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Old 06-12-2007, 05:23 PM   #1
Masgrtgr
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Things that MUST be in KOTOR 3 imo.

1.The option for non-lethal blows (cutting off of hands), Force *Pull* and Force *Stealth*. Simply, the power to pull weapons from enemies' hands or sneak past them using the Force to cloud their minds. In short, if I'm Light Side - I don't want to kill anyone if I can avoid it! I'm fed up with slaughtering every minor grunt left, right and centre. My character is a *Jedi*, not a Fighter/Paladin. I'm amazed that the Jedi Knight series - which are ACTION games - have far more opportunities for sparing the lives of pointless enemies than the KOTOR roleplaying series.

2.Those damn 'cortosis ore swords' and hand-to-hand troopers gone. I'm a Jedi with a lightsaber, you are a bottom-rung grunt. I don't care if your sword is made of 'cortosis ore', you still don't stand a chance, so why bother? Drop your damn fancy smancyl sword, stick to your gun and get killed/stunned/forced into submission like you should. If you're not a force-user, I shouldn't even have to take you into consideration when playing this game. You're not there to provide opposition, you're there to make my character look good.

3.More red lightsaber-wielding and force-using foes. Maybe even some variation here and there, with some dark side adepts or something who have no lightsaber and whose primary attack mode is purely based on high-level Force Powers. Simply to up the difficulty now that those ridiculous 'swordfighting with cortosis' soldiers from 2) are no longer there. You should be able to fight more Jedi and Sith and less nameless grunts.

4.Much more Droids and Monsters and others such as maybe guys with Ysalimri as well. They are also better opponents for Jedi and Dark Jedi/Sith than nameless grunts.

5.I am a *FORCE USER*. If I am Dark Side, and I am playing Pazaak or driving a swoop bike, I am going to use the Force to cheat as much as humanly possible. I want that option. Something like being able to use the Force to either predict the next card that will be drawn, or see the other guy's hold cards, or slow down the swoop race so that I can see where I need to go and get there before I would. Ok, it's not fair - but if I'm dark side, I don't much care.

6. More of this 'party split up' stuff. Every planet has a variety of missions attached to it. I'd LOVE it if you could detach party members in 'groups' to pursue alternative objectives seperately. I find the idea that only 2 of the Ebon Hawk's crew come with you while the other 6 or 7 remain on the ship absolutely preposterous.

7.For the new character, the first planet he/she starts out on DOESN'T EXPLODE. Notice how in both of the games the first planet was always destroyed somehow? Well this time, I want a nice, happy departure.

8. I wouldn't mind a better way to fall to the Dark Side. Like you have to choose between saving someone you love, or continuing on your mission. Not the crappy "I am a sith lord, bow to me" crap we keep getting. In a nutshell, I want something beyond killing/stealing/threatening to get DS points

9.A much more thought out Influence system which if I'm playing DS should give me the option to lie to Party Members for influence. In addition when properly influenced characters should change their behaviors to reflect their alignments.

10. Being able to choose Revan and Exile's genders and alignments. Faces are uneccesary. I don't think anyone outside of a small group of people would know what Revan looks like.

11. More varied death animations. Really in K1 and K2 I can't count the number of death animation that looked extremely dumb or akward.

12.Heavy Armor should decrease your dodge rather than somehow increasing it. Also you should be able to use Force powers in Heavy Armor.

13.When in a Lightsaber duel with a boss HP should be replaced with Vitality points. When in a Lightsaber duel when you strike a hit Vitality is knocked down. The more the opponents Vitality goes down their dodge gets worse, their attacks get less accurate, and their AI pattern changes. When both Vitality and Life Points goes down the animation actually shows the Lightsaber striking the opponent killing or disarming them.

14.Force using bosses and other important characters should be like they were in Jedi Knight, having their own individual techniques and fighting styles which reflects their strength's and weaknesses.

