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Old 06-02-2007, 10:44 AM   #1
John Skywalker
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What kind of love interest theme do you guys want in K3?

Hi guys. On the speculation front i thought we could discuss the personality of the love interests. I dont really want a copy of bastila and the K2 romance was lacking, i hope that they will make a kind of rogue girl that gets a soft spot for you and make it so that like in K1 the love interest (if you initiate it) can save the day near or at the end of the game.

What do you guys think?
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Old 06-02-2007, 11:04 AM   #2
Diego Varen
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Well, the main male character for females and the main female character for males. Much like Carth and Bastila really, unless if it is like TSL where things are spiced up a little, where there is a love triangle.
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Old 06-02-2007, 11:15 AM   #3
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There should be a love interest from the main character but no one likes him/her back, so they have to decide whether to go evil b/c of it, or stay on the light side...that's what I wanna see lol



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Old 06-02-2007, 12:56 PM   #4
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Hopefully the romances will be like the Revan-Carth romance in K1. It was the best mature and well thought out romance of either game.


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Old 06-02-2007, 02:28 PM   #5
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Hmm... tragic... If there is some love... then... there should be loss...
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Old 06-02-2007, 02:32 PM   #6
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As long as she's hot and isn't some preachy, holier-than-thou brat, I'll be just fine.

As far as implementing the relationships into the main plot, I think there should be 2 love interests for both male and female, and each one could have a different effect on the plot.
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Old 06-02-2007, 02:40 PM   #7
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Let the Revan/Bastila or Revan/Carth relationship come to some sort of resolution, but I don't want another lovefest for the main character. Jedi aren't supposed to become romantically involved, but every single main character we see appears to break that rule with hasty abandon. I'd like to see at least one who doesn't, or the rule will lose and all credibility.


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Old 06-02-2007, 02:43 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by EagerWeasel
As long as she's hot and isn't some preachy, holier-than-thou brat, I'll be just fine.

As far as implementing the relationships into the main plot, I think there should be 2 love interests for both male and female, and each one could have a different effect on the plot.

Basically yeah... same thing, the only difference is that I like brats... makes them seem more like a pirate if their brats. :P
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Old 06-02-2007, 03:45 PM   #9
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I'd like a love interest who has a strong agenda of their own, but fall in love wiht the PC as the story develops..
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Old 06-02-2007, 05:50 PM   #10
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A romance that is a bit less straightforward would be nice. You should have to really work to get the love interest, well, interested: not just expect them to fall into your arms after a few dialogues. Sith Lords also seemed to be going in the right direction with alternative love interests instead of just one male and one female.

I do, however, find it slightly bizzare that homosexuality "doesn't exist" in the Star Wars mythos; and I wouldn't think that such an advanced society would be bigoted in such a respect.


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Old 06-02-2007, 10:17 PM   #11
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As I said before, you are a killer. Most people are plotting the day when they get K3 and start genociding True Sith. Why should killers fall in love? Doesn't sound fair to me.

And it's against the Jedi Code as well, for good reason. Maybe I'll be fine that if you fall in love, you HAVE to fall to the Dark Side, as per most accounts of love in Star Wars.


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Old 06-03-2007, 05:39 AM   #12
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Like Jolee Bindo did? Luke Skywalker?

The "old" Jedi have been wiped out. If there's a new Jedi order in K3 it will be founded by Mical, Brianna Visas etc... at least that's what Kreia said. And I have the impression that those are not too fond of the old Jedi code.

And even if it's against the code - you as the PC should be free to do it. It should be hard to accomplish, and you don't have to do it at all but IMO it should be possible.
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Old 06-03-2007, 05:43 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Vaelastraz
Like Jolee Bindo did? Luke Skywalker?

The "old" Jedi have been wiped out. If there's a new Jedi order in K3 it will be founded by Mical, Brianna Visas etc... at least that's what Kreia said. And I have the impression that those are not too fond of the old Jedi code.

And even if it's against the code - you as the PC should be free to do it. It should be hard to accomplish, and you don't have to do it at all but IMO it should be possible.
Yes, but we already know that the ban on relationships will survive since it's still in effect during the prequel trilogy. Luke changed it in his jedi order, yes, but it was banned before then.


