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Old 06-07-2007, 12:20 AM   #1
Zerimar Nyliram
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Things you'd like to see in KOTOR 3, plot-wise.

Okay, this thread is a little different in that, rather than it it being about the main plot of KOTOR 3, it's about little things you'd like to encounter here and there throughout the story. I'll go first to demonstrate what I mean:



If the ruins of Taris are in the game, I'd like to see the legendary Promised Land, and if the outcasts from the Undercity ever made it there. It can be an underground city.

If there is a way of specifying the gender and alignment of Revan and the Exile, I'd like to see what became of Carth on Lehon when Revan turned to the dark side and betrayed his party. I think it'd be kind of cool to run into Carth as a crazed hermit with a beard who mumbles tales of his misfortunes before attacking your party. (Perhaps he has even dabbled with the Force and, being mad with rage, is now a crazed dark-sider.) This, of course, would be a direct parallel to Carth's successful career as a Republic admiral, as is the canonical continuation of the dark side story.

I'd like to see what became of some of your past party members, particularly Mission, Juhani, Jolee, Atton, Brianna, Mical, Mira and Visas. This, of course, would depend upon the alignments of Revan and the Exile as specified by you, since some of those people may be dead if the main characters were dark-siders.

The characters who are deliberate polar opposites should interact with one another: Carth and Atton, Zalbaar and Hanharr, Bastila and Visas, etc.

I definitely want Bastila in my party. Whether she joins you as a Jedi or a Sith would depend upon how you characterized Revan and his alignments earlier in the game.



Get it now? I'd like to hear some other ideas.


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Old 06-07-2007, 02:11 AM   #2
SilentScope001
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What I like to see:

-The Formation of a New Sith Order For DS Exiles.

-The True Sith actually being good guys and end up being saved by the Third Character. It would be a great plot-twist and put kibbosh to the secret desire to genocide the True Sith.

-Revan and Exile not playing that major a role in K3.


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Originally Posted by The Onion
"The Cambodian government has established many exciting-sounding 're-education camps' where both intellectuals and everyday citizens can be sent at any time," Day said. Well, we at Barnes & Noble have always supported re-education in America, and we intend to extend this policy to our new customers." For every hardcover book sold, Barnes & Noble will donate a dollar to the Cambodian government to help re-educate local children.
Full Article Here
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Old 06-07-2007, 02:58 AM   #3
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-Bastila in your party. If you are male and Revan was set to female, you can have a romance with her.

-A new PC.

-[Like you said, diret opposites making contact with each other]

-Being able to slaughter the True Sith.


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Old 06-07-2007, 08:55 AM   #4
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Revan & Exile playing major roles; I'm already attached to them so I don't want to play as someone else.

Real Sith. Like the Sith species. On Ziost.

The New Jedi Order led by Visas.

Past NPcs, except Carth and the Wookies.

Nihilus coming back.

A dark side fit for a Sith Lord.
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Old 06-07-2007, 11:26 AM   #5
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- Revan and the Exile play large parts, but absolutely not as your main character and not in your party. Ever.

- Bastila, HK, and T3 return to the party.

- The True Sith look like the Sith species, and be on Ziost.

- A lot more sidequests.

- Most, if not all, of the characters that were party members in KotOR and TSL will come back, and play at least some part in the main plot or a sidequest or two.

- Have the endgame be a huge battle between the forces of good (Republic (led by Carth, or some other admiral if Revan was dark side; Jedi, led by you you, Revan, and the Exile [they would be part of the battle no matter what their alignment, simply because they realize the True Sith must be stopped]; and Mandalorian, led by Canderous) united against the forces of evil (the True Sith).
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Old 06-07-2007, 02:28 PM   #6
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> I want to see old friends and party members - Yes, not all of them, perhaps. And not everyone needs to be part of your group. Maybe, like on Final Fantasy XII, some old friends might join your group under the condition of "guest". That is, temporally, just during your stay on a planet or when you're doing a side-quest.

> The Hawk - Yes, SHE must be back! She and KotOR itself are linked. And, yeah, I want to have more options on it, like piloting it.

> Minigames - I'm not one that was particularly fond of Pazaak. So, I want some new minigames. And the Swoop racing must change. Perhaps the bike upgrades originally intended to be on the first KotOR.

> No clear sight of the True Sith - Are they really evil? They don't have too, like Silent Scope said. I want something that can really grasp you into the Dark Side without you even don't really noticing it.