15.Better balance between ranged and melee weapons. Ranged weapons need to either do more damage, be more accurate or have a faster rate of fire. A guy charging at me with a vibroblade shouldn't be a massive problem for my soldier armed with a high powered blaster. Either make the ranged weaponry stronger, give it more attacks per round without penalty, or remove the pentalties for using a ranged weapon in melee combat.


16.More intelligent AI for both party members and opponents. Special attacks and unique skills should be used by party members without you having to select them, party members should also have the brains to switch weapons when needed. I'm also sick of party members deciding that the best way to handle an enemy is to run directly into a mine-field.

Enemies also need to have better tactics. Currently they either stand there and shoot at you, or run at you and start hacking. Opponents should, when they outnumber you, try and surround you or they should panic and run off if you kill all their friends in the first round of combat.

17.The direction of an attack should influence how likely it will be for you to block, dodge or deflect attacks. No Jedi/Sith is going to be able to deflect a stream of blaster bolts that are fired at their back by a small army.

18.Drops and loot. Needs to be both more random and more logical. While finding 20 blaster pistols is fine, suddenly finding 10 disrupter pistols the next time you play is pushing it. The drops should also take into account where you happen to be. More than once I've found Jedi master robes on Koriban....which seems a little odd to me-Sith Lord robes would have been more logical.

19.NPC's should react to how you look and anything you happen to be carrying. If you are going DS evil they should comment on your evil looks. If they don't like Jedi they should react badly if you try and question them while holding a lightsabre (And they should remember that you were carrying one if you talk to them again). They should also be wary or influenced if you happen to be holding something like a military blaster rifle.

20.There should be more quests that require you to travel around, ie-to other planets-to finish, that are not part of the main plot. This was tried in K2, but never really worked-mainly due to glitches that prevented you from finishing them. For example you might have the option to do some bounty hunting which would require you to find the person on another world.

21.Background/history. The Main Character should have been doing something before they became a Jedi, or after they left the Jedi (depending on the fully back story) in order to pay for food etc. It was never explained in K2 how the Exile managed to afford to travel around without money or a ship before the Harbringer. It would be nice if you had the option to decide how they made a living before the game starts, and that choice can affect what skills/feats you start with. (For example if you decided the main Character had been working as a tech you might be able to get gear-head and a point or two in repair and computer skills at the start of the game).

22. Bosses should use things like Telekineses in combat. Really I'd figure any decent Force user should be able to do things like that.

23. Don't add any previous characters from K1 and K2 as PM's aside from maybe T3 and Bastilla unless there's a very good reason for them joining. Really HK and Candalore didn't really seem to serve a purpose other than continuity in K2.

24.Characters should have USEFUL unique abilities and feats which are dependent on their professions and traits. K2 tried this but most of the time they hardly ever mattered due to how easy the game was and how for every ability there was something else that did the same. For example Bastilla would be the only one to be able to use Battle Meditation and so forth.

25.Try to make the party seem like a cohesive entity. In KotOR I did get the feeling that we were a group of people working towards a common goal; there was a sense of comradery that I liked. In KotOR II however, it always felt like I was babysitting a bunch of squalling brats who couldn't be trusted or left alone in the same room. This reduced my enjoyment and kept me from getting attached to, or caring about, any party members.

26. One thing I really enjoyed in KotOR II was how you would often get bonus feats/powers from roleplaying and talking with people. I'd like to see rewards like that to be given out in the third game.

27.if K3 is going to have an influence system then give me a way to track my progress (meters, numbers anything).

28.-If the developers are going to make me trek through vast expanses with nothing in it i want a speeder or some sort of fast travel.

29.If K3 is going to have planets like Manaan in it then there really should be a more efficient way to travel the map.

30.Party members who do things in the ship instead of just standing around.

