lfnetwork.com mark read register faq members calendar

Thread: The experience system & skills and abilities thread
Thread Tools Display Modes
Post a new thread. Add a reply to this thread. Indicate all threads in this forum as read. Subscribe to this forum. RSS feed: this forum RSS feed: all forums
Old 10-19-2006, 07:00 PM   #41
razorace
Impressive, Terran!
 
razorace's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 9,172
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor Shaft
[On power attack and making it parryable to avoid locks]
The current system makes parrying an attack fake prevent the saberlock. However, in terms of MP points this situation pretty much neutralizes the effects on each other. The blocker only gets -1 MP and the attacker gets 1 MP.


---Jedi Guardian of the Newbie Questions
---Masters of the Force Team Leader / Creator
---Open Jedi Project Lead Moderator / Co-Founder
razorace is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 10-20-2006, 07:54 AM   #42
razorace
Impressive, Terran!
 
razorace's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 9,172
In other news, I need more feedback on the skill point costs for the current skills. They need to be balanced more but I'm not sure what needs to be tweaked and by how much.


---Jedi Guardian of the Newbie Questions
---Masters of the Force Team Leader / Creator
---Open Jedi Project Lead Moderator / Co-Founder
razorace is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 10-20-2006, 08:30 AM   #43
Maxstate
I forgot.... what?
 
Maxstate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: ;o ;p :eek:
Posts: 2,090
Quote:
Originally Posted by razorace
In other news, I need more feedback on the skill point costs for the current skills. They need to be balanced more but I'm not sure what needs to be tweaked and by how much.
Jump:
Well as I said, I'm hoping you'll add that jump skill so we can have 4 buyable Jump skills:
-Jump 1 - 7 points
-Jump 2 - 5 Points
-Jump 3 - 4 points
-Jump 4 - 10 Points -- Jump 4 makes you jump faster and increases possible jump height to 24x regular jump height.

Push:
-Push 4 - 8 Points - Pushes everything around you in a circle. Good for blowing away projectiles and low DP/high mishap duelists if you need a break
As I said, you need to use the Deathxx anims for push knockback Ace, we only have one right now and it's pretty boring.

Pull 1 - 8 points - Ability to pull items and weapons from the ground to you.
Pull 2 - 5 points - Ability to pull weapons from gunners if they are more than 20 points under your skill level. Only able to pull if your crosshair is pointing at them and they are running or jumping. You can pull the guns from NPC's by aiming and pulling no matter what.
Pull 3 - 5 points - You can trip running people over by aiming at them and pulling them. They do not fly towards you.

I like the rest of the force points

But I think that the jetpack needs to either be capped for fuel and given a cooldown or it needs to become a burst-controlled jetpack.
Also, if we get the pistol skills in there I'd like the pistol to cost more. Since it's a great weapon and you have unlimited ammo, if you get more damage and/or dual pistols then they're going to be a force to be reckoned with.

Maxstate is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 10-20-2006, 05:02 PM   #44
Doctor Shaft
 
Doctor Shaft's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: huh?
Posts: 193
Honestly, I think points isn't all that will "fix" the current Force system.

I'm a supporter of being able to "choose what you like" in terms of Force Powers, but I think that the system would benefit more from having a "tier" system, in that you can't access certain tiers until you've invested points in a variety of categories.

The problem we have now with the powers is that, especially in the beginning rounds, players can quickly specialize in high use powers, like lightning. While this can quite easily be countered by either also investing in lightning, or matching with absorb, it kind of detracts from the game.

Last night's test was fun, and I thought it was hilarious getting shocked and then shot to death on the floor. That feature should remain, as far as I'm concerned. The problem is that it's a feature that happens too soon, or at too low a level, to the point that players can opt to circumvent the saber system and just specialize in strong powers to overwhelm everyone, other Force Powers be darned.


By forcing players to invest in certain power "trees" you can prevent the 'uber-tweaking'. Granted, we're all still going to pick what is most effective and efficient, but it would create a better feeling if everyone wasn't "The Dark Lord of the Sith that can shoot lightning... but can't jump over a crate or block a Force Push."


I'm currently thinking of writing up a rough draft for categories and tiers... but we're still short on ideas for other Force Powers. Also, would we actually WANT to have the powers tiered and categorized? I think it's a good idea. I think buying different saber styles, etc., and having everything lead into one another would be a great system. But that would require more work... and ideas.

There's always a downside.


Watch this we will, or lay down I shall.... DIBS I have!
Doctor Shaft is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 10-20-2006, 05:46 PM   #45
razorace
Impressive, Terran!
 
razorace's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 9,172
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxstate
Max's last post
I'd rather avoid going to a 3 tiered skill system if we could. We do get three levels of differences as is. Which is quite a bit to work with already. If we want to make Force powers more powerful, we could shift the level 3 stuff into level 2 and then expand level 3.

