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Old 09-12-2006, 11:47 PM   #1
Kurgan
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To those who own the new DVDs - How is the Sound?

I have a question for anyone with the new "Limited Edition" 2006 sets: How is the sound?

Specifically, in the "theatrical version" DVDs you have, how do the lines go?


Does Luke say to R2D2 (ESB) "You're lucky you don't taste very good" or does he say "You were lucky to get out of there" ?

Do the Stormtroopers say both "Close the Blast Doors" AND "Open the Blast Doors" in the scene in Star Wars where they are chasing Han and company through the corridors?

In the same movie, do the Stormtroopers, while looking for the doors in Mos Eisley say "the door's locked, move along to the next one" or "it's secure, move along to the next one"?

In the space battle over the Death Star, does Luke say "Blast it BIGGS where are you" or does he say "Blast it WEDGE where are you"?


In Return of the Jedi, when Han is about to shoot the tentacle wrapped around Lando's leg by the Sarlacc, does he say "Don't worry... trust me" or "Don't worry, I can see a lot better"?

Do we hear the "Force theme" fanfar as the X-Wings attack the Death Star for the first time? (after Red Leader says "...to start our attack run.." iirc).

Thanks in advance!


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Old 09-14-2006, 10:37 AM   #2
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Guess people haven't watched 'em yet.


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Old 09-14-2006, 10:58 AM   #3
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I hope they do soon, I'm looking forward to their answers as much as you are.


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Old 09-14-2006, 09:08 PM   #4
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I think he means the new theatrical versions. There's no changes in the other dvds, they're just the 2004 ones.


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Old 09-14-2006, 10:07 PM   #5
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Yes, I'm talking exclusively about the english language track of the "bonus disc" theatrical versions. Like many of us here, I already own the 2004 versions, so they are 100% identical to the ones you folks who bought the new set have.

The only difference between the 3 movies on the four disc widescreen set I have now and the 2006 set you just bought is that your discs have a big "FBI" logo on the front and copyright warning, and the "number" logo is in gold (instead of silver) and you have the words "widescreen" across the top (this is all on the face design of the disc, our's is basically just the image, the title with the silver roman numerals and tiny white text for the basic copyright info).

The 2004 content has not changed in any way. I'm not asking about that, but the NEW stuff.. that is, the theatrical versions.

Please, enlighten us folks that don't have it yet so we know what we're getting...


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Old 09-14-2006, 10:51 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurgan
Please, enlighten us folks that don't have it yet so we know what we're getting...
Yes, please, because I want to be able to compare them with my 1995 VHS trilogy to see if there's any difference, or what differences there are. If not then I probably won't bother getting them but if they are different (favorably ) then I may go out and buy them.


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Old 09-14-2006, 11:08 PM   #7
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Well we know there is ONE visual difference, the opening crawl of Star Wars (1977), but audio differences, yeah, somebody with the set, please stop being lazy and tell us what the lines are in those scenes! (That's the beauty of DVD, you can skip right to it and listen).

Sorry for being over-anxious... time is of the essence people! Help out your fellow fans...


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Old 09-15-2006, 10:18 AM   #8
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Indeed, it's a limited time only so we need to know now! XD I forgot about how they changed the opening crawl but if all the other audio changes are the same as my vhs trilogy set then I probably won't bother because I can just turn my vhs tapes to dvds, the quality probably isn't that much worse.


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Old 09-15-2006, 01:21 PM   #9
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If you want to see what the quality looks like (compared to other versions) please go here:

http://www.aptirrelevance.com/otscreenshots/ (note: for reference only, I don't personally have these to compare, but it seems reliable enough)


Now, what's the story on the sound?

(Here I'm especially looking at all the odd folks who pre-ordered or rushed out and bought this the instant it hit store shelves and still haven't actually watched disc 2 yet...!)


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Old 09-15-2006, 05:05 PM   #10
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I really think those sound like the originals. Here's one Kurgan may have overlooked:

In Empire Strikes Back, soon before Threepio's blasted, does somebody say something along the lines of "Hey! What are you doing?" or does he just get blasted without anyone saying anything?


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Old 09-15-2006, 05:43 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chase Windu
I haven't watched the theatricals all the way through yet but I did go and check these things Kurgan mentioned:


"you're lucky you don't taste very good"


"open the blast door"


"door's locked, move along to the next one"


"blast it BIGGS, where are you"


He doesn't say "Don't worry." He says "It's all right. Trust me. Don't move."


Is this ANH or ROTJ? I remember the line but forget which movie.
Okay I misquoted some, but I got the gist of it. Good, this sounds like it's the version I was hoping for! I was a bit worried for awhile that they'd just give us the soundtrack from the THX Enhanced trilogy and hope nobody would notice... glad I was wrong.

