is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 08-22-2006, 04:10 PM   #98
Good Sir Knight
Junior Member
 
Good Sir Knight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: US
Posts: 285
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkinWalker
I don't see how. I pointed out several hypotheses. I didn't say these were the only hypotheses. I never claimed to believe one more than the other. It seems you have some comprehension difficulties here. At first I thought I was being ambiguous in my comments, but I read over them and they appear clear and concise. Read back over them and tell me, specifically, where I contradicted myself.

But let me ask you, if the hypotheses I presented don't explain the level of misperception that is evident in Fox News viewers, what does? If it isn't lies, deception, intelligence, cognitive abilities or the credulous nature of the viewers, what is it?
So what? You explained your opinion like any politician, it gives you plausible deniability while still puting your point across.

You still made your point, don't be shy SkinWalker... you know that's how you feel so just say it for once.

No one is going to judge you here...well...except for me.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SkinWalker
I definitely *do not* fit the mold of false dichotomy that political fanatics create for "conservative versus liberal." I have opinions that are extremely conservative and others that are quite liberal. In my opinion, anyone that toes a party line is unable to think for themselves and arrive at their own conclusions and opinions.
Then why'd you say that you're a conservative? I think you're starting to sound alot like that guy John Kerry.

You are on the left wing my friend, that is for sure.

I'm very right wing but that doesn't mean that I support the drug war... so please don't assume that I'm a Republican either.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TK-8252
I'm more conservative than you that's for sure. There's nothing conservative about the big government nonsense that you support
Oh my goodness this is great. I live in a blue state in a very blue city. The right wingers here are very moderate.

TK my friend, you are not a conservative.

Though perhaps you are. I'm well aware that many liberals can become so left wing that they're conservative in their own little way.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dagobahn Eagle
Oh, and why can't I anyway?
I never said you couldn't, I'm just laughing because you base your entire opinion (of thousands of people) on one little poll.

Big woop, I can waste my time showing you polls that are in favor of my pov and I'd get no where with you.

Why? Because they're silly little polls that aren't really transparent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dagobahn Eagle
I left a reply to your "cowards" argument there, too.
Oh my cowards argument, boo hoo. Mr. Eagle, I do hope that your friends in Gitmo are being tortured with Brian Adams and ACDC.

I bet they scream to drown out the sound, not loud enough though.
Good Sir Knight is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 08-22-2006, 05:14 PM   #99
TK-8252
Get Cloned.
 
TK-8252's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 5,850
Quote:
Originally Posted by Good Sir Knight
TK my friend, you are not a conservative.
Correct, I'm not a "conservative." If I fit into any political ideology I'm a libertarian... which is considered a right-wing ideology. I despise big government in every form it comes in... but the people at Faux News cheer on the GOP and its big government neoconservative agenda at every turn.
TK-8252 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 08-22-2006, 05:51 PM   #100
Good Sir Knight
Junior Member
 
Good Sir Knight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: US
Posts: 285
Libertarian? Then surely you would support the 2nd amendment and the legalization of drugs/prostitution?

Two things I can agree with, the drugs part in principle.

Watching FoxNews, every pundit has shown disgust with Bush's immigration policy (and I agree). So they don't agree on everything, sorry.
Good Sir Knight is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 08-22-2006, 05:59 PM   #101
TK-8252
Get Cloned.
 
TK-8252's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 5,850
Quote:
Originally Posted by Good Sir Knight
Libertarian? Then surely you would support the 2nd amendment and the legalization of drugs/prostitution?
Of course.
TK-8252 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 08-22-2006, 06:02 PM   #102
Good Sir Knight
Junior Member
 
Good Sir Knight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: US
Posts: 285
Cool, something we can agree on. The drugs/prostitution thing for me is in principal of course, I don't think I'd want to legalize meth but...you get the drift.

But yeah, FoxNews has been very outspoken in their disdain for Bush's immigration policy so... I wouldn't go so far as to say they toe the Bush line absolutely.

They didn't like one of his picks for the supreme court either...I don't think any body did.
Good Sir Knight is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 08-23-2006, 06:00 AM   #103
Dagobahn Eagle
First Strike Tester
 
Dagobahn Eagle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Bergen, Norway
Posts: 3,513
Current Game: First Strike
Quote:
Oh my cowards argument, boo hoo. Mr. Eagle, I do hope that your friends in Gitmo are being tortured with Brian Adams and ACDC.