But I suppose we could look into how complicated it would be. I think Azymn did it for FM3. We'll have to check that out. Submit a bug ticket task to remind me to check it out.

Also, is there are particular reason why you want Pull to trip people rather than pull them towards the user?

As for the jetpack, I don't think it's too bad at the moment. I've found that it's really easy to get killed by reflected bolts or missiles because you don't have any DP while in the air.

Finally, we'll have to see about the pistol aim stuff. I just haven't gotten to it yet.


---Jedi Guardian of the Newbie Questions
---Masters of the Force Team Leader / Creator
---Open Jedi Project Lead Moderator / Co-Founder
razorace is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 10-20-2006, 05:57 PM   #46
razorace
Impressive, Terran!
 
razorace's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 9,172
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor Shaft
Shaft's Last post
I'm still on the fence about having prereqs to powers. It looks like adding prereqs isn't too complicated by it might get really tricky if we aren't careful.


---Jedi Guardian of the Newbie Questions
---Masters of the Force Team Leader / Creator
---Open Jedi Project Lead Moderator / Co-Founder
razorace is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 10-20-2006, 06:02 PM   #47
razorace
Impressive, Terran!
 
razorace's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 9,172
I'm going to suggest that maybe ALL Force powers should have some initial prereq. I'd rather not have to create a 'Force Sensitive' skill, so I'm going to suggest that Force Seeing level 1 be the prereq for all the other Force powers. That way, you have to invest in at least one level of Force Seeing before you can access other players.


---Jedi Guardian of the Newbie Questions
---Masters of the Force Team Leader / Creator
---Open Jedi Project Lead Moderator / Co-Founder
razorace is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 10-20-2006, 06:16 PM   #48
Doctor Shaft
 
Doctor Shaft's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: huh?
Posts: 193
Well, that's sort of what I meant. The "pre-reqs" don't need to be complicated or overblown. Just some kind of control.

The idea being that players should at least have invested points in mundane powers before they become "Shock Masters".

If I had to make a quick example, it would be like this:

Force Grip: Grip players with the Force violently.
Pre-Reqs: Player has invested points in at least four different powers in whatever "tier" we'd place Grip in.

The way this would work would keep it simple. Players wouldn't have to unload tons of points into push or jump just to get access. Instead, they'd have to have at least filled out a certain number of powers from a category.

So if a category of powers had five Force powers in it, And Grip was in the "next category" (all theoretically speaking), then the pre-req would be something like "invest points in at least 3 powers in Tier 1". For lightning, it would be something like 4 powers. So they can still choose to forgo something, but have to invest elsewhere.

This way, early game choices wouldn't introduce "Shock Masters" or "Super Absorbers" early on. Instead, everyone would have a more "well-rounded" model, and as the game progresses, more powers would appear in battle.


If powers were put into something like three tiers, the requirements could be based on this:

Tier 1 powers: Instant access... all neutral powers.
Tier 2 powers: Light and Dark abilities... mostly passive abilities (rage, protect)
Tier 3 powers: Abilities that are cast upon others, both Light and Dark. Lightning. Etc. Advanced saber abilities (maybe).

Each level of power would be "granted" after a player had filled enough from the other tiers. 4 from Tier 1. 2 or 3 from tier 2 (depending on how much was there), and then Tier 3 is open season afterward. All you have to do is front the initial cost of the power (which would be high).

So, if a player really wanted lightning early on, they could conceivably do that. But it will be more expensive to get their, than it would be to advance other, earlier powers into higher levels. So there's a higher trade than there currently exists now.


Watch this we will, or lay down I shall.... DIBS I have!
Doctor Shaft is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 10-20-2006, 10:26 PM   #49
razorace
Impressive, Terran!
 
razorace's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 9,172
ok, lets talk specifics then. To start, I suggest that we make ALL force powers (except possibly saber attack) rely on the player having at least one level in Force Seeing. As such, Force See level 1 would be the equivilent of the skill cost of being Force sensitive.

Beyond that, maybe require a certain number of ranks in neutral powers before the offensive dark side powers become available?


---Jedi Guardian of the Newbie Questions
---Masters of the Force Team Leader / Creator
---Open Jedi Project Lead Moderator / Co-Founder
razorace is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 10-21-2006, 11:21 AM   #50
Sushi_CW
Rookie
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 221
I like this prereq idea.

