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Old 09-19-2006, 05:30 AM   #81
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I think that Sidious underestimated Mace as a lightsaber combatant, and I'll accept that he genuinely got bested in that regard. However, he definitely made himself look much weaker than he was just before Anakin showed up. Even without a lightsaber, the Sith Lord wouldn't scramble along the floor helplessly then beg for mercy.

Plus, he clearly was holding back with the lightning a bit. IIRC, I think I recall Palpatine mentioning something about UNNLLIMMETTED POOOWWWEEEERRRRRR!!!!!

So as far as the saber duel goes, Mace actually gained the upper hand, but as a whole fight, Mace wouldn't have won. And Palpatine very skillfully manuevered the entire situation to look perfet for Anakin.

Just think of what would have happened if Sidious and Mace's positions ahd been reversed, with with Sidious standing over an unarmed Mace Windu, threatening him with a glowing red saber at his neck. How would that have effeted Anakin I wonder?


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Old 09-19-2006, 09:53 AM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nintendork
Palpatine could've easily killed Mace though, he was just convincing Anakin to help him to more easily turn him to the dark side.
This is pretty speculative; I don't know about you, but I'd think that if a person has a lightsaber centimeters away from another person's face, that person can kill the other one pretty fast if he wants to....
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Old 09-19-2006, 05:56 PM   #83
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How do you know Palpatine didn't let himself get into a position like that? I mean, look how easily he killed the other three Jedi. Sure, Mace is better, but I don't think Mace could've easily just killed three Jedi the way Palpatine did easily. He definately would've been Palpatine's greatest match, though.


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Old 11-09-2006, 03:18 PM   #84
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Well my opinion is that Sidious let him win because he sensed Anakin approaching that is why Windu make his last mistake because he turned Anakin's appoitmend as a Jedi Master and in EP I he turned the boy down then he make his first mistake.


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Old 11-13-2006, 08:44 PM   #85
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Mace Windu used Vaapad style so it is possible that Windu won the fight but do not forget that Sidious killed Jedi with ease my personal opinion is that Sidious let Windu defeat him so he can twist Anakin further down the dark path


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Old 11-22-2006, 10:57 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by Nintendork
Uhhh, pretty sure he is the chosen one...

Why does everyone think Mace Windu is some super-natural all-powerful being?
well he is supposed to be a jedi master

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Old 11-22-2006, 11:34 AM   #87
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So are a lot of other Jedi...

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Old 11-23-2006, 07:45 PM   #88
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I still believe that Mace won fair and square, everyone knows that Mace was one of the baddest dudes in the order. I think that he was the only Jedi who was capable of fighting Sidious, mostly becuase of his Vaapad style and his natural dark side traits.
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Old 01-06-2007, 07:04 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JawaJoey
I think that Sidious underestimated Mace as a lightsaber combatant, and I'll accept that he genuinely got bested in that regard. However, he definitely made himself look much weaker than he was just before Anakin showed up. Even without a lightsaber, the Sith Lord wouldn't scramble along the floor helplessly then beg for mercy.

Plus, he clearly was holding back with the lightning a bit. IIRC, I think I recall Palpatine mentioning something about UNNLLIMMETTED POOOWWWEEEERRRRRR!!!!!

So as far as the saber duel goes, Mace actually gained the upper hand, but as a whole fight, Mace wouldn't have won . And Palpatine very skillfully manuevered the entire situation to look perfet for Anakin.