I bet they scream to drown out the sound, not loud enough though.
What about just addressing it instead of... That?

It's got to be a great feeling, though, to hope someone's getting tortured. It's probably not good for rational thinking, to harbour that much hatred.

Reminds me of the bigotted fellow in 12 Angry Men who wanted to "pull the switch" [Hint: Electric chair] of the murder suspect himself. And we all know how well he reasoned...

And, since you obviously ignore the Guantanamo thread, here's a little document that does cover the Guantanamo internees, who are, after all, "members of the human family" - regardless of how "cowardly" they are: The Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Article 5, in particular, interests me.

Not that you care less about their rights, of course, I've long since realized that the "they have no rights"-refrain of the right-wing is just a shield to keep from debating whether or not the detainees should be tortured.

Quote:
I never said you couldn't, I'm just laughing because you base your entire opinion (of thousands of people) on one little poll.
Seven.

And I can ensure you that those seven polls combined do cover "thousands of people".


Last edited by Dagobahn Eagle; 08-23-2006 at 11:57 AM.
Dagobahn Eagle is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 08-23-2006, 06:56 AM   #104
CapNColostomy
Custom User Title
 
CapNColostomy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Across your face.
Posts: 2,497
Why would anyone be dumb enough to trust any media outlet over another, or government for that matter? I don't care where you get your news from, it's controlled by money, which is synonomous with it's controlled by big business, which is synonomous with it's controlled by someones government, which is synonomous with it's bull**** more often than not.


CapNColostomy is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 08-23-2006, 11:58 AM   #105
Dagobahn Eagle
First Strike Tester
 
Dagobahn Eagle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Bergen, Norway
Posts: 3,513
Current Game: First Strike
Quote:
Why would anyone be dumb enough to trust any media outlet over another[...]
Because one has been proven to be very biased and untruthful, whereas the other...

Dagobahn Eagle is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 08-23-2006, 02:14 PM   #106
Good Sir Knight
Junior Member
 
Good Sir Knight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: US
Posts: 285
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dagobahn Eagle
Reminds me of the bigotted fellow in 12 Angry Men who wanted to "pull the switch" [Hint: Electric chair] of the murder suspect himself. And we all know how well he reasoned...
Yes and being exceedingly pro-Palestinian I'm sure you can understand why they avoid the Israeli military and blow up civilians. To each his own.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dagobahn Eagle
And, since you obviously ignore the Guantanamo thread, here's a little document that does cover the Guantanamo internees, who are, after all, "members of the human family" - regardless of how "cowardly" they are: The Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Article 5, in particular, interests me.
Cry me a river. I don't think the Gitmo detainees are being tortured in the classical sense, in order to extract data from a detainee you need to make him feel uncomfortable and it's a far cry compared to most other governments.

You just don't hear about it because America is the new bad guy apparently.

Again I don't care about the detainees, I don't think detainees are harmed physically on a broad scale but I certainly wish they were.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dagobahn Eagle
And I can ensure you that those seven polls combined do cover "thousands of people".
Yeah and it's all from the same organization. Where's the data behind it? You don't have the data behind it and you don't care because you agree.

They're judging people's responses based upon what they believe is going on in Iraq, just their opinion and they may be smart people but not that smart.

Again you don't mind because you can agree with it, only natural.
Good Sir Knight is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 08-23-2006, 03:40 PM   #107
TK-8252
Get Cloned.
 
TK-8252's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 5,850
Besides Abu Ghraib, this is a good example of what could very well be going on at GITMO.

The most disturbing part of that scandal is this:

"It would be many months before Army investigators learned a final horrific detail: Most of the interrogators had believed Mr. Dilawar was an innocent man who simply drove his taxi past the American base at the wrong time."

So an innocent taxi driver at the wrong place at the wrong time gets pulled off the street and ends up tortured, beaten, and murdered in a U.S. prison. And it will happen again. It very well might be happening right now.

And so what happens to the interrogators who tortured and murdered this innocent taxi driver?