Oh yeah, one more thing... right now, you can shift all of your powers around at will without having to die first. This could be potentially unbalancing: imagine a player who shifts everything to lightning to zap someone, then shifts those points to jump to quickly get somewhere, then shifts them back to lightning. Basically, they get all force powers for the price of one, provided they're willing to take 3 seconds to open the force menu and shift them around. Are we OK with this?
Sushi_CW is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 10-21-2006, 12:08 PM   #51
UDM
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 922
Actually I did suggest the exact same thing a few months ago heh

I liked the idea then, and still like it now. If you guys have played System Shock 2, that's exactly how this model works. Very good system that's flexible, yet provides balance

And sushi makes a good point too. I have an idea to this. When players increase their attributes, changes only take place 60 seconds later, upon hitting the "Apply Changes" button on the profile menu. This prevents players from exploiting the system by changing their attributes on the fly as and when they like it

In addition, I have a suggestion. Could we have it such that depending on which skills/force powers we have more points in, our title varies? For example, if we invest all our points in saber combat, then our title becomes Jedi Guardian. If force powers are our forte, then we become Jedi Consular. If force powers skill points and saber combat SP equates more or less the same, then we are Jedi Sentinel.

Similarly, if we have like a lot of points in the pistol/gadgets section, then we can be called Scoundrel. If we have lots of points in the heavy weapons section, then we can be called Soldier. What's even cooler is if our title appears next to our nicknames. So it'd be like UDM <Jedi Guardian>

I just had an interesting thought from this. What would happen if we pitted 2 Jedis against each other - one with no force powers, but maxed out saber skills; another Jedi has no saber skills, but 1337 force powers. The reason why this cannot workout in vanilla JKA is because force will always be 1337er than the saber, esp with lightning and grip

So I've got an idea. Maybe we can have additional skills for the Guardian, like Force Resistance and Acrobatics (thus Force Jump does not determine your acrobatics). The higher your resistance, the more you can use DP to resist force attacks. The higher your Acrobatics, the less the moves will eat up force power eg. wall running, wall clinging etc. That would make for some very interesting fights, and at the same time no character becomes all mighty

Some suggestions that belong to the non-Force section ie. saber skills

Force Resistance
Acrobatics
Strength (determines how much you increase enemy mishap only)

Last edited by UDM; 10-21-2006 at 12:20 PM.
UDM is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 10-21-2006, 02:12 PM   #52
Doctor Shaft
 
Doctor Shaft's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: huh?
Posts: 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by razorace
ok, lets talk specifics then. To start, I suggest that we make ALL force powers (except possibly saber attack) rely on the player having at least one level in Force Seeing. As such, Force See level 1 would be the equivilent of the skill cost of being Force sensitive.

Beyond that, maybe require a certain number of ranks in neutral powers before the offensive dark side powers become available?

Agreed then. I think this is a good idea. This way, we don't have Jedi running around who can't see who's coming. It's a power that is oft ignored. Might as well force people to include it at least a little bit. Heck, you can't even finish certain single player levels without having Force Seeing. This would also prevent folks from starting a low level game with tons of other powers, hence putting gunners on the "trash" list since they'd have no early options to defend against being constantly pushed and pulled from afar.



Specifics: I'm bad at this stuff, but let's see.

[Neutral Power Tier] - Pre-req Force Seeing
All neutral powers would fit in this category. This is effectively Tier 1. The only pre-requisite for taking powers in Tier 1 is a single level of Force Seeing. The following powers would be available in the neutral tier section (based on what powers we currently have available).

Jump/Push/Pull/Speed/Seeing (five powers total)

[Passive Force Power Tier] - Pre-Reqs - 3 Neutral Power Tiers initiated.
Passive Force Powers of both the Light and Dark Side would go here. This would include powers such as Rage, Protect, Heal, Mind Trick, or anything else we come up with. Basically, status effect powers would be here. Rational being that mid-tier Jedi and Sith had access to pretty neat abilities, such as Maul's rage and Obi-Wan's constant patience.

[Final Tier] Pre-Reqs - 4 Neutral Powers, 2 Passive Powers (theoretical)
The Final Tier would be wear all the "ultimate" abilities we see from the movies would go. This would essentially be the "Hero" tier, where the greatest villains and heros tested their mettle against one another. Force Lightning, with its terrible abilities, would be here. Any other Force Powers, like Drain, Grip, etc., would also be featured here. Any light side powers we invent, even stuff like Absorb could be fitted in here (absorb is pretty powerful in OJP at the moment... I was able to completely nullify Force attacks with it, even if it is draining).

And there you have it. In terms of how much each power would cost initially, I've thought of an initial system, but only testing and more imput would create excellent values.

Tier 1 -
Force Seeing - 5 points (become Force sensitive)
Force Jump - Max's 7 point seems okay... encourage Jedi mobility
Force Pull/Push - 8 point start is fine.
Force Speed - 7 again... what use does this power currently have?

