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Old 11-07-2006, 08:34 PM   #121
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As for cloak, I don't think it should mask footstep sounds. It just makes it creaper for the non-cloaked players.
Well, that's why it would be a more stealthy alternative to mindtrick and simply vanishing. This way, you could just hid out like a ninja or assasin or something with still having the potential to be seen. There are far too many metal gear/splintercell/ninja fans out there to not take advantage of a more stealthy technique. This would have to work with not being seen by people with seeing to work to its fullest potential though.

Along with this, is there any way to make a player maybe turn black or greatly shaded when they are in dark or a dark shadow? It might be a cool feature on shadowed or dark maps.


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Old 11-07-2006, 09:44 PM   #122
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Going back to the "commanding npcs" idea mentioned before, how about turning the 'seeker' item into a true npc like it was originally intended to be (seeing as ojp has md3 modeled npcs working now). The seeker would last until it is shot down, and you could give it simple commands (follow me, go other there, attack on sight, attack my target). I have made something similar to this before, and am fairly confident I could code this in, if razorace doesn't have time for it.
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Old 11-08-2006, 12:23 AM   #123
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I like this idea. The seeker could be a tool for distraction, but not powerful enough to kill on its own
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Old 11-08-2006, 04:20 AM   #124
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Originally Posted by JRHockney*
Well, that's why it would be a more stealthy alternative to mindtrick and simply vanishing. This way, you could just hid out like a ninja or assasin or something with still having the potential to be seen. There are far too many metal gear/splintercell/ninja fans out there to not take advantage of a more stealthy technique. This would have to work with not being seen by people with seeing to work to its fullest potential though.

Along with this, is there any way to make a player maybe turn black or greatly shaded when they are in dark or a dark shadow? It might be a cool feature on shadowed or dark maps.
I think the players have to have at least some level of non-invisibleness when using cloak/mindtrick. 100% invisible doesn't require any skill to sneak up on anyone.


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Old 11-08-2006, 03:06 PM   #125
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Ace, I'm in the middle of playing 009P with a friend and it turns out that Manual Deflect isn't working. I'm aiming away from him and timing it right with a good ping around 30 but it's not headed his way, I can't see ANY difference in where the shot is going..

It was supposed to go to a random enemy in range, my friend shooting is the only one, isn't it supposed to go at him?

Can you PLEASE fix this?

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Old 11-08-2006, 05:08 PM   #126
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Remember that the swing has to be in the windup or return animations for manual deflections to occur. I don't see any issues with the code so I'm going to need more information before I can act on it.


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Old 11-08-2006, 05:13 PM   #127
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Originally Posted by razorace
Remember that the swing has to be in the windup or return animations for manual deflections to occur. I don't see any issues with the code so I'm going to need more information before I can act on it.
I used fakes to do them and I think we tested it with a couple of hundred shots and none of them went towards the gunner. I was aiming slightly to his left and told him to shoot in a pattern, then I would tap fake just as the shots hit me.

I had saber defense 3 and the shots just flew towards my crosshair with 100% accuracy, nothing else..

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Old 11-08-2006, 05:22 PM   #128
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That's probably an indication that your base saber reflection rate is overriding your manual reflections. The system automatically goes with the highest level of reflection and at 50% of your reflects occuring at level 3, it's probably going to look like the manual reflections rarely happen. It should be more obvious on a lower saber defense level.


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Old 11-08-2006, 06:15 PM   #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by razorace
That's probably an indication that your base saber reflection rate is overriding your manual reflections. The system automatically goes with the highest level of reflection and at 50% of your reflects occuring at level 3, it's probably going to look like the manual reflections rarely happen. It should be more obvious on a lower saber defense level.
But shouldn't it reflect the bolts back at the gunner when manually deflected correctly? Because it didn't do that even once in the few hundred shots we practiced with...


Very frustrating, manual deflection is a feature I'm very fond of and it seems to not be working now.

Or is this the way it's supposed to work? Dude, if it's just gonna reflect towards the crosshair noone will bother with manual deflection. If you set it up like that, please turn it back like it was.
If not, I'll check again tomorrow I guess.

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Old 11-08-2006, 07:31 PM   #130
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What's wrong with the crosshair aimed bolt deflection? I thought that's what you guys wanted in the first place. If that's not the case, we could just make all reflections just hit near by enemy and not worry about it.

Please bear in mind that the time spent time reprogramming things because of vague user feedback is time not spent on other features.


