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Old 11-03-2006, 07:43 PM   #81
ensiform
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Yeah but, if they are part of the worldspawn they will never move.


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Old 11-03-2006, 07:56 PM   #82
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Right, but objects aren't a part of the worldspawn unless they were just designed as part of the map geometry.

This means we're not really going to be able to have parts of the wall pull off and fly at people, but I'm guessing that would be the case in the Doom 3 engine as well.

Of course we could always just make new maps with the needed parts.


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Old 11-04-2006, 12:34 AM   #83
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Srsly, I've been running around in CoOp a lot lately in Enhanced and the freaking Skill system is pissing me off when it suddenly loses skill and eventually goes negative, u rly need to fix dat.


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Old 11-04-2006, 03:57 AM   #84
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In Doom 3, if you spawned an object with mass eg. boxes, that's the way they'd react. The gravity gun makes a huge difference to interactivity with the environment in Resurrection of Evil

Which is why I think it's a bad idea to have this in JKA. It'll be like having very static meshes flying about the map, and will look fugly. At least without ragdoll code
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Old 11-04-2006, 11:17 AM   #85
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Well this has already been done in a map called "fearis" but that's just parts of the map flying in a scripted path.

I'd rather see NPC's be able to collide with each other and depending on hit speed, knock each other over.

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Old 11-04-2006, 11:40 AM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UDM
In Doom 3, if you spawned an object with mass eg. boxes, that's the way they'd react. The gravity gun makes a huge difference to interactivity with the environment in Resurrection of Evil

Which is why I think it's a bad idea to have this in JKA. It'll be like having very static meshes flying about the map, and will look fugly. At least without ragdoll code
ragdoll is not what causes those effects, its JKA's extra physics system that already supports stuff like that *if* they are real entities, DOOM 3 can't just do that to the world either.


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Old 11-04-2006, 11:52 PM   #87
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One thing that I would still like to see in this point system is buyable soldier NPCs kind of like FM3 has except they would better done and maybe follow basic orders. I'm not sure if we have time before the next build to make them, but unfortunately, Razor's probably the only one who can successfully code them (aside from maybe Ensiform) and he said this may be his last build

If we were to make them, they should probably be buyable for 50 points each so players have to earn them and have no more than maybe 4 max (unless you think we can handle more without lag or whatever).

Also, can somebody who has 0.0.9p post a link to it? I dont see any link on this forum and I still can't get my code to compile.


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Old 11-05-2006, 05:08 AM   #88
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Unfortunately, I don't think the NPC code is up to the task of doing something like that. NPCs simply can't follow the player as well as a TABBot could. Maybe if we had the time to overhaul the NPC navigation code but I don't see it happening in the amount of time I have left.

As for new version, I updated the link in the 'enhanced 0.1.0 is close' thread.


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Old 11-05-2006, 12:10 PM   #89
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I'm fine with a tabbot following the player around too, but it would be better if those tabbots dont take up a player slot because it could take up server space really fast. They probably could follow orders better though.


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Old 11-05-2006, 01:41 PM   #90
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That sounds like a really dull feature to me, sorry.
Plus, if I wanted to play Forcemod, I wouldn't be here right now ;D.

Lets get some gadgets and weapon upgrade skills, or some lightsaber perks buyable from the profile screen. It's all about the vision of selection, we need more things to attract people by letting them have choices so they can't pick everything they want and use it in one go.

The flamethrower is a good example of such a thing, as is Razor's choice to make everything buyable from Profile. But how about instead of buying extra ammo, one can buy upgrades for his weaponry that have to do with damage, rate of fire, scopes, appendages/secondary fire etc. etc. I don't see it being THAT hard.

I've come to realise that I can live without saber perks and such, they aren't what OJP really needs right now even if they would be a really nice addition.
I'd rather see gun upgrades, more gadgets that use existing effects and Force powers getting different effects. Or just more Force powers like the amount Mysteries of the Sith had?

Well at the end of the day it's all about choice, if we can fill up the profile menu with bubbles that are worth buying, things that will differentiate MY character from yours, I think we would have lots more to show for. (don't get me wrong, we already have loads. The RPG mainframe is very excited about 0.1.0 for one)

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Old 11-05-2006, 03:34 PM   #91
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Quote:
That sounds like a really dull feature to me, sorry.
Plus, if I wanted to play Forcemod, I wouldn't be here right now ;D.
Dull feature?! This is one of the cooler parts of FM3, plus our bots are a heck of alot smarter than FM3 bots. You also can't really order around FM3 bots very well and I'm sure we could make our bots do that.

I also think that MB2 sabers should be an option as well that is selectable. I really think they make fights look better and alot of people really like them. Of course we might have to modify them so they have slightly longer trials for attackfakes/power feints (or whatever we're calling them now). At the very least, somebody who actually knows what their doing should make a MB2 saber patch for 0.1.0. I tried to add in the code originally and it didn't go so well


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Old 11-05-2006, 04:41 PM   #92
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Its seems like someone was working on that saber rendering system a while ago but they disappeared.


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Old 11-05-2006, 06:05 PM   #93
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Yeah okay whatever, you'll get last say in this anyway, I'm sure

...need more buyable skills....must...have..more....bubbles..to...click on!

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Old 11-05-2006, 11:03 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxstate
Well at the end of the day it's all about choice, if we can fill up the profile menu with bubbles that are worth buying, things that will differentiate MY character from yours, I think we would have lots more to show for. (don't get me wrong, we already have loads. The RPG mainframe is very excited about 0.1.0 for one)
QFT!!!!!!!!!!!!