> An ending battle - On many levels as the Endor Skirmish, crushing as Hoth Battle and significantly as Coruscant Siege.


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Old 06-07-2007, 03:05 PM   #7
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I'd like to see a "bigger" game, not only length-wise, but in number of party members. I really liked the Tomb sequence in TSL when you got to command the vision-Republic Soldiers against the vision-Mandalorians; hopefully more of that is in store for K3, perhaps using unnamed Republic/Mandalorian/Droid/etc soldiers in somewhat-sizable numbers to fight a guerrilla campaign against the True Sith across Republic Space, perhaps also leading out into the unknown regions.

For some reason, I'd also like to have a Muun or Nemoidian as a party member, preferably as a Jedi (Although Darth Plagueis, Palpatine's Master, is now canonically a Muun).

I'd most definitely like to see what became of the old party members, even if they have to nail down canon paths in K1 and TSL to do it.

A larger ship would also be awesome, to carry more people(like a Hammerhead Cruiser), in addition to the Ebon Hawk, which would definitely need to be tricked out some more after TSL's ending.





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Old 06-07-2007, 07:29 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SASdelta762
I'd like to see a "bigger" game, not only length-wise, but in number of party members. I really liked the Tomb sequence in TSL when you got to command the vision-Republic Soldiers against the vision-Mandalorians; hopefully more of that is in store for K3, perhaps using unnamed Republic/Mandalorian/Droid/etc soldiers in somewhat-sizable numbers to fight a guerrilla campaign against the True Sith across Republic Space, perhaps also leading out into the unknown regions.

I use to say that Kotor 2 wasted a big opportunity on that matter. The Exile was a war veteran, and constantly was remembering the wars through conversations with NPCs and through his actions. Why not, during those times, make a playable flashback, the screen would go black and white and the player would be able to play as the Exile during the specified battle.


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Old 06-07-2007, 07:54 PM   #9
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I use to say that Kotor 2 wasted a big opportunity on that matter. The Exile was a war veteran, and constantly was remembering the wars through conversations with NPCs and through his actions. Why not, during those times, make a playable flashback, the screen would go black and white and the player would be able to play as the Exile during the specified battle.
...But didn't we do that in the Tomb? Not only that, but we learnt what Exile did during his campagin: Was he a person who was willing to risk his life to save his troops, or will he let his troops charge to their deaths to save one Jedi (namely him)?


Quote:
Originally Posted by The Onion
"The Cambodian government has established many exciting-sounding 're-education camps' where both intellectuals and everyday citizens can be sent at any time," Day said. Well, we at Barnes & Noble have always supported re-education in America, and we intend to extend this policy to our new customers." For every hardcover book sold, Barnes & Noble will donate a dollar to the Cambodian government to help re-educate local children.
Full Article Here
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Old 06-07-2007, 08:00 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentScope001
...But didn't we do that in the Tomb? Not only that, but we learnt what Exile did during his campagin: Was he a person who was willing to risk his life to save his troops, or will he let his troops charge to their deaths to save one Jedi (namely him)?

Only that time. But how many times during the saga does the Exile remember of the war? Many times. Couldn't each of them take the player into those flashbacks?


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Old 06-08-2007, 04:01 AM   #11
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I'd like to see the PC do his/her Jedi Trials, maybe as the intro/Tutorial, starting the game as a young Knight with a lightsaber that you create while customizing your appearance.
I don't really want a 4 hour "Where am I, Who am I" start.
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Old 06-08-2007, 08:51 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ctrl_Alt_Del
I use to say that Kotor 2 wasted a big opportunity on that matter. The Exile was a war veteran, and constantly was remembering the wars through conversations with NPCs and through his actions. Why not, during those times, make a playable flashback, the screen would go black and white and the player would be able to play as the Exile during the specified battle.
LucasArts ordered Obsidian not to have any flashback sequences or mysterious dreams. I suppose the tomb was cool enough for them to allow it in .
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Old 06-08-2007, 09:28 AM   #13
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I'd like to see the PC in progress of training to be a Jedi Knight throughout the game.
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Old 06-08-2007, 10:09 AM   #14
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I would like to see Bao-Dur in the game. There is actually a chance that he will be there. Kreia said she could not see his future. And obsidian has said that they are asking Lucasarts if they can make the third game. Maybe this whole "Kreia could not see into his future"-thing is because Obsidian didn't want to spoil anything for the third game.


