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Old 01-01-2007, 05:12 AM   #1
RaV™
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Favoritism?

Just something of mention that sorta dunked itself into the bottom of my mind is how this forum shows favoritism aplenty. There I doubt is much to do with such, but I decided to stand on my soap box for this thread..Thank You.


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Old 01-01-2007, 05:25 AM   #2
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...what?




have a suggestion for the lf poll? pm me
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Old 01-01-2007, 10:05 AM   #3
Diego Varen
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...what?
Agreed. Explain yourself more please RaV™.
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Old 01-01-2007, 12:38 PM   #4
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Favoritism as in how some of the more accepted social people get a little bit more freedom's as for people post in their threads and actually look, my whole rant is just coming from the fanfic part of the forum as a lot of people have good stories going on, but no one attempts to read them because like I said they may not be as accepted as others...NOW i'm stepping off the soap box..


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Old 01-01-2007, 12:52 PM   #5
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I think the word RaV is looking for it 'cliques'.
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Old 01-01-2007, 01:11 PM   #6
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Not sure if there is anything that could be done about it. You can't really command people to read threads and reply to them, or make rules to that end.

You can probably only start with yourself to attempt to bring about change. Read other people's threads and post your thoughts, and perhaps someone will do the same to yours?

(I usually try to respond to any questions posted if I know something about the subject if no one else has in a few days, since I know how irritating it can be when your questions are ignored. Fanfics aren't really my area though since my mind is too set on how I imagine the KotOR crew to be able to enjoy other people's vision of them.)
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Old 01-01-2007, 01:38 PM   #7
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RaV, you can't force people to read or comment on anyone else's story. Maybe it's not their cup of tea, maybe they're waiting to see if you're going to just do a couple chapters and then move on to something else, maybe they're not sure how you'll handle critiques yet, maybe they're afraid to say anything to you.

I don't believe it's because of cliques or hating someone, though I do take your concern very seriously as I want CEC to be a welcoming kind of place. I do know that fics that get posted in regularly get a lot more readers and comments than ones that don't. It also took a good 6 or 7 chapters in mine before I got regular commenting and readership.

Here's the other thing--if you contribute to the community and make comments in others' fics, they will return the favor and comment in yours. It's not an official rule by any means (nor do I ever want to make it that way), and I don't even think a lot of people think it's even an 'unofficial/unwritten' rule. However, it has become a social convention for this particular forum. If you post in others' fics regularly, they get to know you and see your name there more often, which will tend to make them more curious about what's going on in your thread as well. I don't get near the readership/comments at kfm for my story (which I'm not upset about, btw) because I don't post as regularly there, it involves a less popular Kotor character than some of the other fics (femme Revan and Carth are favorites rather than Jolee), and I don't have the opportunity to comment on others' fics nearly as much there, so my name isn't out there as much for people to see. Here in CEC, the fics with the most readership/comments are done by authors who also make the most comments in others' fics.

It's also not a 1 for 1 proposition, i.e. you can't say to yourself 'I commented in x's fic, now he _has_ to comment in mine'. It's a courtesy, not an expectation.

I don't believe people are sitting around saying to themselves "Man, I just can't stand RaV. Let's not comment in his fic." Being publicly upset at people for not commenting is not going to win any readers and in fact is likely to drive them away because they're afraid saying anything to you will make you mad. You catch more flies with honey than vinegar.

On machievelli's reviews--since he started reviewing from the oldest and came forward in time, the newer your fic is, the longer it'll take to get reviewed because your fic will end up on the first page, and he's still back somewhere in page 4 or something like that. He picks the fics strictly chronologically, there's no other bias involved.

Hope that clears things up a bit. Please feel free to PM me if you have any questions.


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Old 01-01-2007, 02:23 PM   #8
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I actually want my works to be dissected and criticized to the max, that's why im so intent on getting mach to review my work to see exactly if I am doing anything work doing, plus I am not favoring the door swings both ways method as telling someone they're doing a good job so then they'd actually say thank you by returning the favor..Basically I want people to just throw my work into the fire and see what comes out on the other side..Thanks.


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Old 01-01-2007, 06:37 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RaV™
I actually want my works to be dissected and criticized to the max, that's why im so intent on getting mach to review my work to see exactly if I am doing anything work doing, plus I am not favoring the door swings both ways method as telling someone they're doing a good job so then they'd actually say thank you by returning the favor..Basically I want people to just throw my work into the fire and see what comes out on the other side..Thanks.
You don't have to give people a superficial review in order to get one in return, nor should anyone. I certainly let people know the areas in which they can improve, along with the things I thought worked well, as both pieces of information are very necessary to improve writing.

My point there is that you probably need to contribute to the community more in order for people to become familiar with you and you with them. It's not terribly fair to expect people to read and comment on your stories if you are unwilling to read and comment on theirs.


From MST3K's spoof of "Hercules Unchained"--heard as Roman medic soldiers carry off an unconscious Greek Hercules on a 1950's Army green canvas stretcher: "Hi, we're IX-I-I. Did somebody dial IX-I-I?"

