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View Poll Results: Will money determine the fate of our planet?
Yes 1 10.00%
No 8 80.00%
money makes the world go around 1 10.00%
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Thread: If Earth was threaten with a major danger, will money determine the fate our planet?
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Old 10-28-2006, 09:47 AM   #41
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I'm sure if such a thread did arise the scientists of the world would be quite happy to work on the problem for free. after all if they fail there wouldn't be a lot of use in money would there?
But if they were to succeed? They would have just saved humanity, for crying out loud. They'll want something.
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Old 10-28-2006, 10:40 AM   #42
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And what about while they worked? Who pays for their food, housing, clothing, medicine, electricity, candy, doggies, and other goods? Are they supposed to faste in tin sheds for the duration of the project "for the better of Man"?

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Old 10-28-2006, 11:21 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mace MacLeod
No, your philosophy discussions just confuse me because you have a penchant for not making sense when you post in a hurry or a fit of temper, and you keep resorting to using gimmicky bold and colored fonts in substitute for coherent arguments and proper grammar. I mean, look at the title of your thread. Aside from the silly verb tense mistakes, you specifically asked whether money would determine our fate if the Earth was threatened. This is an unrelated circumstance to our current use of money and capital. It's like you're trying to have two debates at once here.
Do you have anything else better to say then always putting me down?
This is a good logical question for society to ponder on, Mace.

Back to the topic at hand.
Do you agree with my philosophy question?
Or, not?

Last edited by windu6; 10-28-2006 at 11:43 AM.
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Old 10-28-2006, 02:09 PM   #44
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I call them like I see them. And no, I don't agree. As I've said before.


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Old 10-28-2006, 02:29 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mace MacLeod
I call them like I see them. And no, I don't agree. As I've said before.
Ok, you know I can get really piss and angry at you.
But I will be cool this time.

Thanks, for your answer.
All I wanted to know was your opinion, Mace.
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Old 10-28-2006, 03:01 PM   #46
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Look, as far as I understand it, your supposition wound up being this:

"Money will be useless in the event of a global catastrophe that destroys the human race/civilization. Therefore, money is useless now."

This is simply faulty logic, which is why I don't agree with it. Nothing personal involved.


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Old 10-28-2006, 03:19 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mace MacLeod
Look, as far as I understand it, your supposition wound up being this:
"Money will be useless in the event of a global catastrophe that destroys the human race/civilization. Therefore, money is useless now."
It is a philosophy discussion.
I enjoy thinking about questions such as this topic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mace MacLeod
This is simply faulty logic, which is why I don't agree with it.
This is not faulty logic, you seem to be defending society dependency on money.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mace MacLeod
Nothing personal involved.
We are cool, Mace
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Old 10-28-2006, 03:35 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by Dagobahn Eagle
And what about while they worked? Who pays for their food, housing, clothing, medicine, electricity, candy, doggies, and other goods? Are they supposed to faste in tin sheds for the duration of the project "for the better of Man"?
The key word here is pays.
If the world is threaten then money is pointless, Dagobahn.
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Old 10-28-2006, 04:42 PM   #49
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No matter anyone's feelings towards money, be it good or bad, it is a necessity. Plain and simple. There has got to be some system of exchange in any society.

If there were no money, then nobody would work in crappy jobs. We would have no food service, janitorial, or garbage collection employees, because why do those jobs when you don't need a paycheck to put food on the table?

Or even if we were to implement a system where people are assigned their given jobs, and face punishment if they fail to do them in a satisfactory manner, there will still be problems with resentment. Since there is no money, there is no difference in reward for a person who sits in a tollbooth all day and a heart surgeon. One of them didn't really have to go to school at all and has an easy, low stress job while the other spent 20+ years in school and has people's lives in their hands constantly. You don't think one deserves better compensation? Because if there isn't any, then the heart surgeon is getting screwed, and they will know it.

Humans simply aren't benevolent enough to work like that without any compensation. Sure, in your bizarre scenario of the world being on the verge of catastrophe people would likely be willing to part with large sums of money, people would be willing to work towards a solution without expecting pay, but this is a different circumstance. Here they are working towards the survival of themselves and the human race. Their motivation to do the work is survival. How will flipping burgers at McDonald's help save humanity?



