lfnetwork.com mark read register faq members calendar

Thread: The experience system & skills and abilities thread
Thread Tools Display Modes
Post a new thread. Add a reply to this thread. Indicate all threads in this forum as read. Subscribe to this forum. RSS feed: this forum RSS feed: all forums
Old 10-08-2006, 07:33 AM   #1
Maxstate
I forgot.... what?
 
Maxstate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: ;o ;p :eek:
Posts: 2,090
Thumbs up The experience system & skills and abilities thread

Saber Attack 1 = 70% Dp damage, no benefits. Only Yellow.
Saber Attack 2 = 100% Dp Damage. 1 new style you can choose.
Saber Attack 3 = At SBA3 you get to use power slashes, the previous 2 do not have them. One extra style to choose from.

So with all 3 you end up having the same power and damage you have now, but with 2 less styles. When you get the specialisation skills in it'll be a blast playing with your own custom warrior that only has the styles he actually trained in and likes. No more "all jedi have all styles" crap.

Saber defense 1: 30% more DP damage taken. No deflection skill.
Saber Defense 2: 10% more DP damage taken. Every fifth shot and shots that are hit by a saberslash should be deflected.
Saber Defense 3: Regular DP damage, every third shot is deflected.
In combination with Saberattack 3, if you walk and slash your saber around, you automatically deflect shots that hit you. But only if you walk and slash, if you run you only deflect the ones that you hit with your saber while you slash.

Jump 1 (gunners): Access to a shortburst "Launching" jetpack that flings you
away just enough to dodge a saber slash.
Jump 2 (gunners): An advanced version of jump (jetpack 1) 1, you have a 2 second burst which you can steer slightly left or right. You're launched again in one direction and you more horizontal space then actual vertical space unless you aim upwards ofcourse.
Jump 3 (gunners): Either access to a 3 second burst jetpack that covers even more distance, or a better more maneuverable base jetpack.

How this would work:
To launch yourself into a direction you would press and hold Jump like a jedi, your character would jump in the air and be flung towards the direction he'd been walking in. With the jetpack draining fuel (which could be bought back with another skill) in a number that we would define later, and with a type of cooldown for it so it couldn't be spammed vs Jedi (I think it's gonna be hard to use either way, with our Force powers, that's why I want the more novel-realistic SWBF2 type of jetpack). Jump + use would result in a quick launch upwards.

JUmp 1: Jump height of the current jump 2.
Jump 2: Jump height of 3 and access to all acrobatics + Jumping DFA's like the red and Purple DFA.
Jump 3: A higher jump (if the jump right now is 12, how about you double it? Or make it like JK1 and have it be one of those things you gotta charge, and when you let go it flings you upwards.) jump that gives you access to all the regular DFA's.

Adrenal implants/stimulants (speed for gunners) it would work the exact way the Jedi speed system works currently.

Jedi Sprint (Jedi SPeed) 1: You can sprint for 15 FP a second.
Jedi Sprint (Jedi Speed) 2: You can sprint for 10 FP a second.
Jedi Sprint (Jedi Speed) 3: You can sprint for 5 fp a second.
Sprinting at level 1 or 2 would make one vulnerable to Push and Pull powers at any level. Sprinting at level 3 only makes them vulnerable to Grip and lightning. If you sprint you should have 50-70% MORE dp drain as to balance this being spammed against gunners.

Sprint would work like BF2 sprint does. We would have to hold and keep our Speed button pressed in order to Sprint. As soon as we let it go, we stop sprinting! This could be a promising feature and surely a feature that would turn some heads.

Addendum I:
Since Ace likes to have JUmp AND jetpacks available to the same person, it might be smart to leave the jumpbutton-for-jetpack thing out of it if people take both powers. So they could fly with use+jump (or scroll in their inventories, select jetpack and just press use + direction?) and force jump with space.

More coming soon after my few hours of Enemy Territory.

Maxstate is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 10-08-2006, 12:19 PM   #2
Doctor Shaft
 
Doctor Shaft's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: huh?
Posts: 193
Quote:
Addendum I:
Since Ace likes to have JUmp AND jetpacks available to the same person, it might be smart to leave the jumpbutton-for-jetpack thing out of it if people take both powers. So they could fly with use+jump (or scroll in their inventories, select jetpack and just press use + direction?) and force jump with space.
Of all the ideas that sounds like it's going to be full of disaster, this is one of them. Jump + Jetpack? I hope we have a good strategy in terms of balancing that out.

In addition, I'm already weary of jetpacks in the first place. The saber combat system is nice, but remember that JA saber animations were designed, first and foremost, for two ground combatants with their feet FIRMLY planted on the floor beneath them. Once you go into aerial combat, you're still using the same swings and techniques. Heck, the lightsabers are bad enough when you're trying to hit something above your head, or below your feet.

What I'm saying is don't overestimate lightsabers in JA. A jetpack that keeps me in the air is a great advantage over a lightsaber, and not because of distance. Instead, it's because it's hard to swing at anything that is floating or evading through the air. I'm hoping that jetpacks can, at best, be pulled down occasionally. I'd hate to be playing "chase the mouse" all day.


Otherwise, all of this sounds good in the jump, lightsaber combat department. What about the other Force Powers now? I'm glad you started this thread, but I've noticed that we still haven't kicked around any good ideas on what to do with the other powers. So far, these are the powers that seem to have a "solution" or use in OJP.

Force Speed
Force Jump
Push/Pull
Force Lightning
Force Heal (it works at least)
Force Absorb (for now... I forsee problems with it in the future... think gunners immune to lightning)


That still leaves us with Protect (not very useful), Drain, Rage, and Mind Trick (which is cool... except not very useful considering how the DP meter works). So what do we do about them?

Are we still going to keep the standard JA Force system (Light/Dark menus)? I know that I haven't really offered and suggestions yet, but at least wanted to establish some grounding before we all start throwing ideas around.


Watch this we will, or lay down I shall.... DIBS I have!
Doctor Shaft is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 10-08-2006, 12:32 PM   #3
Maxstate
I forgot.... what?
 
Maxstate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: ;o ;p :eek:
Posts: 2,090
Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor Shaft
Of all the ideas that sounds like it's going to be full of disaster, this is one of them. Jump + Jetpack? I hope we have a good strategy in terms of balancing that out.
What's there to balance? If people like a hit and run type of gameplay let them do whatever they want. OJP is not going to be endless dueling forever you know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaft
In addition, I'm already weary of jetpacks in the first place. Our saber combat system is nice, but remember that JA saber animations were designed, first and foremost, for two ground combatants with their feet FIRMLY planted on the floor beneath them. Once you go into aerial combat, you're still using the same swings and techniques. Heck, the lightsabers are bad enough when you're trying to hit something above your head, or below your feet.
Did you even read what kind of jetpacks I want? Do you understand that jetpacks are merely there for quick transportation and lightsaber dodging?
We're not going to have jetpacked jedi fighting each other in the air. Read my post again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaft
What I'm saying is that we have to be careful not to overestimate lightsabers in JA. A jetpack that keeps me in the air is a great advantage over a lightsaber, and not because of distance. Instead, it's because it's hard to swing at anything that is floating or evading through the air. I'm hoping that jetpacks can, at best, be pulled down occasionally. I'd hate to be playing "chase the mouse" all day.
It's not a jetpack that keeps you in the air, it's a jetpack that launches you a good step or 5 away from your enemy and which subsequently needs to cooldown before you can do it again.
If you're worried on how to catch gunners or jedi like that.. well that's what you got force for, force pull for example.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaft
Otherwise, all of this sounds good in the jump, lightsaber combat department. What about the other Force Powers now? I'm glad you started this thread, but I've noticed that we still haven't kicked around any good ideas on what to do with the other powers. So far, these are the powers that seem to have a "solution" or use in OJP.
Well I don't see you giving suggestions either, mister
Everyone wants changes but noone can be arsed to make a thread or even post. These changes aren't going in if you don't comment about them folks. And if you have ideas on what to change, post them. It works.
I'll think of something, okay. But instead of just saying that we lack usable force powers, how's about you actually step up and bring in some ideas on how to change that? That we have useless force powers is not really hard to see.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaft
Force Absorb (for now... I forsee problems with it in the future... think gunners immune to lightning)
I don't think some gunners or "warriors" shouldn't even be allowed to take anything other than neutral core force powers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaft
That still leaves us with Protect (not very useful), Drain, Rage, and Mind Trick (which is cool... except not very useful considering how the DP meter works). So what do we do about them?
You tell me!
I'm about to post my opinion, just waiting for dinner.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaft
Are we still going to keep the standard JA Force system (Light/Dark menus)? I know that I haven't really offered and suggestions yet, but at least wanted to establish some grounding before we all start throwing ideas around.
No, in the new version dark and light are on teh same page. The different lists I hope to have are "Gadgets/Skills" or "Gunner/Jedi".
And good correction .


Last edited by Maxstate; 10-08-2006 at 12:54 PM.
Maxstate is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 10-08-2006, 06:11 PM   #4
razorace
Impressive, Terran!
 
razorace's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 9,187
In the latest beta we have allowed the powers to be taken from the Light and Dark sides of the Force at the same time. In addition, I've added skills for jetpack, pistol, blaster, thermals, and rockets. The jetpack and pistol skills simply give you the related items but the others give the item and give more ammo based on the number of skill ranks taken.

And I think Doc is right, we seem to have several useless powers in the current setup. I was thinkiing that it might be cool to retool Rage to make it be a sort of DP/FP regeneration method. Say, maybe Rage should give the player bonus DP/FP for killing and or taunting enemies.

Doc, if you want to be a part of the betatesting staff, PM me.


---Jedi Guardian of the Newbie Questions
---Masters of the Force Team Leader / Creator
---Open Jedi Project Lead Moderator / Co-Founder
razorace is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 10-08-2006, 06:24 PM   #5
Maxstate
I forgot.... what?
 