Just think of what would have happened if Sidious and Mace's positions ahd been reversed, with with Sidious standing over an unarmed Mace Windu, threatening him with a glowing red saber at his neck. How would that have effeted Anakin I wonder?
I agree with everything you said except for that line. I think Mace clearly won; only Anakin's intervention saved Palpy.
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Old 01-07-2007, 12:32 AM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mivoci1
Mace Windu used Vaapad style so it is possible that Windu won the fight but do not forget that Sidious killed Jedi with ease my personal opinion is that Sidious let Windu defeat him so he can twist Anakin further down the dark path
Yeah whatever, mivoci1!
Mace Windu whip that coward ass, Sidious.
And if he didn't trust that weak punk, Anakin, he would've whip Anakin ass, too.
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Old 01-07-2007, 12:06 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by windu6
Yeah whatever, mivoci1!
Mace Windu whip that coward ass, Sidious.
And if he didn't trust that weak punk, Anakin, he would've whip Anakin ass, too.
mace would not stand a chance against ankakin when he's darth vader any way back to the point sidious let mace defeat him so anikan would full turn to the dark side and after ani cuts mace hand off sidious pushs mace away with powerful thunder bolt and for some one who is weak could not do that.
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Old 01-07-2007, 01:34 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by darth kav
mace would not stand a chance against ankakin when he's darth vader any way back to the point sidious let mace defeat him so anikan would full turn to the dark side and after ani cuts mace hand off sidious pushs mace away with powerful thunder bolt and for some one who is weak could not do that.
Yeah, whatever!
Believe that if you must.
Mace would've kick both Anakin and Sidious ass if it was no movie.
Sidious is weak and a coward; if he could had defeated Mace he would've and not whine like a punk for Anakin's help.
Sidious got his ass kicked, no question.
Anakin flashy fighting style is no match for Mace Windu's quick and deadly lightsaber strikes.
And Darth Vader, well we don't know that for sure.
But by playing the Ep. III: ROTS video game and looking at Vader fighting style,
Mace would have kick his ass as Vader I bet, with his quick and deadly fighting style in that game.
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Old 01-07-2007, 02:18 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by windu6
Yeah, whatever!
Believe that if you must.
Mace would've kick both Anakin and Sidious ass if it was no movie.
Sidious is weak and a coward; if he could had defeated Mace he would've and not whine like a punk for Anakin's help.
Sidious got his ass kicked, no question.
Anakin flashy fighting style is no match for Mace Windu's quick and deadly lightsaber strikes.
And Darth Vader, well we don't know that for sure.
But by playing the Ep. III: ROTS video game and looking at Vader fighting style,
Mace would have kick his ass as Vader I bet, with his quick and deadly fighting style in that game.
yer but in the video game vader's blows are powerful and deadlly but slow but mace's are a bit faster and a lot weaker so vader will kick his ass.

and anakins are to fast for a old timer like mace it proven in the film he slice's mace hand off before he can even moves
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Old 01-07-2007, 02:47 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by darth kav
yer but in the video game vader's blows are powerful and deadlly but slow but mace's are a bit faster and a lot weaker so vader will kick his ass.
The slow blows of Vader, works to Mace's advantage in combat; Mace has the quickest slash strikes that are also very powerful.
But that was in the game, but the quick slash with a hot lightsaber would quickly had ended Vader if it was for real.
Vader strikes takes to long, Mace would've quickly dispense with him in that time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by darth kav
and anakins are to fast for a old timer like mace it proven in the film he slice's mace hand off before he can even moves
That is because, Mace had put to much trust in Anakin, he knew Anakin had conflicting feelings that later lead him to the darkside, but Mace decided to trust him, he didn't expect Anakin would betray him in that scene.

Also that was meant to happen anyway, everybody knew who is a Star Wars fan that Mace was going to loose anyway, when that scene arrived.
But if Mace was given a fair chance, he would've quickly dispatch Anakin, Anakin's over confidence also, would've quickly done him in.

Last edited by windu6; 01-07-2007 at 03:42 PM.
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Old 01-07-2007, 03:04 PM   #95
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I completely agree, windu6, Mace beat Sidious fair and square and if he had seen Anakins attack coming he would have beaten him as well.



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Old 01-14-2007, 01:41 PM   #96
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I don't know about that Mace vs Sidious duel...
To me they seemed equal. I don't know who would have won if Anakin had not intervened but I believe when Palpatine sensed Anakin coming, he deliberatly "lost" the duel. I don't claim he would have won otherwise, but especially that scene where Palpatine rolls around on the floor, totally helpless, makes me think he lost on purpose, to twist Anakin to the dark side.

Oh, and Anakin would not stand a chance in single combat against either Sidious or Mace.
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Old 01-14-2007, 10:57 PM   #97
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I'm pretty sure Sidious could kick Mace's @$$. Think about it, if Yoda couldn't defeat him, Mace definately couldn't.


