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Old 05-23-2007, 06:12 PM   #1
SilentScope001
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Great Idea: The "Intention" System

Nope, they are not going to put this in K3. And they won't put this in any CRPG. Bah. Still, if they desire to keep the game interactive, they might as well put this in.

The Intention System works like so, after you do a deed, you then think in your head what exactly was the purpose of that deed. That purpose will modify how much LS/DS points you get for doing it, but it will not affect anything else (so you can blabber about your true goals instead of lying to the Handmadien to please her).

Example A:
You see a man getting attacked by a bunch of thugs. You go and say: "Thugs, I'll pay the debt."

Thugs shrug, angry that they don't get to beat a man up, take the money, and leave. LS Point, FTW, right?

Wrong. Because then you go and modify how much LS Points you get. The Intention System screen comes on, and you choose:

1. "I can't stand to let some poor innocent man get hurt. At least this should give him some hope." (More LS Points!)
2. "Alright, let see if this man got any information about those thugs. If he had any run-in with the Exchange, I'll get info on them." (DS Points cancel out LS Points. Act is netural)
3. "The guy's in debt with me. I'll use that for my own advantage, turn him into a personal slave." (DS Points outweight LS Points)

Example B:
T3-M4 beeps and beeps about LSM Revan being lost in the Unknown Regions to fight the True Sith. You say: "Sure." You gain LS Points.

Intentions screen pops up:
1. "Revan has helped me out in the past, it is only fair I help him." (More LS Points!)
2. "Only until I find out what Revan is actually doing. I don't trust him. (DS Points cancel out LS Points. Act is Netrual)
3. "It's only to get that droid to tell me where Revan is. Once that happens, I'll screw Revan over for what he did to me." (DS Points outweigh LS Points)

Example C:
General Vaklu's secret police chief ask you to go and kill 3 Royal Guards to prepare for a coup. You say, "Alright", and you gain DS Points.

Intentions Screen Pops up:
1. "This should be fun, and allow me to gain trust with Vaklu. With some credits to boot, this job should be a cinch." (More DS Points!)
2. "Anything to weaken The Republic and let Onderon be free." (More DS Points!)
3. "Vaklu may be a liar, but at least he knows how to run a government. I'll choose him over the Queen any day." (DS Points cancel out LS Points. Act is Netural)

See? Developers say that they can't go and make complex choices that reflect whatever the player is thinking. Well, I disagree. They can. All they have to do is type out 2 or 3 choices after a very important act is done (so that this doesn't happen after every single action by the Player as to perseve the developer's sanity), and then use that as representing the Player's "Intentions". This only serve for Roleplaying, and for adjusting the LS/DS Points the player gets for each act.

And why it won't be implemented?
1) Developers don't read the board.
2) Too much time to make. Not enough point to justify.


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Old 05-23-2007, 07:02 PM   #2
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Yeah I thought about how to use intentions in-game too.

I just settled on a simpler idea that has party members question your responses during or shortly after important conversations (not too often because it would become annoying). This mini convo would reveal your intention and gain you influence points accordingly too.
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Old 05-23-2007, 07:19 PM   #3
Titanius Anglesmith
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If only the devs would be up to such a job. This would be a great way to change the way you gain influence with party members. Say if you were talking to Kreia, and she was giving you the lesson on using your party members as tools and not taking the time to make them friends, they could add a lie option that looks like -

"[Lie] Then I shall view you as disposable."

At least you would be able to gain the influence, but not get the DS points.


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Old 05-23-2007, 10:20 PM   #4
CaldaRaric
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This is a great system, but I could see how it could get annoying if after every scenario you have to choose why you did it. Maybe give you the option to turn it off or on. That would be cool if that's how they did it though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EAGERWEASEL
If only the devs would be up to such a job. This would be a great way to change the way you gain influence with party members. Say if you were talking to Kreia, and she was giving you the lesson on using your party members as tools and not taking the time to make them friends, they could add a lie option that looks like -

"[Lie] Then I shall view you as disposable."