Most of them got a fine and a slap on the wrist. Absolutely amazing.

Justice in the military is a joke. Every single one of these interrogators - even the ones who didn't even strike the man but just KNEW it was going on - should have been put in front of a firing squad.
TK-8252 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 08-23-2006, 03:58 PM   #108
Good Sir Knight
Junior Member
 
Good Sir Knight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: US
Posts: 285
Quote:
Originally Posted by TK-8252
Justice in the military is a joke. Every single one of these interrogators - even the ones who didn't even strike the man but just KNEW it was going on - should have been put in front of a firing squad.
Your justice is a joke. You just eliminated any shred of credibility you had with that statement. You didn't even bring up the possiblity of a trial, something you would readily afford suspected terrorists that are not US citizens and do not come from a true military (no papers, no uniform).
Good Sir Knight is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 08-23-2006, 04:03 PM   #109
TK-8252
Get Cloned.
 
TK-8252's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 5,850
Quote:
Originally Posted by Good Sir Knight
Your justice is a joke. You just eliminated any shred of credibility you had with that statement. You didn't even bring up the possiblity of a trial, something you would readily afford suspected terrorists.
They DID have a trial, something that the innocent Afghan taxi driver didn't get before he was tortured and murdered. Do you have no sympathy for this man?? Did you read the entire article? The interrogators got off with a slap on the wrist. It should have been execution.

Every time something like this happens it feeds right into the hands of terrorists for propaganda and recruiting purposes. I say lock these soldiers up for being traitors... they're working for the enemy.
TK-8252 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 08-23-2006, 04:11 PM   #110
Good Sir Knight
Junior Member
 
Good Sir Knight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: US
Posts: 285
Quote:
Originally Posted by TK-8252
Do you have no sympathy for this man??
Sure I do, if his story is true. There will always be mistakes in a war TK, there will always be innocents lossed...always have always will.

I think firing squad for the soldiers is a bit harsh given the offence, surely you can agree.

Would you support the firing squad for detainees if they were found guilty? I don't think you would because most of the civilized world hates capital punishment.

People might call you a fascist American

Quote:
Originally Posted by TK-8252
I say lock these soldiers up for being traitors... they're working for the enemy.
I thought you wanted to shoot them? Oh and I'd never advocate firing squad for these detainees, I want them to languish under our mercy while eating ethnicaly sensitive foods.
Good Sir Knight is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 08-23-2006, 04:29 PM   #111
TK-8252
Get Cloned.
 
TK-8252's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 5,850
Yes there will be atrocities in war... but this wasn't an accident. A pilot who bombs a wedding party after being given intelligence that it's an insurgent warehouse shouldn't be prosecuted. Not his fault. But intentionally torturing and beating a man who you KNOW is innocent until he dies, just for the fun of it... you really can't find a lower form of life.

But I'm torn on the death penalty. On one hand I sure as hell don't want to see innocent people executed. I don't trust the government with the power to legally kill someone in something other than self-defense. However, some crimes are just so heinous that in certain instances, like this taxi driver's case, I just want to be able to say "good riddance." Perhaps I'm hypocritical in this way.

I'm against the death penalty in civilian courts... not because I don't think it fits the crime, but because I don't think the government should have the power to execute its own citizens. There have been innocent people executed on death row, and as long as we have an imperfect justice system, there will continue to be innocents executed.

Military courts though are different, because soldiers must be held to a higher standard than civilians. Every time a soldier mistreats an Afghan or an Iraqi it hurts America in the worst possible way. That's traitorous.
TK-8252 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 08-23-2006, 04:38 PM   #112
toms
v0.9
 
toms's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: uk swamp
Posts: 3,490
I wouldn't trust any one news outlet EXCLUSIVELY.. however there are some that i'd trust more than others. The Sun, for example.. i'd almost never trust. Fox and the Daily Mail I might trust - with some verification.



Playing: Link to the Past, Astroboy, Kario Kart, Mario World (Micro) KOTOR 2: Sith Lords (Xbox) Morrowind (PC)
toms is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 08-23-2006, 06:46 PM   #113
Good Sir Knight
Junior Member
 
Good Sir Knight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: US
Posts: 285
Quote:
Originally Posted by TK-8252
Military courts though are different, because soldiers must be held to a higher standard than civilians. Every time a soldier mistreats an Afghan or an Iraqi it hurts America in the worst possible way. That's traitorous.
So you're all for military tribunals? Me too.