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Old 06-08-2007, 11:42 AM   #15
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His voice and the way he spoke annoyed me.


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Old 06-08-2007, 04:23 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adamqd
I'd like to see the PC do his/her Jedi Trials, maybe as the intro/Tutorial, starting the game as a young Knight with a lightsaber that you create while customizing your appearance.
I don't really want a 4 hour "Where am I, Who am I" start.
Excellent Idea.


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Old 06-08-2007, 05:28 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ctrl_Alt_Del
Why not, during those times, make a playable flashback, the screen would go black and white and the player would be able to play as the Exile during the specified battle.
one word: tedious. imagine. you are the exile, and you're going about during the game, devoloping the story and chars, and then you decide to have a little chat with Bao dur. you talk a bit about the wa-FLASHBACK!!! you are in a random battle and for 7 minutes you fight with next to no story development. than, you're back. wait, uh, what was i doing again? oh, yeah, talking to bao dur. wait, what were we talking about?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentScope001
-The True Sith actually being good guys and end up being saved by the Third Character. It would be a great plot-twist and put kibbosh to the secret desire to genocide the True Sith.
wow, that would be a CRAZY plot twist!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentScope001
-Revan and Exile not playing that major a role in K3.
yes, i agree.

i suppose i also want to see some of the older characters. there are characters like mission vao which we haven't seen for like over 5 years by the time of KOTOR 3. when/if they bring old chars back, i don't want them to be the exact same as before, develop them a bit! make something happen to them over those 5 years that they were gone!
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Old 06-09-2007, 12:05 AM   #18
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People actually doing something, instead of standing there like idiots. Actually it's a common problem among this kinda games. It's so bad that even people sitting on chairs with pazaak cards at hand were enough to make me feel grateful.

And, for crying out loud, why standing? I don't stand. I tend to find some place to park it when I'm not busy. Are you standing at the moment? I doubt it.
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Old 06-09-2007, 01:14 PM   #19
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Hmm. It seems that the purpose of this thread was misunderstood. What I meant was things similar to the ideas that I posted: like, something that happens in the story, not mechanics, etc.

But what ever. Nice ideas, though.


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Old 06-09-2007, 03:50 PM   #20
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> No clear sight of the True Sith - Are they really evil? They don't have too, like Silent Scope said. I want something that can really grasp you into the Dark Side without you even don't really noticing it.
I think the way to have that subtle a Dark Side is to basically have it be good. Two examples of Subtle Dark Side include Kreia and Revan. Revan fell to the Dark Side, Kreia merely flirts with it. And their teachings are Sith-like in nature. But people (and by people, I mean the OOC elements here) trust Revan and Kreia, thinking of them as good guys, and other people see Kreia and Revan as bastards who have to be killed in order to save the galaxy. If an ordinary LS person would say, "You know what? So-and-So's right, let go and join!" then that LS person subtly fell to the Dark Side.

That is subtle Dark Side. And to have that in, you need to have an enemy you can sympathize with, and in fact, would LOVE to follow, due to the "seemingly LS" goals it held. The True Sith would not be blantlay evil as Malak, instead, they would need to be like Kreia and Revan. In fact, even the Sith Academcy on K1 was semi-sympathiziable, if you were a Social Darwnisit. But, Kreia and Revan (mostly Revan) are very sympathizable in TSL. Copy that for the True Sith, and then abandon the "subtle Dark Side" motif forever. 3 times maximum before we get bored at the formuala and we'll need to find a new way to entertain.


Quote:
Originally Posted by The Onion
"The Cambodian government has established many exciting-sounding 're-education camps' where both intellectuals and everyday citizens can be sent at any time," Day said. Well, we at Barnes & Noble have always supported re-education in America, and we intend to extend this policy to our new customers." For every hardcover book sold, Barnes & Noble will donate a dollar to the Cambodian government to help re-educate local children.
Full Article Here
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Old 06-09-2007, 04:39 PM   #21
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Oops. I seem to have rushed a bit. Okay, here's what I want "plotwise": Yes, I'd like to see less scenarios where a dark-sided PC is acting like an imbecile and more where he uses his brains. Being a bully is tiresome at best. Most Sith lords have risen to throne through ploys and schemes, not by killing their way through.
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Old 06-09-2007, 06:50 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by SilentScope001
I think the way to have that subtle a Dark Side is to basically have it be good. Two examples of Subtle Dark Side include Kreia and Revan. Revan fell to the Dark Side, Kreia merely flirts with it. And their teachings are Sith-like in nature. But people (and by people, I mean the OOC elements here) trust Revan and Kreia, thinking of them as good guys, and other people see Kreia and Revan as bastards who have to be killed in order to save the galaxy. If an ordinary LS person would say, "You know what? So-and-So's right, let go and join!" then that LS person subtly fell to the Dark Side.
I agree on the 'subtlety' factor, but I'd rather have True Sith of the kind you love to hate: evil to the core. Sith that don't philosophise or try to justify their actions and pretend that they are some kind of 'natural force' - like Uthar Wynn; instead the kind that wouldn't hesitate to commit the worst atrocities imaginable.

