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Old 05-03-2008, 05:21 PM   #1
mattlambertson
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Bot saber styles

Is there any way to configure specific bots to use specific saber forms/styles? Particularly in order to force them to use dual sabers or saberstaffs.
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Old 05-05-2008, 10:51 AM   #2
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I wish someone would at least tell me its not possible.

If not, a cvar to disable the experience system would be nice...that way the bots would just use whatever saber setup the bot config told them to.

If I could get the bots to use dual sabers, and if the duel mode problem was fixed, this would be the PERFECT mod.

*hopes*
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Old 05-05-2008, 11:44 AM   #3
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hmm, a way to control saberstyles of bots... maybe. I 'm not sure how high priority I would consider this, but maybe if its really easy to do. what do you think daath? Also, haven't we fixed the duel mode iin the newer code?


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Old 05-05-2008, 11:53 AM   #4
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I have tried pretty much every different version of the OJP pk3s that I can find (including the ones in max's sig) and every one still has a problem (excluding .9 versions, of course, but those don't exactly have all the current features).

Sometimes duel mode will allow you get ONE duel in before sending you back to the profile screen and not allowing you to fix anything. I'm pretty sure it has something to do with the experience system because it's resetting all the force powers when it does this. I have a similar problem sometimes in FFA. I'll be killed and then instead of respwaning I'll be kicked back to the profile screen with all my force powers gone. However in FFA mode I am able to re-select the powers and rejoin the game. In Duel mode, it's just stuck because whenever you click on something it flickers to the correct screen and then goes right back to the main profile menu (where it has the 5 options...name, lightsaber, etc, but nothing on the right side of the screen).
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Old 05-05-2008, 09:35 PM   #5
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Well after messing with a whole bunch of cvars I actually seem to have fixed the duel mode problem...at least as of my first test. Now I need to go back and figure out exactly which cvar change is responsible.

Please, though, somebody look into how easy it would be to add that bot saber style option.

Now I am completely at a loss...I went back and changed everything to its pre-fixed state, but duel mode still seems to be working fine.

Last edited by mattlambertson; 05-06-2008 at 07:02 AM.
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Old 05-07-2008, 05:15 AM   #6
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As I've explained before, I'm typically against any further addition to the bot code however small or trivial-seeming. If a person is anywhere near interested in helping OJP they should be looking at features that would help improve game matches with real humans, and lots of humans to boot. All the TABBots do is scare away veteran players and frustrate noobs.

From a veteran's perspective, seeing TABbots on a server means that the server owner is desperate to make it seem like he has players - the veteran will not join to fight bots; he can do this in solo mode too. This is a vicious circle: Admin wants players --> enter the TABBot --> veterans see TABBots and refuse to join --> admin wants players.

It strikes me as odd that anyone would conceive TABbots to be a good incentive for noob players to play the game. Note, I am making a distinction between join the server and play the game. In my opinion, all the TABbots do is instill false hope, which gets violently skewered on Jack Thompson's pencil dick as soon as the noob joins the server and finds out that he has been had. He was tricked. No one likes to be tricked. To make matters worse, the noob will with all certainty not be able to beat the bot neither in a saber duel nor in a gun duel. It's the complex way that OJP was built that prevents them from doing this.

Ergo, my opinion on this is that it would take away from the real point of what we want to do with OJP. Any addition to the bot code, any improvement on playing loner games, solo games or offline; any further construction of the CoOP campaign without any support for team-based combat or a multi-player ruleset would be useless.

That, at least, is my opinion on this matter.

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Old 05-07-2008, 04:52 PM   #7
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Why were TABbots developed in the first place then? Why are they still part of OJP? If aforementioned paragraphs are really your goal, wouldn't eliminating bots from the mod entirely only serve to further that goal? No bots, no more vicious cycle.