I want to be able to greatly differentiate my character. The problem with JKA base is that...there's just no differentiation. Most Dark characters will choose Grip n Lightning. Most Light characters (if there are any, to begin with) will choose Heal and...um ok I think that's about it...Persuade too maybe. It's so standardised, you'd expect to see that most of the time in a full force server. It'd be so cool if everytime you enter the game, your gameplay experience is different because of your character customisation
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Old 11-06-2006, 01:59 AM   #95
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Since alot of players want more bubbles to click on, we should also probably bring back another light side force power as well. Probably mindtrick would be the best one to bring back since it was still a fairly functional force power. I was uncomfortable with getting rid of so many to begin with since new players might think we're cutting them short. We should be thinking of some other options as well having to do with force powers.

Rage could prbably be brought back as well with some differences. It would make you move fast again and maybe do 1.25 times more damage. As a trade off, your parries would only reduce damage by 1/2 and your mishap meter would go up faster for getting parried. The levels would be based around how fast it drains.

I also had an idea for protection. Maybe make it do that auto push for rockets and granades since not everyone likes that feature *coughs*Lathain*coughs* The levels could be based on how much it costs to auto push those or maybe what it can push. Maybe at level 3, you can block blaster bolts in melee for a huge cost like vader did in episode 5.

I still like that tabbot or NPC idea above too btw.


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Old 11-06-2006, 03:19 AM   #96
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@UDM : Ya.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRHockney*
Since alot of players want more bubbles to click on, we should also probably bring back another light side force power as well. Probably mindtrick would be the best one to bring back since it was still a fairly functional force power. I was uncomfortable with getting rid of so many to begin with since new players might think we're cutting them short. We should be thinking of some other options as well having to do with force powers.

Rage could prbably be brought back as well with some differences. It would make you move fast again and maybe do 1.25 times more damage. As a trade off, your parries would only reduce damage by 1/2 and your mishap meter would go up faster for getting parried. The levels would be based around how fast it drains.

I also had an idea for protection. Maybe make it do that auto push for rockets and granades since not everyone likes that feature *coughs*Lathain*coughs* The levels could be based on how much it costs to auto push those or maybe what it can push. Maybe at level 3, you can block blaster bolts in melee for a huge cost like vader did in episode 5.

I still like that tabbot or NPC idea above too btw.
Yes!

I really like the idea of autopush only working with protect like this:

-Level 1 - 8 points - Perequisite level 1 sense : 1 Autopush every 5 seconds.
Drains regular sized Dp chunk and heightens mishap for 1/4.
Must be standing still to use.
(Passive power)

-Level 2 - 5 points - Autopushing can be done as soon as the first one is done. Drains only DP chunks.
Must walk or stand still to use.
(Passive)

Level 3 - 5 points -- Autopushing happens as soon as it can.
Drains half the DP it's supposed too.
You can now run and still use autopush, though if you jump it won't work.
(Passive)

Mindtrick (I'm gonna leave the clone idea for what it is right now because Vruki was the only one that supported me in it, and Vruki is having internets troubles)

Mindtrick 1 - 10 points -- Perequisite Level 2 Sense
You can mindtrick one opponent that:
-Has his back turned to you
or
-Is at critical DP

Mindtrick 2 - 8 points
You can mindtrick 1 opponent if he:
-Has no defenses whatsoever, defenses being
-Absorb level 2
-Push and Pull level 2 (Yes, two powers means that you're proficient at the force and not easily tricked by it)

Mindtrick 3 - 10 points -- Perequisite Sense 3
You can mindtrick anyone within a number of distance from you in a 360 degree angle if:
-They don't have at least Absorb 2
and
-Don't at least have Force Sense 2


I had the idea of changing Force Rage to Dark Sense or something like that.
I think if you want to buy Dark Side powers you should first learn Dark Sense just like you would sense to access the regular powers.

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Old 11-06-2006, 04:35 AM   #97
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We can always get inspiration from KOTOR

http://db.gamefaqs.com/console/xbox/...rce_powers.txt

Check out this guide

And for our Jedi saber skills, instead of the usual Saber Attack, Saber Defence and Saber Throw skills, I've come up with a list of ideas. Also, I suggest having more than 3 bubbles for some skills. I think 5 is good

Saber Attack - affects the amount of mishap (not DP) you cause on others
Saber Defence - affects the amount of mishap (not DP) you lose per hit
Saber Throw - affects how far you can throw your saber, as well as DP damage the saber causes
Yellow form - lets you learn Yellow. I suggest 3 skill bubbles here. Every increase in skill level will decrease the proportion of mishap that you suffer from for whatever reason. At level 1, your mishap goes up quickly. I think it's good to have this because it makes players more "attached" to their forms. In other words, it discourages the "jack of all trades and master of none" and "rock paper scissors" phenomenon
Blue form - same with Yellow
Teal form - same with Yellow
Red form - same with Yellow
Purple form - same with Yellow
Critical strike - increases the DP damage caused by saber locks
Parry - every level of this increases the mishap damage you do when you parry their attacks
Flurry - a skill that is activated once and lasts for a certain period of time. It lets you recover from bounce very quickly, at the cost of FP. Each level of Flurry determines how much time you have before it ends
Power attack - It allows you to increase the amount of damage caused by attack fakes. Like Flurry, it eats FP everytime its activated, and every increase in Power Attack level will allow the skill to last longer
Toughness - determines how fast you recover due to falling down from a mishap. This skill should have a cheap cost
Quick Dodge - increases your DP by 10 per skill level
Focus - you gain less mishap when your attacks are parried
Armor class - increases your armor by 25 per skill level. At 0 skill level, you start with 25 armor
Force channel - Force Jump and wall climb use up less force points
Reflex - Lose less DP when shot (doesnt include saber attacks)

I'm making an assumption here btw: every player will start off with 100dp, which can only be increased with the Quick Dodge skill. The reason why I think Saber Attack and Saber Def should focus on mishap and not DP is because if it did focus on DP, then everyone would stuff points into it. Essentially, that means there's no point in having the skill. I mean why should I spend the same amount of points on other skills, when there are 2 skills that, if I don't add points into, I'll lose the match for sure? Instead, mishap is emphasised as is, because if I drop my saber, I can always retrieve it back!