Maxstate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: ;o ;p :eek:
Posts: 2,090
Quote:
Originally Posted by razorace
In the latest beta we have allowed the powers to be taken from the Light and Dark sides of the Force at the same time. In addition, I've added skills for jetpack, pistol, blaster, thermals, and rockets. The jetpack and pistol skills simply give you the related items but the others give the item and give more ammo based on the number of skill ranks taken.
Radical :O
Quote:
Originally Posted by Razor
And I think Doc is right, we seem to have several useless powers in the current setup. I was thinkiing that it might be cool to retool Rage to make it be a sort of DP/FP regeneration method. Say, maybe Rage should give the player bonus DP/FP for killing and or taunting enemies.
Hmmmm...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Razor
Doc, if you want to be a part of the betatesting staff, PM me.
Yes Doc would be an excellent addition

Maxstate is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 10-08-2006, 09:25 PM   #6
Darth Cariss
Rookie
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: The edge of Insanity EHEHEHEH!
Posts: 56
There's some really good suggestions in this thread. What mostly coems to mind is the "Jedi Sprint" idea Maxy had. I think that'd be a great change.

As for Jetpacks, I DO like the idea of having the uber easy-to-use base JKA Jetpack (Movie Battles or FM3 Style), but I think if it IS there it should be super expensive or something.

For L1 and L2 Jetpacks though, I like the idea of it simply launching you somewhere. Would be even better if it had the Boba Fett "launching" pose that he does in Episode 6. That was cool.



-Also known as: Mcbober
Darth Cariss is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 10-09-2006, 06:26 PM   #7
Doctor Shaft
 
Doctor Shaft's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: huh?
Posts: 193
Quote:
And I think Doc is right, we seem to have several useless powers in the current setup. I was thinkiing that it might be cool to retool Rage to make it be a sort of DP/FP regeneration method. Say, maybe Rage should give the player bonus DP/FP for killing and or taunting enemies.
Brilliant idea here. Not just with how Rage could work, but the general direction of how Force powers should be implemented.

My suggestion would be to tool EVERY force power in OJP enhanced towards the DP/FP/MP meters. It would create a consistency for everything, and allow players to always predict, to a degree, what will happen when they do certain things. The consistency would be created by no longer having any "random" powers.

"Ooh, I blast you with this."
"Well, where did that come from?"
"I don't know, but it works."

Lightning and absorb seem to be "solved" for the most part. They counter each other, and the rnaking system seems to work as well. In addition, absorb users would be able to prevent disastrous force pushes during a serious mishap (theoretically). So absorb has a use, even if it's not the most glorious or exciting.

So, a couple ideas for some of the Force Powers. I'll confess that I'm initially being overzealous in terms of proposing some things. If it's even doable or worth the time is something I'm leaving in the back of my mind for now.

One suggestion I'd have for any Force Power discussion is that if we propose anything, we be able to back the idea up with an example from Star Wars. Like the films. Even if it's sort of "stretching it", at least provide an example of inspiration.

--RAGE--
Increased FP/DP sounds great. The question remains of how the player would receive this bonus, and would it it adversely affect how the game is played. I'd say that it should be a power that gives immediate benefits when turned on. The penalty for using it in the past was loss of HP. But HP really doesn't have much value in OJP. You get shot and you die. Or slashed in half. Having more or less HP doesn't seem too terribly useful. It's good to have full health, as it allows that chance of survival, but sacrificing it for lots of power seems not enough of a risk. What if the FP/DP was increased incrementally (along with saber speed increase, like normal), but the mishap meter would also increase along with the gradual health drain?

So, the rage user would get a burst of offensive power (more saber swings per-second, more force points to reek havoc, and more dodge points to survive in battle), but they are more vulnerable to having their weapon knocked away, and they fatigue (HP drain) rapidly? Invulnerability of rage user would be removed, instead favoring the user with a slight defense increase (10% cap)?

[Hypothetical Movie Example]
Darth Vader rages against Luke Skywalker. He effectively drives and overpowers the inexperienced warrior back (More FP... eh), only to have a quick and sudden surprise shot glance his shoulder(More DP/More Mishap). Still, he just gets angrier and totally dominates his attacker, disarming him literally.

RotJ, Luke Skywalker rages against Darth Vader. More DP/FP as he drives Vader back (and despite wild swings, does not get hit), manages to eventually beat Vader in his rage (despite the lack of finesse or focus = higher mishap). Tired after finishing the job (drained HP).

Anakin Skywalker dominates Obi-Wan Kenobi... only to have his legs cut off suddenly due to tactical error and lack of focus (higher mishap).

[/Hypothetical Movie Example]


--Protect--
Force Protect would be similar to Force Rage, but provide a different slant of benefits. DP would be increased (as the user is relying on the Force for added defense), and the DP increase would be greater than with Force Rage (which gets most of its power from the combination of increased speed, increased FP , AND a slight DP advantage). Protect would allow the user to last longer in battle, but not necessarily provide an offensive edge. A player could then use protect as a means of surviving longer, and having more opportunities to score successful parries, attack parries, etc. Because Protect drains FP constantly instead of HP (like Rage), it's not to the users advantage to leave it on constantly, or even necessarily to initiate combat with it, as it's only a DP increase. No offensive benefits, or mishap defenses. Every strike can still be attack parried, creating a situation where they may still block all of the shots thrown at them, but their rapidly losing FP in the process. Unsuccessful use results in a battered Jedi that falls to his knees and finally relents to a killing blow.

Defense bonus like normal JA (they survive a little more, but still die rather quickly).

[HME]
Obi-Wan Kenobi counters General Grievous' onslaught with a skillful use of Soresu (I was never a fan of the book terminology ) along with his complete trust of the Force (Force Protect). Despite Grievous four lightsabers and deadly teaching from Count Dooku, Kenobi manages to parry and disarm his fierce opponent, and at the end even has FP to spare to send his opponent flying (due to allowing his opponent to do most of the attacking and slashing).

Next, he handles Anakin's superior Rage by skillfully parrying and taking the defensive in their fight. He never overpowers Anakin, but he eventually takes the win by patiently drawing him into a mistake.

He takes beatings from both Anakin, Jango Fett, and Grievous, and manages to somehow retain consciousness (defense bonus for Protect).

[/HME]

--Mind Trick--
I'm not sure I really like the "invisibility" aspect of this power. I think it's lame, even if it's cool to go through single player and walk right by enemies. But tricking their minds successfully and trying to simulate that in Multiplayer has never worked. And why someone NEEDS to take Force Seeing to counter this one power is beyond me.

A preliminary idea I have for this would to again, allow it to be used as a bonus/ability in saber combat. By using mind trick, a single opponent is temporarily "tagged" by the user for a "surprise" strike. This stirke would have more accuracy, and the user would seem less aware of it's coming, hence they are apt to lose more DP and incur more MP when used.

The downside to the power would be its Force Cost (which could be increased based on how "useful" it would be). In addition, the Trick would still work as it usually does. You target someone, get in range, then "cast" it. And the effect wears off upon attacking that person. This would give one shot, and be similar to a "Power Shot" or "Attack Fake" in a sense, but instead be more of a direct Force Power. Something they can't really seem coming.

[Movie Example]
Count Dooku battles Obi Wan and Anakin in EPII, constantly surprising them at opportune moments during the battle. Obi Wan finds himself quickly stabbed in the leg and arm (although I guess this could be more of a normal saberlock/superbreak example). Anakin fights Dooku with two sabers, only to find himself suddenly missing one lighsaber in the process (sudden mishap). He is surprised this even happens, and later on finds himself heavy bounced suddenly (things seemed to be going so well), followed by a lost arm.
[/Movie Example]

--Force Seeing--
Force Seeing still has one use. Wall-hacking. This has its uses, but unless you're playing capture the flag, this doesn't see that much use. Perhaps this power could be used to counter more than just Force Mind Trick. I'm on the fense with that one. Or, it could provide the user with a "read-out" of the opponents FP/MP/DP meters. Each level would provide further range of use, but also access to more bars.

Level 1 would give MP only.
Level 2 gives more range, a wall-hack, and a DP meter.
Level 3 provides an FP meter as well, plus further range.

--Drain--
I still have no clue what to suggest for this. It's a projectile power in origin. Can it be modified so that it's not a projectile? I have some ideas, but not sure what to do yet, and if it has to be a projectile type, then I have to modify the thought.

A preliminary idea would be to have it drain something, but draining FP isn't a good idea. That really screws things up for OJP, and forces players to either have absorb on at all times, or avoid combat altogether, since EVERYTHING relies on having FP.


That's all I've got in me for now. Let me know if these ideas are too whacked out or impractical for use. I ripped quite a bit from Razor's inspiration here as well. If anyone has other practical uses, chime in.


I think the best way of approaching this would be to imitate the films. What did our favorite Jedi actually do? One thing JK/JO/JA kind of tweaked a bit too far (in my opinion) were the Force Powers. We don't see our favorite Jedi pals blasting things to death, or going the complete opposite direction and erecting one million different types of shields. Why not provide techniques, or ways of using the Force in fighting.

Sidious and Maul were frightening and raged. Dooku was cold but calculating. Obi-Wan was resilient and deceptively passive. Qui-Gon seemed to fight with such energy, despite old age.

Since we have Dark and Light powers on the same page, I think it's okay to blur the lines a bit. Let allegiances fall based on character, and who chooses to utilize which powers. While lightning is certainly an indication of "falling to the Dark Side", things such as rage could be argued as aspects that even some of the greatest Jedi never completely flush out of themselves. And even some of the darkest Sith still rely on old Jedi tricks if they knew them before hand.


Watch this we will, or lay down I shall.... DIBS I have!
Doctor Shaft is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 10-09-2006, 07:47 PM   #8
razorace
Impressive, Terran!
 
razorace's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 9,187
Quote:
--RAGE--
I'm not so sure that a constant "drain" should be the way to go with this power. It seems to me that drawing on your rage gains you instant power but is fleeting when things don't go your way.

