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Old 06-16-2007, 12:56 PM   #41
Char Ell
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Masgrtgr
4.Much more Droids and Monsters and others such as maybe guys with Ysalimri as well.
Ugh! No ysalimiri in KotOR please. Perhaps a game level where Force powers are disabled, like visiting the planet Myrkr where ysalamiri are originally from but I don't want and don't think it's appropriate for someone to be running around with ysalamiri on their persons to ward off Force attacks. I prefer for that idea to remain original to Grand Admiral Thrawn.

IMO the next KotOR must have separate feats for two-weapon fighting and staff-fighting. Fighting with two lightsabers/swords requires a much different skill set than fighting with a quarterstaff/double-bladed lightsaber.


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Old 06-16-2007, 03:10 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by i_shot_the_jedi
What I don't want is the influence system; or at least the system as it is in TSL: it is simply hell trying to find the right places for influence boosts when I really should be focussing on the story... a lot of which, of course, is buried in characters which I simply can't influence.

I'd also like more speech choices for several characters. Whilst Atton is undoubtedly one of the most interesting and mysterious characters in The Sith Lords with a great amount of potential regarding his background, I find it irritating that the only speech choices with him are regarding pazaak and that only an obscure scenario on Nar Shaddaa will help dig up any of his back story... which, as it happens, is pretty thin anyway.
Personally, I like a system closer to the first Kotor; the more planets and people you meet, the better situated you became with a person. Now, a mix between that and the TSL's influence system would be great. By the way, I totally agree about Atton. Every time I went to talk with him, and wanted to add the lines myself.


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Old 06-16-2007, 06:35 PM   #43
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Bao Dur was sure an interesting character as well...

Yes General?

Never mind.

edit - and to preempt.. yes I am aware he can be promoted to Jedi... he's still boring..

edit 2: @ Captain: I don't know why you insist on telling me that my opinions are incorrect... but the plot was so captivating to me that I forgot about it. And I only beat the game a few weeks ago. There's no clear story development, mostly because the character is known as an "Exile" and has no true identity. The concept of a hole in the Force is nice, but isn't used that well. Traya is blatantly obvious, I mean... worse than Sidious in ROTS. The first KotOR at least kept you going for a while on the notion that you were someone other than Revan. Or it did to me at least. KotOR also had clear cut reasons for visiting planets, even though they were only for Star Maps. TSL had me going to planets for no real reason.

But anyway, hopefully KotOR 3 will return to Revan's exploits.




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Old 06-16-2007, 07:16 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by Mike Windu
Captain: I don't know why you insist on telling me that my opinions are incorrect...
I didn't tell you you're opinion was incorrect, I just stated my opinion on the matter. I never said my opinion was any better than your.

But if you'd like me to put "IMO" after everything I say, I'd be glad to do it.
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Old 06-16-2007, 09:26 PM   #45
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The only aspects of the game that I think are absolutely necessary are the major features of the first two games to be included in the third, one hit deaths (Under certain circumstances.) with the lightsabers, real time combat (This one I can do without, but the way it was constructed in both games caused a terrible amount of lag. I just bought a fresh copy of KotOR for my 360. Lags like hell.) and swarms of enemies to counter act the one hit lightsaber deaths in later levels. The "swarms" would force you to rely on powers and feats rather than strength and a blade. Well, I suppose that since I say I can do without them that they aren't absolutely necessary in my mind, but they would be welcome additions to the already amazing system. Actually, if they could do it like Fable or Oblivion, but keep their own system of character customization and leveling it would be a fantastic, possibly prefect, game.


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Old 06-17-2007, 01:38 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Windu Chi
You know we aren't going to come to an agreement on this, RedHawke.
Nope...

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Originally Posted by Windu Chi
Those sales could mean they are just star wars fans; they buy it anyway or some people who want something new, for those who haven't played KOtOR and TSL yet.
As much as you want to ignore the 'facts' here, and try to 'blur' the issue with some topic sleight-of-hand, sales figures are what companies look at, that is the bottom-line to get a game sequel produced. Game companies are about making a profit. That's a fact.

Your very mis-informed when it comes to the gaming industry it seems.

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You're sadly mistaken!
You speak about yourself here... about a great many things.

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Originally Posted by Windu Chi
I don't value them so highly, I just gave examples, there are plenty of game discussion forums around the net, RedHawke.
Yes there are, perhaps you can tell me how they are good evidence of your positions? Also please tell me how this statement actually relatesto, or answers, in any way, what I said to you?

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Originally Posted by Windu Chi
By the way, are you a girl, I'm assuming from your avatar?
I'll leave this up to your interpretation.