Something that will really get Revan's panties in a twist.


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Old 06-09-2007, 06:59 PM   #23
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- First of all, NOT defining Revan's and the Exile's alignment or gender. Canonical all the way so we have a true solid story unlike wishy washy TSL. With that solid base you can then do whatever the hell you want, like in the previous games.

- RP is the best ever. Combat is regular, though the credit resides in perfectly copying what D&D combat would be like in the real world. But, do we need that? It's a game. Keep D20 for everything but combat of course, give me a feeling of true battle. Jade Empire style.

- Like some have said, Ziost would rock. Though I'm not sure if the Sith as species still existed.

- Coruscant!

- Coruscant Granite Slugs!

- In the happy light side canonical ending, Bastila reunites with Revan after he's back from the unknown regions and they marry.
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Old 06-09-2007, 07:56 PM   #24
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Quote:
I agree on the 'subtlety' factor, but I'd rather have True Sith of the kind you love to hate: evil to the core. Sith that don't philosophise or try to justify their actions and pretend that they are some kind of 'natural force' - like Uthar Wynn; instead the kind that wouldn't hesitate to commit the worst atrocities imaginable.
True, but the last time that happened, we got Malak, a Sith Lord who many people...uh...hate for being so lame. If they pull it off, prehaps, but I'll stick with the subtle approach, because if the True Sith are overtly evil, then you got a reason to genocide them...which seems very, very boring to me. Many people want K3 just so that they can see the True Sith get genocided and feel heroic, but I've seen enough moral ambguity in TSL to be disappointed if such a heroic feeling of good and evil being made so...clear.

Still, if they do go down the Evil route, a carbon copy of the Knights Templar leader, Saman, in Deus Ex 2 might suffice. *Spoiler for Deus Ex 2 follows*

spoiler:
At the surface a religious fanatic and demogague who calls for the destruction of all modified humans/cyborgs, and at the bottom, a cold Machvellian politican who, while condemning the Illumanti, ends up following their methods. Intelligent about historical events, and willing to do whatever it takes.

He blows up Chicago in an attempt to stop one factory, manage to inflirate and steal away most of the Order Church, and even recruited one cyborgs (and attempted to recruit another) in his plan for world domination/liberation from the Illumanti, showing that he really has no care about what his ideology really says, only that he wants everyone to believe it.


Quote:
- First of all, NOT defining Revan's and the Exile's alignment or gender. Canonical all the way so we have a true solid story unlike wishy washy TSL. With that solid base you can then do whatever the hell you want, like in the previous games.
Oh, and I forgot.

--DEFINING Exile and Revan's alignment. Otherwise, it feels as though Exile and Revan is out of my control, and I have no reason to play. I played TSL because you get to define Revan's alignment. And Revan and Exile are my characters.

Besides, the Dark Side is supposed to be destructive, evil and seductive. Hard to believe if all Player Characters stay on the Light Side. If Exile and Revan is set to the DS, we would actually see the results of the Dark Side rampage.


Quote:
Originally Posted by The Onion
"The Cambodian government has established many exciting-sounding 're-education camps' where both intellectuals and everyday citizens can be sent at any time," Day said. Well, we at Barnes & Noble have always supported re-education in America, and we intend to extend this policy to our new customers." For every hardcover book sold, Barnes & Noble will donate a dollar to the Cambodian government to help re-educate local children.
Full Article Here
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Old 06-09-2007, 08:16 PM   #25
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I think having the True Sith turn out to be good guys is a great idea, SilentScope001, and I agree with everything you have said. However, in KOTOR 2, Kreia says, "You think that these machines bread for war are the Sith? No, the Sith are an idea," which suggests being of like-mind with the dark siders of old. And in the same sentence she adds, "And the true Sith Empire rules elsewhere," suggesting that the True Sith are of the same "idea" as the dark siders you've been fighting, despite being a completely different group. Thus, it's very unlikely that they would be on the good side.