Maybe it should be a triggered power with an undetermined duration. Basically, you trigger the power and get increased FP regeneration and DP damage. However, if you don't deal enough damage or suffer more damage than you deal, your player starts to "doubt" and begins suffering negative effects like reduced regeneration and higher mishaps. The kicker is that when you turn the power off, negative effects don't wear off until the player starts "winning" the battle in terms of damage dealt vs. taken. Basically, it's a great attack skill, but you really suffer if you don't wield it properly.
Quote:
--Force Seeing--
I like the idea of player being able to sense additional data about their opponents, but this might prove to have technical problems (most of that data isn't normally sent over the network for each player).
Quote:
--Protect--
Yeah, I like the idea of this being the "trusting the Force" skill and that is should mirror Rage in some ways. However, I'm not sure how the player could suffer negative effects. Maybe something similar to the "doubt" concept that I mentioned for Rage.
Quote:
--Drain--
Yeah, I'm not sure we can really retool this one. I suppose we could always replace it with a different power. Maybe something related to the amount of regenation a player gets thru meditation.


---Jedi Guardian of the Newbie Questions
---Masters of the Force Team Leader / Creator
---Open Jedi Project Lead Moderator / Co-Founder
razorace is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 10-09-2006, 07:50 PM   #9
crail227
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 98
perhaps we could restrict drain to close ranges only

like so

maybe drain can slow down dp regen


^Sanjuro
crail227 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 10-09-2006, 07:52 PM   #10
razorace
Impressive, Terran!
 
razorace's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 9,187
That seems unrealistic to me. I don't see Force users as vampires...even thou this skill was awesome to use in SP. :|


---Jedi Guardian of the Newbie Questions
---Masters of the Force Team Leader / Creator
---Open Jedi Project Lead Moderator / Co-Founder
razorace is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 10-09-2006, 10:01 PM   #11
crail227
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 98
i dont have any ideas for drain

but mindtrick, maybe we can invert the keys

so left is right, and up is down


^Sanjuro
crail227 is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 10-09-2006, 10:26 PM   #12
razorace
Impressive, Terran!
 
razorace's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 9,187
That doesn't seem realistic.


---Jedi Guardian of the Newbie Questions
---Masters of the Force Team Leader / Creator
---Open Jedi Project Lead Moderator / Co-Founder
razorace is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 10-10-2006, 10:54 AM   #13
Maxstate
I forgot.... what?
 
Maxstate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: ;o ;p :eek:
Posts: 2,090
I think mindtrick should create a clone of yourself wherever you aim at, lol.
A hologram for diversion ofcourse.

Maxstate is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 10-10-2006, 01:54 PM   #14
Vruki Salet
Junior Member
 
Vruki Salet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere else entirely
Posts: 443
Cool idea Max.
Vruki Salet is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 10-11-2006, 07:13 AM   #15
razorace
Impressive, Terran!
 
razorace's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 9,187
After some playtesting today, we discovered that there seems to be an issue with linking the amount of DP a player gets with their skill point allocation. Simply put, low skill point characters don't have enough DP to last worth anything in battle. Any ideas on how to fix that?

Also, another issue I see is that mercs end up not having enough skills. As such, there's a huge temptation to start dumping the extra points into Force powers. I'd like to avoid that if I could. From brainstorming, I thought up...
- add a LOT more merc skills.
- turn unallociated skill points into a score multipler.


---Jedi Guardian of the Newbie Questions
---Masters of the Force Team Leader / Creator
---Open Jedi Project Lead Moderator / Co-Founder
razorace is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 10-11-2006, 11:06 AM   #16
Maxstate
I forgot.... what?
 
Maxstate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: ;o ;p :eek:
Posts: 2,090
Thanks Vruks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by razorace
- add a LOT more merc skills.
I'll get my pack together and we'll arm the cannons for tonight, be ready to review a skeetload of skills

Maxstate is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 10-11-2006, 09:52 PM   #17
JRHockney*
Moderator
 
JRHockney*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,255
Hot Topic Starter LFN Staff Member 
Quote:
After some playtesting today, we discovered that there seems to be an issue with linking the amount of DP a player gets with their skill point allocation. Simply put, low skill point characters don't have enough DP to last worth anything in battle. Any ideas on how to fix that?
I'll just post the ideas I had before at the server with a few changes: make all jedi start out with 100 DP and then add a point to that for every two kills. For gunners, you could potentially do the same thing except start them at 0 DP. Then they would gradually earn the ability to dodge a saber once or twice. you could also just add to their maximum ammo carry or just give them more ammo. you would also start with low rockets and eanr an extra carry every 10 kills or so. Whatever. I'm not much of a gunner. :P

Quote:
- add a LOT more merc skills.
Hmm, I say time for some MB2 code porting! XD How about: flamethrower, dual pistol, arc jump, and darts!! I dont know. That might be cool but might take a while. For now at least, maybe a single dodge (which gives enough DP to dodge once or adds on a dodge to whatever they have earned [assuming you use the idea above]) thats expensive, more speed, THe rest of what ever weapons are left, and shield upgrade that is a "force field" that resists force powers while you still have shield (Expanded Universe starwars had some crystals that did this I think).

I also nmentioned this idea last night: Make jedis (people who buy a more expensive saber attack 1) get level 1 of all force powers but more expensive guns and gunners get cheaper guns but more expenive force powers.

Razor also suggested maybe jedis just automatically getting level 1 absorb that blocks every thing force wise (but drains FP faster). Thats not a bad idea either, but I still like the first idea bcause its provides more distinction betweenjedis and gunners and makes it a bit harder to do them both.


Game screen name: Master Jon Hoc Ni

UDM Quote: in singapore, gangsters are...skinny jacka**es who think they can 0wn you. they hurl insults at u, and then lose in a fight. n00bs
JRHockney* is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 10-13-2006, 10:05 PM   #18
Doctor Shaft
 
Doctor Shaft's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: huh?
Posts: 193
I'll post more later when my brain is refrehsed for Saturday, but just a couple comments.

1.) Play 009n. It's beautiful. Seriously, I jumped from playing version f to this, and it's lightyears ahead. Even lightyears ahead of i. Honestly, it just felt so smooth. You could really put your finger one whether it was time to block and conserve energy, or swing for the kill, wheras previous versions felt like there was no benefit to not swinging. Especially with the slow-down at 25 DP instead of just 10... forces you to be conservative instead of spam-tastic.

2.) With that being said, I think the Jedi would benefit more from having powers that directly relate to combat in terms of getting FP and DPs, or causing other opponents to suffer MPs more quickly. The system just seems to be capable of suiting something like that well. The Rage ideas, etc, would work well. I've noticed that you already get a DP/FP bonus for each kill as well. Rage giving an even greater bonus would be quite a feature, but the negative costs would still need to be evaluated.

3.) Mercs could definitely benefit from access to gadgets over having "skills". I'd say that the Merc class should be more of about using technology over having natural or "Force-related" abilities. So while the Jedi rely on "natural" abilities, the mercs rely wholly on their source of unnatural power. Max mentioning the flamethrowers, etc., would be fantastic to see. The only problem is that the gadgets shouldn't completely trump the need for weapons. Flamethrowers, visors (to see things... wall hacks are better suited for those that absolutely want to avoid saber combat), perhaps access to a shield generator that is based on "ammo" instead of item usage. So you can turn it on and off at will, deciding when to use it block a persuer.

4.) Some of the Force powers, considering how the system works now, seem to eat up alot of energy. Lightning is a menacing power, but won't last long with anyone who uses it. Perhaps tweaking how much damage it does for the short-bursts might be worth looking at. Should Force Push/Pull ever do damage on a successful knockdown? Just a thought, not something that's needed.

But anyway, beautiful system. The saber locks are wonderful. Not too much, but still predictable. I see the parrying system seems more based on sabers clashing than waiting for random bounces (although bounces still occur, just not as often, at least for me). And really, the slowdown at 25 makes a big difference. It's kept me from just swinging like crazy, and actually gives an incentive to deciding to block over just hoping your saber beats the other guys DP meter. Having Force Powers that give boosts to certain meters would be a pretty interesting way of tweaking the system. Sometimes I'd have no FP left, but a good chunk of DP remaining to block and parry with.


Watch this we will, or lay down I shall.... DIBS I have!
Doctor Shaft is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 10-14-2006, 01:23 AM   #19
razorace
Impressive, Terran!
 
razorace's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 9,187
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor Shaft
I've noticed that you already get a DP/FP bonus for each kill as well. Rage giving an even greater bonus would be quite a feature, but the negative costs would still need to be evaluated.
Right, I think we might want to have the kill bonus be the bonus of using the Rage power.

Quote:
4.) Some of the Force powers, considering how the system works now, seem to eat up alot of energy. Lightning is a menacing power, but won't last long with anyone who uses it. Perhaps tweaking how much damage it does for the short-bursts might be worth looking at. Should Force Push/Pull ever do damage on a successful knockdown? Just a thought, not something that's needed.
Player vs player testing has shown that lightning is actually overpowered when players are low level. Low level players' DP is quickly overwhelmed and the attacker then them at their mercy since even a snap blast knocks them over. We're trying to counter that by having players get more inital DP. That should be in the next release.


---Jedi Guardian of the Newbie Questions
---Masters of the Force Team Leader / Creator
---Open Jedi Project Lead Moderator / Co-Founder
razorace is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 10-15-2006, 05:52 PM   #20
Maxstate
I forgot.... what?
 
Maxstate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: ;o ;p :eek:
Posts: 2,090
Some ideas that come to mind after extensive playtesting today:

-Certain combinations of skills should give a user titles, for example if one takes a combination of a rifle, a jetpack and some rockets they could get the "mandalorean" title. If someone only takes Saber skills and NO force powers they should get the title of "weapons master" or "guardian" or whatever.

-Some weapons should become gadget-only. Saber or Datguru as we know him here is in the works of making a gadget idea of mine that I think we could use for a lot of gadgets including some kind of dart or small grenade launcher.

-The rocket launcher I think does not have any kind of Star Wars feel to it.. it's just.. well it just doesn't feel right. Taking notes from the PLX launcher and it's aiming screen, and drawing inspiration from a mod called Noquarter, I was thinking of making rocket's move slower, but make them steerable.
It's already done in ET:noquarter and it's based on the same engine, so I reckon Ace could do it for 0.1.x ?