Tier 2 -
All passive Force Powers start with a cost of 10... progressive increases are much less... like half the cost. This was people choose a power in the beginning of matches, and tend to stick with it, as opposed to quickly hording what they can get. Final level of powe would again cost 10.

Tier 3 -
12 point start... then steep decrease as they increase the power. Final level of course would be high cost again of 12.

I'll make another post with Force Power ideas I've recently had cross my mind.


Watch this we will, or lay down I shall.... DIBS I have!
Doctor Shaft is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 10-21-2006, 03:06 PM   #53
JRHockney*
Moderator
 
JRHockney*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,255
Hot Topic Starter LFN Staff Member 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sushi_CW
I like this prereq idea.

Oh yeah, one more thing... right now, you can shift all of your powers around at will without having to die first. This could be potentially unbalancing: imagine a player who shifts everything to lightning to zap someone, then shifts those points to jump to quickly get somewhere, then shifts them back to lightning. Basically, they get all force powers for the price of one, provided they're willing to take 3 seconds to open the force menu and shift them around. Are we OK with this?
Actually, they could do the same thing between lives anyways. I suggested this because if some did change and start spamming force powers between lives, the other player would be screwed and unable to adjust powers to block before he's dead. While this might make the spammer able to adjust his powers faster, it also gives the defender a chance to switch as well.

Quote:
even stuff like Absorb could be fitted in here (absorb is pretty powerful in OJP at the moment... I was able to completely nullify Force attacks with it, even if it is draining).
Im not sure if absorb should be here. This is the power that should be used to defeat force spammers. The drain on absorb is fast enough and you have to turn it on or off to even use. I'd say that at least level 1 should be available for beginners. That way you don't have all the new players on a server getting completely owned by even moderate point level players who spam force powers. Hmm, in fact, why dont we make it so that you cant have more than level 1 per tier?

Also, unless we can come up with a rational movielike usage for protection and drain, they probably wont be in the game because they werent in the movies.

I do kind of like this tier idea overall though.


Game screen name: Master Jon Hoc Ni

UDM Quote: in singapore, gangsters are...skinny jacka**es who think they can 0wn you. they hurl insults at u, and then lose in a fight. n00bs

Last edited by JRHockney*; 10-21-2006 at 03:28 PM.
JRHockney* is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 10-21-2006, 03:20 PM   #54
Doctor Shaft
 
Doctor Shaft's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: huh?
Posts: 193
More Force Power Suggestions (Recently Edited Too)

Based on the tier suggestions, I'd "place" some of the powers in the imaginary tiers.


Force Drain -----> Shroud of the Dark Side (Tier 3)

The Dark Side clouds everything. A big theme in the Prequel Movies. The Jedi constantly complain of their connection to the Force being somewhat clouded, or even weakened. A user of the Shroud weakens their targets connection to the Force, causing a draining effect against the opponent, and reducing the effectiveness of their attacks temporarily.

Use:
A spell cast just like Drain. This can either be a cone like "shot", or we could modify it to act like a passive field that quickly shoots out. Field or shot lasts one second. Drain user cannot reinitiate the cloud until after a 60 second cooldown (no constant shroud barrages). Opponents attack level is also temporarily drained for a few seconds (5 seconds max). Gunners find their aiming skewed and weapon damage decreased. Can be countered by target's Force Sense level (having it turned on during casting). Other counters include Battle Meditation (since it would reincrease DP damage per swing).

Effect:
The Shroud user loses a sizeable FP chunk (50-30-20). Upon use, the target's Mishap Meter shoots up towards critical levels, allowing for an early disarm, heavy bounce from a parry, knockdown, or the like. DPs are also somewhat drained (10-20-25 pts).

(Lord Sidious quickly surprises and coup de graces several Jedi Masters that were considered master-swordsman. Perhaps they're senses were clouded by the quick surprised attack)


Force Heal ------------------> Force Meditation (Tier 2)

Qui-Gon Jinn fought valiantly against the young and able Darth Maul. After being tossed around, kicked, and tested for lengths of time, Jinn is given a brief respite to rest. Slouching to his knees, he meditates, regaining his strength.

Use:
User meditates (via using the power). During meditation, user cannot Dodge, block Force Pushes, or defend against any other distractions. Activating other powers during meditation immediately ceases the benefits of the meditation. With each use, the players FP and DP must be above "Red" level.(Jedi has to be at least somewhat conscious of his connection... no quick redliner saves).

Effect:
During the duration of use, the users FPs regenerate more rapidly. In addition, HP also slowly regenerates, though at a slower rate than normal FP regen.



Force Protect ------------------------> Battle Meditation (Tier 2)

A Jedi's strengths flows through the Force. When using this power, the user gathers strength through allowing the Force to flow through them, increasing certain attributes in battle during use.