It's too bad that the supreme court in all it's wisdom decided that enemy combatants deserve the same legal system afforded to our citizens.

A shame... quite a shame.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TK-8252
Every time a soldier mistreats an Afghan or an Iraqi it hurts America in the worst possible way. That's traitorous.
It hurts America because there is a bias against America, especially in the middle east.

There is simply no other 'occupying' force in the history of the middle east that has treated the 'local population' as good as the US Military.

There will always be mistakes, do you think the US Military just likes to see people suffer?

Give me a break, we're too merciful in my opinion and that's interpreted as a weakness in that savage part of the world.
Good Sir Knight is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 08-23-2006, 07:18 PM   #114
TK-8252
Get Cloned.
 
TK-8252's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 5,850
Quote:
Originally Posted by Good Sir Knight
So you're all for military tribunals? Me too.

It's too bad that the supreme court in all it's wisdom decided that enemy combatants deserve the same legal system afforded to our citizens.

A shame... quite a shame.
That decision was a disappointment to me, but what I don't understand is why the GITMO guys can't just be tried in either the country they were found in, or the country they're from.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Good Sir Knight
It hurts America because there is a bias against America, especially in the middle east.
That's right. And the best way we can fight that bias is by proving that it's not true.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Good Sir Knight
There is simply no other 'occupying' force in the history of the middle east that has treated the 'local population' as good as the US Military.
Perhaps, but that's because the U.S. military is the best in the world... at least it was before Iraqnam.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Good Sir Knight
There will always be mistakes, do you think the US Military just likes to see people suffer?
NO, of course not, except for a few select individuals such as the Abu Ghraib folks...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Good Sir Knight
Give me a break, we're too merciful in my opinion and that's interpreted as a weakness in that savage part of the world.
The last thing that Middle Eastern wackos think of us is that we're merciful. I think we should be merciful though. That's what makes us better than those savages.
TK-8252 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 08-24-2006, 01:44 AM   #115
TK-8252
Get Cloned.
 
TK-8252's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 5,850
On the topic of Faux News, check this clip out...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=XEuKg4vCK0s

Sean Hannity making a dumbass of himself... as usual...
TK-8252 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 08-24-2006, 03:34 AM   #116
Dagobahn Eagle
First Strike Tester
 
Dagobahn Eagle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Bergen, Norway
Posts: 3,513
Current Game: First Strike
Quote:
Yes and being exceedingly pro-Palestinian I'm sure you can understand why they avoid the Israeli military and blow up civilians.
Understanding is one thing. Supporting it - which it for some obscure reason it seems you imply I am ( ) - is another.

Quote:
I don't think the Gitmo detainees are being tortured in the classical sense
And I don't think there are US troops in Iraq. Never mind all the evidence to the contrary - I don't support Operation Iraqi Freedom, so I don't think it exists. And even if it did, the US "army" doesn't fit my private definition of "army" [Crawls back under rock].

Quote:
[...] in order to extract data from a detainee you need to make him feel uncomfortable [...]
Fallacy. It's true that there needs to be some discomfort involved, but it does not follow that said discomfort needs to be at torture-level.
Quote:
[...] and it's a far cry compared to most other governments.
Sigh. Keep re-stating arguments that have already been refuted. See how much I care.

Quote:
There will always be mistakes in a war TK, there will always be innocents lossed...always have always will.
You're starting to remind me of a low-rate TV channel. Nothing new, only re-runs.

Give me some new arguments, or address our replies to the ones you've already given. Don't just re-state them.

Quote:
Give me a break, we're too merciful in my opinion and that's interpreted as a weakness in that savage part of the world.
The old "US mercy"-argument again?

I agree, it's sending a very poor message to the Middle East. Let's get tougher.