Last edited by UDM; 11-06-2006 at 04:59 AM.
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Old 11-06-2006, 04:59 AM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UDM
We can always get inspiration from KOTOR

http://db.gamefaqs.com/console/xbox/...rce_powers.txt

Check out this guide

And for our Jedi saber skills, instead of the usual Saber Attack, Saber Defence and Saber Throw skills, I've come up with a list of ideas. Also, I suggest having more than 3 bubbles for some skills. I think 5 is good

Saber Attack - affects the amount of mishap (not DP) you cause on others
Saber Defence - affects the amount of mishap (not DP) you lose per hit
Saber Throw - affects how far you can throw your saber, as well as DP damage the saber causes
Yellow form - lets you learn Yellow. I suggest 3 skill bubbles here. Every increase in skill level will decrease the proportion of mishap that you suffer from for whatever reason. At level 1, your mishap goes up quickly. I think it's good to have this because it makes players more "attached" to their forms. In other words, it discourages the "jack of all trades and master of none" and "rock paper scissors" phenomenon
Blue form - same with Yellow
Teal form - same with Yellow
Red form - same with Yellow
Purple form - same with Yellow
Critical strike - increases the DP damage caused by saber locks
Parry - affects the mishap damage caused by parrying
Flurry - a skill that is activated once and lasts for a certain period of time. It lets you recover from bounce very quickly, at the cost of FP. Each level of Flurry determines how much time you have before it ends
Power attack - a skill that lasts for a certain period of time. It allows you to increase the amount of damage caused by attack fakes
Toughness - determines how fast you recover due to falling down from a mishap. This skill should have a cheap cost
Quick Dodge - increases your DP by 10 per skill level
Focus - you gain less mishap when your attacks are parried
Armor class - increases your armor by 25 per skill level. At 0 skill level, you start with 25 armor
Force channel - Force Jump and wall climb use up less force points
Reflex - Lose less DP when shot (doesnt include saber attacks)

I'm making an assumption here btw: every player will start off with 100dp, which can only be increased with the Quick Dodge skill. The reason why I think Saber Attack and Saber Def should focus on mishap and not DP is because if it did focus on DP, then everyone would stuff points into it. Essentially, that means there's no point in having the skill. I mean why should I spend the same amount of points on other skills, when there are 2 skills that, if I don't add points into, I'll lose the match for sure? Instead, mishap is emphasised as is, because if I drop my saber, I can always retrieve it back!
I already suggested something like this, but simpler. I think that something like this sounds pretty good but it wouldn't exactly work with the noob-friendliness we're trying to achieve with ojp.

I agree on powers like "Reflex" and "toughness", and I think they should give someone a permanent bonus instead of a timed effect. The saber Attack and Defense stuff is good as it is, though I would like to see buyable styles.
Up to 3 buyable styles with their own perks.
Or 3 buyable styles and seperate buyable perks that count for all styles?

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Old 11-06-2006, 05:05 AM   #99
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Hmmm it may not hurt noob friendliness too much. The whole idea is to make players more fond of a certain style, so that they can call it their own. If I'm a n00b, I'd like to experiment with the choices that I'm given, instead of being forced. CS works in a similar fashion. It offers a variety of weapons, from pistols to snipers to machine guns. Yet, it remains n00b friendly, because it's fun to try out new things

Besides, who doesnt allocate all their points to Saber Attack and Defence in base JKA or even OJP? The problem with the system is that Attack and Defense are too important to not allocate points. I'd like to see an equal opportunity for all the skills ie. versatile, varied consumer choices, instead of fixed decision everytime one starts a game. Maybe I could try a defensive role today by having more points in saber defense and parrying, and less in offense. Then tomorrow, I'd try having a more offensive role by putting points in saber forms and saber attack. Whatever it is, there will not be a "jack of all trades" phenomenon because choices are too varied and numerous

I used to suggest perks a lot, but I think my mind has sort of changed recently. The main reason is that its impossible to achieve balance if there are many perks of varying degrees of usefulness. At least, that's the case for Jedi. Look at the gunner skills right now. It's very hard to achieve balance with the rocket launcher and blaster guns. The blaster is useful because its got a lot of ammo, and has fast killing potential. The pistol is just a waste of skillpoints. The rocket launcher is overpowered, and reducing ammo for it is not the solution because then it'd make the rocket launcher overpowered and all of a sudden, when you're out of ammo, you're cannon fodder
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Old 11-06-2006, 05:26 AM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UDM
Hmmm it may not hurt noob friendliness too much. The whole idea is to make players more fond of a certain style, so that they can call it their own. If I'm a n00b, I'd like to experiment with the choices that I'm given, instead of being forced. CS works in a similar fashion. It offers a variety of weapons, from pistols to snipers to machine guns. Yet, it remains n00b friendly, because it's fun to try out new things.
Yes because shooting guns is pointing and clicking, our saber play is far far different and much more complex than shooting a gun in CS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by UDM
Besides, who doesnt allocate all their points to Saber Attack and Defence in base JKA or even OJP? The problem with the system is that Attack and Defense are too important to not allocate points. I'd like to see an equal opportunity for all the skills ie. versatile, varied consumer choices, instead of fixed decision everytime one starts a game. Maybe I could try a defensive role today by having more points in saber defense and parrying, and less in offense. Then tomorrow, I'd try having a more offensive role by putting points in saber forms and saber attack. Whatever it is, there will not be a "jack of all trades" phenomenon because choices are too varied and numerous
That's why we need the saber perks to be buyable.
Currently SabAttack only defines how much styles you have, Saber Defense defines only what percentage blaster bolts are deflected/reflected.