Use:
Jedi activates the power. There is an initial cost (40/30/20), followed by constant drain. The aura can be countered or shut off the following ways: Being successfully attacked by the Force (Knockdown from Push/Pull, Lightning, Grip), knockdown from explosives or shock weapons, blaster shots successfully landing (breaching Dodge), a Mishap occurring (disarm, knockdown), or due to poor performance (4 consecutive hits unblocked or parried). FP constantly drains while in use. Once FP pool reaches 40%, the power can no longer be used. User gains FP bonus for every mishap he incurs against his opponent, or successful victory against an opponent while turned on.

Effect:
The Jedi's defenses are raised while the aura is active. The duration and success is based on performance. While active, the Jedi gains a brief DP (20/30/40) bonus due to their connection with the Force, and their successful blocks and parries increase a users instance of mishap sooner (more mishap added to opponent per successful block). In addition, blaster deflection is increased in efficiency. During this time, Jedi's FP slowly decreases, but is given a defense bonus as well (20%/30%/40%).

(Obi-Wan Kenobi shows us that he truly trusts in the Force throughout the films. Rocket blasts distract him, but upon the initial hit he seems to leap away unharmed. While he is certainly not immortal, he shows a toughness and resilience that many Jedi lack. During fighting, he quickly defends and against and disarms the might Grievous in single combat).


Force Mind Trick ----------------> Battlemind (yeah, I'm ripping off d20)

Using the Force as an ally, the user briefly steals himself against his opponent, allowing him to use his lightsaber abilities more effectively against them. Through the focus of this power, one's morale and fighting spirit is augmented.

Use:
Cast against one opponent, or several based on level, This attack is similar to rage, but is rather a more focused version that also costs more, and affects only the number of opponents the user can focus on (1 at level 1, 2 within a field of vision (no aim), and several at the highest level). The effect is countered by having at least Force Seeing lvl2 activated before the casting. Battlemind is also countered after user is "distracted" (see Battle Meditation).

Effects:
The attacks of the caster are briefly augmented to cause more DP damage per hit against the person it is used against. Speed of saber swings, etc., are not increased. DP augmentation is increased based on level (5%/10%/15%). FP drain is also based on level (40/30/20).


That's all I have for now. I'm busy ripping off of d20 Force Powers as well. Many of them aren't helpful, but the names are useful, and some would work well, I think.

Criticize away.


Watch this we will, or lay down I shall.... DIBS I have!

Last edited by Doctor Shaft; 10-21-2006 at 03:35 PM.
Doctor Shaft is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 10-21-2006, 03:25 PM   #55
Maxstate
I forgot.... what?
 
Maxstate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: ;o ;p :eek:
Posts: 2,090
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sushi_CW
I like this prereq idea.

Oh yeah, one more thing... right now, you can shift all of your powers around at will without having to die first. This could be potentially unbalancing: imagine a player who shifts everything to lightning to zap someone, then shifts those points to jump to quickly get somewhere, then shifts them back to lightning. Basically, they get all force powers for the price of one, provided they're willing to take 3 seconds to open the force menu and shift them around. Are we OK with this?
I thought about this, we might solve it by taking the "buy area" idea that many games have. First one was CS I think, Battlefront has it too. I don't know if it's possible, but we would have glowly/lighted areas around the map where you can walk into and stand in to change your points.

Maxstate is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 10-21-2006, 03:32 PM   #56
Doctor Shaft
 
Doctor Shaft's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: huh?
Posts: 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRHockney*
Im not sure if absorb should be here. This is the power that should be used to defeat force spammers. The drain on absorb is fast enough and you have to turn it on or off to even use. I'd say that at least level 1 should be available for beginners. That way you don't have all the new players on a server getting completely owned by even moderate point level players who spam force powers. Hmm, in fact, why dont we make it so that you cant have more than level 1 per tier?

Also, unless we can come up with a rational movielike usage for protection and drain, they probably wont be in the game because they werent in the movies.

I do kind of like this tier idea overall though.
You have a good point here. Absorb should probably be more of a neutral power, in that sense. Something that everyone can use, since as they get stronger in the Force, they would be more able to "nullify" one another's attacks.

Why not balance this power by making it Tier 1, but simply putting a very high cost on its use (initial cost 8 or 10... subsequent levels 20 and 30).

This way, if a light side user didn't want to use the dark side, they could opt for a much more powerful Absorb ability.


Watch this we will, or lay down I shall.... DIBS I have!
Doctor Shaft is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 10-21-2006, 03:38 PM   #57
Maxstate
I forgot.... what?
 
Maxstate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: ;o ;p :eek:
Posts: 2,090
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor Shaft
You have a good point here. Absorb should probably be more of a neutral power, in that sense. Something that everyone can use, since as they get stronger in the Force, they would be more able to "nullify" one another's attacks.