-Instead of just adding ammo to a weapon, how about more skill points in it actually increase it's usefulness? Such as spread rate, rate of fire, damage per shot, fire modi, scope etc. etc.

-For a certain amount of skillpoints, ranks should be added. Currently I believe that 40 is the lowest level you can go to still keep some kind of saber vs gunning in it without spoiling it. Going as high as about 250.
Anyway, ranks should be added for different levels to accompany the user's "class name". Examples being "Private Maxstate - Mandalorian", or "General Maxstate - Sith Destroyer", whatever. The names can always be worked out, the point is that we need some kind of ranking.

-Are you still planning to do the Lightsaber forms, Ace? You've never given a really 'clear' answer. I'm sorry to keep bugging you about this but I really really really really going to be excited if the whole thing gets a green light from you!
I'll give you a brief look over on how it would work:

You would add a number of Lightsaber Forms into the profile screen just like you added the new "merc" skills. People could buy these only if they have full saber attack and defense 3 , they would cost around 15 to 20 points depending on their quality and bonuses.

Shii-Cho (current yellow):
Should give you no bonus.

Makashi (Current animation pack Makashi):
Should clear out or reduce greatly the damage taken from back whacks so the chance of fighting multiple saber wielding opponents becomes a possibility.
Also would the back attacks that you do while in Makashi do 1.50 times the damage it does normally to simulate the preciseness of the style.
Ripostes done in Makashi should have a small chance to knock back your opponent like a kick does on half mishap. You know the one when they slide backwards?
As a con I would like to see Makashi being unable to deflect any shots back from a blaster and take double damage from blaster shots.

Soresu (current animation pack Soresu) :
"The turtler's Form", DP damage would would be reduced by a number (I think the current damage times 0.75 is pretty good) and 1 in 2 blaster shots would be reflected no matter how fast they arrive after each other.
As a con, I think that Soresu should get the lowest DP damage factor for attacks. I'm too tired to dig into the documenation right now but if I'm not mistaken it was around 12? Make it 9 or 10.

Ataru (Base Tavion's style):
Ataru would be the aggressive acrobatics style.. hmm..
I think that while in Ataru all DFA's should do double damage. Also it seems like a nice choice to have every consecutive attack do just a slight bit more damage so you get a kind of a multiplier effect. The effect will get canceled out if you get parried succesfully. As a con (taking notice of Qui Gon's concentration, and his demise when an unorthodox trick was used) if you as an Ataru user get kicked by an enemy duelist, you immediately either get knocked back at low mishap (the slide back one, or the stumble back one which I would prefer more) or you get knocked down at medium mishap.

Djem so (current red style , preferably replacement pack red style because it has better transitions and distincts itself much better from just being a 'slower yellow style')
Djem-So users should get an even higher damage rating (I think it's 18 now, make it 19) and fatigue should not bother them as much (if regular fatigue sets in at 10, Djem-So users can go to 1-3 without getting fatigued).
This will make for a movie-like effect as you saw with Luke banging on Vader in one of the final scenes, or Anakin just trying to push and push and push Dooku. As a con ofcourse, a riposte at medium to high (yes, anywhere between medium to high, which is from half to top) will result in a disarm.

Niman (current Desann style)
Having this lightsaber skill should give you the ability to make desperation ripostes. If you're verging on death, low on DP, red even and you manage to riposte your enemy's finishing move, you will have your DP restored by 10-20 points depending on your skill level. The skill should also make you regenerate FP much faster when you meditate as a passive skill.
As I think of this as more of a passive style I think that no cons should be added for it.

Juyo (current replacement Juyo)
Juyo does 17 damage right? Lets see it do 18 damage for strikes that aren't parried. I also think that Juyo's power attacks shouldn't cause saber locks if you let go of of your right mouse button after you perform one. If you keep both your mouse buttons pressed for the whole slash it should ofcourse.
This not only brings out the damage potential of Juyo but also the unpredictability, this way people never know if you're out to get them on the floor or just damage them more.
Con? Juyo and/or Vaapad should make you more vulnerable to force powers:
-1.25 more damage for Lightning.
-1.50 more damage for Grip.
-Pushable and Pullable in the air no matter what level of Absorb you have.



-I love what you did with the DP levels being parallel to your skill level, to make it even more interesting how's about you get that old idea of mine in? :


Quote:
Originally Posted by Me, myself and eyeball
Saber defense 1: No deflection skill.
Saber Defense 2: Every fifth shot and shots that are hit by a saberslash should be deflected. If you are hit with a 6th shot very soon after the 5th, you can not deflect it.
Saber Defense 3: Every third shot is deflected.
Saber defense 3 also enables Ripostes.

Saber defense 3 would also enable "T3". Ace, please please add it in.
Currently, killing gunners really doesn't give you any kind of satisfaction since it's not dangerous enough.. I spent minutes slashing at the same gunner and I could deflect every single shot that he hit me with.
It's not just that it's not fair to gunners, it's not fun, not immersive and not Starwars-like for us Jedi players.

The only thing I ask is this: You can not deflect shots from blasters if you are slashing your saber, UNLESS you hit them with your saber. You CAN deflect and slash at the same time if you walk and slash, this makes killing gunners with your saber a lot more in-depth , fun and strategic. You can't just ignore the jedi vs gunner side of things, I like saber vs saber as much or even more than you do but I still find that actually putting effort and wits into killing a gunner the most efficient way is still A LOT more fun than how it is now.
Please Ace, please please please! Can we at least TRY it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max

I changed my ideas a bit to suit the current 009N more.

Saber Attack 1 = No changes.
Saber Attack 2 = No changes.
Saber Attack 3 = At SBA3 you get to use power slashes, the previous 2 do not have them.

Jump 1: Jump height of the current jump 2.
Jump 2: Jump height of 3 and access to all acrobatics + Jumping DFA's like the red and Purple DFA.
Jump 3: A higher jump (if the jump right now is 12, how about you double it? Or make it like JK1 and have it be one of those things you gotta charge, and when you let go it flings you upwards.) jump that gives you access to all the regular DFA's.

Jedi Sprint (Jedi SPeed) 1: You can sprint for 15 FP a second.
Jedi Sprint (Jedi Speed) 2: You can sprint for 10 FP a second.
Jedi Sprint (Jedi Speed) 3: You can sprint for 5 fp a second.
Sprinting at level 1 or 2 would make one vulnerable to Push and Pull powers at any level. Sprinting at level 3 only makes them vulnerable to Grip and lightning. If you sprint you should have 50-70% MORE dp drain as to balance this being spammed against gunners.

Sprint would work like BF2 sprint does. We would have to hold and keep our Speed button pressed in order to Sprint. As soon as we let it go, we stop sprinting! This could be a promising feature and surely a feature that would turn some heads.
-Absorb should be a passive power that works only when you are above a certain level of FP (stamina). Higher level powers require a higher number of FP for you to have to resist it. THe different levels of absorb should decrease this level gradually , making force powers an effective weapon against the weak, tired and uneducated in the way of the Force.

-...I see the riposte locks are still in the game, I thought you removed those? Is there a way I can turn them off or whatever? I really liked ripostes when they just bounced your opponent away, they actually made sense then and required skill to use and know-ho to perform well since you didn't know exactly if it would work , just like in most fencing situations. Currently you know exactly when you can counter and attack or kick your opponent because you have a 2 second lock that plays out just before. It removes a certain surprise effect, a pleasant feeling of accomplishment and it removes the strategy of the unpredictable from the game and I really think it's not right.

-I think the shotgun (the FC1 flechette rifle) should be removed and that it should become a mine-laying device. You would have the ability of launching trip mines that blow up when you press right mouse button or when someone walks near them. Proximity mines! The use of it is that you can just fire and launch mines where you want them to be without spoiling your cover and walking over there, might it be the case that you're playing a sneaky character.

That's all for now, I'm specifically interested in the Lightsaber skill ideas getting in. The rest is just sideshow talk.


Last edited by Maxstate; 10-15-2006 at 07:31 PM.
Maxstate is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 10-16-2006, 12:26 AM   #21
razorace
Impressive, Terran!
 
razorace's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 9,187
After some investigation, I've decided to have saber style perks/weaknesses be purchasable skills since balancing the various styles with associated perks/weaknesses was too tricky.


---Jedi Guardian of the Newbie Questions
---Masters of the Force Team Leader / Creator
---Open Jedi Project Lead Moderator / Co-Founder
razorace is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 10-16-2006, 01:12 AM   #22
JRHockney*
Moderator
 
JRHockney*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,255
Hot Topic Starter LFN Staff Member 
Quote:
Originally Posted by razorace
After some investigation, I've decided to have saber style perks/weaknesses be purchasable skills since balancing the various styles with associated perks/weaknesses was too tricky.
Perhaps, but I do think the styles should still have differing DP damages as default. I'm sorry, but the big baseball bat windup of red style better do more damage then the quick jab of blue style or the speedy onehanded slash of aqua. I know you've been trying to make sabers styles the same and a matter of personal preference, but you're just ignoring the laws of physics by doing that. Also, if you have the option to make aqua stronger than or equal to red in DP damage, no one is going to want to use red because its greater number of animation frames in it's windup makes it hit not as quickly as aqua or just about every other style. To put it simply, all the styles will never be the same because of how they are build and look.

I would also say make each style purchased for uniqueness factor and the early balancing of whatever perks they get for their style.

btw Max, The style DP damages are presently all 15. Razor set them there for rebalancing but hasn't changed them yet. Before they were: staff/dual 12, tavion 13, blue 14, yellow 15, desann 16, and red 17. I think they should be back to the way they were except blue replacing tavion as the weakest. I still like the idea of making one handed dual style an option.