I'll admit that I would like a more deepgoing system too, but I forsee that people will have a lot more "WHAT THE ****KKKKKKKK IM OUT OF HERE BACK 2 FMoD3" if they don't understand why they're getting killed so often even though they have their regular build.

Quote:
Originally Posted by UDM
I used to suggest perks a lot, but I think my mind has sort of changed recently. The main reason is that its impossible to achieve balance if there are many perks of varying degrees of usefulness. At least, that's the case for Jedi. Look at the gunner skills right now. It's very hard to achieve balance with the rocket launcher and blaster guns. The blaster is useful because its got a lot of ammo, and has fast killing potential. The pistol is just a waste of skillpoints. The rocket launcher is overpowered, and reducing ammo for it is not the solution because then it'd make the rocket launcher overpowered and all of a sudden, when you're out of ammo, you're cannon fodder
[/quote]
We need saber perks that don't directly affect the result of a saber duel, unless the user knows how to use them correctly. Like the perk to buy extra Makashi Defense so you don't get any extra damage from back whacks.
It seems useless against one opponent, but if you're being charged by two people you can still have a nice chance to survive.

Guns are currently overpowered and boring to use because there is no recharge function. Hell, even Forcemod has a recharge function, you shoot your full ammo clip out and then recharge ammo for your gun and shoot again.

If you give rockets a cooldown and a reloading anim (like MB uses the holstering one and freezes it in place) it would make the rocket launcher much more strategic and less the FFA monsterkill weapon it is now.

The e-11 is the best allround weapon, I love it, I just don't like the fact that you can shoot 300 rounds out of it without the damn thing overheating or running out of ammo. Even clones in the war asked for ammo, and they didn't have sidearms just for the kick of it ffs!

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Old 11-06-2006, 05:44 AM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxstate
Yes because shooting guns is pointing and clicking, our saber play is far far different and much more complex than shooting a gun in CS.
Yes yes I know I know. But right now, my dear, we're talking about the skills that you can buy OJP, compared to the guns you can buy in CS

Quote:
I'll admit that I would like a more deepgoing system too, but I forsee that people will have a lot more "WHAT THE ****KKKKKKKK IM OUT OF HERE BACK 2 FMoD3" if they don't understand why they're getting killed so often even though they have their regular build.
That only applies if we complicate the saber system. As it is, I think this has nothing to do with what I suggested above, which is adapted to an individual's personal preferences, not to change the way the game is played. What's complicated is if we start having all sorts of new additions to the saber system eg. being able to kick while saber locked, having to hold crouch and jump and strafe at the same time to prevent being kicked down etc. Think of my ideas as...a walking crutch for an old man. Sure the old man can walk, but with a walking crutch (my ideas), he can walk better. If he's short, then a shorter walking crutch is better. If he's hunch backed, then he will fare better with a crutch that has bigger shoulder support

Quote:
We need saber perks that don't directly affect the result of a saber duel, unless the user knows how to use them correctly. Like the perk to buy extra Makashi Defense so you don't get any extra damage from back whacks.
It seems useless against one opponent, but if you're being charged by two people you can still have a nice chance to survive.
That's the problem. That sort of skill is very situational. It only applies to FFA and powerduel, where it is very useful. In a 1 on 1 duel, it becomes useless. Again, I'm emphasizing that every skill should be given an equal opportunity to be integrated into the gameplay experience. Skills shouldn't be used because they work best in that situation ie. constantly spamming Heal and running away, but instead should be used because that is your personal preference

I agree with the part about the guns
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Old 11-06-2006, 06:32 AM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UDM
Yes yes I know I know. But right now, my dear, we're talking about the skills that you can buy OJP, compared to the guns you can buy in CS
I quote: "It offers a variety of weapons, from pistols to snipers to machine guns. Yet, it remains n00b friendly, because it's fun to try out new things."

Guns are not force powers or skills. Guns only require you to shoot, you don't need to know anything about guns to be able to shoot them.

Force powers and skills as you suggested them have different effects you need to take account of and think about before you use them.
Which does indeed make them noob unfriendly, because noone wants to read anything before they start playing. I got 4 new players to read Hocks' quickstart guide and that's it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by UDM
That only applies if we complicate the saber system. As it is, I think this has nothing to do with what I suggested above, which is adapted to an individual's personal preferences, not to change the way the game is played. What's complicated is if we start having all sorts of new additions to the saber system eg. being able to kick while saber locked, having to hold crouch and jump and strafe at the same time to prevent being kicked down etc. Think of my ideas as...a walking crutch for an old man. Sure the old man can walk, but with a walking crutch (my ideas), he can walk better. If he's short, then a shorter walking crutch is better. If he's hunch backed, then he will fare better with a crutch that has bigger shoulder support
Your ideas complicate the saber system because these force powers and skills WILL BE USED in a duel! This makes people need to think about what they're doing, this will make people go "WTF" because they don't know that Power's effect and what it's good for.

Also it is personal preference, but how do you think people will use Force Powers they know nothing about? THat they don't know what the effects are of?

Quote:
Originally Posted by UDM
That's the problem. That sort of skill is very situational. It only applies to FFA and powerduel, where it is very useful. In a 1 on 1 duel, it becomes useless. Again, I'm emphasizing that every skill should be given an equal opportunity to be integrated into the gameplay experience. Skills shouldn't be used because they work best in that situation ie. constantly spamming Heal and running away, but instead should be used because that is your personal preference

I agree with the part about the guns

I WANT them to be only useful in different situations!
Noone concentrates on a single opponent when they are surrounded by them, noone uses jabs and simple one handed parries when they're facing a saber-wielding ogre.