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Old 06-03-2007, 11:42 AM   #14
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It's definitely not necessary, and it shouldn't be forced on people. It should be optional so the ones who want to have a relationship can, and the ones who don't, don't have to.
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Old 06-03-2007, 12:34 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Jediphile
Yes, but we already know that the ban on relationships will survive since it's still in effect during the prequel trilogy. Luke changed it in his jedi order, yes, but it was banned before then.
Then... why can't that rule have been changed and then changed back more than once? 4000 years is a long time in any galaxy. A lot could happen between a possible K3 and the next point in the timeline that we've seen that rule being observed. It's always going to be a divisive rule, and there will always be Jolee Bindos and Arren Kaes out there who will break it.


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Old 06-03-2007, 12:59 PM   #16
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Come on now... you can't have an adventure story without swashbuckling, mystery and a good helping of love.


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Old 06-03-2007, 01:42 PM   #17
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I must agree with i_shot_the_jedi.


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Old 06-03-2007, 02:15 PM   #18
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It's definitely not necessary, and it shouldn't be forced on people. It should be optional so the ones who want to have a relationship can, and the ones who don't, don't have to.
So your solution is that if you want relationships, then you should have that, and if I don't, then I can just choose not to play them. Well, that sucks. If I choose to actually [insert shock and horror here] follow the jedi code and not get involved, then I should receive something to compensate. It should be a real choice, not just a choice whether to play some or all of the content in the game.


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Old 06-03-2007, 02:44 PM   #19
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Well, even during PT era there are exceptions to the case. As for the kotor era, it is not too long after the whole Exar Kun thingy, where love is pretty much allowed. There are quite a few obvious pairs of lovers, and no signs of b& hammer on them.

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Originally Posted by Vaelastraz
Like Jolee Bindo did? Luke Skywalker?
The "old" Jedi have been wiped out. If there's a new Jedi order in K3 it will be founded by Mical, Brianna Visas etc... at least that's what Kreia said. And I have the impression that those are not too fond of the old Jedi code.
Well, Brianna WOuld definitely support some loving in action. Mira would support it also. Bao and Atton would warn about being cautious, but won't oppose it either, same goes for THE BINDO. Atris would oppose it, but probably would be in self-exile even if she survives. Bastila... all too obvious.

Mical, sorry but I hate this scumbag, so my view would not be fair and neutral. But even as I see it, while he might have soem complain with the spread of "personal relationships" within the order, he would probably do it on the "unsupportive" level rather than active opposition.

Visas, as much as I love her, her view of "love" is not like others, if anything she would be the one that would cause trouble, her love is too intense for a jedi.

Don't forget that there are probably some other jedis left. They probably are not masters, and definitely not council members, but they would bring their views to the new order when they come, and there is no reason to B& them. Granted, these jedis would have become more worldly after their hiding, exactly what the Jedi order needs.

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And even if it's against the code - you as the PC should be free to do it. It should be hard to accomplish, and you don't have to do it at all but IMO it should be possible.
Agree!! Actually I would love to see a tragic ending where your character can stay LS, but lost your love in the end "for the greater good" No, nothing about the cliche Love goes DS sort of bs. In fact, I would like to see some railroading the PC to the world of DS for a brief while, sort of like going into training by some Sith, and the Love Interest party brings him/her back.

And Yes, I would suggest foing for ONE love interest only this time. Yes, pulling a semi-date-sim system would be fun, think persona3. But seriously, this is Star Wars, love is a great theme, but putting too much relationship love triangle springer show on it would kinda shift the focus too much.

It would be kinda weird when the board is filled with thing like
"OMFG, how can I date bobby instead of T3?" or
"Plz he;lp!!!1111!! Jane is cheating on me, how do I win her hear back, and castrate that Mic dude?" or "How can I kill HK? There should be kissing in the game!" or
"How can I stop Jane and Jana from fighting each other? I mean they are twins, can't I have both?"
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Old 06-03-2007, 03:57 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by PoiuyWired
Well, even during PT era there are exceptions to the case. As for the kotor era, it is not too long after the whole Exar Kun thingy, where love is pretty much allowed. There are quite a few obvious pairs of lovers, and no signs of b& hammer on them.
On the contrary. Jolee would have been punished had he not simply decided to do whatever he wanted, Atris is so in denial of her feelings for the male exile due to the code that she falls for that reason, and Arren Kae is exiled for having a child (unless you accept there are... alternate reasons, which are speculative, even if I do support them myself). The reason that this is shortly after The Great Sith War is a reason for still supporting the ban on relationships, not for dismissing it.