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Old 10-28-2006, 04:48 PM   #50
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Because doctors need jobs. McDonald's gives doctors patients. McDonald's is good.

Money is neccessary as it gives people a common standard for trading. We simply can't make do without it, no matter the negative implications.

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Old 10-28-2006, 08:00 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by windu6
This is not faulty logic, you seem to be defending society dependency on money.
Um...yes it is. The context of money being useless in the future presupposes conditions which are not present now. The circumstances which may at some undefined time in the future that might be decades, centuries or even millenia away that might render trading capital or trade media irrelevant cannot be retroactively applied. It's like saying, "Crossbows are obsolete tactical military weapons now, so crossbows must always have been obsolete." Doesn't work that way.


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Old 10-28-2006, 08:11 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mace MacLeod
Um...yes it is. The context of money being useless in the future presupposes conditions which are not present now. The circumstances which may at some undefined time in the future that might be decades, centuries or even millenia away that might render trading capital or trade media irrelevant cannot be retroactively applied. It's like saying, "Crossbows are obsolete tactical military weapons now, so crossbows must always have been obsolete." Doesn't work that way.
Oh, you is going to give me a example about crossbows. You still don't understand my question.
I am not saying that money was always obsolete.
I was saying that if you continue to defend the use of money.
Then you are saying that money will ultimately and absolutely will have the final word on the fate of our society.
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Old 10-28-2006, 08:21 PM   #53
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That doesn't even make any sense. As Mace has pointed out, saying that because we use money NOW, doesn't mean that in some unknown circumstance in our future where it is important that we ignore it we won't, because we use it now.

Your arguments have no logical basis, are completely unsound, and fallacious.



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Old 10-28-2006, 08:22 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by windu6
Oh, you is going to give me a example about crossbows. You still don't understand my question.
I am not saying that money was always obsolete.
I was saying that if you continue to defend the use of money.
Then you are saying that money will ultimately and absolutely will have the final word on the fate of our society.
...Wow. Just... wow. Please tell me that English is your second or third language and that something is being lost in translation.



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Old 10-28-2006, 08:31 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ET Warrior
Your arguments have no logical basis, are completely unsound, and fallacious.
QFE.
Quote:
Originally Posted by windu6
I was saying that if you continue to defend the use of money.
Then you are saying that money will ultimately and absolutely will have the final word on the fate of our society.
Reread the above quote.


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Old 10-28-2006, 09:28 PM   #56
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Ok, ET, Mace and Jmac.

I will give you all these examples, for you three to think about.

Remember I am not trying to convince no one of my opinion.
I just wanted to know your opinions, so breaking out in anger and calling my reasoning illogical that it have no basis, completely unsound, and fallacious, is not really called for.


Pattern one:
The oil in the world is beginning to start runing out, that has been reported by experts.
When hear this discussion I always hear a discussion about the effect it will have on the world's economy.

Pattern two: When hear of the effect of global warming, that will possibility lead to a mini Ice Age I still continue to hear about the effect it will have on the Earth's economy.

Pattern Three:The Sun might have a major corona mass ejection some time in the future. That if we don't prepare for, it will cause our society to be back in the stone age.
Because our society dependency on electricity.
I still to hear those same scientists and government officials.
Discussing at great lenght the effect this kind of disaster will have on our society economy.

I don't need to post no more patterns, because 3 are a enough to convince me that I might have to start to get worried about money's influence on our society.

These patterns that I have seen has seem to me, that they are building up to the deciding factor.

That if, money will actually determine the fate of our society.

Also If you think, Jmac that I am being a conspiracy nut here you already know that I don't care about what you think.


I am having a great discussion about philosophy here I am not getting mad at no one.
Or calling no one's comments stupid.

I am just letting the ridicule flow
I am still cool with yall.

Last edited by windu6; 10-28-2006 at 09:49 PM.
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Old 10-28-2006, 09:48 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by windu6
Pattern one:
The oil in the world is beginning to start runing out, that has been reported by experts.
When hear this discussion I always hear a discussion about the effect it will have on the world's economy.