Great idea, though, don't get me wrong; but unlikely given how Kreia characterizes them.


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Old 06-09-2007, 08:30 PM   #26
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Great idea, though, don't get me wrong; but unlikely given how Kreia characterizes them.
Of course. Why else would it be a plot twist/mad idea? Nobody ever thought Revan (pre-wipe) was the 'good guy' in K1 after all.

Prehaps the developers of K3 could easily state (or imply) that the Sith teachings themselves [which leads to you wanting to grow as strong as uberly possible] are not wrong, but that how one interprets them leads them down the evil path. Having the appercinate and the master duel each other to the death to see who is stronger in the Force is actually a somewhat good idea, as a way of judging strength in the Force.

Still, I can be okay with the True Sith being Overtly Evil, after all, TSL was reamed for its plot, and classic Star Wars is classic for a reason. There better be some other good plot twist in its place though.


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"The Cambodian government has established many exciting-sounding 're-education camps' where both intellectuals and everyday citizens can be sent at any time," Day said. Well, we at Barnes & Noble have always supported re-education in America, and we intend to extend this policy to our new customers." For every hardcover book sold, Barnes & Noble will donate a dollar to the Cambodian government to help re-educate local children.
Full Article Here
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Old 06-10-2007, 12:04 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by SilentScope001
-DEFINING Exile and Revan's alignment. Otherwise, it feels as though Exile and Revan is out of my control, and I have no reason to play. I played TSL because you get to define Revan's alignment. And Revan and Exile are my characters.
OK, make the devs do ten different games, all of the same quality level, with different planets, people and everything else. Or again, back to TSL: Revan and the Exile, being some of the most important and most powerful Force users ever have no impact at all in anything and being both LS or DS, simply decide to go away and do nothing so you can decide their fates!

Of course Revan and the Exile are out of your control. The one under your control is the new PC, dammit. If everything in Star Wars where you as a player have a choice doesn't have a canonical decision, it would be immensely stupid and would require for impossible quantities of work. Take "The Force Unleashed" for example. In the game, you will have all the endings you can wish for. But the book and comics will have ONE canonical story. If there's going to be a TFU2, devs would have to assume the novel's ending.
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Old 06-10-2007, 12:12 AM   #28
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OK, make the devs do ten different games, all of the same quality level, with different planets, people and everything else. Or again, back to TSL: Revan and the Exile, being some of the most important and most powerful Force users ever have no impact at all in anything and being both LS or DS, simply decide to go away and do nothing so you can decide their fates!

Of course Revan and the Exile are out of your control. The one under your control is the new PC, dammit. If everything in Star Wars where you as a player have a choice doesn't have a canonical decision, it would be immensely stupid and would require for impossible quantities of work. Take "The Force Unleashed" for example. In the game, you will have all the endings you can wish for. But the book and comics will have ONE canonical story. If there's going to be a TFU2, devs would have to assume the novel's ending.
Note that in TSL, you can find out what happen if Revan fell to the Dark Side. The story was enhanced when Revan fell to the DS, and actually seemed better than the "canon" storyline. All you do is throw switches, and you decide the begining of the third game, but never the ending.

For example, no matter what happens, Revan goes off to fight the True Sith. It will be the same in the canon ending, and in the non-canon ending as well. So what? If we had it be LSM, then Revan still would have went to fight off True Sith, but there would be no content, and people like me would be angry, since it shows that the game designers don't care for us. But, the DSM begining is quite similar to the LSM Revan's begining, the only difference is the fact that you get access to one Holocron in the Sith Acadmey.

If Exile is DS, then what? The Jedi Order's alignment is likely to change to Grey or Dark. That's it. They still will do everything else a regural canonical Jedi Order would do. All they do is change a few lines, and provide the illusion of control, when there is none. And you want to strip away a key feature that is easy to make and provide you immersiveness in a game?

They pulled it off in TSL, and they did so succesfully. I bought TSL because of this feature, and if it is taken out, then many people won't play K3. Especially since some people claim that DSM Exile is actually the best way to play TSL...fitting in its mood.

