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Old 05-03-2007, 01:41 PM   #1
SilentScope001
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KOTOR 3: The Novel!

Now, I have little hope for K3.

But the True Sith plotline needs to be resolved, so that...er...so that they can make money. Yeah! Even so the ending is predetermined, people still want to know what happens...if only to glorify themselves.

So, maybe LA is thinking of just creating a novel where the main characters (Revan and Exile) go and fight the True Sith. The novel will assume canon (LSM, LSF), and in the end, True Sith gets genocided. Maybe, they can add in a third character, but I doubt it. After all, many people are fans of Revan and Exile, so let fuel the fanboyism.

...I hope they don't do this. Frankly, seeing True Sith get murdered off is just boring. But I wouldn't be suprised if they do it, so that no K3 gets made. And if it does do it this way, I hope it would be in the hands of a compentnet fan fic writer, maybe even a fan of the KOTOR series.


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"The Cambodian government has established many exciting-sounding 're-education camps' where both intellectuals and everyday citizens can be sent at any time," Day said. Well, we at Barnes & Noble have always supported re-education in America, and we intend to extend this policy to our new customers." For every hardcover book sold, Barnes & Noble will donate a dollar to the Cambodian government to help re-educate local children.
Full Article Here
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Old 05-03-2007, 03:08 PM   #2
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^^
I still can't get my head around why they haven't made a K3, I mean K1+TSL must have made them a lot of money? maybe they backed themselves into a corner with the TSL story, and can't come up with a good enough ending? A book would be easier to deal with I suppose. It would be hard to get right though, how would you write a character that has been played by a million different in a people a million different ways? It's gonna upset at least half of them.
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Old 05-03-2007, 04:25 PM   #3
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If the KotOR comic book runs long enough, it could also cover it, I suppose. Don't know if any of you have been reading it, but I actually think it's shaping up to be pretty good, not least because the writer clearly has taken the right approach and planned his entire story in advance.


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Old 05-03-2007, 05:25 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jediphile
If the KotOR comic book runs long enough, it could also cover it, I suppose. Don't know if any of you have been reading it, but I actually think it's shaping up to be pretty good, not least because the writer clearly has taken the right approach and planned his entire story in advance.
I was thinking that too, I agree its a really good read and feels like kotor.
just ordered #16
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Old 05-05-2007, 12:51 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adamqd
^^
I still can't get my head around why they haven't made a K3, I mean K1+TSL must have made them a lot of money? maybe they backed themselves into a corner with the TSL story, and can't come up with a good enough ending? A book would be easier to deal with I suppose. It would be hard to get right though, how would you write a character that has been played by a million different in a people a million different ways? It's gonna upset at least half of them.
I think we have to look at this from a different perspective.

We know:
1. How fans feel about TSL. Mix breed we are.
2. How Obsidian feels about TSL. How they apologized and all.

We do not know:
1. How Lucas Arts feels about what happend.

We can come up with speculations, but we will not have an actual answer.

What are some of the things we know? What questions are there?

1. Obsidian has pleaded with Lucas Arts (to do another KotOR), but they have not given them an answer. Why? (This is very important.)

2. We know Obsidian went on record, and they apologized for TSL's condition. (Keep in mind they did publiclly mention about Lucas Art's change in the deadline. Why? One could speculate. Why would you mention this if you were not pointing fingers?)

3. Could Lucas Arts be looking at another developer, for they were not satisfied with Obsidian's work? (We cannot actually say for 100% certainty what their cognitions are.)

We can speculate about these isssues, but no one really knows for sure. Fans view what happend to TSL from one perspective, and Lucas Arts sees the issue from another perspective.

There is also one other quesion we missed:

1. Why did Lucas Arts prevent Obsidian from making a 'content' patch?

Is this a seperate question, or does this reveal someting deeper. Maybe Lucas Arts is upset about TSL. Who knows?

---

When it comes to the novel, I am all for a 'Knights of the Old Republic' series. I think this would be better than a game.

Last edited by The Source; 05-05-2007 at 01:07 PM.
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Old 05-06-2007, 11:40 AM   #6
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If You Remember A While Back.
Lucas Arts Had Already Begun Work On Kotor 3.
Whilst Kotor 2 Was In Development.
But Had To Stop When Staff Had TO Be Laid Off.
Maybe LA Had Already Decided On A Plot For It.
Which A Content Patch Would Of Ruined.
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Old 05-06-2007, 11:44 AM   #7
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Quote:
1. Why did Lucas Arts prevent Obsidian from making a 'content' patch?
XBOX verison happens to not have XBox-Live. If a content patch was released, Xbox owners (like me) would whine.