The "force theme" part I'm talking about is in the original Star Wars, the battle of Yavin.

If you'll compare the scene in the 2004 edition, the sounds of the X-Wing engines totally drown out the music in that initial attack run (as the X-Wings spiral out one by one towards the trench). However switch the audio track from the Spanish or English to the FRENCH language audio track during that scene.. suddenly you hear dramatic music! (instead of just engine noise). Now you know what to look for, compare the same scene in the 1977 version. Is it music, or engine noise?


Another question... in Star Wars, when Luke, Han, Chewie, Obi-Wan and the droids are in the control room (right before Obi-Wan decides to go "alone" to disable the tractor beam), does Threepio make a short explanation speech about the tractor beam "coupling in seven locations" or something like that? I think in the early versions that dialogue is left out.


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Old 09-15-2006, 05:59 PM   #12
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Well, I'm relieved, because I was sure it was gonna be the original versions until Kurgan here started talking about all this 1993 crud, then I started to get worried.


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Old 09-15-2006, 07:00 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nintendork
In Empire Strikes Back, soon before Threepio's blasted, does somebody say something along the lines of "Hey! What are you doing?" or does he just get blasted without anyone saying anything?
What about this?


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Old 09-15-2006, 07:17 PM   #14
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Sorry, just wondering... thanks for clarification though.


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Old 09-15-2006, 07:59 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurgan
Good, this sounds like it's the version I was hoping for! I was a bit worried for awhile that they'd just give us the soundtrack from the THX Enhanced trilogy and hope nobody would notice... glad I was wrong.
Same here And I was looking at that link for the screenshot comparisons you posted Kurgan and you can definitely tell the 2004 dvds from the "bonus disk" version, but that version seems better than some of those 1995 shots so maybe it is worth it to get it.


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Old 09-16-2006, 03:41 AM   #16
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Yeah, it just looks slightly better, but still. Even though they could have done tons better, I want to have the best quality digital version of the original original trilogy, so that cinches it for me (even if I'm just paying into Lucas's money machine! But I'm definately not getting any 30th anniversary crap, that'll be purely netflix fodder if/when the time comes).

They say there's some scratches and some artifacting (when you freeze frame... not flaws in the actual film but flaws created by the Dolby Noise Reduction done to the laser disc masters which weren't corrected), but it's supposedly to be hardly noticably when you watch.

You can definately make out the film grain in this version, but it doesn't quite look so overly sharpened as Episode I was. The other versions seem a bit too fuzzy, and you lose detail, even if it appears smoother.

The other great thing is, you know fans will take this version and use it to create even better fan edits!


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Old 09-16-2006, 04:10 AM   #17
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Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chase Windu
Well, if any of you ladies do want the 1992-'95 versions just look around on the net for the laserdisc rips because thats where I, I mean a friend of mine, got them and put them on DVDs.


C-3PO doesn't give the 7 locations thing. They just say something about the main power station or something like that. I'm too lazy to check for the engine/music thing but if I were you, kurgan, I wouldn't really worry about the force theme thing since everything else seems to be original.
I think it's safe to say it's there, given all the other pieces are in place. It was only removed on the English/Spanish tracks in 2004 as a "deliberate creative decision," after all!

You just gave me a mental picture of a bunch of old grannies sitting around the couch watching Star Wars and knitting (perhaps knitting little yoda jammies).


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Old 09-16-2006, 04:12 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nintendork
Well, I'm relieved, because I was sure it was gonna be the original versions until Kurgan here started talking about all this 1993 crud, then I started to get worried.
Well, with all the crap they've pulled and all the versions floating around there, I wasn't gonna take any chances.

Now I'm certain these are the DVD's I'm looking for...

And hey, whatever shortcomings (not an excuse for Lucas, just a fallback option), there's always the fan edits to make up the difference, as usual...


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Old 09-16-2006, 08:53 AM   #19
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Can't wait to get paid and go out and buy those...I'm a sucker for limited edition stuff!



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Old 09-16-2006, 10:28 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chase Windu
Yeah but the only fan edit I'm interested in is the original Phantom Edit. Which, BTW, I still haven't seen. Anybody know how much better it made TPM?
I haven't seen that either, but I also would be interested in seeing it.


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Old 09-16-2006, 02:11 PM   #21
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They cut easily cut Jar Jar out of the whole film, it wouldn't take anything away from the story.



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Old 09-16-2006, 02:23 PM   #22
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The original Phantom Edit cut out a few unnecessary scenes, speeding up the pace of the film.

Jar Jar is sort of necessary, since he leads the Jedi to the Gungan city to get the Bongo sub to escape to the city of Theed.