At least you would be able to gain the influence, but not get the DS points.
I would love if they had this because I often feel like I have to change what I want to say for something that is totally opposite of who my character is.
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Old 05-24-2007, 06:34 AM   #5
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I think it's an interesting idea, yes. But it is far too insignificant and time-consuming to implement. They'd might as well create a new conservation reply choice with the [Thought] tag. Secondly, I don't see any real purpose for this feature other than fine-tuning you alignment or reaching one of the extremes real fast.


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Old 05-24-2007, 09:23 AM   #6
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I agree with Sabre. I'd love to have this implemented, but it is nearly technically impossible to do something like this.

But . . . then again, before KotOR1, they said that it was impossible for every person in a MRPG to have a voice . . . before KotOR2, I'm sure they said that something like the influence system was impossible.


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Old 05-24-2007, 09:53 AM   #7
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Too much player management too. I just want to play. I don't want to manage my lightside/darkside points every time I get a shift. If I want to adjust them, I can get KSE and do it that way.


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Old 05-24-2007, 12:28 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jae Onasi
Too much player management too. I just want to play. I don't want to manage my lightside/darkside points every time I get a shift. If I want to adjust them, I can get KSE and do it that way.
I agree Jae.


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Old 05-25-2007, 07:30 AM   #9
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I'm sure the developers had thought about that. It's just too reasonable and obvious to neglect.

While it's already a nice idea, it can be improved and made less tedious by replacing the "self-reflection" processes with conversations with party members. That's already been done in TSL to some extent, but this "some extent" is a pretty low extent. Most decisions that would give alignment points outright in the previous games can be discussed with companions to reveal the true intention of our protagonist and THEN grant alignment points, if any.

When you talked to Hussef about refugee woes, Kreia gave an excellent example of how her philosophy applies to earthly affairs. Thereupon you could reveal your intentions and gain/lose her respect and possibly a few alignment points. It's almost unfair if the developers don't create more similar opportunities for players to gain alignment points. Handmaiden example above is a good one. Why do I gain LS points for saying the "right" things to build her trust? For the love of God, my alignment meter is sweeping the floor, it's obvious that I'm trying to seduce her along the path of the dark side. I shouldn't get LS points for anything I say to her, because my intentions are evil and it's hardly surprising to see a Sith lying his way through.
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Old 05-25-2007, 05:19 PM   #10
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Intention is awesone for fanfic purposes, but it would be a pain in the butt to script. As I can tell you from the dialogue mod, dialogue alone is a headache. Loops, multiple options, scripting (including LS/DS).

But I do like the idea of being able to do LS actions and still be a bastard about it. My DSM Exile does help out the refugees on Nar Shardaa, for example. In game, it gets me LS points. In my fanfic? He tells Kreia "The Exchange is looking for a Jedi, let's give them one. These people mean nothing to me." He's also seeking to convince doubting, but powerful thralls (Bao-Dur, Handmaiden, Disciple) to surrender to him.

I also like the situation of doing DS actions for LS reasons. The best villians or tragic heroes are the ones who do these things, and eventually lose sight of the reasons.


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Old 05-25-2007, 10:56 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Allronix
Intention is awesone for fanfic purposes, but it would be a pain in the butt to script. As I can tell you from the dialogue mod, dialogue alone is a headache. Loops, multiple options, scripting (including LS/DS).

But I do like the idea of being able to do LS actions and still be a bastard about it. My DSM Exile does help out the refugees on Nar Shardaa, for example. In game, it gets me LS points. In my fanfic? He tells Kreia "The Exchange is looking for a Jedi, let's give them one. These people mean nothing to me." He's also seeking to convince doubting, but powerful thralls (Bao-Dur, Handmaiden, Disciple) to surrender to him.