Quote:
Originally Posted by The Onion
"The Cambodian government has established many exciting-sounding 're-education camps' where both intellectuals and everyday citizens can be sent at any time," Day said. Well, we at Barnes & Noble have always supported re-education in America, and we intend to extend this policy to our new customers." For every hardcover book sold, Barnes & Noble will donate a dollar to the Cambodian government to help re-educate local children.
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Old 05-06-2007, 02:06 PM   #8
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I can only see one true method of getting what we wanted. Assassinate head of LA then take control and force them to make it... Or the comics could cover it either way I have to buy something ( weapon in case 1) and in case two I have to start reading the comics...


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Old 05-06-2007, 02:47 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentScope001
...I hope they don't do this. Frankly, seeing True Sith get murdered off is just boring. But I wouldn't be suprised if they do it, so that no K3 gets made. And if it does do it this way, I hope it would be in the hands of a compentnet fan fic writer, maybe even a fan of the KOTOR series.

I wouldn't accept an novel or a book in exchange of a KotOR 3 game. But the way you said about the genocide of the True Sith, it just sounded cool to Revan and/or the Exile die with them, with whatever killed them.
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Old 05-07-2007, 12:42 AM   #10
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Well yea, but they could still make good money with a KOTOR novel, graphic or not. But it should be after the final installment in the game series.


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Old 05-07-2007, 12:53 AM   #11
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Quote:
1. Obsidian has pleaded with Lucas Arts (to do another KotOR), but they have not given them an answer. Why? (This is very important.)

2. We know Obsidian went on record, and they apologized for TSL's condition. (Keep in mind they did publiclly mention about Lucas Art's change in the deadline. Why? One could speculate. Why would you mention this if you were not pointing fingers?)

3. Could Lucas Arts be looking at another developer, for they were not satisfied with Obsidian's work? (We cannot actually say for 100% certainty what their cognitions are.)

We can speculate about these isssues, but no one really knows for sure. Fans view what happend to TSL from one perspective, and Lucas Arts sees the issue from another perspective.

There is also one other quesion we missed:

1. Why did Lucas Arts prevent Obsidian from making a 'content' patch?

Is this a seperate question, or does this reveal someting deeper. Maybe Lucas Arts is upset about TSL. Who knows?
If that's the case, then this is just ridiculous.

Sure, I have my whines about TSL, but that doesn't change the fact that it's on my top 5 all-time favorite games lists. Sure, I like K1 better, but that doesn't mean that I wouldn't want to see Obsidian make a K3.

None of it makes any sense. Sure, TSL may have been a bit incomplete, for whatever reason, but if an "incomplete" game can be THAT MUCH FUN... then damn, I for one would sure like to see Obsidian have a whack at making a "complete" K3.

TSL was FAR from a disaster. You want to see disaster, ask some ex-SWG players what they think of SOE. THAT is disaster. Never played SWG myself, but I've seen some players go on cussing rampages against SOE. You hear NOTHING like that about Obsidian.

For the second time, it makes no sense at all. KotOR has one of the biggest fanbases of any Star Wars game, mmorpg not included. The original is hailed as one of the greatest RPGs of all time. The sequel made some great gameplay advances. Both of them must have brought in oodles of money. And let's face it, K3 would be a hit no matter WHO designed it, just because it has "Knights of the Old Republic" in the title.

Makes no sense.


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Old 05-07-2007, 06:35 AM   #12
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Sure, I have my whines about TSL, but that doesn't change the fact that it's on my top 5 all-time favorite games lists. Sure, I like K1 better, but that doesn't mean that I wouldn't want to see Obsidian make a K3.

I agree. Given enough time and given original ideas, Obsidian could make another good game and perhaps a great game.

TSL was FAR from a disaster. You want to see disaster, ask some ex-SWG players what they think of SOE. THAT is disaster. Never played SWG myself, but I've seen some players go on cussing rampages against SOE. You hear NOTHING like that about Obsidian.

This, I disagree on. TSL wasn't a disaster as a game, rather, it failed in manging the series and the gaps left by Kotor. It was a commercial failure, as it wasn't as good as selling as its predecessor.


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Old 05-07-2007, 06:47 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Onasi
It was a commercial failure, as it wasn't as good as selling as its predecessor.
Care to back this statement up with some proof?