Game screen name: Master Jon Hoc Ni

UDM Quote: in singapore, gangsters are...skinny jacka**es who think they can 0wn you. they hurl insults at u, and then lose in a fight. n00bs

Last edited by JRHockney*; 10-16-2006 at 01:27 AM.
JRHockney* is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 10-16-2006, 05:54 AM   #23
Maxstate
I forgot.... what?
 
Maxstate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: ;o ;p :eek:
Posts: 2,090
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRHockney*
Perhaps, but I do think the styles should still have differing DP damages as default. I'm sorry, but the big baseball bat windup of red style better do more damage then the quick jab of blue style or the speedy onehanded slash of aqua. I know you've been trying to make sabers styles the same and a matter of personal preference, but you're just ignoring the laws of physics by doing that. Also, if you have the option to make aqua stronger than or equal to red in DP damage, no one is going to want to use red because its greater number of animation frames in it's windup makes it hit not as quickly as aqua or just about every other style. To put it simply, all the styles will never be the same because of how they are build and look.

I would also say make each style purchased for uniqueness factor and the early balancing of whatever perks they get for their style.

btw Max, The style DP damages are presently all 15. Razor set them there for rebalancing but hasn't changed them yet. Before they were: staff/dual 12, tavion 13, blue 14, yellow 15, desann 16, and red 17. I think they should be back to the way they were except blue replacing tavion as the weakest. I still like the idea of making one handed dual style an option.
Damn.. how could I've missed that?

I agree with the damage thing though.

Ace, you're saying you don't want the styles to be bound to ingame styles but just give you perks? I dunno about that.. but I guess we can do that for starters, to see if it's possible or not.

Maxstate is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 10-16-2006, 06:23 AM   #24
razorace
Impressive, Terran!
 
razorace's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 9,187
I'm saying that it was too difficult to do a per-style balancing act. We flat out couldn't come up with a way to balance them out without getting corny. As such, I figured we should try doing it where players can choose which perks/disadvantages they get instead.


---Jedi Guardian of the Newbie Questions
---Masters of the Force Team Leader / Creator
---Open Jedi Project Lead Moderator / Co-Founder
razorace is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 10-16-2006, 09:41 AM   #25
Maxstate
I forgot.... what?
 
Maxstate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: ;o ;p :eek:
Posts: 2,090
Quote:
Originally Posted by razorace
I'm saying that it was too difficult to do a per-style balancing act. We flat out couldn't come up with a way to balance them out without getting corny. As such, I figured we should try doing it where players can choose which perks/disadvantages they get instead.
Ahh, so a "no named" perk/disadvantage system? Nothing to do with the forms/styles? Sorry if I'm a bit thick here.

Maxstate is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 10-16-2006, 03:15 PM   #26
Sushi_CW
Rookie
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 221
I think a simple system where longer swings (more frames) is inversely proportional to damage would be enough to differentiate the styles. Being able to hit more often should mean hitting less hard, and visa versa. Hockney's idea of ordering them blue, cyan, yellow, purple, red sounds good to me.
Sushi_CW is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 10-16-2006, 03:36 PM   #27
Maxstate
I forgot.... what?
 
Maxstate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: ;o ;p :eek:
Posts: 2,090
I don't.

We already kinda had that with the bigger and slower styles doing more damage, it didn't offer you with any kind of customization effect and didn't distinct your persona and character from others' characters. Our saber system is already top-notch, nothing else here that can beat it. Still if we want to go down the path of customization we need something like this.

Also, it's personal preference. I like the Forms but I'm not gonna bug Razor to get them ingame if he doesn't want too. BUT I would like to see more saber customization, more difference in damage, precision, speed, more difference in feats, getting abilities through saber styles.. that kinda thing. Currently, all Jedi have access to all the styles.
Later on, in 0.1.0 I'd like to see that all Jedi can pick 3 styles and upgrade those styles, be it with the Forms or not. Just adding simple differences in damage and speed isn't going to run well with the huge, customizable exp system and complex saber system we have right now.

Now Ace's post got me thinking, what if we could add different perks based on the Forms in the "Saber selection" menu just like we did with the Merc skills in the Profile menu? Not just that but what about making skills named "Precision sabering", or "Advanced Jedi Defense" or "Anatomy knowledge" that you can buy from the menu with each it's own perk (and weakness if necessary) ?

For example "precision sabering" could get you skills based loosely on Makashi (it would make sense) like the ability to deal more damage to unparried strikes or deal more back damage? Precision sabering would just be a Level 1 skill in a series of Makashi-based skills, as an example the second skill would be "Dueler's precision" or something like that which would upgrade the perk and/or add another one similar to it. (I'm just spitting out names and ideas that seem like good additions to me )
"Anatomy knowledge" would give you 'knowledge of vital organ locations' and thusly for example do more damage to unarmed foes?

Also I'd really like these skills to be bound to one style at a time, I really don't see someone using Red style or Djem-So as a precision style. If it's not possible I can live with it though, just saying.

Razor, could you try implementing one of those things I mentioned above for us on the Code server so we can see if it works correctly? Pwease?

Maxstate is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 10-16-2006, 06:02 PM   #28
Tanqexe
Junior Member
 
Tanqexe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxstate
Also, it's personal preference. I like the Forms but I'm not gonna bug Razor to get them ingame if he doesn't want too. BUT I would like to see more saber customization, more difference in damage, precision, speed, more difference in feats, getting abilities through saber styles.. that kinda thing. Currently, all Jedi have access to all the styles.
Later on, in 0.1.0 I'd like to see that all Jedi can pick 3 styles and upgrade those styles, be it with the Forms or not. Just adding simple differences in damage and speed isn't going to run well with the huge, customizable exp system and complex saber system we have right now.

Now Ace's post got me thinking, what if we could add different perks based on the Forms in the "Saber selection" menu just like we did with the Merc skills in the Profile menu? Not just that but what about making skills named "Precision sabering", or "Advanced Jedi Defense" or "Anatomy knowledge" that you can buy from the menu with each it's own perk (and weakness if necessary) ?

For example "precision sabering" could get you skills based loosely on Makashi (it would make sense) like the ability to deal more damage to unparried strikes or deal more back damage? Precision sabering would just be a Level 1 skill in a series of Makashi-based skills, as an example the second skill would be "Dueler's precision" or something like that which would upgrade the perk and/or add another one similar to it. (I'm just spitting out names and ideas that seem like good additions to me )
"Anatomy knowledge" would give you 'knowledge of vital organ locations' and thusly for example do more damage to unarmed foes?

Also I'd really like these skills to be bound to one style at a time, I really don't see someone using Red style or Djem-So as a precision style. If it's not possible I can live with it though, just saying.

Razor, could you try implementing one of those things I mentioned above for us on the Code server so we can see if it works correctly? Pwease?
I've been working on the Saber Skills System conceptually for a while, actually, just haven't been able to finish it due to a miriad of IRL stuff. I had a nice talk with Razor last night about it and it follows his idea of full skill customizability combined with the use of Forms.

Basically what I've done is that instead of limiting skills to particular Forms and their corresponding styles, I've conceptually grouped aspects of the OJP saber system into seven categories. They are:

Saber Proficiency: (tentative, might meld this in with Form VI instead)
Form I: Constitution (health and fatigue)
Form II: Parries (defensive and offensive use)
Form III: Blaster deflection and saber blocking
Form IV: Acrobatics
Form V: Brute strength
Form VI: Cross-class skills to buff up dual/staff
Form VII: Feints

Basically the way this would have to work would be that it'd be expensive to purchase too many perks, so you'll have to get flaws to get back some skill points so that you can invest more. This way people can basically create their own styles of combat while others who really dig the whole Forms thing can invest their points and have a Form focus. Mastery comes from having all the perks/flaws of one form selected. Mastering a form will magnify the perks/flaws of a style and also unlock a mastery skill.

I'm thinking that deadlier skills like those from Form VII should be purchased if you invest enough skill points in perks/flaws to master more than one form to access...basically a more elaborate version of the current saber attack/defense tier levels. I'm also wondering if it'd be better to have penalties for skills used outside of one style or give bonuses for use in one style instead. I'm also a bit iffy on the saber proficiency section; maybe those perks/flaws can meld in with Form VI to give more incentive in getting dual/staff?

I'm currently making an interactive webpage to display the skills that I've thought up so far (with some incentive from Maxstate's ideas) and show how the skills would be arranged, but basically each category will have three perks and three flaws except for Form I which only has two of each. To master a Form you have to select all the perks and flaws in that row. However, depending on how many skill points you have available, you can choose to customize however you want; you can have an acrobatic turtler or a guy who can comfortably parry on the defensive and then hurt you like hell with overhead chops -- lots of possibilities. You can do Soresu moves while in a Djem-So (Red) style, but to make the skills in a category really shine you'll have to use styles corresponding to the skill's category.

In my opinion the skill points distribution will have to be just enough to only allow mastery of up to three styles when a player is high-level. One way to accomplish this would be to replace the Saber Attack/Defense tiers in the Powers menu to "Saber Combat," and let's say we can have 6 levels there. Suppose that the first level of Saber Combat costs 8 points; you select it and 8 points gets deducted from your skill points pool. In doing so you're allowed access to the lightsaber and you'll be able to unlock the Saber Skills menu (thinking along the lines of the MBII skills menu here). When you open the Saber Skills menu, you can see that there are 8 points that you can spend in your saber skill points pool. So basically you've invested 8 points to choose the kinds of saber skills that you want and gain more saber skill points by purchasing flaws. As you gain more skill points from killing people, you'll have enough skill points to invest in Saber Combat lvl 2, 3, and so on. Each additional level will give you more saber skill points corresponding to the number of skill points you needed to invest for each additional level. Saber Combat 1 and 2 will allow you the use of one style, 3 and 4 gives you two styles that you can select, and 5 and 6 will give you three styles. With each additional level you won't have to purchase as many flaws to grab the perks that you want, so it's kind of simulates an increasing proficiency with certain styles of combat.

Razor's said that the above idea would be difficult to implement because the UI code is messy, so another alternative is to merge the perks/flaws into skills with both advantages and drawbacks. In this scheme you'll just have 3 levels in Saber Combat, where each level gives you access to one more style. Just like the first system, once you buy Saber Combat 1 you'll have access to the lightsaber as well as the Saber Skills Menu. The saber skills will be purchased using whatever skill points you have available.