Everything should be situational because that gives you more choices in specific situations on how to react.

As if your skills aren't situational? I quote: "Reflex - Lose less DP when shot (doesnt include saber attacks)" So it only works if you get shot, which is a non-recurring situation because we don't have that many gunners. You could use that power maybe once every few hours. Smells like hypocritzzzz!

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Old 11-06-2006, 11:44 AM   #103
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After playing with some of the guys over at the RPG mainframe (they're very mature, fun to play with and aren't anything like the ones chosen described)
I think we had a good match. We showed them the basics and I think they enjoyed it, though the saber system was still a big pill to swallow for them.

And exactly as I predicted, here are the cons and pros they wrote down:

Quote:
Originally Posted by RPG MAinframe
Pros:
1: we can put levels on guns making those classes more customizable.
2: Coop mode can help us with some npc jobs (in the version i played there was a skill bug but their working on it)
3: damages and stuff are not all effed up like in fm3 (a couple swings of a lightsaber and a few shots with a blaster will kill you but its counteracted by dodge)
4: saberthrow is straight line and much harder to aim so its not overpowered.
5: Gun's to saber transition very very smooth (I can go from E11 to Sword with out having to switch classes which me likey)
6: Much more balanced/fair 2 v 1 fights
7: not everyone will have the basic 3 styles

Observations:
1: Saber system is complex and requires a certain finesse to use it
2: Still has some bugs but they are ironing them out
3: You can't block blasters forever anymore
4: New Stances/moves however the saberstyles are not all that different (but that could just be me) in that the damages are all the same and the basic moves are more or less the same (how ever some styles eat dp faster and/or easier to parry with)
5: duels can take forever depending on the players aggressiveness/skill
6: the Force Prestige classes would be obselete (unless they add alot more force powers) cuz they only have 1 light the nuetral and 2 dark


Cons:
1: the skill/exp system it has built in is cool but is not useful for us since they reset back to the min on new maps making it so people who just get on have a big dissadvantage (however i heard you can adjust the min and maximum so we can set them the same)
2: no ammo reclaimation cry.gif
3: Very few force powers/guns (but i've heard they're trying to fix that)
4: The entire mod seems to center around lightsabers
5: Explosive (OMG they take away all of you dodge points knock you down but are auto pushed if you have it)
Notice that they complained about the lack of ammo recharge (ZING!) and the lack of buyable skills (DOUBLE ZING!).

If you're like me you'll want to gear OJP towards the people but still keep a fraction of it intact the way you like it. If I listen to the side of me that likes dueling, IT's downright perfect. But my overall judgement side still thinks that there is an overall lack of skills, and the gunning system is far too illogical.

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Old 11-06-2006, 03:09 PM   #104
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I like the idea of making Protect a purely passive power. I wouldn't mind if saber defense only did the defensive stuff that can be done with a saber: basically, deflecting bolts. Here's my humble suggestion (although I like the previous one too):

Saber defense: Ability to deflect saber bolts, higher levels mean less cost to do so. Maybe we could also have saber defense affect the DP costs for blocking saber attacks.

Level 1 Protect: Gain simple dodge ability (sabers, blaster fire)
Level 2 Protect: Gain advanced dodge (the dodge from rockets/thermals)
Level 3 Protect: Gain autopush.

This would also make it so that you don't have to have your saber out to push away a rocket, which makes more sense. Also, dodge would be a purchasable power.
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Old 11-06-2006, 03:39 PM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sushi_CW
I like the idea of making Protect a purely passive power. I wouldn't mind if saber defense only did the defensive stuff that can be done with a saber: basically, deflecting bolts. Here's my humble suggestion (although I like the previous one too):

Saber defense: Ability to deflect saber bolts, higher levels mean less cost to do so. Maybe we could also have saber defense affect the DP costs for blocking saber attacks.

Level 1 Protect: Gain simple dodge ability (sabers, blaster fire)
Level 2 Protect: Gain advanced dodge (the dodge from rockets/thermals)
Level 3 Protect: Gain autopush.

This would also make it so that you don't have to have your saber out to push away a rocket, which makes more sense. Also, dodge would be a purchasable power.
Sounds okay to me, but it wouldn't exactly be adding new skills...
Meh.

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Old 11-06-2006, 06:00 PM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sushi_CW
I like the idea of making Protect a purely passive power. I wouldn't mind if saber defense only did the defensive stuff that can be done with a saber: basically, deflecting bolts. Here's my humble suggestion (although I like the previous one too):

Saber defense: Ability to deflect saber bolts, higher levels mean less cost to do so. Maybe we could also have saber defense affect the DP costs for blocking saber attacks.

Level 1 Protect: Gain simple dodge ability (sabers, blaster fire)
Level 2 Protect: Gain advanced dodge (the dodge from rockets/thermals)
Level 3 Protect: Gain autopush.

This would also make it so that you don't have to have your saber out to push away a rocket, which makes more sense. Also, dodge would be a purchasable power.

This isnt a bad idea either, although I'm not sure how were going to "dodge" a thermal. It would definitely allow a player to take what they like of the normal game features and not what they doesnt since alot lot people dont like dodge period.


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Old 11-06-2006, 06:18 PM   #107
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By dodging thermals, I mean the dodge that happens when it explodes... you automatically jump/roll out of the way and take less damage. As far as I can tell, this is what currently happens if you have DP but are pointed the wrong way to autopush the rocket or thermal.
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Old 11-06-2006, 10:36 PM   #108
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Me thinks what would happen if you're standing near a ledge...
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Old 11-06-2006, 11:08 PM   #109
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So, is the general consensius that people want the body dodges to be a buyable skill? That will make most players die in one shot in most cases.