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Agree!! Actually I would love to see a tragic ending where your character can stay LS, but lost your love in the end "for the greater good" No, nothing about the cliche Love goes DS sort of bs. In fact, I would like to see some railroading the PC to the world of DS for a brief while, sort of like going into training by some Sith, and the Love Interest party brings him/her back.
Old hat. We already saw LSM Revan do that for Bastila. Really, I'd like to see a gameplot that FINALLY and JUST FOR ONCE actually makes a point of why the jedi included such a rule in the jedi code instead of just setting it up as a stupid law that is broken in every single bloody game, book and movie... Frankly the way it has been so far is rather pathetic. I mean, you'd think the jedi had a reason for implementing the damn thing or what?!?


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Old 06-03-2007, 05:20 PM   #21
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And Yes, I would suggest foing for ONE love interest only this time. Yes, pulling a semi-date-sim system would be fun, think persona3. But seriously, this is Star Wars, love is a great theme, but putting too much relationship love triangle springer show on it would kinda shift the focus too much.

It would be kinda weird when the board is filled with thing like
"OMFG, how can I date bobby instead of T3?" or
"Plz he;lp!!!1111!! Jane is cheating on me, how do I win her hear back, and castrate that Mic dude?" or "How can I kill HK? There should be kissing in the game!" or
"How can I stop Jane and Jana from fighting each other? I mean they are twins, can't I have both?"
On the contrary, more than one love interest make things more interesting. But there is never only one person in the entire galaxy who can just railroad their way into someone's heart. I want to see some heartbreak and hard decisions here.

Nevertheless, I agree with some of your points. We do need a limit on love interests, and it should be dealt with subtly... I like love stories, but not those with excessive sentimentality, sickening baby language and characters who are at it like rabbits.

Quote:
Old hat. We already saw LSM Revan do that for Bastila. Really, I'd like to see a gameplot that FINALLY and JUST FOR ONCE actually makes a point of why the jedi included such a rule in the jedi code instead of just setting it up as a stupid law that is broken in every single bloody game, book and movie... Frankly the way it has been so far is rather pathetic. I mean, you'd think the jedi had a reason for implementing the damn thing or what?!?
The fact that the greatest heroes in Star Wars have broken the rule only goes to show that such a philosophy is seriously flawed from the beginning. Love is an enormously important part of life, and to reject it for some 'Greater Good' is to deny yourself the truth of love.

The true test of the 'Light Side' is whether you stay together and continue to be faithful and loving; and love only really happens to good people - it can never truly exist in the Dark Side. True, it can lead you down the path, but those who don't reign themselves in before they fall deserve what they get.

Jolee Bindo may have appeared as gray-aligned in Knights of the Old Republic, but he seems to me one of the most complete and entirely good Jedi in the entire mythos, who leads a life of kindness and humility yet isn't afraid to acknowledge his emotions. Which, I suppose, is a reflection of who the best people are in reality...


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Old 06-03-2007, 08:08 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by i_shot_the_jedi
Nevertheless, I agree with some of your points. We do need a limit on love interests, and it should be dealt with subtly... I like love stories, but not those with excessive sentimentality, sickening baby language [..]
More or less like Star Wars on movies.

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Jolee Bindo may have appeared as gray-aligned in Knights of the Old Republic, but he seems to me one of the most complete and entirely good Jedi in the entire mythos, who leads a life of kindness and humility yet isn't afraid to acknowledge his emotions. Which, I suppose, is a reflection of who the best people are in reality...
Agreed, he "resisted" to that dangerous choice of his, the love, and kept on the light. In fact, the only reason as to why he was gray aligned was that he cut relation with the Jedi Order.


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Old 06-04-2007, 06:40 AM   #23
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Yes, but we already know that the ban on relationships will survive since it's still in effect during the prequel trilogy. Luke changed it in his jedi order, yes, but it was banned before then.
Hm. To me it just doesn't make sense that way. The failure of the old Jedi code is that apparent in K2. Mical agrees with that. And do you really think that somehow Atton and Mira and the others would stick to the old flawed teachings, considering that they are heavily influenced by the Exile's teachings?