Another alternative is to combine the two systems and purchase individual perks and flaws using the general skill points. I'm a bit conflicted about this because nothing will stop somebody from only purchasing perks; I'm skeptical about letting high level XP players have no sort of weakness to exploit so that much lower level XP players can even stand a chance. The flaws in my opinion have to be bought to introduce an additional element of strategy as to how a high level player fights. It'll also force the player to think how they want to invest in the Saber Skills System and allow low level XP players to win by fighting smart while keeping high level players on their toes, because...well, when you're someone with 54 DP and you're up against somebody with, say, 170 DP, you'll feel like you're barely getting in any punches.

Anyway I've managed to think up the perks and Form mastery skills, but I haven't been able to work on the flaws (2 for Form I, 3 each for the rest). I'll get that webpage working when I get the time to to show you guys.


Tanqexe is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 10-16-2006, 06:22 PM   #29
Maxstate
I forgot.... what?
 
Maxstate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: ;o ;p :eek:
Posts: 2,090
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanqexe
I've been working on the Saber Skills System conceptually for a while, actually, just haven't been able to finish it due to a miriad of IRL stuff. I had a nice talk with Razor last night about it and it follows his idea of full skill customizability combined with the use of Forms.

Basically what I've done is that instead of limiting skills to particular Forms and their corresponding styles, I've conceptually grouped aspects of the OJP saber system into seven categories. They are:

Saber Proficiency: (tentative, might meld this in with Form VI instead)
Form I: Constitution (health and fatigue)
Form II: Parries (defensive and offensive use)
Form III: Blaster deflection and saber blocking
Form IV: Acrobatics
Form V: Brute strength
Form VI: Cross-class skills to buff up dual/staff
Form VII: Feints

Basically the way this would have to work would be that it'd be expensive to purchase too many perks, so you'll have to get flaws to get back some skill points so that you can invest more. This way people can basically create their own styles of combat while others who really dig the whole Forms thing can invest their points and have a Form focus. Mastery comes from having all the perks/flaws of one form selected. Mastering a form will magnify the perks/flaws of a style and also unlock a mastery skill.

I'm thinking that deadlier skills like those from Form VII should be purchased if you invest enough skill points in perks/flaws to master more than one form to access...basically a more elaborate version of the current saber attack/defense tier levels. I'm also wondering if it'd be better to have penalties for skills used outside of one style or give bonuses for use in one style instead. I'm also a bit iffy on the saber proficiency section; maybe those perks/flaws can meld in with Form VI to give more incentive in getting dual/staff?

I'm currently making an interactive webpage to display the skills that I've thought up so far (with some incentive from Maxstate's ideas) and show how the skills would be arranged, but basically each category will have three perks and three flaws except for Form I which only has two of each. To master a Form you have to select all the perks and flaws in that row. However, depending on how many skill points you have available, you can choose to customize however you want; you can have an acrobatic turtler or a guy who can comfortably parry on the defensive and then hurt you like hell with overhead chops -- lots of possibilities. You can do Soresu moves while in a Djem-So (Red) style, but to make the skills in a category really shine you'll have to use styles corresponding to the skill's category.

In my opinion the skill points distribution will have to be just enough to only allow mastery of up to three styles when a player is high-level. One way to accomplish this would be to replace the Saber Attack/Defense tiers in the Powers menu to "Saber Combat," and let's say we can have 6 levels there. Suppose that the first level of Saber Combat costs 8 points; you select it and 8 points gets deducted from your skill points pool. In doing so you're allowed access to the lightsaber and you'll be able to unlock the Saber Skills menu (thinking along the lines of the MBII skills menu here). When you open the Saber Skills menu, you can see that there are 8 points that you can spend in your saber skill points pool. So basically you've invested 8 points to choose the kinds of saber skills that you want and gain more saber skill points by purchasing flaws. As you gain more skill points from killing people, you'll have enough skill points to invest in Saber Combat lvl 2, 3, and so on. Each additional level will give you more saber skill points corresponding to the number of skill points you needed to invest for each additional level. Saber Combat 1 and 2 will allow you the use of one style, 3 and 4 gives you two styles that you can select, and 5 and 6 will give you three styles. With each additional level you won't have to purchase as many flaws to grab the perks that you want, so it's kind of simulates an increasing proficiency with certain styles of combat.

Razor's said that the above idea would be difficult to implement because the UI code is messy, so another alternative is to merge the perks/flaws into skills with both advantages and drawbacks. In this scheme you'll just have 3 levels in Saber Combat, where each level gives you access to one more style. Just like the first system, once you buy Saber Combat 1 you'll have access to the lightsaber as well as the Saber Skills Menu. The saber skills will be purchased using whatever skill points you have available.

Another alternative is to combine the two systems and purchase individual perks and flaws using the general skill points. I'm a bit conflicted about this because nothing will stop somebody from only purchasing perks; I'm skeptical about letting high level XP players have no sort of weakness to exploit so that much lower level XP players can even stand a chance. The flaws in my opinion have to be bought to introduce an additional element of strategy as to how a high level player fights. It'll also force the player to think how they want to invest in the Saber Skills System and allow low level XP players to win by fighting smart while keeping high level players on their toes, because...well, when you're someone with 54 DP and you're up against somebody with, say, 170 DP, you'll feel like you're barely getting in any punches.

Anyway I've managed to think up the perks and Form mastery skills, but I haven't been able to work on the flaws (2 for Form I, 3 each for the rest). I'll get that webpage working when I get the time to to show you guys.

Sounds nice, and I really hope that you will take some of my ideas in it.
If Razor is taking your idea for a ride I'll be more than happy to have mine sitting on the backseat nagging you two I've been stressing for something like this for so long!

And if you need cons and weaknesses or pros just holler, I've written like 2 guides for MB saber combat based on the seven Forms somewhat, I know approximately what Gillard was thinking when he pulled them from his ass

Maxstate is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 10-16-2006, 08:21 PM   #30
razorace
Impressive, Terran!
 
razorace's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 9,187
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sushi_CW
I think a simple system where longer swings (more frames) is inversely proportional to damage would be enough to differentiate the styles. Being able to hit more often should mean hitting less hard, and visa versa. Hockney's idea of ordering them blue, cyan, yellow, purple, red sounds good to me.
Unfortunately, frames per animations aren't an accurate measure of the windup speeds. Sometimes some animations simply have more frames for animation detail.

As for perks/disadvantages, based on my talks with Tanqexe, I think we should have a variety of them that apply to saberers, Force users, and gunners rather than be "form" based.

I suggest that perks cost skill points while disadvantages give skill points. However, you should only be able to take perks/disadvantages if you have the related skills. IE, you can't have a loose saber grip if you don't have a saber.


---Jedi Guardian of the Newbie Questions
---Masters of the Force Team Leader / Creator
---Open Jedi Project Lead Moderator / Co-Founder
razorace is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 10-17-2006, 05:43 AM   #31
razorace
Impressive, Terran!
 
razorace's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 9,187
Say, what do you guys think of having weapons weigh down a fighter and either making them move slower or make them use up FP to run?


---Jedi Guardian of the Newbie Questions
---Masters of the Force Team Leader / Creator
---Open Jedi Project Lead Moderator / Co-Founder
razorace is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 10-17-2006, 06:43 AM   #32
Maxstate
I forgot.... what?
 
Maxstate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: ;o ;p :eek:
Posts: 2,090
Quote:
Originally Posted by razorace
Say, what do you guys think of having weapons weigh down a fighter and either making them move slower or make them use up FP to run?
..Unless he buys a "strength" skill or something to even it out? I'll say yes to that .

Maxstate is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 10-17-2006, 09:35 AM   #33
JRHockney*
Moderator
 
JRHockney*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,255
Hot Topic Starter LFN Staff Member 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxstate
..Unless he buys a "strength" skill or something to even it out? I'll say yes to that .
Thats probably a good idea. We could make it relative to how much ammo your carrying as well. Maybe even slightly increased jump height too?


Game screen name: Master Jon Hoc Ni

UDM Quote: in singapore, gangsters are...skinny jacka**es who think they can 0wn you. they hurl insults at u, and then lose in a fight. n00bs
JRHockney* is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 10-17-2006, 11:17 AM   #34
Maxstate
I forgot.... what?
 
Maxstate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: ;o ;p :eek:
Posts: 2,090
(Keep my previous big post in mind)

I don't know but it seems like a good choice to get some kind of reloading in the game, even though we never saw it in the movies I think I have seen clones asking for ammo and/or throwing their rifle down and taking their sidearm.
More proof is that the e-11 obviously has a clip sticking out of it's side just like the sterling. We wouldn't need any new animations or GFX for this, just new sounds that we can get pretty easily.
I don't think our rocket launcher can hold 24 rockets even if you placed them throughout the whole gun, the balls that you can fire off with the Flechette gun are also coming out of nowhere. Not to mention the big blob blast from the repeater.

If not reloading, then certainly overheating?

The only weapons that I think should not have any type of reloading are:
-The demp, because it doesn't work on shots or rounds but on energy.
-The bowcaster, because I want it to play a role again in star wars games.
It's been left alone and forgotten about by too many. I suggest removing the charge function and adding in a scope and faster projectiles which will be buyable.
-The Disruptor, because otherwise it would become useless. I also think that back shots with it should be dodged instead of blocked after you buy an upgrade that I will state later on.


On to what I had in mind for the skilltree to be like;


Skill tree - potential skill ideas.
_______________________________________________

Gun Skills:

Improved accuracy - 5 points -- weapons affected: E-11, bowcaster.
Your accuracy will be almost perfect in a crouched position.

Commando's Accuracy/Improved accuracy 2 - 5 points -- weapons affected: E-11, bowcaster.
Your accuracy will be almost perfect in a crouched position, or while you are walking.