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Old 11-07-2006, 01:37 AM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by razorace
So, is the general consensius that people want the body dodges to be a buyable skill? That will make most players die in one shot in most cases.
Well I guess that depends on how we do it. The actual dodge could just be taken out without the DP gone and blaster would just lower DP like it usually does against a saber. In melee or with guns, it would just be based on whatever that weapon does to your HP if you dont have it.

Quote:
Me thinks what would happen if you're standing near a ledge...
Mmm, probably the same thing that happens if you dodge a saber near a ledge. Sure its annoying and we should probably create of kind of ledge fall prevention, but I think its a fair trade off. Its only temporary until you get level 3 protection anyways in this case.

On another note, we might want to start changing the names of some of these newer effect force powers so that new people get a clue that they are different. For example, Defense is actually Blaster reflecting defense and not everyone might catch on to that since its different in other games (well, mainly MB2).


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Old 11-07-2006, 03:08 AM   #111
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Can we plox at least give the skills a bit more exciting names?

Blaster = E-11
Pistol = DL-44
Buyable Dodge = Jedi Defense > ADvanced Jedi DEfense > Mastaaaaa Jedi Defense.

Also:
-scopes
-upgrades for blasters
-More skills

As I said, I can forget about saber perks and stuff if we just change the way the styles work with damage and mishap rates. But before you go I'd really like to see some mo' skills.

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Old 11-07-2006, 05:11 AM   #112
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I'm not really for buying the skill itself, but I am for upgrading it

That said, I'd prefer to see everyone start off equipped with enough attributes to be able to fight fair, so that even a player with 1337 saber fighting skills who (as in skilful player, not dumping lots of points into in-game skills) who doesn't use any of his skillpoints (SP) at all can triumph one who dumps all his SP into different in-game skills
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Old 11-07-2006, 05:41 AM   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxstate
Can we plox at least give the skills a bit more exciting names?
Do people really want the technical names for the weapons instead of their generic names? It really doesn't matter to me but I figured that the generic terms are simplier for people to understand.


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Old 11-07-2006, 03:47 PM   #114
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Quote:
Do people really want the technical names for the weapons instead of their generic names? It really doesn't matter to me but I figured that the generic terms are simplier for people to understand.
I personally think we should keep it generic for things like weapon mods.


As for skills etc. what about having two seperate skill trees. One would be general skills, say offense, and stats eg. strength. This would gain extra points by killing and capturing flags. In this section would be:

Saber Offense

Saber Defense

Strength (Adds extra DP damage for lightsabers, allows access to all grapples in melee, adds extra melee damage, makes you have a chance to win saber locks when initiated by opponent opposed to the opponent always winning saber locks if he has initiated it as Razorace suggested)

Acrobatics (Allows you to roll, allows all acrobatic jedi moves, allows ledge grab)

Reflexes (Increases chance of deflecting bolts, reduces cost of dodging)

Sight (Increases accuracy, reduces chance of mind trick successes (mainly useful for plain gunners))

Then we would have weapon and precise skills with points given for use of the weapon/gadget. Iíve not included skills which involve reloading or cool downs apart from in the rockets and special shots though Iím in favor of reloading for all weapons. Skills would include:

Pistol skills except dual pistol wielding should not cost much to make the pistol more useful

Dual Pistol Wielding: No explanation needed. Gives you dual pistols and with each level increases accuracy till it is better than the original

Increased Damage: Makes it harder to block and causes more damage when hits.

Increased Accuracy: Makes shots more accurate (accuracy should be slightly reduced for newer pistol wielders from base)

Increased Speed: Increases speed of pistol shots and to draw weapon.

Rifle

Increased Damage: Makes it harder to block and causes more damage when hits.

Increased Accuracy: Makes shots more accurate (accuracy should be slightly reduced for newer wielders from base)

Increased Speed: Increases speed of shots and to draw weapon

Burst: Allows access to secondary burst fire, same as default except only limited shots. Increased accuracy with burst every level

Stun: (Could make it so you only choose burst or stun or to add a tertiary fire) Causes knockdowns on characters who are running facing the opposite direction from the wielder and slow bounces on saber wielders. If you are facing the shooter then itís dodge able but it causes hurt animation if not running. Uses lots of ammo. Short delay before use which is decreased by levels and range of the shot is increased.

Disruptor

Scope: Adds the secondary sniper fire

Charge: Allows shots to be charged in or out of scope mode with longer and faster charges per level

Snipers eye: Automatically aims at nearest target to crosshair when entering scope mode with the nearness to the character increasing per level

Increased Damage: Makes it harder to block and causes more damage when hits.

Increased Speed: Increases speed of shots and to draw weapon.

Wookie Bowcaster

Scope: Adds a secondary sniper fire

Increased Damage: Makes it harder to block and causes more damage when hits.

Increased Speed: Increases speed of shots and to draw weapon.

Knockback: Knocks a person backwards who is hit by shot. If the person is running towards or away from you they are knocked down if not they go into pain/slowbounce animations

Multi Shot: Adds extra shots to each attack but decrease the accuracy sacrificing accuracy for force. The shots are in close formation. Each level adds an extra shot

Repeater

Increased Damage: Makes it harder to block and causes more damage when hits.

Increased Speed: Increases speed of shots and to draw weapon.

Increased Damage: Makes it harder to block and causes more damage when hits.

Concussion shot: Adds the concussion shot which acts like OJPís current one except with a cool down before being able to use it again. Separate ammo of 3-5 (If possible). Reduces cool down time for each level.

Demp

Increased Damage: Makes it harder to block and causes more damage when hits.

Increased Speed: Increases speed of shots and to draw weapon.