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Old 06-17-2007, 01:58 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by RedHawke
Nope...
I see we understand each other.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RedHawke
Game companies are about making a profit. That's a fact.
Duh!
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedHawke
Your very mis-informed when it comes to the gaming industry it seems.
Whatever you say!


Quote:
Originally Posted by RedHawke
You speak about yourself here... about a great many things.
What in the hell is you talking about?
I said your assumption here: LA Forums and Gamespot that you value so highly.
Was wrong!


Quote:
Originally Posted by RedHawke
Yes there are, perhaps you can tell me how they are good evidence of your positions? Also please tell me how this statement actually relates or answers, in any way, what I said to you?
Well, I'm only register at Gamespot and Lucasarts, but when skim through other sites I see more and more and more people complaining about the turn-base combat in TSL.
That's all!
Also sales aren't no good indicator that people like the turn-base combat in the KOTOR and TSL, that info could mean anything, RedHawke.

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I'll leave this up to your interpretation.
Well, if you want to keep it secret, then I won't ask no more, girl/man
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Old 06-18-2007, 12:37 AM   #48
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I don't care if they make it a dang puzzle game, I just want to know what happens with the story!

Personally I'd like to see the action spiced up a bit, but if they keep the same turn based combat from the other two games I won't be complaining. I bought the first game without the knowledge of it being turn based, I just knew it was Star Wars. All I had were the pretty little pictures they had in an old issue of EGM, which pretty much explained nothing except the graphics were going to rock.

I don't care if it is like Jedi Outcast, Galactic Battlegrounds, or EP1: Racer, just finish the story. Please?!
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Old 06-18-2007, 12:55 AM   #49
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I'd like to see another sequence like the Khoonda Defense on Dantooine(easily my favorite part of K2), in keeping with my hope that the third KotOR will be a larger game, in terms of plot and party size(but I think i've already mentioned that somewhere else).

I am largely indifferrent towards the D20 system, but if it ain't broke(and somebody obviously likes it, elsewise the first two games wouldn't be so popular), don't fix it.

Also, I'd like to see more customization options, in terms of character appearance and personality(i.e. more dialogue options with varied outcome), as well as more personalized weapons, especially lightsabers.





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Old 06-18-2007, 02:41 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Windu Chi
Also sales aren't no good indicator that people like the turn-base combat in the KOTOR and TSL, that info could mean anything, RedHawke.
The sales aren't a good indicator? Now if that isn't one of the most ignorant things I've ever heard.

If people didn't like it, they wouldn't buy it. Now would they?
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Old 06-18-2007, 02:55 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Sparrow
The sales aren't a good indicator? Now if that isn't one of the most ignorant things I've ever heard.

If people didn't like it, they wouldn't buy it. Now would they?
The sales figures would indicate the game is popular, but don't speak to the specifics of WHY. Personally, I've got no problem with the turn based combat system. The story is paramount and the old maxim about not fixing something that ain't broke would seem to apply.


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Old 06-18-2007, 03:31 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Sparrow
The sales aren't a good indicator? Now if that isn't one of the most ignorant things I've ever heard.

If people didn't like it, they wouldn't buy it. Now would they?
How do they know they'll like it before they've brought it? it's not a brand of cigarettes, you buy it once and if it's not your thing tough luck, if it is, good! cause your part of the sales figures either way. No one is disputing a turn based system as a selling point, but the chances are a majority of people who brought it did so because it was Star Wars.
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Old 06-18-2007, 10:13 AM   #53
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There must be a hot coffee mod!!!


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Old 06-18-2007, 11:15 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adamqd
How do they know they'll like it before they've brought it?
If they choose to, there are always a ton of reviews and previews for a game (especially star wars games) as well as lots of player reviews as well. It was made very clear up front what kind of game KOTOR was, so there really isn't any excuse for someone to not know at least what kind of game they were buying. I would suggest that most people had an idea of what kind of game they are buying...

Quote:
Originally Posted by adamqd
it's not a brand of cigarettes, you buy it once and if it's not your thing tough luck, if it is, good! cause your part of the sales figures either way.
Sure they are a part, but I think it is safe to say they are in no way a large part. If real-time turn-based was unpopular, you would have heard about it in the reviews, and the sales would have tapered off as more people became aware of it. Instead, the game was immensely popular, and led to sequel of the same kind that also sold extremely well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by adamqd
No one is disputing a turn based system as a selling point, but the chances are a majority of people who brought it did so because it was Star Wars.
Probably, but it still has to be a good game. There have been many poor SW games that have ended in poor sales. It takes a game with fundamental parts that people enjoy as well to result in not only one of the best selling Star Wars games of all time, but an all-time best seller for the console.