OK, so torture in direct violation of Human Rights granted to "all members of the human family" is a sign of mercy and weakness. Pre-emptively invading a sovereign country in violation of the UN and the whole world on the basis of lies is weakness. Using napalm and carpet-bombing residential areas is a sign of weakness. The PATRIOT ACT, which overrides several amendments in the Constitution,

Yeah, how meek and gentle the Republican Party is. But what are we going to do to get this "toughness" message across? I suggest we drop an atomic bomb on Baghdad!

...No, wait, just one bomb when we have 10 000+ and can drop them all... Nah, American mercy again. Sends a message of weakness...

Hmmm... I'll get back to you. Don't worry, I'll think of something.

Seriously, though, do you have any idea of how effective a recruitment tool the Guantanamo Torture is for the terrorists? Carol Boggert, Associate Director of Human Rights Watch, deems it "the #1 recruitment tool for the terrorists". And she's just one of many. 'Cause here's a newsflash: No one likes to hear that their comrades are being tortured. It's not a good diplomatic tool.

You think the terrorists hit WTC on 9/11 because America's been too nice in the past? I do not. If you do, please quote one terrorist stating otherwise. One.

Quote:
It hurts America because there is a bias against America, especially in the middle east.
So if foreigners are appaled, it's not because it's wrong, but because there's a bias against the States.

Quote:
There will always be mistakes, do you think the US Military just likes to see people suffer?
Are you saying they're somehow more than human? 'Cause yes, a lot of humans, even American soldiers, enjoy to see people suffer. The torture in Abu Grahib is evidence enough of that to me.

Humans are evil, plain and simple. And US soldiers are, like it or not, humans.


Last edited by Dagobahn Eagle; 08-24-2006 at 09:05 AM.
Dagobahn Eagle is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 08-28-2006, 10:29 PM   #117
Good Sir Knight
Junior Member
 
Good Sir Knight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: US
Posts: 285
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dagobahn Eagle
Understanding is one thing. Supporting it - which it for some obscure reason it seems you imply I am ( ) - is another.
Dagobahn, I don't believe you or your flimsy evidence from biased organizations and think tanks, give it a rest.

Even if they were really being tortured there, I'd be half mad at best.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dagobahn Eagle
And I don't think there are US troops in Iraq. Never mind all the evidence to the contrary - I don't support Operation Iraqi Freedom, so I don't think it exists. And even if it did, the US "army" doesn't fit my private definition of "army" [Crawls back under rock].
Much more of an army than the Norwegian military, bigger than the entire thing really. That might make you feel like I'm being yet another cocky American but it's a fact.

For your information, the US Army is very much in Iraq.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dagobahn Eagle
Fallacy. It's true that there needs to be some discomfort involved, but it does not follow that said discomfort needs to be at torture-level.Sigh. Keep re-stating arguments that have already been refuted. See how much I care.
Again this is your view point, this is how you and the organizations you agree with define torture.

Any allegations of torture are taken very seriously by the US Government and we have people in jail due to the HANDFUL of embarassments in Iraq. A handful of incidents when hundreds of thousands of US Soldiers have served in Iraq with dignity, respect and bravery.

Know your source.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dagobahn Eagle
You're starting to remind me of a low-rate TV channel. Nothing new, only re-runs.
Ya know I was about to say the same thing about you. I'm expecting to hear any minute now that Bush lied and he controls the media.

You need to diversify your sources my friend, America is not the empire you want it to be.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dagobahn Eagle
The old "US mercy"-argument again?
Well at least I know my population wasn't complicit in the wholescale slaughter of Jewish people just 60 years ago. Sure it wasn't the US's reason for going to war but it wasn't going on in our backyard. Often times Nazi occupied territories saw their own people rounding up and in some cases killing jews.

This was just a short while back.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dagobahn Eagle
I agree, it's sending a very poor message to the Middle East. Let's get tougher.
Terrorism is the use of violence against civilians to foment political/religious change in a given society. One can see this process in action if he looks back at the Madrid bombings, Islamic terrorism won big time that day and sighed a breath of relief.