Pattern two: When hear of the effect of global warming, that will possibility lead to a mini Ice Age I still continue to hear about the effect it will have on the Earth's economy.
That has less to do with the aspect of money, and much more to do with how people are too fond of their lifestyles to make a better difference for the future.

Quote:
Pattern Three:The Sun might have a major corona mass ejection some time in the future. That if we don't prepare for, it will cause our society to be back in the stone age.
Because our society dependency on electricity.
I still to hear those same scientists and government officials.
Discussing at great lenght the effect this kind of disaster will have on our society economy.
Link? I don't see how a solar flare could permanently destroy electricity in the world, considering most of it is stored as radioactive atoms and carbon fuels before use. If the solar flare would destroy those reserves, then it's likely the sun would've killed us along with them.

Quote:
I don't need to post no more patterns, because 3 are a enough to convince me that I might have to worried about money's influence on our society.

These patterns that I have seen has seem to me, to be building up to the deciding factor of will money determine the fate of our society.
Uh, alright. In each one, you mention about the impact would have on the economy. If that's the case as you are proposing, then money will "save the day" precisely because it's financially rational to do so.



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Old 10-28-2006, 10:17 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrion
That has less to do with the aspect of money, and much more to do with how people are too fond of their lifestyles to make a better difference for the future.
Whatever you say, Tyrion.


Quote:
Link? I don't see how a solar flare could permanently destroy electricity in the world, considering most of it is stored as radioactive atoms and carbon fuels before use. If the solar flare would destroy those reserves, then it's likely the sun would've killed us along with them.
I am giving patterns here, I am not saying that a solar flare might destroy the world's population.



Quote:
Uh, alright. In each one, you mention about the impact would have on the economy. If that's the case as you are proposing, then money will "save the day" precisely because it's financially rational to do so.
You still don't understand my question.
And, I don't feel like arguing with you.
You have your opinions and I have mine.

Like I have said, I am not trying to convince no one here of my beliefs.
If some of them in this world want continue to woship money go right ahead.
I am just trying to have a philosophy discussion.
I am not mad or furious with no one who disagree with me.
I just seem to keep pissing some people off on this thread.
Also I keep seem to be inviting ridicule of myself here.
I am not going to quit on my philosophy discussion here, though.
I am really enjoying this discussion.
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Old 10-28-2006, 10:40 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by windu6

You still don't understand my question.
And, I don't feel like arguing with you.
You have your opinions and I have mine.

I am just trying to have a philosophy discussion.
Can't have a good philosophical debate if opinions won't change.



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Old 10-28-2006, 11:13 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrion
Can't have a good philosophical debate if opinions won't change.
I don't care about changing no one else opinion.
We can still have a good philosophical debate if some people stop getting mad at me or one another.

When the ancient greek philosophers had debates such as this perplexing.
They may have went through patterns of anger, hatred and disdain for one another views.
Before they came to agree or disagree on one another views.

Arguments like this will always occur in society.
Everybody have their own views and uniqueness.
That is not going to be change by one such as myself.

That is why I like philosophy.


I know everybody that we need money as of now in this century.
I am not that weird.

I hate money with a passion.
But I know I need that ink and paper to eat, get entertainment and have a enjoyable life.
Because the only alternative is to go to jail for stealing or being killed, because I will be hell-bent on defending my freedom from the clutches of the law.

Last edited by windu6; 10-29-2006 at 12:45 AM.
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Old 10-29-2006, 08:46 AM   #61
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Okay windu6, you've now officially stumped me. And everyone else from the look of things. We're not mad at you or attacking you, we're trying to figure out what the hell you're talking about. Nobody understands your questions or hypotheses because you refuse to communicate them coherently. Patterns 1-3 illustrate various doomsday scenarios, and because you hear people asking about what effect it will have on the global economy this means money is the be-all end-all of human civilization?