Last edited by Masgrtgr; 06-17-2007 at 03:45 AM.
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Old 06-12-2007, 06:52 PM   #2
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I like beating up grunts! but apart from that I agree with all your points. I would definitely like to be able to cut of limbs and watch em squirm!
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Old 06-12-2007, 07:13 PM   #3
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These MUST be in it? No. Half your ideas are ridiculous, they'd have to completely change the system on which KotoR is based. You're talking a release sometime in 2013 so you can cut guy's hands off.
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Old 06-13-2007, 02:07 PM   #4
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^^
Don't you think your over exaggerating a bit? there hardly Ridiculous requests
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Old 06-13-2007, 02:56 PM   #5
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Well, perhaps the "poor grunt" can occasionally be backed up by the presence of ysalimari (sp?), which forces you to use your feats rather than powers to overcome your opponents. Just occasionally, to throw you a curve and keep things interesting.


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Old 06-13-2007, 04:07 PM   #6
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Actually, no, I'm not exaggerating. The current system runs on a D20 system similar to D&D, and it doesn't have the system in place for subdual damage, bodily dismemberment, not to mention your suggestions for armor. Your ideas would basically mean scrapping the ruleset, as well as needing a significant upgrade to the engine, unless you think they should use a completely new one.
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Old 06-13-2007, 09:36 PM   #7
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I'd like to see force lightning even more broken. No, really. They should have an automatic lightning button so I can just remove the middle man (my pointer finger) and storm rooms upon entry.





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Old 06-14-2007, 06:11 AM   #8
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Get a great AI and the "poor grunts" are actually worth fighting. And while it seems a bit strange that every second guy has a cortosis sword and the fighting skills to last against a Jedi... What would a RPG be without melee combat?
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Old 06-14-2007, 06:52 AM   #9
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Well, here we go again!


Real time action RPG base Jedi/Sith lightsaber combat.
I'm tired of the computer having all the fun.
With the Euphoria environmental A.I. awareness software and DMM(digital molecular matter) physical motions and effects animation engine.
NaturalMotion's Dynamic Motion Synthesis (DMS) A.I. full simulation of the 3D character, including body, muscles and motor nervous system, animation software.
Real time day/night environmental and weather effects.
A choice of starships, I'm tired of seeing the Ebon Hawk.
I will like to fly my starship, I'm tired of seeing transit cut scenes.
No health bars!
Realistic location damage: stress, rupture: expose weakness danger area on the armor.
Decapitation and dismemberments of limbs!
When on worlds I will like to drive or fly speeders, I can't stress this enough.
Huge exploration maps!
A lot more planets to explore, a lot more than 7 .
A full implemented swoop racing option, where you actually race other swoops bikes, not just time trials.
A long, long, long mission story.
A lot more party members, you can take with you, not only two.
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Old 06-14-2007, 11:18 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Masgrtgr
1.The option for non-lethal blows (cutting off of hands), Force *Pull* and Force *Stealth*.
{Snipped remainder of quote to save space for what is essentially a one line post} -RH
I completely agree

Last edited by RedHawke; 06-15-2007 at 04:41 AM.
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Old 06-14-2007, 12:04 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Masgrtgr
and Force *Stealth*...sneak past them using the Force to cloud their minds.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Windu Chi
Real time action RPG base Jedi/Sith lightsaber combat.
I took you 8 replies to put this in. You're slipping.

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Old 06-14-2007, 12:09 PM   #12
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I say that there should be a visible 'Mass Shadow Generator' in KotOR III somewhere.

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Old 06-14-2007, 12:32 PM   #13
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If all of those suggestions are implemented, the D20 gameplay is going to be royally screwed.


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Old 06-14-2007, 02:46 PM   #14
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Roughly half the requests are competable with the D20 system. The rest is just way out there. So No, I don't see developing a new rp system for k3 is worth it.

At least we are not using the Star Wars standard D20 systems where all redshirt grunts are 1 hit kill and worth minimal xp.
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Old 06-14-2007, 04:32 PM   #15
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I think Masgrtgr is under the impression this is the forum for The Force Unleashed, not KotOR.
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Old 06-14-2007, 05:18 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corinthian
Actually, no, I'm not exaggerating. The current system runs on a D20 system similar to D&D, and it doesn't have the system in place for subdual damage, bodily dismemberment, not to mention your suggestions for armor. Your ideas would basically mean scrapping the ruleset, as well as needing a significant upgrade to the engine, unless you think they should use a completely new one.
Agreed.