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Old 01-14-2007, 11:23 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by AkumaSF
I'm pretty sure Sidious could kick Mace's @$$. Think about it, if Yoda couldn't defeat him, Mace definately couldn't.
Yoda's spirit was broken. Hard to use that as a comparison.
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Old 01-15-2007, 12:48 AM   #99
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Originally Posted by AkumaSF
I'm pretty sure Sidious could kick Mace's @$$. Think about it, if Yoda couldn't defeat him, Mace definately couldn't.
You're sadly mistaken!
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Old 01-15-2007, 04:00 AM   #100
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Heh, hardly any room for debate. Sidious was the stronger one by far.

It seemed like a very strange coincidence that he lost his lightsaber at that time. The perfect time, in fact, for Anakin to come in. No, he decided that should happen. Seems quite strange that he would whine about being too weak to do anything one second, and then be able to blast someone out a window with Force lightning the next.

Everything seemed far too coincidental to have happened by chance.


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Old 01-15-2007, 04:41 AM   #101
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Originally Posted by Emperor Devon
Heh, hardly any room for debate. Sidious was the stronger one by far.

It seemed like a very strange coincidence that he lost his lightsaber at that time. The perfect time, in fact, for Anakin to come in. No, he decided that should happen. Seems quite strange that he would whine about being too weak to do anything one second, and then be able to blast someone out a window with Force lightning the next.

Everything seemed far too coincidental to have happened by chance.
Well, of course you are going to cheer for Sidious, I mean look at your avatar.
No question who's your fan, Devon.
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Old 01-15-2007, 07:18 AM   #102
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Sidious would still kick Mace's @$$. Sidious id the perfect epitamy of the Dark Side, just like Yoda is for the Light Side. If you can tell me how Mace would win, i would eat my words, literally.

And look at you Windu6. Mace is in you avy/sig. It's no wonder you're rooting for Mace.

And another thing, why do most people think Mace is the most powerful Jedi, what about Yoda? I'm pretty certain Yoda would pwn Mace.


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Old 01-15-2007, 02:50 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by AkumaSF
Sidious would still kick Mace's @$$. Sidious id the perfect epitamy of the Dark Side, just like Yoda is for the Light Side. If you can tell me how Mace would win, i would eat my words, literally.
I was basing my assertion on Mace fighting style in the Ep. III game, but since Sidious wasn't available in that game, of course I can't truly compare them yet, until I can play a Jedi game where you can fight with Sidious.But, Mace Windu's Vaapad Jedi fighting form is so deadly and quick I think if he was given a fair chance he would have properly defeated Darth Sidious.
Do anybody know Darth Sidious Jedi fighting form?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AkumaSF
And look at you Windu6. Mace is in you avy/sig. It's no wonder you're rooting for Mace.
Yeah, you got me there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AkumaSF
And another thing, why do most people think Mace is the most powerful Jedi, what about Yoda? I'm pretty certain Yoda would pwn Mace.
Well, base on the Clone Wars cartoon with Yoda the power Yoda show with him lifting and destroying droid landing ships on Coruscant, one would say he can kick Mace Windu ass.
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Old 01-16-2007, 02:21 AM   #104
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Fluke or fair fight?

More like a poorly done scene but my in-universe opinion tells me that it was a fair fight and Sidious lost.

But I also think of course that Sidious meant to lose, feeling that Anakin was coming closer, who knows... from the scene... I really can't tell what his motives are.

I mean if he kills Mace Windu... then what?
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Old 01-17-2007, 05:13 PM   #105
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I mean if he kills Mace Windu... then what?
Tell ani they attacked him? I don't think he got a chance to think on that as mostly he'd be trying to kill him to stay alive...
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Old 01-19-2007, 08:17 PM   #106
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Well Sidious could have easily killed him if he was SMART.

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Old 01-20-2007, 11:44 PM   #107
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^exactly, If Mace and Sidious were put in a fight to the death, no interruptions and they both were aware of the other person's abilities, I think Sidious would win.
So I think Sidious let him win.


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Old 01-21-2007, 05:50 AM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by windu6
I was basing my assertion on Mace fighting style in the Ep. III game, but since Sidious wasn't available in that game, of course I can't truly compare them yet, until I can play a Jedi game where you can fight with Sidious.But, Mace Windu's Vaapad Jedi fighting form is so deadly and quick I think if he was given a fair chance he would have properly defeated Darth Sidious.
Do anybody know Darth Sidious Jedi fighting form?