LSM Revan and LSF Exile only exist for novels and comic books. But you won't intervene with my preception of Revan and Exile, both DSM.

Lastly: I heard they are actually planning to have all endings in TFU be declared canon actually. Now, that's stupid. But even this showcases that LucasArts want to provide the player an illusion of control, as it makes them want to play the game more.


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"The Cambodian government has established many exciting-sounding 're-education camps' where both intellectuals and everyday citizens can be sent at any time," Day said. Well, we at Barnes & Noble have always supported re-education in America, and we intend to extend this policy to our new customers." For every hardcover book sold, Barnes & Noble will donate a dollar to the Cambodian government to help re-educate local children.
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Old 06-10-2007, 10:02 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by SilentScope001
They pulled it off in TSL, and they did so succesfully. I bought TSL because of this feature, and if it is taken out, then many people won't play K3. Especially since some people claim that DSM Exile is actually the best way to play TSL...fitting in its mood.

Lastly: I heard they are actually planning to have all endings in TFU be declared canon actually. Now, that's stupid. But even this showcases that LucasArts want to provide the player an illusion of control, as it makes them want to play the game more.
Well, I guess to you it makes a big difference a bit of dialog that had no impact in TSL whatsoever but just made the story crappy and without strength. You said that Revan's alignment did not make a big difference in the story. That's what I'm saying. It should have made a huge impact into KOTOR II's plot. Going to the unknowns regions is a poor excuse of the devs to, as you said, give you a minimal illusion of "control" that does not exist.

And that TFU rumor is completely false, in official statements they have said that the only canon story is the one in the novel and comic books, which is obviously one ending. It has nothing to do with an "illusion of control". The control you have, that is not an illusion is the one over your PC. Control over Revan and the Exile is just that, an illusion, a small, unnecessary, and, if possible to make right, would require at least four different games into one. And if it affects only the beginning as you say, what is the damn point? The point of KOTOR III will be that the new PC decides the fate of the galaxy, he is the one that you choose the alignment. Revan and the Exile already decided for the LS canonically. A gray Jedi Order? Kind of like Luke's New Order? In the Old Republic, that won't happen for a fact. A DS Order? What are you smoking now? Would they do the same as LS Jedi? Please.
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Old 06-10-2007, 11:27 AM   #30
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Okay, to address something not exactly on-topic with the current discussion: there is a huge problem with Revan and the Exile making appearances in the next game: the fact that they were fully customizable. Not only would you need to define their genders and alignments, but you'd also have to somehow define which head they had, and they'd have to be from the ones available in the previous two games. That is, if we ever see their faces. They could do what they did with Revan's appearance in Ludo Kresh's tomb in KOTOR 2 by having him appear fully robed and masked. But that was an illusion; a representation. If we specify that Revan was a light-sider, then I don't see why in the world he'd be wearing his Sith Lord garb again.

This is why it is nigh impossible for Revan and/or the Exile to appear in KOTOR 3.

Unless they choose one head for each character from each gender (four in total) as being their "canonical" face, thus not caring how we customized them before. But then by doing so they shatter the entire feeling of having semi-created those characters yourself, and possibly even mess up each person's own personal feeling of continuity as the faces that they had choses in the previous games may not have been what appears in KOTOR 3.


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Old 06-10-2007, 11:59 AM   #31
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Well, I guess to you it makes a big difference a bit of dialog that had no impact in TSL whatsoever but just made the story crappy and without strength. You said that Revan's alignment did not make a big difference in the story. That's what I'm saying. It should have made a huge impact into KOTOR II's plot. Going to the unknowns regions is a poor excuse of the devs to, as you said, give you a minimal illusion of "control" that does not exist.

And that TFU rumor is completely false, in official statements they have said that the only canon story is the one in the novel and comic books, which is obviously one ending. It has nothing to do with an "illusion of control". The control you have, that is not an illusion is the one over your PC. Control over Revan and the Exile is just that, an illusion, a small, unnecessary, and, if possible to make right, would require at least four different games into one. And if it affects only the beginning as you say, what is the damn point? The point of KOTOR III will be that the new PC decides the fate of the galaxy, he is the one that you choose the alignment. Revan and the Exile already decided for the LS canonically. A gray Jedi Order? Kind of like Luke's New Order? In the Old Republic, that won't happen for a fact. A DS Order? What are you smoking now? Would they do the same as LS Jedi? Please.
The point is that it continues to further the fact that you are in control of your character. You decide what your character does.