Sniper's Accuracy/Improved Accuracy 3 - 3 points -- weapons affected:
E-11, bowcaster.
Your E-11 and Bowcaster aim are unmatched, you can run, walk and crouch and shoot with almost no spray and recoil.

=-----------------

Flamethrower - 15 points
(effect to be discussed)

=-----------------
Now for this skill to work, secondary fires, should be deactivated for all weapons. I don't think this will be too hard eh Ace?

Blaster Training- 4 points -- weapons affected: E-11, Bryar pistol, DL-44 Pistol, Thermal Detonator.
Your use of light armaments has become better and more efficient due to extensive training. (Secondary fire enabled for the weapons listed, so auto fire for the E-11, Pistol charge and Thermal secondary fire.)

Blaster Training 2/Demolition training - 4 points -- Weapons affected: DEMP(primary only) , Rocket Launcher becomes available from the list of weapons (primary only), Concussion rifle becomes available (primary only), Det packs are available, Trip mines' secondary fire (proximity mine) activated.

Blaster Training 3/Rifle training - 3 points -- Weapons affected: Disruptor zoom mode enabled, Repeater buyable from the list (primary only).

=----------------

Energy weapon Training - 10 points -- Weapons effected: DEMP secondary available, Concussion rifle secondary available, Repeater secondary available.
Having studied energy weapons you now know how to use them more efficiently.
-Demp primary overloads guns and stops them from shooting while the target is under the effect of it, Secondary full shot blast drains 10-50 rounds of ammo randomly.
-Concussion primary deals 50-70 HP damage. Unless the target has shields, then only 10 shield damage. Secondary knocks the target over (it already does ) and forces it to stand up slowly like a jedi with no force Jump.
Secondary cooldown: 4 seconds.
Primary splash damage does 3 shield damage and 3 hp damage, secondary must be a direct hit.
-Repeater secondary moves very slowly and with a parabola, is pushable and deals 30 damage + knocks down a group. Drains 50 ammo.

=----------------------

Recoil control - 10 points -- Weapons affected: E-11, Bowcaster, Repeater, Pistols, Disruptor.
Use of blasters has granted you with improved recoil control.
-Rate of fire times 1.25, times 1.50 for pistols.

=----------------------

Scoped weapon upgrade. - 10 points -- Weapons affected: Bowcaster.
Salvaging enemy weapon parts you were able to make a weapon scope.
-Your bowcaster's secondary fire is replaced with a scope for taking out long targets.
-The scope is nothing other than cg_fov set really low in order to zoom in.
-Bowcaster damage is upped by 10 DP/HP from whatever it was, while shooting from zoomed mode.

You should make cg_fov impossible to set under 80, Ace.

Scoped Weapon Upgrade 2 - 5 points -- weapons affected: E-11.
Preferring preciseness over spraying, you adjust your E-11 with a scope.
-Same as Bowcaster, primary shoots, secondary sets you in scoped mode.
-Enhanced damage from shooting from scoped mode to make it more attractive (a la bowcaster).

=-----------------------

Improved explosive ammunition - 8 points -- weapons affected: Rocket Launcher, Fc1 Flechette rifle.
Your demolition skill and your proficiency with heavy weapons are unmatched.
-Rocket launcher secondary enabled, locked on rockets now follow your enemies (faster than the current ones, do more damage) and hits do a lot of damage. Rockets can be pushed and shot down, though.
-Shotgun secondary available, launches 4 balls each doing 25 DP or HP damage on a direct hit, good for clearing multiple enemies.
Cooldowns: Rocket secondary and primary cooldowns are 5 seconds each respectively.

=-----------------------

Pistol Specialization - 7 points
Your frequent use of pistols has taught you how to dual-wield them with skill.
-Pistol dual-wield a la cultist_commando with increased damage (notice it's called a HEAVY pistol..)

=--------------------------------------_____________________________=


End of gunner skills.


Simple gadgets/upgrades:
__________________________________________________ __________


Armor added!


All points that are not allocated to a skill will act as armor points.

=-------------


Emergency medpack - 8 points
Emergency medipack that can be used to heal 30 HP, must be used in meditative position. Use from inventory.
Emergency Bacta-canister - 10 points
Emergency bacta canister can be used to heal 50 HP while standing still, use from inventory.

Medistation - 20 points
Thrown out of the inventory like the ammo generator we have now, with the model of the ingame medikit taht can be found scattered across maps, anyone that stands close to it will heal 15 HP every 3 seconds. The medipack has enough battery lifetime in it to last 60 seconds before it vanishes.

=-------------------------------

Endurance Training - 10 points
Higher run speed, about 15% higher.

More Gadgets to come

=-------------------------------__________________________________

Now I'll save my Lightsaber skill thoughts for another time, but here's what I think that some Force skills should look like:

Improved Force Jump - 10 points
Increases Force Jump jumpheight to 24x regular jump height, and increases speed at which you fly up. Speed forwards remains the same ofcourse.

=------------------------

Channel the Force - 10 points
When you meditate you regain Force Points faster.

=-----------------------

Force Wave/Circle Push - 8 points (Acts like level 4 push).
The ability to use Force Push all around you in a wave form. Nothing new needed, just the radius of Force Push enlarged to be 360 degrees .
=------------------------_______________________________________

End of Force skills


Lightsaber skills: (red for damage/stat increase/active, blue for passive, green for hybrid - only for the lightsaber part here, gun part was purely cosmetic might change later.)



=------------------------

Saber Defense system EXPLAINED/TWEAKED! - The

SBD 1: Allows only deflection.
SBD 2: Allows basic reflection.
SBD 3: Allows aimed reflection. 50% Reflection-towards-crosshair rate.

If you run, your current skill level drops by one. So when you run with SBD3 you only have SBD2.
=-------------------------


Jedi Defense: - 5 points -- Lightsaber.
The jedi can now deflect shots away in a 360 degree radius, back hits drain 50% more DP than normal 180-front hits.

Advanced Jedi Defense: - 8 points -- Lightsaber
The Jedi can now deflect shots in a 360 degree radius without the back damage penalty.

Works in all styles.

=------------------------

Jedi Deflection/Manual Deflection (MD) SKILL ADDED!: - 10 points -- Lightsaber

Jedi can now tap fake at the moment a blaster bolt hits them to manually deflect them at a random enemy in range.

Only thing that needs to be done is to make this skill buyable

=------------------------

Martial Arts Training - 5 points -- Lightsaber
Kick has a wider area of effect so you can kick people away much easier.

=------------------------

Dueler's Defense. -10 points -- Lightsaber
Ripostes have a chance of disarming an opponent between medium and high and mishap.

=-----------------------
Master Parry -15 points --Lightsaber
If a Jedi is low on DP and his enemy is about to perform a superbreak in a lock, the jedi can perform a riposte in the right direction to save himself from the superbreak but only if it is timed correctly and if the Jedi still has above 30FP.

=--To be continued.


Phew, gonna take a break again.


Last edited by Maxstate; 10-20-2006 at 10:02 AM.
Maxstate is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 10-17-2006, 12:02 PM   #35
Darth Cariss
Rookie
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: The edge of Insanity EHEHEHEH!
Posts: 56
I like a lot of Maxy's above ideas. They are mostly just code-based things that don't really require any new animation or graphics, which makes them not too hard to impliment, in theory. Though I still do think offensive gadgits and things like Flame Throwers would be good.



-Also known as: Mcbober
Darth Cariss is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 10-17-2006, 04:46 PM   #36
datguru
Lurker
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 9
Ya i love those ideas max
datguru is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 10-18-2006, 04:53 AM   #37
razorace
Impressive, Terran!
 
razorace's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 9,187
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxstate
reloading
It's doable. The reason why I haven't done that is because it would require a lot of programming to add something that isn't in a game by default. The question is if we really want it or not. An argument could be made that the Star Wars galaxy uses blasters vs our primative slugthrowers because they DON'T have to be reloaded.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxstate
Gun Skills
Good ideas, but do we want the accuracy skills directly associated with the individual weapons or not? Granted, we could have accuracy as various perks but those could be secondary to the weapons skill level rank.

Also we could add prereqs skills for getting certain weapons but I personally think that over-complicates things. I think the skill points invested in a weapon count both the physical cost of the weapon and the training effort to use it effectively.

Also, I think we need to limit the number of "exotic" weapons in the game. Blasters seem to be the stable of the SW galaxy for a reason. I'm willing to accept exotic weapons to a degree, they shouldn't be overpowered. For example, I'd kind of like to see the Demp turned into the sonic cannons used by the geoniosions.

As for scopes, that's actually a great idea. For weapons that have scopes, it really shouldn't be that hard to make their secondaries be the scope zoom in. I'll add a ticket for that. Do any weapons other than the pistol, blaster, bowcaster, and disruptor have scopes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxstate
Armor
I like the idea of armor vs the shields that players currently use. I'll look into making armor a buyable skill. However, I should note that armor should be a pretty expensive skill since it allows players to last longer. Maybe "armor" should be whatever unallociated skill points the player has left over? I think MOTS used that technique. Plus this will give those players who don't upgrade their skills often at least SOMETHING for those extra earned points.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxstate
Shields
I vastly prefer the idea of armor over personal shields. I suggest we do everything in terms of armor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxstate
Ammo supply
I don't really like that idea. It sounds too much like a magical device. I think players should have a set amount of ammo and that's it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxstate
Medpacks
Sounds like a decent idea, but I suspect that forcing players into the meditation stance (for non-jedi) would just get them killed. I'm going to suggest that we just make the bacta tank a buyable item, which is an instant use, but gives a limited and slow health regeneration to the player.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxState
Endurance Training
Not a bad idea, but it might have technical issues, I'm worried that it will be too bad to sync the animation to the movement rate if we do that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxstate
Improved Force Jump
Do we want this as a perk or should it just be part of the Force Jump skill?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxstate
Channel the Force
I've been considering making one of the Lightsider's primary Force skills. However, I'm not sure what it should do beyond the meditation regeneration rate. I'm thinking that this should be a opposite of Force Rage, which will give the player faster regen and DP damage if they actively use it AND fight better than their opponent. Maybe better bolt reflection and higher mishaps for parries or something?