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Old 10-29-2006, 09:59 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by Mace MacLeod
Okay windu6, you've now officially stumped me. And everyone else from the look of things. We're not mad at you or attacking you, we're trying to figure out what the hell you're talking about. Nobody understands your questions or hypotheses because you refuse to communicate them coherently. Patterns 1-3 illustrate various doomsday scenarios, and because you hear people asking about what effect it will have on the global economy this means money is the be-all end-all of human civilization?
The suspicion is, will money determine our fate.
Those patterns are just examples for people to ponder the question.
I am not saying anyone of those examples are the ones if they happen.
Will be the the deciding factor of this question about money's stranglehold on our society.

I gave those examples to put the connections leading to the ultimate disaster.
If that disaster will break money's stranglehold on our society.
By ultimately determining if money will be the issue in the light of a annihilation kind of a event at that time.
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Old 10-29-2006, 06:50 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by windu6
Also If you think, Jmac that I am being a conspiracy nut here you already know that I don't care about what you think.
What the **** are you talking about? I never said anything about you being a conspiracy nut. I said you weren't communicate your point/question in a coherent manner, or as Mace put it, I don't know what the hell you're talking about.



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Old 10-29-2006, 07:12 PM   #64
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I've tried my very best to ignore it, but once again I have to point out that I firmly believe you're all being drawn into responding to outright intentional trolling, here. I personally don't think Windu has any goal other than to provoke bemused responses and rather lukewarm conflict, which must amuse him in some perverse way.


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Old 10-29-2006, 07:45 PM   #65
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*shakes head* You know Spider AL, you just might be right. It's a shame though. Buried somewhere in all this there might be something worth discussing.

And windu6, I honestly have no idea what to make of you. There seems to be two people posting under the windu6 account; one of these people is an intellectual university student who can have conversations about things like higher mathematics, quantum mechanics and theoretical physics that frankly go way over my head, and there's this other person who remains a stranger to basic middle-school standards of logic and grammar. I really wish the first one got more airtime, because he seems like someone with genuine intelligence and something to offer besides petty annoyance. Let me know when he comes on.


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Old 10-29-2006, 08:11 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spider AL
I've tried my very best to ignore it, but once again I have to point out that I firmly believe you're all being drawn into responding to outright intentional trolling, here. I personally don't think Windu has any goal other than to provoke bemused responses and rather lukewarm conflict, which must amuse him in some perverse way.
You always to seem to think somebody is flaming.
I am not flaming no one in this thread I am being peaceful here.
It is you who is flaming, Spider.
You don't know what you are talking about.
You have'nt not even been here, Spider.
Until now !

I have said this:

Quote:
Also If you think, Jmac that I am being a conspiracy nut here you already know that I don't care about what you think.
To Jmac !

Because he said, I was trying to convince everybody here about everybody in the world was greedy and that my argument leads to an alien conspiracy.

I guess Jmac was referring to the The Pseudoscience of UFOs thread.

But I guess some moderator edited his post.

So, guess I can't defend myself properly, here.

But believe what yall want to, because I have been peaceful here.

I have'nt flame nobody.

I just been having a good argument about philosophy.

Last edited by windu6; 10-29-2006 at 10:00 PM.
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Old 10-29-2006, 08:18 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mace MacLeod
*shakes head* You know Spider AL, you just might be right. It's a shame though. Buried somewhere in all this there might be something worth discussing.
Well, he is completely wrong.

I guess because I was yall think I was flaming.
I just was having fun with the discussion.
I am sorry if that offended some people.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mace MacLeod
And windu6, I honestly have no idea what to make of you. There seems to be two people posting under the windu6 account; one of these people is an intellectual university student who can have conversations about things like higher mathematics, quantum mechanics and theoretical physics that frankly go way over my head, and there's this other person who remains a stranger to basic middle-school standards of logic and grammar. I really wish the first one got more airtime, because he seems like someone with genuine intelligence and something to offer besides petty annoyance. Let me know when he comes on.
Nope, that was me too.
Yes, I make mistakes in grammar.
I am not perfect at that.
Because I concentrate harder on physics and mathematics.
Also there is nothing wrong with my logic skills.
I guess my topic is to perplexing to some people.

Because I seem to say society should get rid of money now.
Because that disaster in the undetermined future will justified my argument to do so.

I have already said, that would mean chaos if currency disappears now.
Money is a control variable that keep order in society.