Shocker: Secondary close range shot, Chain lightning between people nearby. Continuous ammo drain. Each level increases range of first fire and chain. (I donít know if this is possible)

Shockwave: Tertiary fire, like usual but with each level increasing wave range

Flechette

Increased Damage: Makes it harder to block and causes more damage when hits.

Increased Speed: Increases speed of shots and to draw weapon.

Increased Damage: Makes it harder to block and causes more damage when hits.

Increased Range: Increases shot range (base range will need to be smaller)

Increased Spread: Increases spread of shots increasing DP damage

Increased Ammo: Increases ammo from low eg. a few rounds

No Secondary Fire as the flechette's Secondary Fire is overpowered in my view (Canít be blocked, dodge causes knockdown)

Missile Launcher

Homing Rockets: Gives homing rockets and increases there speed and lock on time.

Decreased Cool Down: Decreased cool down/reload of rockets

Bigger blast: The effects of the blast are felt further

Increased ammo: Increases ammo from 2-3

Concussion Rifle

Increased Damage: Makes it harder to block and causes more damage when hits.

Increased Speed: Increases speed of shots and to draw weapon

Charge: Allows you to charge up shots to increase blast radius and damage

Overload: Secondary fire, delay then a colossal blast using nearly all of the ammo but causing lots of damage and disintegrating those hit directly. Decreases charge time with levels

Flame Thrower

Increased Range: Increases the range of the Flamethrower

Increased Damage: Increases Flamethrower damage

Fuel Link: Links the fuel for the Jetpack and Flamethrower (If both are bought) increasing the fuel overall for both

Increased Fuel: Increases fuel for longer flaming

Jetpack

Fuel Link: Same as Flamethrower Fuel Link

Increased Height: Increases the height the jetpack can go

Increased Fuel: Increases Jetpack duration

Flight Basics: Allows you first to fly like base rather than jumping then giving you faster turns

Rocket: Gives one rocket on jetpack

Binoculars

Thermal Vision: Allows Merc to see all heat sources with range increasing each level

Anomaly Detection: Focuses in on snipers in view or Jedi using mind trick who are of a lower level

Night Vision: Rids shadows, shows hidden trip wires and counters mind trick of lower or the same level

Increase Zoom: Increases zoom range

Thermal Detonator creates expanding sphere of damage like Movie battles

Increased Blast Radius: Increases blast radius (DuhÖ)

Impact Grenade: Secondary fire which explodes on impact

Increased Damage: Increases damage dealt

Trip Mines

Mine Link: Tertiary fire which links mines or detpacks together so they explode at the same time

Invisible Trips: Trip wires are invisible to anyone not on your team

Increased Damage: Increases the damage

Detpack

Mine Link: Same as Trip Mines

Decreased Reaction Time: Decreases the delay before the explosion

Increased Damage: Increases the damage

Cloaking like the saboteurs

Increased Level: Increases the level of the shader to make you harder to see

Increased Length: Increases the length of time that it works

E-Web

Decreased Set Up Time: Decreases the time to set up

Portable Shield creates shield for crouching behind (not very big)

Increased Shield Health: Increases the health before the shield collapses

Increased Duration: Increases the length of time the shield stays up

Now an iffy or impossible gadget

Grapple hooks onto enemies and brings them down if they move. May be reeled in or out. Can be shot or cut. Not meant for climbing or for swinging.

Increased Range: Increases the range of the hook

Increased Speed: Increases the speed of the hook

Increased Health: Makes the grapple take more shots to detach

Any other random things others can come up with

This idea should force people to specialize even without knowing it and should provide a lot of customization and balance (I hope).

Iíll leave the force to everyone else as I have no real new ideas how to work it except

Mind Trick
1: Invisible when standing still not in crosshair to those with level 1 sense who are not using it
2: Invisible when standing still to those with level <=2 sense with level 2 not using it
3: Invisible when walking to those with level <=3 sense with level 3 not using it
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Old 11-07-2006, 04:14 PM   #115
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I just tested the mod a few minutes ago, and here are some suggestions.
__________________________________________________ _______________

On Jetpack

I think the jetpack can be improved so that when u jump and hold it down it activates (like FM III). Also I think it would be pretty cool to choose your skins for it (as the regular one just looks butt ugly).

Gunz

Well all the alt fire crap is removed for now on decision for them but anyways I was thinking of "Special" upgrades for guns that alt fire could be used. For example, u can get a special "rapid" fire skill, that idk shoots faster but really fast. Power shot that fires a big ol power shot like the pistol, and then a scope upgrdae.

But not all guns wouldnt have same upgrdaes, for example, repeater wouldnt have a scope, but instead maybe power shot, rapid shot (omg super fast omg!!!), and the bomb attack.

O ya for the scope, I was thinking instead of using alt fire, just make a Scope key instead.

ANd for bowcaster, make it shoot out more bolts when charged! If you played SW BF II, that thing fires hella more bolts and spreads out more.

For shotgun, make basic fire have more shells fire out.

Now grenades, omg!! Remove that alt attack thing it has. Its just spamtacular. Make it have a bigger explosion, and its timed. If you can, make it so you can cook the detnater, instead of it exploding on ground. If not just remove it completely :P

Other gadgets for gun dudes

Well here are some ideas that are pretty basic, but w/e.

CLoak: Basically, it will be a stealth generator that lets ur dude go invisable.

Heat sensors: Turns ur vision to heat vision, and u can see people red, and the rest is all blueish color. (cant see through walls)

Night Vision: Well i just thought it'd be cool for night maps i guess... Not a must have but, w/e :P

Turret: Err the little turret droid

Sentry Droid: Little ball droid that follows u around

Ammo Regen: Either use Force points to regen, or automatically regens. More you levle it, faster regen u get

Shield Regen: Same as above, but regenerates your shield.