Why not balance this power by making it Tier 1, but simply putting a very high cost on its use (initial cost 8 or 10... subsequent levels 20 and 30).

This way, if a light side user didn't want to use the dark side, they could opt for a much more powerful Absorb ability.
(I liked your previous ideas)

I think Absorb should be a universal power that nullifies all force power attacks up to a level. Allowing them only to work if the opponent is at high mishap/low DP. This makes weak and struggling Jedi vulnerable to Force, makes for good finishers and even better realism.

I also think skill should have to do with it but I can't come up with anything now.

Maxstate is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 10-21-2006, 03:45 PM   #58
Doctor Shaft
 
Doctor Shaft's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: huh?
Posts: 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxstate
(I liked your previous ideas)

I think Absorb should be a universal power that nullifies all force power attacks up to a level. Allowing them only to work if the opponent is at high mishap/low DP. This makes weak and struggling Jedi vulnerable to Force, makes for good finishers and even better realism.

I also think skill should have to do with it but I can't come up with anything now.

Agreed, but I still think it should be a power that is both turned on and drains FP rapidly. This would be the "skill" equation. If Absorb simply nullified attacks automatically, all the time, then it elimnates the need for opposing push and pull scores that are currently in place. Might as well just buy absorb.

Basically, if opponents fight and the attacker manages to "sneak in" a Force Push, and the other user doesn't have the defense for it, good on them. If the defender uses Absorb at the right time, then they get the bonus of having defended against the attack entirely, and absorbing the blow. Also, they wouldn't be stunned, so they can follow through with the attack while the push user still has to wait for the cool down.


Watch this we will, or lay down I shall.... DIBS I have!
Doctor Shaft is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 10-21-2006, 05:30 PM   #59
razorace
Impressive, Terran!
 
razorace's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 9,172
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor Shaft
Force Drain -----> Shroud of the Dark Side (Tier 3)
Force Heal ------------------> Force Meditation (Tier 2)
Force Protect ------------------------> Battle Meditation (Tier 2)
Force Mind Trick ----------------> Battlemind (yeah, I'm ripping off d20)
Maybe some of those powers might have do better as the higher level component of other powers? For example:
Shroud of the Dark Side -> Force Rage
Battlemind -> Channeling the Force


---Jedi Guardian of the Newbie Questions
---Masters of the Force Team Leader / Creator
---Open Jedi Project Lead Moderator / Co-Founder
razorace is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 10-21-2006, 06:56 PM   #60
Doctor Shaft
 
Doctor Shaft's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: huh?
Posts: 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by razorace
Maybe some of those powers might have do better as the higher level component of other powers? For example:
Shroud of the Dark Side -> Force Rage
Battlemind -> Channeling the Force
You're on to something here. It certainly would reduce the need of having 30 different powers, all with power slots (some of which would be, admittedly, pretty useless initially).

If they were the higher component, then you could simply choose the arbitrary number for each effect. You'd always get what you paid for, and power selection would even be predictable (User goes down the Rage Path, or User Goes down the Channeling of the Force Path, etc).


Watch this we will, or lay down I shall.... DIBS I have!
Doctor Shaft is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 10-23-2006, 05:08 AM   #61
razorace
Impressive, Terran!
 
razorace's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 9,172
So, I've gotten a basic wrist flamethrower working. Should we treat it like a weapon or like a item?


---Jedi Guardian of the Newbie Questions
---Masters of the Force Team Leader / Creator
---Open Jedi Project Lead Moderator / Co-Founder
razorace is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 10-23-2006, 05:45 AM   #62
razorace
Impressive, Terran!
 
razorace's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 9,172
Also, about Bacta, I'm trying to come up with a realistic way to do it but I can't come up with something yet. Realistically any sort of shot should kick in pretty quickly and probably last quite a while. However, for gameplay reasons, I can understand if we'd want to limit it's effect (maybe blood stream injection of bacta wears off quickly). Any suggestions?


---Jedi Guardian of the Newbie Questions
---Masters of the Force Team Leader / Creator
---Open Jedi Project Lead Moderator / Co-Founder
razorace is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 10-23-2006, 10:30 AM   #63
Maxstate
I forgot.... what?
 
Maxstate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: ;o ;p :eek:
Posts: 2,090
Quote:
Originally Posted by razorace
Also, about Bacta, I'm trying to come up with a realistic way to do it but I can't come up with something yet. Realistically any sort of shot should kick in pretty quickly and probably last quite a while. However, for gameplay reasons, I can understand if we'd want to limit it's effect (maybe blood stream injection of bacta wears off quickly). Any suggestions?
I think maybe more potent or more uses should be buyable for starters, I'd like to see it work as something that heals you over time. Like 15 HP every 3 seconds for 15 seconds? It shouldn't be instaheal. Jedi Heal I think should work on the same principle and I also think that it should only be usable after/when you meditate.