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Old 11-08-2006, 08:04 PM   #131
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For what it's worth, I like the crosshair-aimed bolt deflection.
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Old 11-08-2006, 09:10 PM   #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by razorace
I think the players have to have at least some level of non-invisibleness when using cloak/mindtrick. 100% invisible doesn't require any skill to sneak up on anyone.
Well, thats what I'm talking about. Mindtrick would do the same thing it always does and make the player invisible and audable until he does something. My idea of cloak would be more based on actual stealth were you CAN be seen but cant be heard or detected through seeing. It would make stealth more like actual stealth rather than disappearing. Being invisible is just to easy for players who like to play stealth games. The silent footsteps thing was always fun in the deus ex games. Of course this might also have to be silent for NPC's too. That would really be cool.

So is that shadow blend idea that I mentioned before at all possible?

Quote:
For what it's worth, I like the crosshair-aimed bolt deflection.
I do too, but I havent tried it enough to know whether its too hard to do or not in its present form.


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Old 11-09-2006, 02:11 AM   #133
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So is that shadow blend idea that I mentioned before at all possible?
There aren't shadows to stand in on the maps in the first place.


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Old 11-09-2006, 02:56 AM   #134
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Thumbs down

Quote:
Originally Posted by razorace
What's wrong with the crosshair aimed bolt deflection? I thought that's what you guys wanted in the first place. If that's not the case, we could just make all reflections just hit near by enemy and not worry about it.

Please bear in mind that the time spent time reprogramming things because of vague user feedback is time not spent on other features.
The last I heard was this:

"Manual deflected bolts will travel towards a random enemy in range."

And that's not what it is now, I don't know what kind of feedback I'm supposed to give when I don't know what it's original feature was..
I thought it was ^that I mentioned above, but clearly it's not, I'm trying to give feedback as best as I can but that's not easy when your alledgedly correct knowledge just was proven incorrect.

Saber defense 3 already reflects 50% (!) of all deflected blasterbolts towards the crosshair. Manual Deflect is an added extra that rewards people with better timing and reflexes with faster kills. Manually deflected bolts should travel towards or near the enemy it got from. If it doesn't have any extra feats to it, why should someone use it when they can also buy Saber Defense 3 to reflect shots back at their crosshair?

What kind of logic is that?

Noone is even going to bother, so I'm on my knees again here; please return it to how it 'was' before.


On stealth:

In Enemy Territory: Noquarter there's a Covert Ops skill that makes you completely silent save for gun sounds. No footsteps, no breathing, no splashing. Nothing.
And it works very well, in combination with our current cloak I think it could prove extremely useful.

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Old 11-09-2006, 03:56 AM   #135
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This sounds like a misunderstanding. I thought you guys stated before that MB2 had the highest level of reflection reflect bolts in the direction of the crosshair and that was what you guys were wanting.

If you guys don't want that to be the highest level reflection, we could switch that with the auto reflections. That wouldn't be hard to do.


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Old 11-09-2006, 04:09 AM   #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by razorace
This sounds like a misunderstanding. I thought you guys stated before that MB2 had the highest level of reflection reflect bolts in the direction of the crosshair and that was what you guys were wanting.

If you guys don't want that to be the highest level reflection, we could switch that with the auto reflections. That wouldn't be hard to do.
No that was when I posted about the effects of Saber Defense being a "deflect" feature. This is about Manual Deflect, a feature we added when me, you, Saber and Dr.Shaft were in a server. The time that you added a bit of code to recognize when a manual deflect was performed and echo it ingame. Then afterwards you added it and told us that it should "reflect to a random enemy in range".

This isn't about saber defense 3, this is about the Manual Deflect feature in which you need to tap fake/swing at the moment a blaster bolt hits you to deflect it straight back to an opponent. We have enough towards-crosshair reflecting, this is something better that is supposed to add more levels of strategy and skill to deflecting.

In MB2, all levels of Saber Deflect reflect bolts towards the crosshair but only in a set amount. For example, saber deflect 1 reflects about 1 out of every 15, saber Deflect 2 reflects 1/10 and Saber Deflect 3 reflects 1 out of 3 it seems. Though these percentages drop straight down if you're getting barraged by gunfire, so if a gunner keeps his lock on you for more than 2 seconds and continues to hit youwith his blaster, you are unable to reflect shots back untill you don't dodge a shot or untill the gunner misses.

As I said, MANUAL deflect is a different feature that me, you, Saber (datguru) and dr.Shaft tested in a playtesting match. I remember it very good, we were testing weapons and I got the idea of manual deflect, Saber and Dr.Shaft seemed to like the idea but you were still against it because you thought it would be too hard to do. Then you added a bit of code that echoes a message ingame if a bolt is manually deflected correctly and lo-and-behold it was easier than you thought. Then you added it into the game but only had it reflect shots towards the crosshair, I told you that that wouldn't be any good because people wouldn't use it. People wouldn't be rewarded enough for their timing and skill like they are in the saber system.