They're still under threat by the way, capitulation is a hallmark of European history.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dagobahn Eagle
Yeah, how meek and gentle the Republican Party is. But what are we going to do to get this "toughness" message across? I suggest we drop an atomic bomb on Baghdad!
If any nukes go off in the Middle East they'll be in Tehran of Tel Aviv. My bet is that Iran is going to be nuked and it's going to happen sooner than people think.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dagobahn Eagle
Seriously, though, do you have any idea of how effective a recruitment tool the Guantanamo Torture is for the terrorists?
Abu Ghraib was one incident that was wrong and indecent, one mistake. Gitmo is a different story, I haven't heard of anything I and others in my camp would define as torture.

The media that you read and listen to sensationalizes this. They make it seem like it's an institutionalized thing. They're polarized and they don't want to see America succeed in the middle east.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dagobahn Eagle
Carol Boggert, Associate Director of Human Rights Watch
Wow another biased organization.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dagobahn Eagle
You think the terrorists hit WTC on 9/11 because America's been too nice in the past? I do not. If you do, please quote one terrorist stating otherwise. One.
911 happened because OBL was huffy about the presence of US troops on 'holy' soil.

He responds by attacking American interests and one can assume, emboldened by Clinton's pathetic resolve and lack of common sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dagobahn Eagle
So if foreigners are appaled, it's not because it's wrong, but because there's a bias against the States.
Yes there is a bias against the United States and we all know that a 'bias' is a bad thing because the world is not black and white.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dagobahn Eagle
Humans are evil, plain and simple. And US soldiers are, like it or not, humans.
The US Military, as an occupier, is the most professional, respectful and humanitarian fighting force the middle east has ever seen. Arguably the world.
Good Sir Knight is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 08-28-2006, 11:16 PM   #118
Jae Onasi
Antiquis temporibus, nati tibi similes in rupibus ventosissimis exponebantur ad necem
 
Jae Onasi's Avatar
 
Status: Super Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 10,912
Current Game: Guild Wars 2, VtMB, TOR
Alderaan News Holopics contributor Helpful! LucasCast staff Veteran Fan Fic Author 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dagobahn Eagle

And I don't think there are US troops in Iraq. Never mind all the evidence to the contrary - I don't support Operation Iraqi Freedom, so I don't think it exists. And even if it did, the US "army" doesn't fit my private definition of "army" [Crawls back under rock].
Tell that to my husband, Jimbo, who served on active duty for 18 months in the US Army.

You're too good a debater to resort to that kind of statement.


From MST3K's spoof of "Hercules Unchained"--heard as Roman medic soldiers carry off an unconscious Greek Hercules on a 1950's Army green canvas stretcher: "Hi, we're IX-I-I. Did somebody dial IX-I-I?"

Read The Adventures of Jolee Bindo and see the amazing Peep Surgery
Story WIP: The Dragonfighters
My blog: Confessions of a Geeky Mom--Latest post: Security Alerts!
Love Star Trek AND gaming? Check out Lotus Fleet.

Jae Onasi is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 08-29-2006, 04:43 AM   #119
Dagobahn Eagle
First Strike Tester
 
Dagobahn Eagle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Bergen, Norway
Posts: 3,513
Current Game: First Strike
I thought it would be abundantly clear that I was being sarcastic. Of course the US invaded and occupies Iraq. Of course it's an Army.

What I'm trying to get across is that changing definitions (ie. "Torture") and failing to acknowledge outright facts (ie. people are being tortured in Guantanamo) is not a good way of debating. It's as fallacious as me re-defining "occupation", "invasion", "war", and "army" (which I don't!) to deny the existance of Operation Iraqi Freedom, simply because I don't like it.

The definition of torture is old, from before the US torture at Guantanamo, and the right-wing didn't seem to have much of a problem with it. Then when the Guantanamo prison guards are caught red-handed at it, with orders from above, suddenly the right-wings go "oh, that's your definition of torture" and suddenly the definition is changed.

Just out of curiousity, what is "your camp's" definition of torture anyway?

Quote:
Wow, another biased source.
Everyone who speaks up on something is biased by definition. Good luck finding an objective person with an opinion. Don't look at whether or not they're biased, look at whether or not they're credible.

As for the statement, I can't for the life of me understand why you disagree with it. Are you saying that the Middle-Easterners are so macho and hard-skinned that they think torture is OK? Guess again (newsflash: They don't like being tortured, bombed, and occupied, even "mildly"). Are you saying that everyone else in the world thinks the torture is acceptable? Think again (most of the world looks at Guantanamo as a Hell-hole).