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Old 06-18-2007, 11:42 AM   #55
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I like It the way it is, I'm primarily a Star Wars Fan, although I did know what I was buying when they came out. I am just pointing out some argument's for, because some of the arguments against have been a bit lazy, people have been mis-quoted too. Hey, a lot of this stuff is unprovable anyway, I'm not gonna take your word for it like you shouldn't take mine
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Old 06-19-2007, 11:56 AM   #56
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What in the hell is you talking about?
A question I ask myself every single time you post something...

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Originally Posted by Windu Chi
I said your assumption here: LA Forums and Gamespot that you value so highly.
Was wrong!
I do not see where I made an assumption.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Windu Chi
Well, I'm only register at Gamespot and Lucasarts, but when skim through other sites I see more and more and more people complaining about the turn-base combat in TSL.
That's all!
This indeed looks like you sure 'value' what is said on those forums... or am I "assuming"? Again?

But if I am 'assuming' then what was the above statement for?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Windu Chi
Also sales aren't no good indicator that people like the turn-base combat in the KOTOR and TSL, that info could mean anything, RedHawke.
Wow! Just wow! This statement is pure and utter schlock! And laughable at best!

Sorry Windu, but you are not too 'keen' on how the real world operates.


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Old 06-19-2007, 12:43 PM   #57
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The D20 turn-based system might not have had a great effect on the very earliest sales of KotOR I, but after it was well reviewed, it probably drew many fans from the RPG community(as opposed to the original audience of Star Wars junkies). The sales of the second one, however, most certainly indicate that the turn based system worked, at least for someone, in the gaming community.





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Old 06-19-2007, 06:03 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by John Galt
The D20 turn-based system might not have had a great effect on the very earliest sales of KotOR I, but after it was well reviewed, it probably drew many fans from the RPG community(as opposed to the original audience of Star Wars junkies). The sales of the second one, however, most certainly indicate that the turn based system worked, at least for someone, in the gaming community.
Exactly.
And if the game sold so well with no complaints about the turn based system (even this kid wanting it changed seems okay with it), I very much doubt the devs will bother completely re-designing the game for a third installment, for no real reason. They'll see it as an unnecessary risk.

I see it as a pointless risk too. Minor tweaks are fine, but why take a chance totally changing the game genre that could kill the franchise when the current system is fine? I don't particularly want to chance it. Fighting isn't a game priority ayway. I want another great story and possibly some arc resolution and I don't want to endure a balls'd up fighting system to experience it.
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Old 06-20-2007, 01:01 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by RedHawke
A question I ask myself every single time you post something...
Well, you're going to continue to be asking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedHawke
This indeed looks like you sure 'value' what is said on those forums... or am I "assuming"? Again?
Assuming!
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedHawke
But if I am 'assuming' then what was the above statement for?
I said, when I look at other gaming forums, I see many people having some kind of complaint about the dice combat.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RedHawke
Wow! Just wow! This statement is pure and utter schlock! And laughable at best!
And your love for dice combat is just plain laughable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedHawke
Sorry Windu, but you are not too 'keen' on how the real world operates.
Yeah, whatever, girl/man.

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Old 06-20-2007, 05:27 AM   #60
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i think that k3 should have longer turrent battles and perhaps more puzzles but harder like you need to use tactics to get pass the level and no loading between maps instead you have to like kill or get a high lv before going to the next stage i think that will be fun and some games i have played uses the headset with microphone to send orders to your team like you don't use your hands just your voice to guide the party its a lot of fun to dod it like that


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Old 06-21-2007, 02:30 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by Windu Chi
Assuming!
Apparently not...

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Originally Posted by Windu Chi
I said, when I look at other gaming forums, I see many people having some kind of complaint about the dice combat.
Yes, then by stating this you are indeed placing 'value' on it by using it in your arguments... so my assumptions about your 'valuing them' are indeed correct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Windu Chi
And your love for dice combat is just plain laughable.
Your above statement about game sales is laughable because it shows your ignorance of the business world.

My "love for dice combat" is laughable for what reason? Other than your insistance that you speak for a silent 'majority' that really isn't there.

Also immature copying of my statements back at me will get you nowhere here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Windu Chi
Yeah, whatever, girl/man.
Perhaps in 20 or so years you can come back and discuss things with me, until then I put you in the 'odd little kid who hasn't expirienced reality beyond his parents house' catagory.