HP Boost: More you level this, more health you get

Armor Boost: More you level this, more shield u get.
__________________________________________________ _______________

Thats all for now. Also, id make it so if you want to use forcepowers, some of the skills cant be used (IE certain guns, explosives, jetpack, etc).

Well thats all i got right now ill post later.
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Old 11-07-2006, 04:54 PM   #116
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I think the effect of having weapon customization might not justify the amount of work put into making them work in the game. I mean, Han Solo was supposed to have a fairly modifed pistol and it didn't seem to perform any better than the generic pistols used by the Empire.

Instead, I'd suggest that additional skill levels result in better accuracy with weapons and then add a more realistic accuracy system where running, crouching, etc affects the accuracy of the shots.

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Old 11-07-2006, 05:16 PM   #117
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Final notes; only the most NEEDED of all suggestions.

This is what I've come to after thinking about what I suggested and looking at some of the latest posts:

Blasters
__________________________________________

There should be skills that grant you effects like modification to your weapon would work in Kotor.

For example:

-Improved accuracy - 10 points - E-11, Bowcaster
For blabllabla reason your e-11 and bowcaster aim have improved, they now shoot without spread. (or you could make it leveled , so every bubble you buy makes it even more precise than it was before etc. etc.)

-Modded trigger system - 10 points - e-11, bowcaster, pistol
You modded your trigger system to improve weapon rate of fire.

-Improved Energy Cells - 10 points - E-11, bowcaster, pistol
New weapon energy cells improved their lethality (weapons do more damage).

-Anti-Jedi training - 10 points - E-11, bowcaster,-pistol, repeater
After experiencing Jedi on the field you have learned their deflection strategies through and you are able to outwit them and shoot in such a way that they have difficulty to reflect shots back at you. (taking notes from Jango vs Trebor) This would for example decrease Saber Defense 3 Reflection accuracy from 50% to 20% or lower.

Thermal Detonator 20 points
_________________
Only one should be buyable for 20 points and it should be a weapon of mass destruction. C3pO was very afraid of the thermal Leia had in Jabba's hut and they said it could kill anyone in that room, I think that it should have the same effect in OJP instead of the lousy poof it makes now.


Detpack 20 points
_________________
This should be a deadly weapon that comes in pairs of two, only two can be bought and carried for every life. Detpacks should not kill Jedi, but the blast from them should wipe the Jedi's Dodge points straight off the HUD leaving them open for follow up attacks.
These would work like satchel charges and can only be manually detonated from a distance not greater than xx.

Misc Inventory Items
_______________________
I agree with Fen, the sentry should at least be available in the list of buyable items and should also be limited to one per life/time. The flying saber training thing could be left out, as could the ForceField.

Cloak 10 points
__________________
Would promote stealthy characters, the cloaking should be vastly improved to near invisibility which should cancel itself if a weapon is fired.

Auto Push
__________________
Auto-pushed projectiles should fly in directions other than back at the gunner, they should go towards the jedi's extremes like straight up or diagonally left/right.

Rocket Launcher
__________________
Should have limited ammo and a non-killing but mass damaging quality in battle.


For Saber perks I had an idea long ago and I'll post it here even if I've just talked to Razor about it.

Well to solve our dilemma with having saber perks for individual styles, I think we should add different saber crystals that give us different effects like the gunner blaster skills do. Like in Kotor where you could upgrade your saber with a new crystal it would make it more proficient at defense, deflecting or attacking. It would do more damage or calm the Jedi down.
I think it's a good solution, what do you guys think?

My idea is to have a few different Lightsaber crystals buyable from the screen with different effects straight from the books.

As for Protect I think it should only activate Auto-push, and not Dodge. Dodge is essential in OJP combat and shouldn't rely on anything other than Jedi intuition.

I also would like Mind trick back very much thank you.


That's all.

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Old 11-07-2006, 07:00 PM   #118
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I agree for the most part with your suggestions. Please add task tickets for your ideas about...

Thermal Detonator
Detpack
Sentry Turret
Cloak
Auto Push
Rocket Launcher

And I'll try to get to them when I have time.


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Old 11-07-2006, 07:20 PM   #119
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Quote:
Well to solve our dilemma with having saber perks for individual styles, I think we should add different saber crystals that give us different effects like the gunner blaster skills do. Like in Kotor where you could upgrade your saber with a new crystal it would make it more proficient at defense, deflecting or attacking. It would do more damage or calm the Jedi down.
I think it's a good solution, what do you guys think?
I'm not against individual buyable features like that since I've been hoping we'd do something like that for a long time. But I still think the styles need to have some sort of beginning difference like the DP values we've discussed a thousand time over for the reasons we discussed a thousand times over. Its just not worth the animation splicing to make them perfectly balanced when the solution is simple and logical.

Quote:
Cloak 10 points
__________________
Would promote stealthy characters, the cloaking should be vastly improved to near invisibility which should cancel itself if a weapon is fired.
Maybe cloak should make a character dead silent in their footsteps or saber until they fire or swing and me immune to seeing?

Quote:
As for Protect I think it should only activate Auto-push, and not Dodge. Dodge is essential in OJP combat and shouldn't rely on anything other than Jedi intuition.
I dont know. The system is still fairly playable without dodge and alot of people dont really like it. There are alot of server that just turn it off. I say make it an option but make it fairly cheap so people can easily buy it if they have seeing. We might also want to make seeing a little more expensive as well.


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Old 11-07-2006, 08:14 PM   #120
razorace
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I'm pretty happy with the current DP allocation method. I say we don't mess with it unless there's some serious balancing issue.

As for cloak, I don't think it should mask footstep sounds. It just makes it creaper for the non-cloaked players.


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