---Jedi Guardian of the Newbie Questions
---Masters of the Force Team Leader / Creator
---Open Jedi Project Lead Moderator / Co-Founder
razorace is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 10-18-2006, 06:07 AM   #38
Maxstate
I forgot.... what?
 
Maxstate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: ;o ;p :eek:
Posts: 2,090
Quote:
Originally Posted by razorace
It's doable. The reason why I haven't done that is because it would require a lot of programming to add something that isn't in a game by default. The question is if we really want it or not. An argument could be made that the Star Wars galaxy uses blasters vs our primative slugthrowers because they DON'T have to be reloaded.
You're right. I'm sure I personally want it since it just doesn't seen realistic that you can shoot 300 e-11 rounds in really quick succession without thinking twice. Even the vehicles have only so much ammo before they have to recharge.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raz0r
Good ideas, but do we want the accuracy skills directly associated with the individual weapons or not? Granted, we could have accuracy as various perks but those could be secondary to the weapons skill level rank.
Well the "Blaster training" skills would just be needed to open up the weapons in the list, see I don't think someone with 40 skill knows how to handle a Rocket Launcher without getting training, just as how Jedi need to train saber Attack and Defense before they can use it correctly.

The accuracy skills are related to your position and not the guns themselves, if you are walking for example you will shoot much more precisely than if you were running. If you are crouching you will shoot even more precisely etc. etc. Those things can be bought with the skill

Quote:
Originally Posted by Razor
Also we could add prereqs skills for getting certain weapons but I personally think that over-complicates things. I think the skill points invested in a weapon count both the physical cost of the weapon and the training effort to use it effectively.
If it easens up the workload for you I'm all in for it, I'm currently trying to come up with ideas that will give us a great new experience but still keep the workload to a minimum. I thought up some of these ideas (like the force jump one) to be a bit more simpler so Hocks can train his skills too! There are a lot of tricky ones in my list but I don't need you to take them all in, just the ones we all think would benefit our game

Quote:
Originally Posted by Razor
Also, I think we need to limit the number of "exotic" weapons in the game. Blasters seem to be the stable of the SW galaxy for a reason. I'm willing to accept exotic weapons to a degree, they shouldn't be overpowered. For example, I'd kind of like to see the Demp turned into the sonic cannons used by the geoniosions.
Hmm that's easy to do I guess, we would just need some new sounds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Razor
As for scopes, that's actually a great idea. For weapons that have scopes, it really shouldn't be that hard to make their secondaries be the scope zoom in. I'll add a ticket for that. Do any weapons other than the pistol, blaster, bowcaster, and disruptor have scopes?
The DEMP has a scope too and the repeater but I'm not sure about it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Razor
I like the idea of armor vs the shields that players currently use. I'll look into making armor a buyable skill. However, I should note that armor should be a pretty expensive skill since it allows players to last longer. Maybe "armor" should be whatever unallociated skill points the player has left over? I think MOTS used that technique. Plus this will give those players who don't upgrade their skills often at least SOMETHING for those extra earned points.
The only reason I added shield ideas is because I was worried that you wouldn't like the armour ideas I think that sounds like a good deal altough less visual I think it might work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Razor
I vastly prefer the idea of armor over personal shields. I suggest we do everything in terms of armor.
Hahaha great :Thumbsup:!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Razor
I don't really like that idea. It sounds too much like a magical device. I think players should have a set amount of ammo and that's it.
Okay.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Razor
Sounds like a decent idea, but I suspect that forcing players into the meditation stance (for non-jedi) would just get them killed. I'm going to suggest that we just make the bacta tank a buyable item, which is an instant use, but gives a limited and slow health regeneration to the player.
That's the thing you know, if they want to be healed they have to be vulnerable in order not to make the skill allpowerful and unbalanced

Quote:
Originally Posted by Razor
Not a bad idea, but it might have technical issues, I'm worried that it will be too bad to sync the animation to the movement rate if we do that.
We could also just enable them to riposte power attacks to get out of the lock alltogether?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Razor
Do we want this as a perk or should it just be part of the Force Jump skill?
Indeed.. I would rather want it to be a perk because a lot of people have already gotten used to the current jump.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Razor
I've been considering making one of the Lightsider's primary Force skills. However, I'm not sure what it should do beyond the meditation regeneration rate. I'm thinking that this should be a opposite of Force Rage, which will give the player faster regen and DP damage if they actively use it AND fight better than their opponent. Maybe better bolt reflection and higher mishaps for parries or something?
I agree. You like my bolt deflection ideas? That would be so cool if they got in

Maxstate is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 10-19-2006, 05:59 PM   #39
Doctor Shaft
 
Doctor Shaft's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: huh?
Posts: 193
So... a few force power ideas, along with some comments of my own.


[On power attack and making it parryable to avoid locks]

I rather like the feature of being able to force a lock for a kill. It adds an element to the game that makes players think when they're low on DP, instead of just trying to hang in there and hoping for a good parry. It also gives the offensive person a nice coup de grace moment, where they know they can go full tilt. Providing a defense against it... sure, but I'd prefer it was something that wasn't a guarentee. A Parry against it... as long as your idea for countering it isn't something that completely negates the effect it has now, reducing the lock into nothing more than a mistake or lack of skill on the defender's part.

[On "Channeling the Force"]

I was going to write all of these little ideas for using the various Force Powers for certain aspects, or how to jive with some of the ideas that Maxy had presented earlier. But I felt they were all falling short because OJP really doesn't seem like an ideal game to base on "Force Powers" that have separate abilities or the like. Rather, I think we're all kind of leaning towards introducing "Force Attributes" instead.

Force Push/Pull/Jump/Grip/Lightning/Speed/Absorb/Seeing already have a firm place in the game. They work, they function well. They should have their own attribute category. Then other abilities we "invent" can be introduced into other categories.

Previously, I had mentioned an idea of having users invest Skill Points into certain categories, and in order to unlock "The Dark Side", the user would have to spend even more points in certain areas to "reach" that point. So one would invest points in Push and Pull, and then choose to go "onward" and invest points in the Dark Side to have Lightning. But I guess that wouldn't really work out in the end. What would a light side user do with all those unspent points.

So instead, I think the system should be open, as it already is. But have certain powers with high costs than they currently have. Powers get placed into sections, and but certain powers would have higher cost ratings.

I think "Channeling the Force" should be a category, and we go about devising both a "Light" and "Dark" way of channeling. For the Dark Side, we have powers like Rage. For the Light... well, we're still thinking.


I've probably rewritten this post a million times, and I still don't know what I'm talking about. I just think we should think of more ideas that move away from the "Point and Shoot" philosophy. We already have enough of those.

The only problem I see with maxy's channel idea right now is that it's both "boring" to use, and might not see much utility in a duel, whereas the rage idea is usable any time.


Watch this we will, or lay down I shall.... DIBS I have!
Doctor Shaft is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 10-19-2006, 06:05 PM   #40
Maxstate
I forgot.... what?
 
Maxstate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: ;o ;p :eek:
Posts: 2,090
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor Shaft
So... a few force power ideas, along with some comments of my own.


[On power attack and making it parryable to avoid locks]

I rather like the feature of being able to force a lock for a kill. It adds an element to the game that makes players think when they're low on DP, instead of just trying to hang in there and hoping for a good parry. It also gives the offensive person a nice coup de grace moment, where they know they can go full tilt. Providing a defense against it... sure, but I'd prefer it was something that wasn't a guarentee. A Parry against it... as long as your idea for countering it isn't something that completely negates the effect it has now, reducing the lock into nothing more than a mistake or lack of skill on the defender's part.

[On "Channeling the Force"]

I was going to write all of these little ideas for using the various Force Powers for certain aspects, or how to jive with some of the ideas that Maxy had presented earlier. But I felt they were all falling short because OJP really doesn't seem like an ideal game to base on "Force Powers" that have separate abilities or the like. Rather, I think we're all kind of leaning towards introducing "Force Attributes" instead.

Force Push/Pull/Jump/Grip/Lightning/Speed/Absorb/Seeing already have a firm place in the game. They work, they function well. They should have their own attribute category. Then other abilities we "invent" can be introduced into other categories.

Previously, I had mentioned an idea of having users invest Skill Points into certain categories, and in order to unlock "The Dark Side", the user would have to spend even more points in certain areas to "reach" that point. So one would invest points in Push and Pull, and then choose to go "onward" and invest points in the Dark Side to have Lightning. But I guess that wouldn't really work out in the end. What would a light side user do with all those unspent points.

So instead, I think the system should be open, as it already is. But have certain powers with high costs than they currently have. Powers get placed into sections, and but certain powers would have higher cost ratings.

I think "Channeling the Force" should be a category, and we go about devising both a "Light" and "Dark" way of channeling. For the Dark Side, we have powers like Rage. For the Light... well, we're still thinking.


I've probably rewritten this post a million times, and I still don't know what I'm talking about. I just think we should think of more ideas that move away from the "Point and Shoot" philosophy. We already have enough of those.

The only problem I see with maxy's channel idea right now is that it's both "boring" to use, and might not see much utility in a duel, whereas the rage idea is usable any time.
Yeah I get that alot, I start typing something that sounds great and while I read it it justs sounds like the worst idea ever. And yeah, channeling the force could become boring. I don't like rage because it reminds me too much of Base spamming, you would really have to work it out very extensively for it to work.

I'd rather see a kind of hybrid of a previous idea of someone here and your idea; overpowering Force powers. Getting a bit more effect from a force power when this and that factor is met. Circle push for example, "Force Wave", Razor likes it too .

Maxstate is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Post a new thread. Add a reply to this thread. Indicate all threads in this forum as read. Subscribe to this forum. RSS feed: this forum RSS feed: all forums
Go Back   LucasForums > Network > JediKnight Series > Community > Hosted Forums > Open Jedi Project (OJP) > The experience system & skills and abilities thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:12 PM.

LFNetwork, LLC ©2002-2011 - All rights reserved.
Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.