The later Edits are much better, as they give the Gungans/Neimodians an alien language with subtitles, so no annoying voices (though technically all they did was give reverse speech). The subtitles are also different so that the plot changes (the opening crawl also changes, so it's not over taxes, but slave trading). Much more interesting, though you have to go with the other edits of the other movies too since the plot changes. The original edit was based on the VHS tapes, the later ones have the DVD material to work with (including deleted scenes) and so end up being much better, IMHO.

A fan edit of Star Wars I saw that I really liked gave Jabba new lines (you could also just skip the scene he's in entirely), so that he came down harder on Han, and thus seemed more threatening. Plus they edited the Death Star plan schematic so it actually matched the Death Star model we see onscreen. That one was cool!


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Old 09-18-2006, 02:34 AM   #23
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as you requested...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chase Windu
I'd kind of like to see that. Have any pics of the D. Star plans?

I think it would be cool to see SW in black and white but lightsabers, laser blasts, ship engines(i.e. the blue out the back of the falcon), force lightning, and things of that nature in color. Similar to Sin City. Maybe even downgrade the video a bit, add a slight blur and scratches, make the sound sound old and scratchy, and make it look like an old movie on film. I think that would be a cool.

Okay here it is, from the "Darth Editous" Edition of ANH (a fan edit):

Fan Edited Death Star Schematic from ANH

**Note: the above pic was not taken by me but by the author of that edit, and this is not to be confused with the official DVD cuts**

Probably overall the most impressive fan edit of a Star Wars movie I've ever seen. A lot of common sense "why didn't they just do that" fixes and improvements.

You can read more about his fan edit over at originaltrilogy.com forums. Obviously, we won't discuss where to get such edits, even though it should be perfectly fine for people who already own the official DVDs.


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Old 09-18-2006, 03:31 PM   #24
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Yeah I hope they'll still have it when I get money dammit, cause they're like #1 in the DVD charts here...
My tv in my room is 4:3 anyways, so it would fill my screen nicely ha!



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Old 09-19-2006, 02:15 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chase Windu
I think people wanting the original theatrical editions will enjoy these limited DVDs even though the video quality isn't all that great when compared to the cleaned up 2004 editions and isn't anamorphic. Still really enjoyable and a nice thing to have sitting on a shelf of a Star Wars fan.
If you want the tin, Kurgan, from Best Buy I real that they have a limited number of them at each store. So if you want copies of the movies and the collector's tin you may wan to act fairly quickly because it would seem like a hot item.
Arguably though the video quality is SUPERIOR. The bit rates according to one website are comparable to the 2004 editions. Star Wars is slightly less than the 2004 edition, ROTJ is a lot less, but ESB is actually higher (the OOT is higher than the SE).

The colors in the 2004 version are wrong in many scenes (often extremely so, like the messed up lightsabers and the orange skin tones, the blue tints in any scene with white in it, etc).

I don't really care about the tin, otherwise I would have gone for it.

The main problem with the lack of anamorphic is that the subtitles get pushed off the screen when you use the zoom function, according to many people who have widescreen TVs (they've reported). You might say "well who cares, I remember what Greedo and Jabba are saying," but remember closed captioning for the hearing impaired? They're out of luck unless they watch it in the small frame (which negates the whole point of having a widescreen display in the first place).

The film grain is SUPPOSED TO BE THERE. It was only removed in the 2004 release to make it "match" the "look" of the all digital, video look (no longer film) Episodes II and III. Compare the original Matrix DVD which has film grain clearly in it, vs. the "new" Matrix DVD, which was "digitally cleaned" to look like video (rather than film) to match the digital prints of Matrix Reloaded and Revolutions.

Some people may hate grain, but let's face it, the vast majority of movies until recently have had it. It's what you saw in the theaters. If you're using to watching TV shows instead, you might have forgotten that!

Frankly, I don't see the need for the originals to have had their opening text altered to "match" the later movies. But that's Lucas' attempt to tie the movies together in superficial ways (rather than the more important ways of story and character development). Oh well. Sorry to go off on another rant there...

But really, I think these DVDs (at least what I've seen thus far in the first 1/3rd of Star Wars) are superior to the LD transfers (though only over the best ones by a bit), and in many ways "truer" to the Star Wars of cinema than the 2004 editions. Had Lowry Digital not screwed up the colors and sound in their restoration, I might not be making such a point of the distinction, but it's definately true.


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Old 09-20-2006, 09:19 AM   #26
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I still feel like this set (which I now own btw), is incomplete (from what it could have been, like including deleted scenes and other extras). But I also feel it is "broken" from what it should have been...