Nice job on the flamethrower, can't wait to use it
It should be an item I think, would bring more use to the inventory again. Unless making it a weapon is easier for ya.

Maxstate is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 10-23-2006, 04:21 PM   #64
razorace
Impressive, Terran!
 
razorace's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 9,172
We do have two versions of the bacta tanks. A normal one and a large one.


---Jedi Guardian of the Newbie Questions
---Masters of the Force Team Leader / Creator
---Open Jedi Project Lead Moderator / Co-Founder
razorace is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 10-23-2006, 06:05 PM   #65
JRHockney*
Moderator
 
JRHockney*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,255
Hot Topic Starter LFN Staff Member 
Quote:
Nice job on the flamethrower, can't wait to use it
It should be an item I think, would bring more use to the inventory again. Unless making it a weapon is easier for ya.
Hmm, unless the flamethrower has some other use other than killing people, I think it should be a weapon.

Idea: since there's no repeater in the movies, what would you guys think about using the clone rifle that MB2 uses?


Game screen name: Master Jon Hoc Ni

UDM Quote: in singapore, gangsters are...skinny jacka**es who think they can 0wn you. they hurl insults at u, and then lose in a fight. n00bs
JRHockney* is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 10-23-2006, 06:16 PM   #66
razorace
Impressive, Terran!
 
razorace's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 9,172
I suppose we could.


---Jedi Guardian of the Newbie Questions
---Masters of the Force Team Leader / Creator
---Open Jedi Project Lead Moderator / Co-Founder
razorace is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 10-24-2006, 02:50 AM   #67
Darth Cariss
Rookie
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: The edge of Insanity EHEHEHEH!
Posts: 56
I think the Flame Thrower should be an item, or it's own button (Like MBII, Special Button 1).



-Also known as: Mcbober
Darth Cariss is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 10-24-2006, 09:03 PM   #68
Sushi_CW
Rookie
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 221
I say weapon.
Sushi_CW is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 10-25-2006, 12:51 AM   #69
JRHockney*
Moderator
 
JRHockney*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,255
Hot Topic Starter LFN Staff Member 
I'm more inclined to say weapon as well just because I'm not sure if constant access to it is a good idea in terms of balance. MB2 sort of does it that way, but thats only together with a pistol. I mean we're talking in back and forth between rocket launchers (or another power weapon) and the flame thrower here. Also it just seems that a gun that kill people as you shoot them is more of a weapon. I don't know, we need to be careful on this one.


Game screen name: Master Jon Hoc Ni

UDM Quote: in singapore, gangsters are...skinny jacka**es who think they can 0wn you. they hurl insults at u, and then lose in a fight. n00bs
JRHockney* is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 10-25-2006, 04:11 AM   #70
razorace
Impressive, Terran!
 
razorace's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 9,172
I agree. Flamethrowers are very much an anti-jedi weapon and need to be treated very carefully. Personally, I've been thinking that using the flamethrower drains your jetpack fuel. That way mercs can't overspam the flamethrower without sacrificing their ability to use their jetpack.


---Jedi Guardian of the Newbie Questions
---Masters of the Force Team Leader / Creator
---Open Jedi Project Lead Moderator / Co-Founder
razorace is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 11-02-2006, 04:34 AM   #71
razorace
Impressive, Terran!
 
razorace's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 9,172
It's been brought up that it might be fun/interesting to have a player's experience points transfer between maps/map_restarts. What do you guys think about that?


---Jedi Guardian of the Newbie Questions
---Masters of the Force Team Leader / Creator
---Open Jedi Project Lead Moderator / Co-Founder
razorace is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 11-02-2006, 10:09 AM   #72
plasticrat
Lurker
 
plasticrat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 9
thats a great idea razor, especially if map rotations are like 30 to 40 mins, oh, and I think the flamethrower should be an item, it seems to be that sort of accessible thing.
plasticrat is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 11-02-2006, 10:24 AM   #73
Sushi_CW
Rookie
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 221
I'd be fine with letting the points reset after each map. It ensures that all players are on equal footing, at least in the beginning of a map rotation.
Sushi_CW is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 11-02-2006, 12:27 PM   #74
Wytchking
Rookie
 
Wytchking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: England
Posts: 86
Quote:
Force Drain -----> Shroud of the Dark Side (Tier 3)

The Dark Side clouds everything. A big theme in the Prequel Movies. The Jedi constantly complain of their connection to the Force being somewhat clouded, or even weakened. A user of the Shroud weakens their targets connection to the Force, causing a draining effect against the opponent, and reducing the effectiveness of their attacks temporarily.