I don't see why you need 4 seperate games when it is so unnecesary. The fact is, if it was restricted only to canon, it will STILL have the exact same storyline as before, and nothing new or different would be added. Revan is a LSM, so what can be added to that? I mean, anything other than useless padding? Nothing. It will however get many people away from K3, like me and Jediphile. Many people hate the canon choice, even some Light Side-players like LSM Exile more than a LSF Exile and some people like a LSF Revan more than a LSM Revan. Are you going to take that away from them, then, make them have no fun at all?

Even in TSL, you have control over Revan's motivations in the Jedi Civil War, before his capture. Was he fighting to save the Republic or was he seduced to the Dark Side? You have total control over your character, which makes it very unique in the series. And you have control over why Revan went to the Unknown Regions. Did he do it to stop the True Sith? Or was he wanting to conquer it for his own goals?

And, why shouldn't there be a DS Jedi or Grey Jedi Order? Kreia states that the True Jedi are the ones who will found the Jedi Order, regardless if you are LS or DS. The Grey Jedi Order makes much sense for the devs of K3 for a Dark Sider, allowing for the game to continue while making Dark Siders feel that they are being respected.

Obisidan did very well in TSL, and I hope you choose alignment and gender for Revan and Exile in K3 as well.

I will disengage from the conflict with you, and hope you understand.

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They could do what they did with Revan's appearance in Ludo Kresh's tomb in KOTOR 2 by having him appear fully robed and masked. But that was an illusion; a representation. If we specify that Revan was a light-sider, then I don't see why in the world he'd be wearing his Sith Lord garb again.
How do we even know it was a Sith Lord garb? It could just be that Revan wears it all the time as a Jedi, and just kept it when he went to the Dark Side, so people assume it is a Sith Lord garb. For canon LS, Revan would just wear his traditional garb, which happens to be that garb, plus it looks cool. For a Dark Sider, he'll just wear it because he wore it during the past as a Sith Lord and its quite sentimental.

(Plus, wasn't there a bunch of LS robes that can be gotten in the Star Forge? If one really wants, the LS Revan could wear those LS Robes instead, and a DS Revan could wear the DS Robes. Both keep the mask though.)

All you then need is a mask for Exile. Nihilus' mask can do quite nicely for that.


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"The Cambodian government has established many exciting-sounding 're-education camps' where both intellectuals and everyday citizens can be sent at any time," Day said. Well, we at Barnes & Noble have always supported re-education in America, and we intend to extend this policy to our new customers." For every hardcover book sold, Barnes & Noble will donate a dollar to the Cambodian government to help re-educate local children.
Full Article Here
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Old 06-10-2007, 12:15 PM   #32
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But then we're stuck with these characters wearing masks to cover up a big, obvious continuity problem, which will feel extremely hokey to most players. "Oh, well they were customizable characters, so the faces are a problem. Let's just put them both in masks." No one's going to buy it.

The only reason I bought it in the vision that you and Bastila have in KOTOR 1 of a fully-vested Revan infiltrating the Rakatan ruins on Dantooine is because they player, as Revan but know knowing that s/he is Revan, would obviously not see him/herself standing there in place of a figure that his/her mind and the Force recognize as Revan, so, in the vision, the self-image is substituted for a representational figure of the Dark Lord Darth Revan, when in reality Revan and Malak were Jedi at that point and likely dressed normally. (Bastila, on the other hand, probably saw the player character in the dream, knowing Revan's identity.)

And the only reason I bought it (barely) in the tomb in KOTOR 2 was that the vision was, once again, a representation of Revan.


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Old 06-10-2007, 01:06 PM   #33
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*Smashes head against wall repeatedly.*

SilentScope seems to completely miss my point or what I am talking about.
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Old 06-10-2007, 01:27 PM   #34
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But then we're stuck with these characters wearing masks to cover up a big, obvious continuity problem, which will feel extremely hokey to most players. "Oh, well they were customizable characters, so the faces are a problem. Let's just put them both in masks." No one's going to buy it.
But, are faces really that important? The only thing that matters is alignment and gender, really. If people are allowed to set alignment and gender, then why need to show faces? You can imagine what your Revan and Exile looks like, because you know what your Revan and Exile look like. I can buy it, and I'm sure lots of other people can buy it, due to the fact that Revan's attiude would change. Revan would do LS stuff if Revan was LS, Revan would do DS stuff if Revan was DS.