I also like the situation of doing DS actions for LS reasons. The best villians or tragic heroes are the ones who do these things, and eventually lose sight of the reasons.
In that particular example, you can still get DS points by threatening the man : I did several LS options when doing darkide...to raise false hope in the poor um and to get in more fights, then scare the living daylights out of him (or extort him)


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Old 05-27-2007, 12:18 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jae Onasi
Too much player management too. I just want to play. I don't want to manage my lightside/darkside points every time I get a shift. If I want to adjust them, I can get KSE and do it that way.
Yeah. Agreed. A moral compass is nice. IF it could be implemented in a less hassling way I'd be all for it. Optionally that way?...MAAAAYBE--but that'd just take up RAM space in the system if you didn't use it... IF you did use it, it would just seem too much...hassle.

Nice idea. However, I play to get away from monotony and tediousness of everyday life.

I don't want it to remind me of having to look over my shoulder every 2 seconds at the 'behavior readings' of my argon gas laser because I wanted to cut cost buying and using an unregulated power supply. I'd rather just turn the damn thing on and not have to worry abut juggling it with everything else. The fun is playing with the holographic projection unit, the spectre-prism adjust rate, and looking at the awesome graphics on the Proj.-screen. Likewise, I'd rather just go straight to the dialogue and action in the game and reap the rewards that way.

If you could incorportae it and refine it (perhaps more intricate and detailed dialogue) to measure the "intent" you had, I'd be more for it. THAT would take a lot of time writing and producing while considering mutiple facets and contexts of every decision of the game.
And you can't be completely sure if the end product will or won't require
1) that you have found who you truly are in life--something Ozzy has never done BTW
2) that you'll need majors in psychology, psychyatry, criminal justice, and philosophy
3) that you are completely sure on the check of your moral compass versus what you estimate the game writers put in the game
to fully understand your decisions.

An example is Odyssey: Legend of Nemesis, island 2,: If you poison the evil priests, the island is set ablaze killing everyone but 2 people on that island and yourself. The priests leading the suicide cult are *EVIL* make no mistake. There is every good reason to kill them--you'd be remissed if you didn't. You can do it with the best of intentions, but how you do it is the thing that determines the outcome. While you can kill them by poisoning their wine supply, the lead priest catches on and takes vengeance on the island, and leaves you a note very exquisitely condemning you to hell, before comitting suicide. Island is set ablaze in most areas. Alternately, if you extinguish the "eternal" flame, the priests all commit suicide without incident (their disagreeing conuterparts and many workers are taken by Eternal's remanats) but a few workers survive and live with the other two on the island that is thankfully not set ablaze (nearly as bad).

Intent could be modified by taking into account the dynamics of decisions and incorporated more fully into events that occur. If that helps.
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Old 05-27-2007, 08:29 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marauder's Fury
While it's already a nice idea, it can be improved and made less tedious by replacing the "self-reflection" processes with conversations with party members.
Did I not already suggest that....?
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Old 05-28-2007, 02:25 PM   #14
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I see you indeed did. I've apparently missed that one. Well, be ready for such incidents on forums. Anyway, the credit's all yours, then
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Old 05-28-2007, 03:24 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentScope001
The Intention System works like so, after you do a deed, you then think in your head what exactly was the purpose of that deed. That purpose will modify how much LS/DS points you get for doing it
"The road to hell is paved with good intentions."

Does the intent behind an action, or the actual outcome of that action decide your Light/Dark alignment? If you do a deed with only the best intent in mind, but it leads to the death of millions of innocent people, would you get "Lightside points" for it?

(For example, would Revan be awarded Lightside points for shouldering the mantle of leader of the Sith and invading the Republic to remove the old corrupt leadership and strengthen it to withstand the impending "True Sith" invasion?)
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Old 05-28-2007, 04:45 PM   #16
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Kreia said something along those lines; sometimes you need to take the part of the Dark Lord to save the Galaxy...


Great minds discuss ideas.
Average minds discuss events.
Shallow minds discuss people.
Which are you?
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Old 05-28-2007, 05:29 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stoffe
"The road to hell is paved with good intentions."