Well, base on the Clone Wars cartoon with Yoda the power Yoda show with him lifting and destroying droid landing ships on Coruscant, one would say he can kick Mace Windu ass.
I don't think you should base your assumptions on anything other than Episode 3...
You can't base anything on game mechanics. And the clone wars cartoon... aren't all Jedi there like 100 times stronger than in the movies ?
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Old 01-21-2007, 07:05 AM   #109
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Originally Posted by Vaelastraz
I don't think you should base your assumptions on anything other than Episode 3...
You can't base anything on game mechanics.
The game mechanics in the Episode 3 game match and surpass the combat mechanics in the Episode 3 movie.
The combat in that game match the realistic combat in the movie so well I think it is a very good trustworthy source for comparing combat skills of some of the Jedi(like Mace Windu) in Episode III: ROTS movie.
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And the clone wars cartoon... aren't all Jedi there like 100 times stronger than in the movies ?
Yeah, but the Star Wars EU don't ignore the clone wars cartoon; it accept it as connected to the rest of the EU.
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Old 10-03-2007, 05:30 PM   #110
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Well, even if Palpatine was somewhat exaggerating the extent of his injuries, which he probably was, he had definitely been messed up by having all that force lightning deflected back into him. But either way, Mace Windu had already won the fight fair and square, Palpatine was down and he was about to finish him off. If not for Anakin showing up and letting the lies of Palpatine, his erratic emotions and the dark side cloud his judgment, Palpatine would have been finished right there.
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Old 10-03-2007, 08:10 PM   #111
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I think that Mace won the fight. Sidious weakened himself to manipulate Anakin; however, we don't know what would have happened if Sidious was fighting his hardest. Personaaly I think that Mace would have won by a long shot! Mace is one of the best in the entire order for crying out loud!

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Old 10-05-2007, 08:54 PM   #112
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How much damage does this blue lightening do anyway? Vader takes a face shot before he tosses the emperor... light sabers can block it as exhibited in the emperor/Windu duel. It obviously was enough to finish off Vader... Luke could take a certain amount of it, I guess. Unless you're thinking is that the emperor was taking it easy on luke.

I think Windu could indeed take the emperor. It seems to me I remember a story about Mace having not only Jedi training, but Sith training as well. Don't get all over my case because I can't remember where I got the story.. But I do remember talking about it one time. It might be in the books somewhere.. or it might be some idiot sprouting crap on some forum... but the discussion was something along the lines of Mace's light saber color... and how it's purple, red and blue, or Jedi and sith Kaiburr crystal colors... blah, blah, blah. I think the story follows this thinking well. I think his Sith Training would have convinced him that the courts would only work in Palpatine's favor.. and killing him then was the answer, irregardless of Jedi training. I think Windu is more powerful then the movies let on. And I'm no fan of Windu... Well.. let me rephrase that.. Maybe not so much Windu.. as Samuel Jackson's acting in the part.



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Old 10-05-2007, 09:28 PM   #113
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I don't think the lightning "hurt" Luke so much, was because of the special affects at the time the movie was shot. Maybe I am missing something, but that was my guess...

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Old 10-06-2007, 07:52 AM   #114
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I've always imagined that the devastation and pain brought on by Force lightning was determined by who's controlling it. For example, Sidious was torturing Luke in Episode VI, kind of playing with his food before he eats it, so he was allowing Luke to live. When he blasts Yoda with it 20 or so years previously, however, he intentionally wants to catch him off guard and knock the "arrogant" little sucker right off his feet, but not necessarily torture him into submission (probably because Yoda would eventually blast him backwards). When Sidious electrocutes Mace, that's the death blast, what you really get when Sidious wants to kill you. That was especially horrific (especially for Star Wars) because when he has his hands chopped off the audience kind of says, "Oh man, he's dead, no absorbing it this time." One of the best scenes.

As far as lightsaber combat though I think Mace had Sidious owned, but as soon as Anakin shows up Sidious know he's fine.
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Old 10-06-2007, 01:33 PM   #115
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As far as Mace Windu's conduct near the end of the duel, I think he was acting properly. It is true that normally once opponents are clearly defeated that the Jedi would spare the lives of these opponents (for the moment) and the Jedi would then turn the criminals over to the normal Republic civil authorities for trial for their crimes.