What exactly are you implying when you say that the Guantanamo torture is not used as a recruitment tool by the US's enemies?

Quote:
Well at least I know my population wasn't complicit in the wholescale slaughter of Jewish people just 60 years ago. Sure it wasn't the US's reason for going to war but it wasn't going on in our backyard. Oftentimes Nazi occupied territories saw their own people rounding up and in some cases killing jews.

This was just a short while back.
I don't see what that disgrace of old has to do with the level of US military mercy? If you're implying that I can't speak up because of what a small number of my country's grandparent generation did, I beg to differ.

Quote:
Yes there is a bias against the United States and we all know that a 'bias' is a bad thing because the world is not black and white.
Read my post again. I didn't say there isn't a bias against the USA. I'm saying that it's not the bias that's causing the resentment against the torture in Guantanamo. Trust me, they'd be against it if it was the UK or Canadians doing it.

I'm sure that it's convenient, given America's history of being hated, to just pull the Anti-Americans card when attacked for something, but in this case it just does not fly.

Quote:
Terrorism is the use of violence against civilians to foment political/religious change in a given society. One can see this process in action if he looks back at the Madrid bombings, Islamic terrorism won big time that day and sighed a breath of relief.
How's that a reply to what I posted?

Quote:
[...] Capitulation is a hallmark of European history.
Not only can I not see where that came from (it doesn't seem to be related to anything discussed here), it's also dead wrong and pretty much only a flame.


Last edited by Dagobahn Eagle; 08-29-2006 at 06:00 AM.
Dagobahn Eagle is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 08-29-2006, 08:32 PM   #120
Jae Onasi
Antiquis temporibus, nati tibi similes in rupibus ventosissimis exponebantur ad necem
 
Jae Onasi's Avatar
 
Status: Super Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 10,912
Current Game: Guild Wars 2, VtMB, TOR
Alderaan News Holopics contributor Helpful! LucasCast staff Veteran Fan Fic Author 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dagobahn Eagle
I thought it would be abundantly clear that I was being sarcastic. Of course the US invaded and occupies Iraq. Of course it's an Army.
No, actually, it wasn't clear. I'm not entirely familiar with your writing style at this time and without facial cues, sarcasm is hard to carry off.

I haven't been to Gitmo to find out if there's torture there, have you? Anything we say is guesses and speculation at best, and rumor-mongering at worst. We don't have enough hard facts to know the truth, and the only people who do aren't talking in public.

I suspect the truth is somewhere in between the 'nothing bad's happening at all' and 'OMG, they're being tortured right and left!' Fights happen in jails all the time, and the people who are at Gitmo right now are enemy combattants/POWs/nom du jour. They're people who've fought in battle. I don't expect them to be complacent pacifist good little boys 100% of the time when they've been soldiers. I even expect to see them try to fight their captors and each other. And I expect most of our soldiers to be professionals and treat them with some respect, but I recognize that if a fight breaks out, our soldiers are going to act. I also understand that a lot of our soldiers are passionate about protecting our country, and they aren't going to put up with any crap from prisoners. Some of them are even going to go overboard in their desire to protect their fellow soldiers and their country.
So, if there's torture going on, I doubt there's much of it. And any allegations of torture need to be investigated, and if it's happening, dealt with appropriately


From MST3K's spoof of "Hercules Unchained"--heard as Roman medic soldiers carry off an unconscious Greek Hercules on a 1950's Army green canvas stretcher: "Hi, we're IX-I-I. Did somebody dial IX-I-I?"

Read The Adventures of Jolee Bindo and see the amazing Peep Surgery
Story WIP: The Dragonfighters
My blog: Confessions of a Geeky Mom--Latest post: Security Alerts!
Love Star Trek AND gaming? Check out Lotus Fleet.

Jae Onasi is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Post a new thread. Add a reply to this thread. Indicate all threads in this forum as read. Subscribe to this forum. RSS feed: this forum RSS feed: all forums
Go Back   LucasForums > Network > JediKnight Series > Community > Senate Chambers > FOX News

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:41 PM.

LFNetwork, LLC ©2002-2011 - All rights reserved.
Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.