You modified it and told me "It should reflect back at a random enemy in range.". This is not how it is currently, but it was the last information I got about it from you. Now it seems that what you said was it's effect, ISN'T it's effect anymore and that's what I'm getting at.

I don't care what you do to Saber Defense, if you ask me, it's great the way it is. Maybe have a few more features from MB affect it like that the percentage goes down to 0% as you get hit more and then regenerates back up if you stop deflecting for a while.

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Old 11-09-2006, 04:39 AM   #137
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I know what you're talking about.

I'm just confused about how manual deflection (which is technically level 2 reflection in the code) is "better" than saber defence 3's level 3 reflections (aimed at the crosshairs).

Anyway, you're right, the manual reflections don't actually reflect towards a random enemy in the area, it always send the bolt back at whoever fired the bolt.


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Old 11-09-2006, 05:34 AM   #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by razorace
I know what you're talking about.

I'm just confused about how manual deflection (which is technically level 2 reflection in the code) is "better" than saber defence 3's level 3 reflections (aimed at the crosshairs).

Anyway, you're right, the manual reflections don't actually reflect towards a random enemy in the area, it always send the bolt back at whoever fired the bolt.
Yeah sorry I lashed at ya a bit, been happening more and more lately.
My classmates' ignorance is pissing me off

And I'm glad the problem is acknowledged then, I'm content.

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Old 11-09-2006, 06:48 AM   #139
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So the problem isn't that aimed reflections overrule the manual blocks?

Rather, you want the automatically reflected shots to be aimed at any enemies in the area?

As for some good news, I've been able to impliment the flamethrower. It is still rough around the edges and it works and should be in the next beta. FYI, after some trying, I decided to impliment it as an item. It was easier to impliment that way and allows players to snap use it while using other weapons.


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Old 11-09-2006, 07:52 AM   #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by razorace
So the problem isn't that aimed reflections overrule the manual blocks?

Rather, you want the automatically reflected shots to be aimed at any enemies in the area?

As for some good news, I've been able to impliment the flamethrower. It is still rough around the edges and it works and should be in the next beta. FYI, after some trying, I decided to impliment it as an item. It was easier to impliment that way and allows players to snap use it while using other weapons.
NO! Wait, I misread. I'm home now, more time:
The automatically deflected bolts by the saber defense skill should stay as they are now. The MANUALLY deflected bolts should go towards an enemy's area.

Oh yes, at the flamethrower part, my face is now this:


Last edited by Maxstate; 11-09-2006 at 08:13 AM.
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Old 11-09-2006, 10:01 PM   #141
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News Update Guys: I fixed the negative skill problem, while Razor and I were discussing the possibilities earlier tonight.

Still need to fix the issues with the gun skills being set higher at random and make sure skill and skillPoints are reset on map reset as I have just noticed my weapon skills were still set over a restart in the UI yet I only had melee.


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Old 11-10-2006, 12:58 AM   #142
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Originally Posted by ensiform
News Update Guys: I fixed the negative skill problem, while Razor and I were discussing the possibilities earlier tonight.

Still need to fix the issues with the gun skills being set higher at random and make sure skill and skillPoints are reset on map reset as I have just noticed my weapon skills were still set over a restart in the UI yet I only had melee.
Good work.


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Old 11-10-2006, 12:19 PM   #143
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Originally Posted by JRHockney*
Good work.
QFT.
Nice to see more coding activity

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Old 11-10-2006, 05:31 PM   #144
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Great news!

After a steady time of discussing, crying, laughing and maybe even begging ( nah),
I'm happy to announce that we got permission to use a nice lookin' star wars blaster model :

http://jediknight2.filefront.com/fil...r_Pistol;38928

pics:
http://jediknight2.filefront.com/scr...s/File/38928/2
http://jediknight2.filefront.com/scr...ts/File/38928/

The DE-10 made by WarShark.

Comes complete with shaders, sounds and effects.

Now the big question: Do you guys have time/the ability to implement this as it's own weapon or item? I've spoken to Ace about adding weapons before and I don't think it was quite easy to do, but I think that this pistol could bring a lot of good stuff OJP's way in the future.

It is choice and customization, not to mention that it's also a plain new toy to play with!

Given it's own special damage, rate of fire and accuracy properties and having it in the profile screen could well an added factor of success

How about we try it? When I say we, ofcourse I mean the coders locked up in the dungeon *whip crack*

But seriously, what do you guys think?