Starwars just has to have a love story. Love is something inherently human and love interests are a very good addition to RPGs imo.
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Old 06-04-2007, 11:52 AM   #24
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I don't want love. I want war and war only. The game is called Star Wars, not Star Love.
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Old 06-04-2007, 03:06 PM   #25
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I don't want love. I want war and war only. The game is called Star Wars, not Star Love.
I think it's a good idea in a game like KOTOR to strike the balance between love, peace & prosperity and anger, hate, war - too repetitive otherwise in my opinion.
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Old 06-04-2007, 03:19 PM   #26
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Agreed, he "resisted" to that dangerous choice of his, the love, and kept on the light. In fact, the only reason as to why he was gray aligned was that he cut relation with the Jedi Order.
...Actually, he DID not resist. He spared his lover, and becuase he spared his lover, Jolee indirectly killed many Jedi. Jolee should have mercy-killed his lover, and saved those Jedi that Jolee has killed. Jolee knew that, this is why he exiled himself.

Had Jolee not loved his wife, Jolee would have murdered his wife in the same way as Revan would murder a random Sith, thereby helping out the galaxy as a whole.
====
Love will be in K3 for the simple reason that people want it and that it was in K1 and K2. The game developer Chris Avollne basically said love is an "ego-trip" and that it supposed to stink, so seeing him in charge of K3 could have him end up condemning love and going with Jediphile. I doubt it.

Frankly, if Jediphile wants some beniefts to denying love...it would be far better if people mod it in then, because I doubt the developers would ever do it, it would be far, FAR too risky.


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Old 06-04-2007, 04:26 PM   #27
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Hm. To me it just doesn't make sense that way. The failure of the old Jedi code is that apparent in K2. Mical agrees with that. And do you really think that somehow Atton and Mira and the others would stick to the old flawed teachings, considering that they are heavily influenced by the Exile's teachings?
The jedi code, of which the ban on love is one rule, is flawed, yes. That does not mean anything the old order ever said is wrong by definition. The masters flaw was that they applied rules in absolutes, not that they had rules in the first place. They also refused to acknowledge their own shortcomings and thereby believed themselves above making mistakes. Which is always a mistake in itself. At no point is the rule that love is banned singled out as the cause of the old teachings. Indeed, while Jolee refuses to follow that rule, he is himself a primary example of why it's a valid point.

And as for the exile's teachings, where does it say that the exile would embrace relationships? The exile never goes all the way in any of the potential relationships, but rather seems to end up following Kreia's "advice" on the matter:

Kreia: "And, like you, he knew he must leave all loves behind as well, no matter how deeply one cares for them. Because such attachments are not the way of the Jedi, and they would only bring doom to them both in the dark places where he now walks."

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Starwars just has to have a love story. Love is something inherently human and love interests are a very good addition to RPGs imo.
Given that the rule is there that makes no sense. It's a hard price of course, but just for once I'd like to see a Star Wars story where they actually take the rule seriously instead of just establishing that it's there and then hasten to trample all over it as quickly and heavily as they can - it's insulting!


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Old 06-04-2007, 05:30 PM   #28
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i agree with you jediphile, but i also disagree. i agree with you that a JEDI should not be allowed to have a love interest. but a FORCE USER can. it was fine for the exile to have a lover because the exile was not a jedi. revan on the other hand broke the rule. i would like to have a love interest in k3 (not mandatory though) but i also dont want to be a jedi. i just want to be an unaffiliated force user who chooses to either 1. help the galaxy or 2. harm the galaxy.

this way the person would have no qualms with breaking the jedi code, because this code would not apply to him.
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Old 06-05-2007, 03:03 AM   #29
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The rule has been fairly conclusively shown to be more trouble than it's worth. In fact, it's one of my main reasons for my 'belief' that the Light Side isn't all that Light and the Dark Side isn't so dark. The Jedi basically teach you that a soulless automaton is the ideal. If only they could make Force-sensitive Droids.
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Old 06-05-2007, 08:26 AM   #30
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The rule has been fairly conclusively shown to be more trouble than it's worth. In fact, it's one of my main reasons for my 'belief' that the Light Side isn't all that Light and the Dark Side isn't so dark. The Jedi basically teach you that a soulless automaton is the ideal. If only they could make Force-sensitive Droids.
No, the jedi merely embrace the idea that extreme emotions come with inherent risks. Rejecting a relationship does not make someone soulless. It IS a big price to pay, of course, but what bothers me is that people are so quick to dismiss the wisdom in it. Love is a CHOICE, not a duty. This may be difficult to grasp in our society, where the search for a mate to procreate with is strongly enforced by the norms - hence, "he can't find a girlfriend" or "she can't find a man", which are both very demeaning comments.