The only thing I can really completely agree on with the thread-maker is improving the AI...


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Old 06-14-2007, 05:27 PM   #17
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Old 06-14-2007, 05:35 PM   #18
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All the stuff about blows, parries, and cutting off certain parts of a person's body are unnecessary and worthless. There should, however, be more focus on the AI like you said, like enemies using tactics, and NPCs reacting to you and/or your party members.
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Old 06-15-2007, 12:46 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Sparrow
All the stuff about blows, parries, and cutting off certain parts of a person's body are unnecessary and worthless.
Why is it unnecessary and worthless, sir Captain?
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Old 06-15-2007, 12:52 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Windu Chi
Why is it unnecessary and worthless, sir Captain?
Because KotOR is an RPG, not an action game. The main focus should be on the plot, character depth, and side quests - not flashy lightsaber battles, blaster bolt dodging, and button mashing. Fighting is fun and all, but it's not nearly as important to an RPG as the story.
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Old 06-15-2007, 01:01 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Sparrow
Because KotOR is an RPG, not an action game. The main focus should be on the plot, character depth, and side quests - not flashy lightsaber battles, blaster bolt dodging, and button mashing. Fighting is fun and all, but it's not nearly as important to an RPG as the story.
Who said, action game, I said action RPG?
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Old 06-15-2007, 01:17 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Windu Chi
Who said, action game, I said action RPG?
Ok, whatever you want to call it. Action game, action RPG, it doesn't make a difference to me.

The combat just doesn't need such a major change when the demand for it is simply not high enough.
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Old 06-15-2007, 01:26 AM   #23
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Exclamation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Sparrow
The combat just doesn't need such a major change when the demand for it is simply not high enough.
From your perspective!
I see demand going up from many other forums around the net.
Like LucasArts Game Discussion Forums and Gamespot discussion forums, for example.
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Old 06-15-2007, 03:43 AM   #24
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You could have twitch combat or more realistic combat, (a bad thing) but the story would be shunted as a result. To make up for the extra cost of paying the devs to come up with a more complicated combat system they'd have to trim the storyline budget. If it was profitable for companies to make games with top-notch stories and combat you'd be seeing a lot of them nowadays, which I have not.


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Old 06-15-2007, 04:45 AM   #25
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From your perspective!
I see demand going up from many other forums around the net.
Like LucasArts Game Discussion Forums and Gamespot discussion forums, for example.
Sales figures of both KotOR and TSL would seem to contend with your postion, and those posting on the LA Forums and Gamespot that you value so highly.


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Old 06-15-2007, 05:08 AM   #26
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Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedHawke
Sales figures of both KotOR and TSL would seem to contend with your postion,
You know we aren't going to come to an agreement on this, RedHawke.

Those sales could mean they are just star wars fans; they buy it anyway or some people who want something new, for those who haven't played KOtOR and TSL yet.

By the way, are you a girl, I'm assuming from your avatar?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedHawke
and those posting on the LA Forums and Gamespot that you value so highly.
You're sadly mistaken!
I don't value them so highly, I just gave examples, there are plenty of game discussion forums around the net, RedHawke.
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Old 06-15-2007, 06:38 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Windu Chi
By the way, are you a girl, I'm assuming from your avatar?

I believe (wrongly?) that RH is a male. A previous avatar was of Ming the Merciless from Flash Gordon. Also, I believe several guys on this forum use avatars with a female image (photo/artwork), LIAYD being one of them.


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Old 06-15-2007, 07:10 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Totenkopf
I believe (wrongly?) that RH is a male. A previous avatar was of Ming the Merciless from Flash Gordon. Also, I believe several guys on this forum use avatars with a female image (photo/artwork), LIAYD being one of them.
I'm surprised no one's confused me for a girl yet.