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Old 01-02-2007, 03:29 PM   #10
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If you feel you aren't getting enough attention, ~snipped~ and then people will notice (not). It's inappropriate to joke about something like that. --Jae

All you really can do is be patient with your art/fics, people will eventually read/look and comment or critique about it. And if you feel you don't have enough people reading your thread, don't make a new one telling them to, just advertise it in your sig, people might look at it then, or maybe not.



Last edited by Jae Onasi; 01-02-2007 at 10:40 PM.
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Old 01-03-2007, 08:45 PM   #11
Grey Master
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That wans't very nice KotO[REvan]......
Also, I don't think there is any favoritism in the forums, people might pay more attention to seasoned writers, but show us how well you use words and everybody will notice you more.

Last edited by Grey Master; 01-07-2007 at 03:37 AM.
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Old 01-04-2007, 02:06 AM   #12
Emperor Devon
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Favoritism - of course it's there. I won't lie to you and say I think all the fics are equal and should be treated like that - I like some of them better than others, quite frankly, and I'll have a greater incentive to read something by an author who's written something I liked over something I thought was okay. That's personal taste for you; everyone has it. No one's going to comment on something that isn't their cup of tea; there's no reason for them to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RaV™
I actually want my works to be dissected and criticized to the max, that's why im so intent on getting mach to review my work
Keep in mind that mach has a job and a life; he's not here solely to review everything you write. I'm quite grateful for what he does myself, considering how it's all done during his spare time without compensation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RaV™
Basically I want people to just throw my work into the fire and see what comes out on the other side..Thanks.
Since I've already said a mouthful on this, I'll quote myself:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Me
And to stay on-topic, my thoughts on the issue of comments:

This may sound harsh to you, but there really isn't a lot to motivate someone to comment. The author can only say so much in response to 'good fic' after hearing it for the twenty-eight time. Yes, you can always write multiple-page reviews on it that are bound to result in a long discussion... But really, who has the time to do that? I'm fairly busy, and have grades to keep up - commenting on the fics that I read really isn't that high on my list of priorities, and hearing people ask for more does nothing to change that - I comment on things because I have something to say, not to massage anyone's ego or boost my post count.

Some circumstances are understandable - mach did an incredible job at Return From Exile, and was frustrated with the lack of comments in it. He asked for more, and that made a point - he was writing a fabulous story and wasn't getting any feedback, so I commented on it. But with that logic, why don't I go about commenting on everyone's fics just because they want to hear good things about it? Several reasons:

(1. It has to be worth commenting on. This may sound harsh, but if I read something I don't like, I won't say anything about it (if you have nothing good to say, it's best to stay silent). Even if it's kinda good, I won't have much of an opinion - there has to be an actual reason for me to say something. With mach's fic, I enjoyed it quite a bit and had opinions to share, so his request prompted me to.

(2. This forum is here to share fics, not positive reinforcement therapy. If your fic doesn't suit people's tastes, they won't comment on it - there's absolutely no reason to.

(3. Time. I'll flog this dead horse one more time - people are busy. Even with the fics I've enjoyed, my comments haven't been the best ones I could give - I simply didn't have time to write an essay, and I have other things to do.

(4. In real life, people won't recognize accomplishments if they've not accomplished much - that should be no different here.

So, why aren't you getting comments? Either your work doesn't appeal to people, they're busy, or they've been discouraged from saying anything. To elaborate that, a 'please tell me I did a good job whether you think that or not' post will be as effective as giving flies vinegar. I myself have rather Objectivist (not a typo, that's an actual philosophy) views on hard work. It sounds harsh, but that's life for you.

And to flog this dead yet another time: Does it really matter that much if people comment? You're here to write for yourself, not everyone else. If you're truly desperate for an opinion, ask a buddy or someone in real life - but don't expect other forumites to if they're not interested.


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Originally Posted by Sabretooth
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Last edited by Emperor Devon; 01-04-2007 at 03:08 AM. Reason: typo
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Old 01-06-2007, 03:14 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grey Master
That wans't very nice KotO[REvan]......
Yeah it was a bad joke. Sorry ^-^


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Old 01-07-2007, 06:59 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RaV™
I actually want my works to be dissected and criticized to the max, that's why im so intent on getting mach to review my work to see exactly if I am doing anything work doing, plus I am not favoring the door swings both ways method as telling someone they're doing a good job so then they'd actually say thank you by returning the favor..Basically I want people to just throw my work into the fire and see what comes out on the other side..Thanks.
Hey RaV - People usually come here to have fun. I can understand your concern on favortism, but I don't think it happens intentionally. Keep in mind that these forums are not professional in any way. If these forums were runned by a writter's guilde, I can see people taking your work seriously. When I design mods for KotOR, I don't expect anyone to download or leave feedback. I let my work answer for itself. If no one is commenting, I usually walk away for a while, so people will have a chance to read or play something I created. I create mods for myself, and everyone else wins from what is released. If they are not interested in my stuff, I am not going to worry about the world ending.

Look, you are a bright and creative person. I consider most of the people here some of the 'Best and Brightes' I have ever known. Let your work sit online for a while. If you are truely serious about writting, find a writters guilde online and ask for a critique. I wouldn't really worry. Eventually, someone will pick up your work and comment.



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Old 01-12-2007, 02:05 PM   #15
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