Use:
A spell cast just like Drain. This can either be a cone like "shot", or we could modify it to act like a passive field that quickly shoots out. Field or shot lasts one second. Drain user cannot reinitiate the cloud until after a 60 second cooldown (no constant shroud barrages). Opponents attack level is also temporarily drained for a few seconds (5 seconds max). Gunners find their aiming skewed and weapon damage decreased. Can be countered by target's Force Sense level (having it turned on during casting). Other counters include Battle Meditation (since it would reincrease DP damage per swing).

Effect:
The Shroud user loses a sizeable FP chunk (50-30-20). Upon use, the target's Mishap Meter shoots up towards critical levels, allowing for an early disarm, heavy bounce from a parry, knockdown, or the like. DPs are also somewhat drained (10-20-25 pts).

(Lord Sidious quickly surprises and coup de graces several Jedi Masters that were considered master-swordsman. Perhaps they're senses were clouded by the quick surprised attack)
I personally don't like the sound of shroud of the darkside. What about something more along the lines of DF2's force throw as used by Darth Vader? It would require you to add more throwable objects to maps (random placing?) but it could work like this:

Level 1: A delay before the object moves
Level 2: No delay
Level 3: Faster object movement/Multiple objects

Perhaps put a red glow around the object so the opponent knows it's coming and make it pushable. If it does hit it could do some damage and knock them into a parry or you could make it so they dodge it.
Wytchking is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 11-02-2006, 02:01 PM   #75
Maxstate
I forgot.... what?
 
Maxstate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: ;o ;p :eek:
Posts: 2,090
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wytchking
I personally don't like the sound of shroud of the darkside. What about something more along the lines of DF2's force throw as used by Darth Vader? It would require you to add more throwable objects to maps (random placing?) but it could work like this:

Level 1: A delay before the object moves
Level 2: No delay
Level 3: Faster object movement/Multiple objects

Perhaps put a red glow around the object so the opponent knows it's coming and make it pushable. If it does hit it could do some damage and knock them into a parry or you could make it so they dodge it.
I suggested this long ago, too much coding/not worth it.

Maxstate is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 11-02-2006, 09:21 PM   #76
razorace
Impressive, Terran!
 
razorace's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 9,172
Unfortunately, most maps don't have enough throwable objects to make it worth while.


---Jedi Guardian of the Newbie Questions
---Masters of the Force Team Leader / Creator
---Open Jedi Project Lead Moderator / Co-Founder
razorace is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 11-02-2006, 09:41 PM   #77
Doctor Shaft
 
Doctor Shaft's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: huh?
Posts: 193
Two cents to add on the subject as well.

Jedi Knight had the Force Throw ability in game. I've found that no matter what, Force Throw has always been a wonky power at best.

The objects thing was always an obstacle. The other problem was how to counter it. In JK, you couldn't counter it, so in certain maps, Force Throw was king. Just constantly spam it, and people died because there were so many objects being tossed around.

JA could conceivably have a counter, but I could just picture people either always using Throw because of how useful it might be, or never using it because restrictions make it too clunky to be worthwhile.

A cool concept, but in practice it would always be a burden.


Watch this we will, or lay down I shall.... DIBS I have!
Doctor Shaft is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 11-03-2006, 04:20 AM   #78
UDM
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 922
I really like the idea, but JKA has crap ragdoll physics, and on top of that, it isn't optimized to have objects movable in real time (I think)

Too bad JKA wasn't built on the Doom 3 engine
UDM is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 11-03-2006, 03:00 PM   #79
ensiform
The Stig
 
ensiform's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Sawtooth Cauldron
Posts: 1,241
Current Game: Borderlands 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by UDM
I really like the idea, but JKA has crap ragdoll physics, and on top of that, it isn't optimized to have objects movable in real time (I think)

Too bad JKA wasn't built on the Doom 3 engine
Too bad D3: Jedi / Q4: Jedi didn't get off too far other than a couple of concepts :/


iojamp project lead / coder
ensiform is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Old 11-03-2006, 06:23 PM   #80
razorace
Impressive, Terran!
 
razorace's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 9,172
It's not a big deal. You don't need ragdoll to make throwable objects/items work.


---Jedi Guardian of the Newbie Questions
---Masters of the Force Team Leader / Creator
---Open Jedi Project Lead Moderator / Co-Founder
razorace is offline   you may: quote & reply,
Post a new thread. Add a reply to this thread. Indicate all threads in this forum as read. Subscribe to this forum. RSS feed: this forum RSS feed: all forums
Go Back   LucasForums > Network > JediKnight Series > Community > Hosted Forums > Open Jedi Project (OJP) > The experience system & skills and abilities thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:46 AM.

LFNetwork, LLC ©2002-2011 - All rights reserved.
Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.