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Old 06-15-2007, 08:37 AM   #29
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You know, Windu, you'd be a lot better off on the Force Unleashed forum. Or the Jedi Knight forum.
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Old 06-15-2007, 08:58 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Corinthian
You know, Windu, you'd be a lot better off on the Force Unleashed forum. Or the Jedi Knight forum.
What do mean I'll be a lot better off?

I don't care what odds are against me here, I'm going to aggressively battle my stance, about the issue in this game.

Your concern for my well-being is not needed.
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Old 06-15-2007, 12:56 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corinthian
You know, Windu, you'd be a lot better off on the Force Unleashed forum. Or the Jedi Knight forum.
What, Discussing K3? I think he'd be getting a bit more slack than this.

regarding messing up the beloved D20 engine, I personally play only star wars games, having never played any other RPG before I can't really argue with anyone, all I know is what I want from a possible K3. People must see that it's not only veteran gamers/RPG lovers who would buy it.
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Old 06-15-2007, 01:03 PM   #32
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I personally play only star wars games
You only play Star Wars Games?! Well mate you've certainly missed out on a lot of gaming gems both past & present!
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Old 06-15-2007, 01:13 PM   #33
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^^^
I understand this, I'm trying to broaden my palette!
I got a NES for Christmas (with Mario and Duck hunt!) when I was wee, but it took me another 16 years to get an XBOX with Obi-Wan, Sad I know
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Old 06-15-2007, 03:25 PM   #34
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Not that the story in TSL was particularly captivating...




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Old 06-15-2007, 03:50 PM   #35
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Not that the story in TSL was particularly captivating...
Why yes, actually, it was. At least it was original, unlike KotOR which was a carbon copy of Ep. 4-6.
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Old 06-15-2007, 05:03 PM   #36
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I'd trade in everything mentioned in this thread for a well executed story. TSL had a great plot, shame we only heard half of it.

And as far as action in the game is concerned, I hope we get some nicer visuals but I (and we all should, I might add) play for the plot and freedom to choose your own goals (kinda what RPGs are famous for); button mashing action can sod off else wear. SW Battlefront is great, try that.
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Old 06-15-2007, 05:22 PM   #37
adamqd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henz
And as far as action in the game is concerned, I hope we get some nicer visuals but I (and we all should, I might add) play for the plot and freedom to choose your own goals (kinda what RPGs are famous for); button mashing action can sod off else wear. SW Battlefront is great, try that.
That's all I'm asking for personally, just some more attention to visuals etc,
I can't understand why this amounts to ****ing up the franchise
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Old 06-16-2007, 01:17 PM   #38
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What I don't want is the influence system; or at least the system as it is in TSL: it is simply hell trying to find the right places for influence boosts when I really should be focusing on the story... a lot of which, of course, is buried in characters which I simply can't influence.

I'd also like more speech choices for several characters. Whilst Atton is undoubtedly one of the most interesting and mysterious characters in The Sith Lords with a great amount of potential regarding his background, I find it irritating that the only speech choices with him are regarding pazaak and that only an obscure scenario on Nar Shaddaa will help dig up any of his back story... which, as it happens, is pretty thin anyway.


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Last edited by i_shot_the_jedi; 03-26-2008 at 11:56 AM.
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Old 06-16-2007, 01:34 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by i_shot_the_jedi
What I don't want is the influence system; or at least the system as it is in TSL: it is simply hell trying to find the right places for influence boosts when I really should be focussing on the story... a lot of which, of course, is buried in characters which I simply can't influence.
That was very good feature they added in TSL, that made the game more realistic; when it came to talking to your party members, it will suck if they get rid of that feature.
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Old 06-16-2007, 01:42 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Windu Chi
That was very good feature they added in TSL, that made the game more realistic; when it came to talking to your party members, it will suck if they get rid of that feature.
I agree, especially because you need influence to turn them into jedi.


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