Edit:
http://www.razerwolf.pwp.blueyonder....E-10Pistol.jpg
Zomgawt111!

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Old 11-10-2006, 05:49 PM   #145
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I'm not familar with this kind of weapon. Was it in the movies or is it only a SW:G item?


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Old 11-10-2006, 05:52 PM   #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by razorace
I'm not familar with this kind of weapon. Was it in the movies or is it only a SW:G item?
I don't think it was visibly in the movies, but to be honest, I don't really care and I don't think the majority of people will care either.

And yeah, as far as I can tell it's limited to SWG only. But it's late so I might have missed some pics

This gun prawns, it would be like OJP's deagle (without the insanely high recoil and lack of bullets it has ofcourse, lol)

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Old 11-11-2006, 10:25 AM   #147
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I'm thinking maybe... on the force profile screen we should draw how much total skill they have, how many points have been used, and like currently how many they have left.

Also, another suggestion for the profile: maybe have the text of each item clickable and open up another popup window that has a description about each, and if it has different levels say what the difference is.


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Old 11-11-2006, 10:27 AM   #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ensiform
I'm thinking maybe... on the force profile screen we should draw how much total skill they have, how many points have been used, and like currently how many they have left.

Also, another suggestion for the profile: maybe have the text of each item clickable and open up another popup window that has a description about each, and if it has different levels say what the difference is.
I agree very much Ensiform.

As I'm almost finished with the HTML conversion, I'd like to do the writing about all the skills and stuff if necessary

Also, can you guys make it so that when we get scopes or weapon improvements, that buying more skill in a weapon makes it better, id est, gives it a scope or more damage instead of giving it more ammo?

Please?

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Old 11-11-2006, 10:30 AM   #149
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Well as for writing more stuff, that really isn't necessary as JKA already has most of the descriptions in one of the string files.

Quote:
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Also, can you guys make it so that when we get scopes or weapon improvements, that buying more skill in a weapon makes it better, id est, gives it a scope or more damage instead of giving it more ammo?
You mean like if pistol is scoped it draws a scope on the weapon like an add-on to it?

As for changing damages, and other stuff in g_weapons well that is relatively easy to do, just check if valid client, and if sk level for that item is > 0 then mutliply it or something by the level of skill *or* have a struct that lists the amounts depending on the level. Either way works just as good.

Also guys, seeing as we do have CoOp maps and such and it is nice to see items, etc in MP maps too but what are your ideas on porting the SP-style seeing code in the cgame that allows us to see items, missiles, and other ents like objectives, etc and not just players. This could also be added to Basic (for CoOp only since it is a feature in SP)


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Old 11-11-2006, 10:33 AM   #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ensiform
Well as for writing more stuff, that really isn't necessary as JKA already has most of the descriptions in one of the string files.



You mean like if pistol is scoped it draws a scope on the weapon like an add-on to it?
It doesn't need to draw anything on it, no visual changes needed at all since we already have everything.

I was talking about this kinda thing:

You buy level 1 E-11 and you get a simple E-11 with primary fire only.
You buy level 2 and you get an E-11 with increased primary fire rate of fire and damage.
You buy E-11 level 3 and you get secondary fire, which is a scope.

Pistol 1: Simple one shot pistol.
Pistol 2: Pistol does more damage.
Pistol 3: Pistol does even more damage.

Jetpack 1: Small amount of jet fuel, ability to stay in the air for a few seconds.
Jetpack 2: More jetfuel.
Jetpack 3: Full jetfuel capacity.

Etc. etc.

Understand?

If we get the concussion rifle, bowcaster and DE-10 in as well, I'm hoping they will get settings liek this too

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Old 11-11-2006, 10:37 AM   #151
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I'm not sure we can really or should add more weapons that are player usable as that might fu(k things up.


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Old 11-11-2006, 10:38 AM   #152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ensiform
I'm not sure we can really or should add more weapons that are player usable as that might fu(k things up.
Well I really can't see any gunners taking interest in this mod if they can only use 3 types of blasters...

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Old 11-11-2006, 01:16 PM   #153
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On the sidenote, I found this mod

http://jediknight2.filefront.com/fil...ing_Pack;72011

And I really like what I see. Maybe we could ask the mod author for permission to use some of it?

Btw is moviesaberclashes included in default OJP? I figured that most of us are using that, but for those who arent, it could be a bit of a problem getting into pure servers, whose hosts use the moviesaberclashes mod. Again, get permission from author?
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Old 11-11-2006, 01:22 PM   #154
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On the sidenote, I found this mod

http://jediknight2.filefront.com/fil...ing_Pack;72011

And I really like what I see. Maybe we could ask the mod author for permission to use some of it?