But this was a special circumstance. Palpatine had some officials in his pocket, either directly or through his alter ego as Sidious, he had corrupted some parts of the senate and had a certain degree of control over the courts, as well, so that he could effectively corrupt the judicial process. Meaning there was no way to be sure he would be convicted if he went to trial, even though he was guilty as sin. Not to mention the risk that he would use his henchmen to escape from prison before his trial could begin and flee from Coruscant only to go on with his efforts to destabilize the Republic from afar. Or run back to the Chancelor's office, trying to take back control of the Republic, all the while claiming that it was all some plot by the Jedi to take control of the government.

Under those circumstances, considering the number of people that Palpatine had murdered in the war he caused, the fact that he was the sith lord they had been searching for all this time and they finally had him, and that there was a very real possibility that he would escape justice yet again if he were turned over for trial due to his corruption and control of the government, Mace Windu had little choice but to kill him right there. Sometimes it is simply necessary to take swift and decisive action to defeat evil, and this was one of those times when it was necessary to do that. It's a shame, really, the whole thing could have been over with right there. Palpatine's identity as the sith lord and his evil plans fully exposed, his corrupt henchmen dealt with, the war over and the Republic restored to peace, but for Anakin's weakness in resisting the dark side. But eventually, after a long struggle for 20 years, good did triumph over evil.
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Old 10-10-2007, 02:47 AM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garm_bel_iblis
I've always imagined that the devastation and pain brought on by Force lightning was determined by who's controlling it. For example, Sidious was torturing Luke in Episode VI, kind of playing with his food before he eats it, so he was allowing Luke to live. When he blasts Yoda with it 20 or so years previously, however, he intentionally wants to catch him off guard and knock the "arrogant" little sucker right off his feet, but not necessarily torture him into submission (probably because Yoda would eventually blast him backwards). When Sidious electrocutes Mace, that's the death blast, what you really get when Sidious wants to kill you. That was especially horrific (especially for Star Wars) because when he has his hands chopped off the audience kind of says, "Oh man, he's dead, no absorbing it this time." One of the best scenes.

As far as lightsaber combat though I think Mace had Sidious owned, but as soon as Anakin shows up Sidious know he's fine.
Very well thought out!
@Dunedain-- Regardless it isn't the "jedi-way" to kill unarmed oppenents. Sidious was unarmed; therefore, Mace was actually, by my opinion, treading on the darkside by wanting to "end the sith oppression once and for all". He was put in a very difficult situation. If I where mace I personally don't know what I would do. The choice was end Sidious's life and go to the darkside, or let Sidious stand trail (or possibly lose your own life) and stay on the lightside. That is in my opinion a very hard choice to make.

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Old 10-10-2007, 04:44 AM   #117
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I wouldn't call someone who could use force lightning (especially to the degree Sidious could) Unarmed. Mace should have foreseen Anakins betrayal, and killed them both


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Old 10-10-2007, 05:59 PM   #118
TripHammer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adamqd
Mace should have foreseen Anakins betrayal, and killed them both
Indeed. Mace didn't trust Anakin... which is why he told him to stay at the temple... so perhaps Mace did see a betrayal in Anakin's nature... or perhaps he sensed enough confusion from Anakin to take the precaution of telling him to stay behind. Either way... as soon as Anakin showed up he became a danger and proved to Mace that indeed he couldn't be trusted. He should have been a target from that point on. But I don't think Mace would have been able to take Anakin. It would have been an interesting duel though.


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Old 10-11-2007, 08:54 AM   #119
PoiuyWired
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Well, it doesn't matter really... If Mace did kill palpy he would be turned darkside... Well he would still take over the senate as the savior, and Yoda would have a really hard time beating him, if even possable.

Anakin would certainly join him.

The difference being there are more Jedis left in the way. So instead of a smooth transition to the Empire we get a total civilwar.
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Old 10-23-2007, 11:07 PM   #120
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What in the world makes you think Mace Windu would have gone over to the dark side if he killed Palpatine? Jedi are supposed to kill sith lords (or others who go around mass murdering innocent people), that's the point of the duel if the sith refuses to surrender. For the reasons stated in my post above, the courts simply could not be trusted to convict and punish Palpatine for his crimes, and he certainly couldn't be allowed to escape to murder even more people. Therefore he had to be killed to stop him. Mace Windu didn't really have much choice under the circumstances.
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