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Old 05-07-2007, 08:35 PM   #14
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This, I disagree on. TSL wasn't a disaster as a game, rather, it failed in manging the series and the gaps left by Kotor. It was a commercial failure, as it wasn't as good as selling as its predecessor.
So you're saying that any sequel that isn't as good selling as its predecessor is a commercial failure? I'd disagree on that statement. A commercial success, in my opinion and in the most simple of terms, is turning a substantial profit. Given that most people who own K1 also own TSL, I'd say, based on logic, that TSL was quite a commercial success.

And either way, I don't think the gap between K1's sales and TSL's sales is too large. Could be wrong there, but it doesn't seem to me that it would be.


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Old 05-07-2007, 09:08 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambrose
So you're saying that any sequel that isn't as good selling as its predecessor is a commercial failure? I'd disagree on that statement. A commercial success, in my opinion and in the most simple of terms, is turning a substantial profit. Given that most people who own K1 also own TSL, I'd say, based on logic, that TSL was quite a commercial success.

And either way, I don't think the gap between K1's sales and TSL's sales is too large. Could be wrong there, but it doesn't seem to me that it would be.
A sequel, with a nice plot, good advertising, and actual original game play, would do as well if not better then at least Kotor II and probably Kotor. Kotor II, to my knowledge, did not bring the same profit the first kotor did. Not that it was excepted by me, as I realize most sequel don't do as well ( though that has been proven wrong many, many times Anyway, it wasn't a complete failure, as it did turn a profit but not doubt wasn't as good as Kotor. I'm not saying a Kotor III couldn't be, though. I'm merely saying that if they want a game to make a profit, make sure it has all the qualities of a great game.

Care to back this statement up with some proof?

Sure. First, Kotor racked in over 40 game of the year awards, I cannot find the official amount for Kotor II, but I doubt it's that much. I wish I could fins the profits each games turned, but I cannot.. I'll try again. I'm not saying Kotor II wasn't a great game, it was! I'm just saying that it could be considered a somewhat of a failure for profits and acclaim.


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Old 05-07-2007, 09:13 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal
Sure. First, Kotor racked in over 40 game of the year awards, I cannot find the official amount for Kotor II, but I doubt it's that much.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wikipedia
Despite the feelings of negativity towards the game's cut content and incomplete state, the game was generally well received by fans and critics alike. Mirroring the success of the first game, The Sith Lords has garnered over thirty five "Game of the Year" awards.[1] The game received high marks from major reviewers - 8.5/10 from Gamespot, 4.5/5 from Gamespy and 93% from IGN.
Source: http://www.obsidianent.com/games.html

Also, Spiderman 2 made less money than Spiderman 1 in theaters. But that didn't stop them from making Spiderman 3. LA is just thinking to itself "Milk this KOTOR cash cow for all its worth."


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Old 05-07-2007, 09:17 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Onasi
Anyway, it wasn't a complete failure, as it did turn a profit but not doubt wasn't as good as Kotor.
Game critics may say it wasn't as good, but I respectively disagree. IMO, TSL was far superior.

And about a K3 novel, I seriously hope not, for three simple reasons.

1.) Experiencing the story from a first-person perspective is much more interesting and fun than reading it.

2.) A book would mean a non-variable story, meaning they would have to use canon, which I would hate.

3.) A game would rack in a whole lot more money than a book (for LA's sake on this one)


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Old 05-07-2007, 09:34 PM   #18
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SS's post seems to sum it up. Far from a failure, in terms of finance or, in many opinions, gameplay.

And the point of my original post was simply that TSL was QUITE enough of a hit to warrant a sequel. Seems like a no-brainer to me, there is no doubt in my mind that a K3 would turn an enormous profit, even if (or possibly even "especially if") Obsidian were to design it.


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Old 05-07-2007, 09:43 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambrose
SS's post seems to sum it up. Far from a failure, in terms of finance or, in many opinions, gameplay.

And the point of my original post was simply that TSL was QUITE enough of a hit to warrant a sequel. Seems like a no-brainer to me, there is no doubt in my mind that a K3 would turn an enormous profit, even if (or possibly even "especially if") Obsidian were to design it.
Yes, I agree 100% on that; Kotor II was a great game and made so that it can be expanded. I guess I was swayed by the game critics, and didn't bother to really look into it. I'll look into before spouting out facts ( though, really, my and other peoples opinions) next time.


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Old 05-08-2007, 07:51 PM   #20
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Ambrose, just so you know, NEVER EVER use SS as an appreviation to someone's name in a Star War forum... that name belongs to something vile and unholy ...