Last edited by windu6; 10-29-2006 at 08:34 PM.
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Old 10-29-2006, 08:47 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by windu6
.
Also there is nothing wrong with my logic skills.
I guess my topic is to perplexing to some people.
If it's perplexing to some people, then it's probably their own inability to understand.

If it's perplexing to everyone but yourself, then it's probably just very poorly expressed.



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Old 10-29-2006, 08:53 PM   #69
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Nobody thinks you're flaming. We think you're trolling. There's a difference.

Here's the question you've put forward as I see it:

In modern times, money is an important part of our society, and people depend on it to bring a sense of balance, order, and security to their lives. If the Earth were faced with a catastrophic disaster, would money be the most important thing on the collective mind of the people?

Am I close?
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Old 10-29-2006, 09:14 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrion
If it's perplexing to some people, then it's probably their own inability to understand.
Well, I am not going to say that because they will think I was flaming.

Quote:
If it's perplexing to everyone but yourself, then it's probably just very poorly expressed.
Well, I guess so.

I thought I have tried hard to express my argument clearly enough.
I guess people seem to think my arguments are contradictions.
To the argument of the continue use of money today.

Ok, let me give this example?

If you believe in something strongly then you must be willing to go wherever that belief will take you.

That is why I have said: If you support the continue use of money today, then you must be willing to support the possibility that money might have the final word on our society's fate.

So, a philosopher will conclude that money is ultimately worthless to any society.
If currency won't be the issue in the light of a world ending disaster or a species ending disaster for the society that depend on the use of currency.



Now, if yall don't get it, then I am so sorry.
I have tried to make yall understand my topic.



Tyrion, I wanted to ask you something
Do you have that invisible mode on?
Because your post seem to pop out of nowhere.

Last edited by windu6; 11-01-2006 at 02:02 PM.
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Old 10-29-2006, 09:45 PM   #71
Windu Chi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Doctor
Nobody thinks you're flaming. We think you're trolling. There's a difference.
By baited line you mean...; well I don't know what the hell you mean.

What baited line did I drew?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Doctor
Here's the question you've put forward as I see it:

In modern times, money is an important part of our society, and people depend on it to bring a sense of balance, order, and security to their lives. If the Earth were faced with a catastrophic disaster, would money be the most important thing on the collective mind of the people?

Am I close?
Hell, yeah !
That is exactly what I have meant all along.
That I have tied to my philosophy question.
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Old 10-29-2006, 10:26 PM   #72
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Let me say this--I understand what you're saying, I happen to disagree with what you're saying about money. Just because we use money now does not mean that we would be unable to give it up if some catastrophe required us to do so at some point in the future.


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Old 10-29-2006, 10:42 PM   #73
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If you support the continue use of money today, then you must be willing to support the possibility that money might have the final word on our society's fate.
This is where you're making that massive leap in logic, I think. While I of course support the use of money in today's society, I'm not willing to accept that money is the say-all end-all final word. I'm not willing to support that money will decide the outcome of the human race. It's human intelligence, wisdom, and compassion, or lack of same, that will decide the outcome of our race, whether that outcome be positive or negative.
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Old 10-29-2006, 11:19 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by The Doctor
This is where you're making that massive leap in logic, I think. While I of course support the use of money in today's society, I'm not willing to accept that money is the say-all end-all final word. I'm not willing to support that money will decide the outcome of the human race. It's human intelligence, wisdom, and compassion, or lack of same, that will decide the outcome of our race, whether that outcome be positive or negative.
Well, let us(society) hope that those humans have a higher intelligence, greater wisdom and more compassion to not let that evil of money's stranglehold and distraction, determine our species fate in the Milky Way galaxy.

But you know with those *******s like apprentice Bush and his sith lord master Dick Cheney getting into power.
Also their Oil Empire grasp on the control of society primitive resource of energy.

I will continue to worry about: intelligence,wisdom and compassion.

I have said primitive, because our society should have had put that crap in last place as a dependent energy resource of this planet by now.

We should have nuclear fusion technology by now.
Or, other amazing energy resources, that will probably have gotten us to the stars by now.

But that is another topic of discussion.

Last edited by windu6; 10-31-2006 at 02:52 PM.
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