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Old 06-21-2007, 03:00 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by RedHawke
Apparently not...


Yes, then by stating this you are indeed placing 'value' on it by using it in your arguments... so my assumptions about your 'valuing them' are indeed correct.
You are saying that sales of the game mean people like the dice combat in the game, you're placing value on that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RedHawke
Your above statement about game sales is laughable because it shows your ignorance of the business world.
Ok, Mr or Mrs, or whatever you are; you don't know nothing about what I understand, so you can assume what you want.
I know the world is greedy and corrupt.
You're not informing me with nothing new, RedHawke.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedHawke
My "love for dice combat" is laughable for what reason? Other than your insistance that you speak for a silent 'majority' that really isn't there.
Because you enjoy throwing dice to win a fight in a game, that's what is funny to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedHawke
Also immature copying of my statements back at me will get you nowhere here.
Oh, you got to go calling people names, now.
Huh!

Who is more mature here?


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Originally Posted by RedHawke
Perhaps in 20 or so years you can come back and discuss things with me, until then I put you in the 'odd little kid who hasn't expirienced reality beyond his parents house' catagory.
I see you're really piss off with me.
You know I can get really angry with you now, but forget it.
I'm going to go cool off.

Last edited by Windu Chi; 06-21-2007 at 04:52 AM.
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Old 06-21-2007, 05:27 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by Windu Chi
Oh, you got to go calling people names, now.
Huh!

Who is more mature here?
He's just calling a spade a spade really...

People like the D20 ruleset because it (in most cases, at least) involves a little more strategy than just tapping buttons. The fun really comes from leveling up and shaping your character's own unique abilities whilst roleplaying. The D&D style gameplay gives you the best chance at enjoying that element of roleplaying. Action CRPGs are good sometimes too but it would be a shame to change the way the game is played at this point. If it aint broke don't fix it.


...
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Old 06-21-2007, 06:10 AM   #64
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Logically, Windu Chi, Knights of the Old Republic wouldn't have gotten Game of the Year if people didn't like the combat system, it's a fairly integral part of gameplay. Besides, what you're requesting has already been done, and is being done again: See Dark Forces 2: Jedi Knight, Jedi Knight 2: Jedi Outcast, Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy, and Star Wars: The Force Unleashed.
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Old 06-21-2007, 11:58 AM   #65
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IMO, As long as HK-47 is back in the Third One...I really enjoy his personality a lot. Also, I would love to see a Jedi Droid...Not like that sicko Grievous, but an actual droid(i guess would have had to be an organic meatbag at some point in time) that can use the Force and wield melee weapons and lightsabers.
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Old 06-21-2007, 01:25 PM   #66
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http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Iron_Knights

You mean like one of those guys?
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Old 06-21-2007, 02:24 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by Corinthian
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Iron_Knights

You mean like one of those guys?
Yes...like an Iron Knight, but at the same time, I do not want it to be an Force Sensitive life-form whose sole-dependance on life is the droid body...That would not make for an intersting background. I want it to be more like someone, sith or Jedi, who was killed in a fierce battle, but was so great in life, that his...or her...peers tried to keep them around by preventing death through the force, implanted the brain into a container that hooked up to a cybernetic interface to control the droid body that also gave life to the brain through bacta or some life-giving fluid. It would be just that much more interesting other than the opposite which would be, i.e:

Droid: Well, my history is not an exciting one.

Main Character: 1. If you would rather not share it.
->2. I am very interested to hear your story.
3. Maybe another time then.

Droid: Well, alright. It isn't much of a story. I was born and implanted into this robotic body to keep me alive.

Main Character: ->1. Is that it?
2. Wow, that was short. You are boring.
3. Why did I keep you in my party again?
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Old 06-21-2007, 04:34 PM   #68
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What you suggest would be such a blatant rip off of Grievous it would not even be funny- and Grievous was not a good idea to begin with.

I personally would like to see Canderous, HK-47, and T3-M4 return. Of course, Revan too, but that seems implied.


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Old 06-21-2007, 04:36 PM   #69
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I liked Grievous. But I wouldn't want to see what he suggests either.
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Old 06-21-2007, 05:09 PM   #70
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Good ending and plot are enough for me


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Old 06-21-2007, 09:24 PM   #71
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You are saying that sales of the game mean people like the dice combat in the game, you're placing value on that.
Yet another avoidance response from you...

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Originally Posted by Windu Chi
Ok, Mr or Mrs, or whatever you are; you don't know nothing about what I understand, so you can assume what you want.
I know the world is greedy and corrupt.
You're not informing me with nothing new, RedHawke.
More uneccisary babble...