But to be fair, they way TSL ends(if you call that an ending that is) really requires some additional work. A book, or the comic for that matter, would be nice to wrap things up. Then when k3 finally arrives there is a more solid basis on what had happened. No, there is no need to go into the details of what Revan/Exile had done really, and definitely no need to mention the variable characters due to gender and things(like brianna, Mira, Hanharr or even that jedi stalking perv)

Obviously, an Extended edition TSL would be even better, but we know that would nevar happen. So sattle for something more relastic, like a comic or novel.
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Old 05-08-2007, 08:19 PM   #21
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There were a few chars that weren't droids that can continue on no matter what the alignment of the exile and/or revan.
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Old 05-08-2007, 09:14 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Onasi
Sure. First, Kotor racked in over 40 game of the year awards, I cannot find the official amount for Kotor II, but I doubt it's that much. I wish I could fins the profits each games turned, but I cannot.. I'll try again. I'm not saying Kotor II wasn't a great game, it was! I'm just saying that it could be considered a somewhat of a failure for profits and acclaim.
With all due respect this isn't proof by any stretch of the imagination.
Sorry but you made your statement out as fact, you aren't stating a fact here.

As SilentScope001 posted above TSL is not a "failure" as you state, around 35 or so game awards went to TSL and they generally do not give awards to failures.


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Old 05-08-2007, 09:19 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by RedHawke
With all due respect this isn't proof by any stretch of the imagination.
Sorry but you made your statement out as fact, you aren't stating a fact here.

As SilentScope001 posted above TSL is not a "failure" as you state, around 35 or so game awards went to TSL and they generally do not give awards to failures.
You can kill a man for trying . Like I said, I didn't really have any proof, just opinions based on what I heard. I don't at all think TSL was a complete and utter failure;it just wasn't great for me... Anyway, sorry about that. Next time I'll look into something before posting.

As for a novel, perhaps a novel about the events before/after a Kotor 3 game.


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Old 05-08-2007, 09:27 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Kal Onasi
You can kill a man for trying .
I am hardly "killing" anyone in pointing out their errors. Everyone makes errors from time to time.

Edit: Besides I was only asking for your source.


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Old 05-08-2007, 09:34 PM   #25
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I was only kidding with the "killing" part. As for a source, I only have the hundreds of times I've heard on message boards ( starwars.com and else where) that Kotor II is really a failure commercially. I can try to find statistics for profit of either game, but I doubt I'll have much success; both official sites are currently down. So, no, I have no proof nor facts to back up my claim that it was a commercial failure. It was indeed my error to not have anything to back up such a strong claim.


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Old 05-08-2007, 10:18 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Onasi
I was only kidding with the "killing" part.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Onasi
As for a source, I only have the hundreds of times I've heard on message boards ( starwars.com and else where) that Kotor II is really a failure commercially.
I learned long ago that just because you read/hear something all over the place doesn't make it true. However it can become an urban legend... time to call in the Mythbusters!


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Old 05-09-2007, 11:24 AM   #27
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Quote:
Obviously, an Extended edition TSL would be even better, but we know that would nevar happen. So sattle for something more relastic, like a comic or novel.
Actually, I think I could be fine if said book has two stories. One for LSF and another for DSF. We can then explorate from there what a LSM and a DSM Exile would do from there, and all the varations that are possible in TSL are sastified.


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Old 05-09-2007, 11:51 AM   #28
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i would never be happy with a kotor 3 book

in stead of a game

i loved both kotor and tsl.

though i prefer tsl if im honest.

they need to make a 3rd one.
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Old 05-09-2007, 12:33 PM   #29
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Does anyone know how many copies of Kotor and TSL were sold? Can't be that hard to find that out...
By the way, game awards and high ratings are no proof for commercial success.
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Old 05-09-2007, 12:55 PM   #30
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By the way, game awards and high ratings are no proof for commercial success.
I couldn't agree with this more

NWN2 (and Oblivion, and Doom3, and etc.) won about 20 awards before it was even publicly available

I'm not saying the above mentioned games, nor KotOR or TSL didn't sell well, I'm quite sure (read: positive) they made some big cash... but awards definitely aren't a benchmark I would ever use as a buying and/or success guide.

I 'would' like to see some numbers though, if anyone knows of a link.. I'll keep digging around to see what I can find.


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Old 05-09-2007, 01:38 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaelastraz
Does anyone know how many copies of Kotor and TSL were sold?
Don't remember numbers, but they were both big commercial successes.