Btw is moviesaberclashes included in default OJP? I figured that most of us are using that, but for those who arent, it could be a bit of a problem getting into pure servers, whose hosts use the moviesaberclashes mod. Again, get permission from author?
Ace mades his own movie clashes and I think and I like them a lot, so count me out. I'm too busy getting permission to use gun models :P

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Old 11-11-2006, 01:49 PM   #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxstate
Ace mades his own movie clashes and I think and I like them a lot, so count me out. I'm too busy getting permission to use gun models :P

I actually use my own movie saber clash effect. Its bigger than the default one and makes the fights look alot cooler.


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Old 11-11-2006, 03:46 PM   #156
Maxstate
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I actually use my own movie saber clash effect. Its bigger than the default one and makes the fights look alot cooler.
I just kinda scraped off the outer white corona since it makes distant saber battles look like papparazzi marathons

Other than that, .

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Old 11-11-2006, 05:10 PM   #157
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Some big suggestions:

- Make skill buying dynamic for everything. IE: Buy rocket in this life, and it gives it to you.

- In CTF, when you return the flag you should get +5 skill (debatable on amount)

- In CTF, when you kill the flag carrier you should get +5 skill (debatable on amount)

- In JM, if you kill the JM you should get some skill.

- In JM, if you are the JM you should get skill for how long you can hold the saber (have checks for being idle though so people cannot sit idle as JM to get lots of points)


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Old 11-11-2006, 05:31 PM   #158
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Originally Posted by ensiform
Some big suggestions:

- Make skill buying dynamic for everything. IE: Buy rocket in this life, and it gives it to you.

- In CTF, when you return the flag you should get +5 skill (debatable on amount)

- In CTF, when you kill the flag carrier you should get +5 skill (debatable on amount)

- In JM, if you kill the JM you should get some skill.

- In JM, if you are the JM you should get skill for how long you can hold the saber (have checks for being idle though so people cannot sit idle as JM to get lots of points)

All good ideas I think. The other game modes have not been focused on and this would be a good place to start. Does anyone know if we have we done anything to balance holocron to our point system yet? IF not, we should probably be thinking about that as well.


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Old 11-11-2006, 05:41 PM   #159
ensiform
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Originally Posted by JRHockney*
All good ideas I think. The other game modes have not been focused on and this would be a good place to start. Does anyone know if we have we done anything to balance holocron to our point system yet? IF not, we should probably be thinking about that as well.
I haven't ever really played holocron so I really would not know, though maybe point system should be disabled like it is in Siege as the holocron gives saber powers, etc ?


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Old 11-11-2006, 06:00 PM   #160
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Also guys, seeing as we do have CoOp maps and such and it is nice to see items, etc in MP maps too but what are your ideas on porting the SP-style seeing code in the cgame that allows us to see items, missiles, and other ents like objectives, etc and not just players. This could also be added to Basic (for CoOp only since it is a feature in SP)
Oh, so you mean making Force Seeing allow you to see nearby items and objectives in addition to other players?
Quote:
I'm not sure we can really or should add more weapons that are player usable as that might fu(k things up.
Agreed. Adding new weapons looks pretty complicated and easy to screw up.

Quote:
Some big suggestions:

- Make skill buying dynamic for everything. IE: Buy rocket in this life, and it gives it to you.

- In CTF, when you return the flag you should get +5 skill (debatable on amount)

- In CTF, when you kill the flag carrier you should get +5 skill (debatable on amount)
These all seem like good ideas.

Quote:
- In JM, if you kill the JM you should get some skill.
I don't think you should get points for killing the JM simply because players will be getting experience naturally by hurting the JM, who should have a LOT of experience points.

Quote:
- In JM, if you are the JM you should get skill for how long you can hold the saber (have checks for being idle though so people cannot sit idle as JM to get lots of points)
This is tricky. Should the JM have maxed out Skill points in all ranks? I'm not really sure how the JM should have experience allociated. Secondly, should we maybe restrict him to Jedi powers only or should we allow the JM to also be a super merc?

Quote:
Originally Posted by UDM
On the sidenote, I found this mod

http://jediknight2.filefront.com/fi...ning_Pack;72011

And I really like what I see. Maybe we could ask the mod author for permission to use some of it?
Looks like it has promise, submit a task ticket that asks us to look into that. Maybe their Force_Fire effect would be able to replace the current flamethrower effect I'm using, which causes FPS drops.


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