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Because you enjoy throwing dice to win a fight in a game, that's what is funny to me.
How this has anything to do with my responses to you is beyond me...

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Oh, you got to go calling people names, now.
Huh!

Who is more mature here?
Sorry but WTH? Where do I call you anything directly?

You are quite the questionable one here, not I... your debating skills also are lacking.

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I see you're really piss off with me.
Nothing of the sort... Where do you infer anger with my posts?

Your whole reply's to me are nothing but simple attempts to try and avoid the questions posed to you about your statements. Since you cannot or will not answer them sensibly your credibility takes a nose-dive.

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You know I can get really angry with you now, but forget it.
I'm going to go cool off.
Get angry for me for what? Questioning you?

Now that's comedy.


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Old 06-22-2007, 12:02 AM   #72
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Not to break your roll, Hawke, but I think you can stop debating - He's banned.

I noticed that... but I thought I'd share with the group anyway. -RH

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Old 06-22-2007, 01:02 AM   #73
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Not to break your roll, Hawke, but I think you can stop debating - He's banned.
Isn't it beautiful?

I'm sure, however, that Hawke is very disappointed that his favorite debate buddy is gone, arn't you Hawke?

Kinda! Nothing is Impossible! -RH

As far as adding things to the game... I say update the graphics of the game, add a little more detail to the models as an option, and keep the gameplay and dialog system and continue on. Why fix something that isn't broken?

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Old 06-22-2007, 10:26 AM   #74
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Actually, now that I have reviewed some of the content that MASS EFFECT is going to have, I think the dialog system could do a boosting, with more facial expressions, and some new attack patterns will be good too.


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Old 06-22-2007, 10:48 AM   #75
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Actually, now that I have reviewed some of the content that MASS EFFECT is going to have, I think the dialog system could do a boosting, with more facial expressions, and some new attack patterns will be good too.
I was just going to say that some of the improvements of Mass Effect would be great. But you beat me to it.

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Old 06-22-2007, 11:10 AM   #76
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As far as adding things to the game... I say update the graphics of the game, add a little more detail to the models as an option, and keep the gameplay and dialog system and continue on. Why fix something that isn't broken?
The graphics are most certainly going to improve on some level, if not amazingly, given the generation leap that just took place. Dialog is fine; the only thing I would change about 'gameplay' would be to change equipment so that everything you have on affects the way you look. Making seperate equipment slots for tunics and robes (or armor underlay and overlay) would be nice, but I don't see it happening.

Customizable lightsaber hilts please!

And this isn't necessarily a must, but I wouldn't mind seeing the combat animations going for a little bit longer so that there would never be a pause in the fighting.


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Old 06-22-2007, 11:48 AM   #77
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What you suggest would be such a blatant rip off of Grievous it would not even be funny- and Grievous was not a good idea to begin with.

I personally would like to see Canderous, HK-47, and T3-M4 return. Of course, Revan too, but that seems implied.
Actually, I have studied Grievous a lot these past few weeks. He was an exciting character before he became known as Grievous. He was even married and had children. His tale is an exciting one and I do it no justice, byut what I am suggesting, is only like grievous in the fact that thye were an organic meatbag turned droid to prevent total death. While yes, Grievous was kept alive by Dooku sending force lightinging into his body to keep him from going into cardiac arrest, and yes they used Master Sifo-Dyas' blood in a transfusion for grievous, and yes he did not become Force Sensitive because of that, but overall, he became a terror that was able to hold his own against thousands((hundreds of jedi)), but I am going way OT here so let me just simply say, I want to see a Force Sensitive, Lightsaber wielding droid.
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Old 06-22-2007, 12:42 PM   #78
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Actually, now that I have reviewed some of the content that MASS EFFECT is going to have, I think the dialog system could do a boosting, with more facial expressions, and some new attack patterns will be good too.
Not as important as the plot, but I agree with this. I get tired of seeing those same animations all the time - The "I'm mad" animation where someone pumps their fist at you, or the "I'm scared" animation where the person grabs their head and bobs up and down, or the same death animation over and over again. A little variety would be nice.
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Old 06-22-2007, 01:17 PM   #79
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Yeah, it seems like no matter how I carve them, slice them, shoot them, beat them, or shock them, they always seem to die the same way.
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Old 06-22-2007, 02:21 PM   #80
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I definitively agree with that; Hopefully an engine similar to the one to what's being used on The Force Unleashed to allow great re-play value. That's something that should be worked on: Re-play value. It's hard with an RPG, but it can be done.


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