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Old 05-09-2007, 03:59 PM   #32
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Don't remember numbers, but they were both big commercial successes.

I'd like to see numbers, because I'm not so willing to believing solely what people say; not that I don't believe you, I just rather not fall into a opinion again. Anyway, I think we've gotten a little off subject. Sorry 'bout that...


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Old 05-09-2007, 09:07 PM   #33
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Quote:
Don't remember numbers, but they were both big commercial successes.
To back that up, both KOTOR and TSL are "Platinum Hits" on the Xbox.

Quote:
Platinum Hits is a term used to refer to a line of select Xbox games that have sold over 400,000 units on the platform in the nine months after release [1] and have dropped in price from their original MSRP to a new price point of US$19.99, although multi-game packs may sell for more. Popular games such as Halo: Combat Evolved may have a delayed Platinum Hits release in order to make more sales at the original MSRP.
So, at least for KOTOR and TSL, they sold at least 400,000 units in the first nine months. Use that as a way of judging how many copies of TSL got sold. Regardless, they both seem to be at the same level, meaning that it looks to be a commerical success.


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Old 05-09-2007, 09:57 PM   #34
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Jesus, everybody seems so worried about what awards claim or what others say. You want to taste a flavor, take a swig pay attention to your responses.

And to all this incesant bickering over what to do about cash return and produced results of the next series' installation. Perhaps another tiny thing LA is doing, is waiting for people to settle down, shut up and center because the way many things get discussed just drags on a whole other point of conflicting perspective with ongoing loops.

Perhaps the game should just be made as big "G" himself see's fit being since it's HIS work, whether or not it gets written by others. And I for one am very gracious for what he has presented to society, including execution. If it's not exacted into precise detail...Join up.

Step back and look into why you become attracted, then try some unofficial, or if desired, official persuit of adjoined or descrete contributions, in writing or code. And satisfy yourselves.

A thing that worries me is people go into these heated discussions and it seems like since someone else is taking care of conception, they don't have to. And that's a pretty s***ty way to look at it.

The most key things to worry about, will probably be like a mechanism addition cIV introduced. The almighty mod till you rot from self spoilage implementation.
That should shut just about everyone up and turn even flowing profits. That's all I got to say at this point.


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Old 05-10-2007, 12:19 AM   #35
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I'm not really interested in a novel that locks Revan and the Exile into specific genders/alignments or replaces what should be KotOR 3 the game. I'm fine with the abstract references used in the KotOR comics I've read thus far.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaelastraz
Does anyone know how many copies of Kotor and TSL were sold? Can't be that hard to find that out...
Actually it does take quite a bit of work to find out KotOR I and II sales figures and even these are rounded figures, not exact numbers.

KotOR Sales -
Quote:
The game has sold 3 million copies to date (Xbox and PC) and spawned a successful sequel which was launched in Holiday 2004
Source: BioWare

KotOR II: TSL Sales as of 2006-FEB-01
Quote:
Knights of the Old Republic 2 has sold nearly 1.5 million units
Source: IGN
I'm sure it's at least 1.5 million by now.

I think of games and music album sales along the same lines. If a music album sells 500,000 copies its pretty good and is considered a "gold" album. If a music album sells 1 million copies then it's considered a "platinum" album which is of course better then gold. IMO any game that sells more than 1 million copies is a "successful" game in terms of sales.
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Old 05-10-2007, 09:54 AM   #36
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I knew it wasn't easy to find or I would have posted it myself.

Thanks for the numbers, they really interested me a lot.
3 Million and 1.5 Million. That's very good imo. I'm surprised, actually.
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Old 05-10-2007, 02:11 PM   #37
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More than very good. That's stellar.

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Old 05-10-2007, 04:31 PM   #38
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Indeed. Thanks for the information, and now I know the truth. While Kotor II didn't sell quite as well as its predecessor ( 1.5 is a bit of a difference.) it still did wonderfully and certainly can be looked at for maybe spawning a novel.


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Old 05-10-2007, 04:41 PM   #39
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Makes you wonder why K3 is not being done already. With sales figures like that - especially when taking TSL's "condition" into account - it surely seems like making K3 is just an excuse to print money.


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Old 05-10-2007, 05:05 PM   #40
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Well, I think it can be attributed to the harsh reviews Kotor II got, even if it did that well. ( Us, the "hard core" Star Wars fans may not think it's that bad. Though many do...) I don't think they should listen to those, rather, look at the profits brought in by Kotor I and more importantly, Kotor II.


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