So I find lots of people rejecting the idea without ever considering it because "it's not how things are done". Yet at the same time, we reject the idea that we should allow our emotions to control us. We can't give in to hatred, jealousy, anger, lust or whatever other emotions you could mention. But for love it's suddenly supposed to be different, because society has rules that must be obeyed. So the question becomes, should the jedi follow true principles that make sense, or should they just mirror the ideals of our own society no matter what they might be? Because if jedi are to reject their emotions or risk becoming slaves to them, then love is also something to be wary off, I fear. Although the story is actually told badly and in an uncompelling manner IMHO, you need look no further than to Anakin to see that.

Droids? Nonsense. Yoda and Obi-Wan certainly aren't droids. They have lots of emotions. But they are wary of them and keep them in check. Anakin falls exactly because he will not control his love and so becomes its slave instead of its master. Whose choice was better?


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Old 06-05-2007, 06:30 PM   #31
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Hardly. The Jedi ideal is to have no emotions. Hate, Anger, Love, Lust, hell, even totally benign ones like joy are frowned upon. A rather foolish idea, keeping all that bottled up can make big problems later. Amusing that the Jedi's main purpose was as negotiators and diplomats when there is absolutely no way for a Non-Jedi to relate to an Ideal Jedi.
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Old 06-05-2007, 06:50 PM   #32
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No, no, no. The jedi don't reject emotions. I have no idea where this idea comes from. The jedi simply believe that you can never give in to your emotions. The idea that they somehow suppress them is utterly idiotic.

Anakin: "Attachment is forbidden. Possession is forbidden. Compassion, which I would define as unconditional love, is central to a jedi's life. So you might say that we are encouraged to love."

To simply deny all emotions is the certain way to trouble - that's what we see in Atris if the exile is male. What Anakin tells us is that the jedi are very much aware of that.


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Old 06-05-2007, 07:48 PM   #33
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Jediphile, what about the whole "There is no emotion, there is peace." Thing?
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Old 06-05-2007, 09:11 PM   #34
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You know for all this talk about how only the Jedi frown upon relationships and attachments I don't really see why the Sith would necessarily support those things either.

Considering how the Sith are all about hating weakness and supporting strength and self reliance I could easily them making a no attachment rule. After all by having a attachment your admitting your too weak to be self reliant. And then I imagine love could interfere with what a Sith does.
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Old 06-05-2007, 11:05 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jediphile
Anakin: "Attachment is forbidden. Possession is forbidden. Compassion, which I would define as unconditional love, is central to a jedi's life. So you might say that we are encouraged to love."

Sith definitely doe not forbid possession... And Sith does not forbid love either. Its a good recreation, and a nice form of manupilation, as having allies is always a good thing, even if its just temporary.. And Love, like any other strong emotion, give you power. Just remember that if the time comes your so-called love will not get in the way of you sendinga serrated knife through her guts.

Attachment are probably thawn upon by Sith though, everything is a pawn, there is no need to be attached.
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Old 06-05-2007, 11:48 PM   #36
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Okay, for male, you need a hot lass in her early-mid twenties, first and foremost.

She needs to be a Scoundrel of some kind. Maybe a gray allignment? You'll be able to romance her, or manipulate her. There should be some choice like that.


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Old 06-06-2007, 01:30 AM   #37
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Jediphile, what about the whole "There is no emotion, there is peace." Thing?
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Jedi_code#Meaning


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Old 06-06-2007, 02:36 AM   #38
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So "Set aside your emotions". When your emotions are set aside, you might as well not have them at all.

Incidentally, I discovered that there are in fact, Droid Jedi Knights.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Iron_Knights

It's like Extra-Strength Emotionless.
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Old 06-06-2007, 02:49 AM   #39
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So "Set aside your emotions". When your emotions are set aside, you might as well not have them at all.
No. "Set aside your emotions" simply means to be able to confront your emotions and have control of them. It means to not allow your emotions to dominate you.

Jedi clearly have and show emotions - Obi Wan, Yoda, and Luke all consistently show their emotions, and there are several others who do this as well.
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Old 06-06-2007, 07:20 AM   #40
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Yoda shows emotions? Dang, you must be a heck of a face reader. Besides, no one ever said that Yoda was a perfect Jedi.
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