I don't see the need to see Revan's face, not as many other people. A mask would just suffice. You look at the Mask, you know he is Revan. And why would Revan not wear a mask? Is he not a Jedi Knight who wants to deck himself out in the most powerful of armor to wipe out the enemy? Maybe it's a tradition in his homeworld, etc.

However, I do agree that we should not see Revan and Exile that much. The reason is because I don't want to fuel fanboyism...not because it isn't possible.


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"The Cambodian government has established many exciting-sounding 're-education camps' where both intellectuals and everyday citizens can be sent at any time," Day said. Well, we at Barnes & Noble have always supported re-education in America, and we intend to extend this policy to our new customers." For every hardcover book sold, Barnes & Noble will donate a dollar to the Cambodian government to help re-educate local children.
Full Article Here
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Old 06-10-2007, 03:18 PM   #35
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I just think throwing everyone in masks to cover up the problem of them being past customizable characters is a cheap and lazy way around it, and the public is definitely going to pick up on that truth. I'd rather not see them at all if it comes to that.


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Old 06-10-2007, 03:40 PM   #36
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Alright, I understand. I would like to see Revan and Exile in masks, but I understand what you mean. Even so, it seems that they have to have Revan and Exile over there, if only to reveal their fates. Killing them off-screen (by stating that Revan and Exile heroically died fighting True Sith) however could be more suitable than the mask idea, if you prefer that way.


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"The Cambodian government has established many exciting-sounding 're-education camps' where both intellectuals and everyday citizens can be sent at any time," Day said. Well, we at Barnes & Noble have always supported re-education in America, and we intend to extend this policy to our new customers." For every hardcover book sold, Barnes & Noble will donate a dollar to the Cambodian government to help re-educate local children.
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Old 06-10-2007, 08:19 PM   #37
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Eh I can't really see a DS Revan or Exile dieing a hero's death.
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Old 06-10-2007, 09:08 PM   #38
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I definitely think the Canon endings should be nailed down for K3, otherwise there would either have to be multiple, multiple plot deviations for LSM/LSF, and all the other options, or a convoluted cookie-cutter plot on a far grander scale than we saw in TSL.

The Face issue could be dealt with rather easily: Kill off the Exile, and allow Revan to keep the robes and mask. Besides, the fact that nobody knew what Revan actually looked like under the mask might indicate that he had always worn the mask, even as a light sider. As I recall, in the first Vision, on Dantooine, RIGHT BEFORE REVAN AND MALAK FELL, Revan was already wearing his signature mask and robes, although Malak had none of the trappings of the Sith.





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Old 06-10-2007, 09:20 PM   #39
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As I recall, in the first Vision, on Dantooine, RIGHT BEFORE REVAN AND MALAK FELL, Revan was already wearing his signature mask and robes, although Malak had none of the trappings of the Sith.
He was already pretty much into the Dark Side by then. Of course, the mask and robes were an excuse for various things. But using that mask as a Jedi still? And those black robes? A bit extreme, don't you think? I mean, Anakin by the Clone Wars used different clothing than the Jedi "standard" as an indicative of the Dark Side too, but Revan's robes and mask are way too much. They used it for game mechanics, they couldn't have made a dozen different videos just because you choose some face. And, that gives us another fact, Revan is a normal human, why would he hide under a mask? I maintain my strict canon position: give both Revan and the Exile canonical appearances.
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Old 06-10-2007, 10:03 PM   #40
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As I recall, in the first Vision, on Dantooine, RIGHT BEFORE REVAN AND MALAK FELL, Revan was already wearing his signature mask and robes.
Go back and read my last post. That was a representation, because the dreamer - Revan himself - did not know that he was Reven at that time, so naturally he would have seen the familiar Sith Lord in place of himself. In reality, Revan would have probably been still dressed as a Jedi when the events of that vision actually took place, as was Malak.

And there is nothing to indicate that no one knew what Revan looked like before his fall. Everyone who mentions him - such as Juhani and Canderous - speak of him as a hero whom they admired from afar, but have never seen in person. Others who knew his identity - Bastila and Jolee - simply avoided telling Reven that he was Revan, so they talked about "Revan" as if he were someone else. And Carth, it sounds as if he had never know Revan until he was a Sith Lord, so he would have never seen him unmasked.


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