Had the following been done, I'd be perfectly satisfied with this set (I say this because people have accused myself and others of "never being satisified" with a Star Wars release):

2004 Editions (though I dislike many of the changes, it is currently "broken" now for me):

1 - Fix the color balance/timing/saturation and brightness/contrast issues
2 - Fix the sound issues in ANH

"Theatrical Bonus Editions"

1 - Make it anamorphic widescreen ("enhanced" for 16x9 displays)

(I wouldn't even demand the "mono" track as an option, despite the fact that this would make it TRULY the "theatrical edition".. I mean they went to all the trouble of re-creating the crawl, why not the soundtrack as well? It might not sound as good as the Dolby 2.0, but it surely exists, if nowhere else, then on the old rental VHS, right?)

Had they done that, I wouldn't be nitpicking and complaining so much (and I imagine most fans wouldn't be either). Deleted scenes and all that can go on a future bonus disc. But these are the main things I think that prevented this set from being a true "5 star release" worthy of the Star Wars name (and all the hype, since 2004).

I really feel embarrassed for the folks at the Ranch too for the 2004 versions. This was supposed to be George's "ultimate" version of Star Wars (until 2007 that is!), and yet it has so many obvious mistakes in it. They just didn't devote the time necessary to do it right. Now it seems like they are just trying to get as many copies of it sold as possible to recoup any losses before they re-release it again. The trouble is, how many people are going to be willing to re-buy all six movies in order to see the fixes to those three in another 8 months?


Anyway, I have yet to go through Empire, but Star Wars, and Return of the Jedi (theatrical) thus far are fantastic. If there's anything anyone wants me to check out for them, let me know, and I can check it on my new set.


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Old 09-21-2006, 06:37 AM   #27
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Yeah. It's just the feeling that I KNOW this could be better, and the suspicion that somebody did this just to spite fans while still taking their money, because they know we'll just buy the next version that comes out. Oh well. It is the best version of the non-SE's out so far, and that makes it worth buying but still. We can dream, can't we?

It's also annoying that SINCE this is Star Wars, we often lose site of the bigger picture. Other DVD fans don't put up with this kind of stuff without a fight!


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Old 09-21-2006, 02:11 PM   #28
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They just don't buy it.

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Old 09-21-2006, 08:48 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prime
They just don't buy it.
Exactly! We either buy it, and go "omg this sucks, Lucas molested my inner child" or we buy it and go "well, it's not that bad, it could be worse, I am still grateful to Lucas, he's my daddy, etc"

It's crack, man!


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Old 10-02-2006, 11:23 AM   #30
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Last night, I bought 'Return of the Jedi'. I felt that Episode VI's edits (Little Shop of Horror's Sarlacc, Sabastian Shaw Replacement, and Ewok Ending) took away from the vintage side of the Star Wars. When it came to the 2004 edits for Episode IV and V, I thought they really added something to the trilogy. I don't agree with all the edits made to Episode IV and V, but they didn't bother me as much.

As for the enhancements and sound, I find the changes weak at best. I think Lucas could have taken the 2004 versions (with the digital sound, matte fixes, color clean up), and just reverted the movies back to the original. Therefore, we got the original versions with fresh colors, modles, etc...



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Old 10-03-2006, 08:46 AM   #31
Kurgan
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I was watching Star Wars synched with somebody's audio recording of the mono mix from 1977 (hard to synch because it's just an audio file playing in media player, while I can't mute powerdvd's sound stream only, so I have to just minimize it's sound and crank up MPC's sound). Very interesting. It's very "raw" you get alternate takes of lines, Beru's old voice (which sounds more natural, like an actual farm hand and not some soap opera actress, though still feminine), Vader's old voice (different modulation so he sounds more like JEJ being arrogant through a filter), some of the old lines by Stormtroopers, etc. Oddly enough the "gunshot" sounds for the ST Rifles came from this mix, and the "Close the Blast doors!" and "an interruption at one of the terminals will allow the ship to leave" etc. Even the scene of Chewie scaring the mouse droid is in there (I guess that wasn't removed until later releases).

I'm not actually all the way through it yet sequentially. I just got to the part where they put on the stormtrooper gear and arrive at the detention block.

It desynches a few times throughout though and has to be resynched up. I'd love to listen to this with a proper fan edit where it's synched with the visuals at proper volume. But still was a cool experience the first time around. Of course when I saw Star Wars in theaters, it was most like the 1981 version with "A New Hope" and the 35mm mix. Now to find the six channel stereo mix (that was released FIRST in theaters!).

There were three sound mixes, after all, and the DVDs only give us one. Well I should amend that.. actually we do get the mono mix on french and/or spanish tracks, but this dolby 2.0 (which I presume is closest to the theatrical 35mm stereo release) soundtrack for english.


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Old 10-04-2006, 08:31 AM   #32
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http://homepage.ntlworld.com/russdawson/mono/

This site explains the differences, with clips.


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