Does the intent behind an action, or the actual outcome of that action decide your Light/Dark alignment? If you do a deed with only the best intent in mind, but it leads to the death of millions of innocent people, would you get "Lightside points" for it?

(For example, would Revan be awarded Lightside points for shouldering the mantle of leader of the Sith and invading the Republic to remove the old corrupt leadership and strengthen it to withstand the impending "True Sith" invasion?)
Agreed. If you make a choice like that, you should gain DS points, even if you do it to further a greater goal. That's what doing a little evil for the greater good is all about. And it's usually where good people go wrong. Like Revan and Anakin did.


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Old 05-29-2007, 03:04 AM   #18
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Quote:
Does the intent behind an action, or the actual outcome of that action decide your Light/Dark alignment? If you do a deed with only the best intent in mind, but it leads to the death of millions of innocent people, would you get "Lightside points" for it?
I said modify, not erase. Revan would probraly have his DS points decreased by a mere 1% for his good intentions.


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Old 05-31-2007, 06:43 PM   #19
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Well, We All know that Darth necajmai thinks he is Going Sith For the sake of the galaxy too, does it mean that his DS shift is minimal, or even a neutral shift?

What I really mean is, when you say intension of an act, there really is THREE separate things going on:
1) The action, the outcome, as seen by other npc. (Revan saves some poor Alien meatbag...)
2) Intension of the PC. (...so the meatbag will not be molested by some meatbagette ...err... kids...)
3) Intension of the Player (... as I need to get more LS points)

My point? your "intention system" will benefit (3) for the player to manage the LS/DS shift. But at the same time, you would add LOADS of micromangement for the playee (almost another set of choice for every answer that matters) Not to say that this would potentially destract the mood of the game for some players.

I would suggest instead a more detailed [lie] tag instead. So there might be 1-2 extra choices in a dialogue box, with a couple of them identical save the different tag.

This would be like.

Example C (borrowed cause I am lazy):
General Vaklu's secret police chief ask you to go and kill 3 Royal Guards to prepare for a coup.
You say,
1) "Alright" <= Regular DS/LS allocation, In this case DS
2) "Alright[Hmmm... Delicious Meatbags]" <= Extra DS pts, and a praise from HK
3) "Alright[Sure Beats Chaos Bought By The Queen]" <= Less DS pts.
4) "Nevar, I Will Not Betray The Queen... <blah blah blah>" <= Some LS pts.
5) "This Is Sparta !" <= LS pts and rewarded with a red cape, shiny helm, shield.
6) "Let Me Think About It" <= Quit, so you can get into dialogue again.

This way there is some management of LS/DS points, but not too much. The focus is still the dialogue. Add a "Thought Bubble" line of dialogue for the PC and all is good.

The example A is poorly made, cause many of the choices can be delivered by interaction with the victim thru another dialogue.
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Old 07-14-2007, 10:53 AM   #20
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This, honestly, sounds stupid.

Do you really want to have to think after everything you say and do in that game? It would just be annoying.


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Old 07-14-2007, 10:55 AM   #21
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Quote:
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I think it's an interesting idea, yes. But it is far too insignificant and time-consuming to implement. They'd might as well create a new conservation reply choice with the [Thought] tag. Secondly, I don't see any real purpose for this feature other than fine-tuning you alignment or reaching one of the extremes real fast.
I agree, and it would slow down the game.


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Old 07-15-2007, 02:09 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by SilentScope001
Nope, they are not going to put this in K3. And they won't put this in any CRPG. Bah. Still, if they desire to keep the game interactive, they might as well put this in.
{Snip}
This system would work very well in adding a variety of options on how to go about finishing the objective.


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Old 07-16-2007, 12:20 AM   #23
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Looks good but would get annoying as you would do this for every action that gave you ds/ls points.


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Old 08-04-2007, 12:51 AM   #24
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There's been times I wanted something like this as I would kill thugs and get DS points. Wha? You're evil for killing that terrorist on Manaan even. Quick, hide the game from Bush.

Seriously, it'd be nice but as ds said it could get annoying.
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