Furthermore, isn't the promise of vastly improved bots (definitely listed as one of the features of OJP wherever it appears) equally a source of false hope, if the attitude of the developers towards bots is actually so negative? There are many, many players who don't like online gaming for a multitude of reasons. Speaking as a noob to OJP (though certainly not to the JK community, as I've done some modding and coding in the past, I believe I was even partially responsible for the surge of interest in SP NPCs back in the JK2 era)...but as a noob to OJP, I find it incredibly disappointing that a developer of a mod that features bots as one of its main points would have such a negative attitude towards bots, which are the only real hope of entertainment for someone who doesn't enjoy online gaming.
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Old 05-08-2008, 02:34 AM   #8
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Don't listen to Max, he's just grumpy. I the TABBots.

Anyway, the main reason why the TABBots aren't getting much love is because I've retired from the project and I'm the one who made the TABBots.


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Old 05-08-2008, 07:19 AM   #9
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how hard would it be for an amateur coder like myself to add the feature i'm asking for?
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Old 05-08-2008, 07:41 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattlambertson
Why were TABbots developed in the first place then? Why are they still part of OJP? If aforementioned paragraphs are really your goal, wouldn't eliminating bots from the mod entirely only serve to further that goal? No bots, no more vicious cycle.
Hello mister strawman, thank you for misinterpreting me on purpose!

If you actually read what I said you'll notice that I said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by myself
any further addition
Do you see it? Let me quote it again and I'll mark out the important bits for you:

Quote:
Originally Posted by myself
any further addition
Any further addition, meaning, anything past what we have already. I love your logic of considering a reason to not improve the bots the same as a reason to eliminate the bots. My post was a reply to a question that's been floating around for a long time. My post was not about why we should keep or not keep TABbots. They've been a part of OJP ever since I remember and were created not just to bring in players, but to improve the bots in the first place. Regular bots have no idea how to fight within the OJP saber system. Since OJP was a new mod, new players would have difficulty finding each other and it would thusly make it very hard for OJP to get a playerbase. Now that we actually have proper servers for both Americans and Europeans, there's no longer a need to improve a function of OJP that was designed to suit the off-line player; the bot goal was reached and OJP's future is multiplayer.


Last edited by Maxstate; 05-08-2008 at 07:56 AM.
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Old 05-08-2008, 01:07 PM   #11
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mmmm, before this deevolves into a fight, I think Max is basically saying that we have limited development resources and they need to be focused on other features based on the current situation of the mod.


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Old 05-08-2008, 03:44 PM   #12
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(ready's magic moderation wand)


Game screen name: Master Jon Hoc Ni

UDM Quote: in singapore, gangsters are...skinny jacka**es who think they can 0wn you. they hurl insults at u, and then lose in a fight. n00bs

Last edited by JRHockney*; 05-08-2008 at 04:06 PM.
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Old 05-08-2008, 03:54 PM   #13
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But nobody has actually answered my main question...how hard would it be to do it?

And max, I never misinterpreted you or said your logic was the same as mine. I just carried your logic through to its logical end...if you really don't like that vicious cycle, the easiest way to get rid of it would be to eliminate the bots altogether.

If there were no bots, there'd be nothing to tease me with how amazing they could be with a few simple changes.

Clearly this isn't a very new-person-friendly mod, especially considering I offered to HELP with it.
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Old 05-08-2008, 04:36 PM   #14
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(wizard appears and waves magic wand) abracadabran ....something..da..torum.. make this place the mb2 forums (changes to mb2 forums)

(everyone) Get out of here you stupid noob! You can't have that because we said so! (changes back to ojp forums)

..what?...what happened? oh yeah, wellI don't think it would be all that hard to do at all from what I know of the co, but darth die or razor would know better. But like we said before, we busy focusing on higher priority things right now so we ca get a release out. If I remember, maybe I'll take a look and see how hard it will be to add myself. Im not against bot improvements.


Game screen name: Master Jon Hoc Ni

UDM Quote: in singapore, gangsters are...skinny jacka**es who think they can 0wn you. they hurl insults at u, and then lose in a fight. n00bs
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Old 05-08-2008, 04:41 PM   #15
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well, thank you for not making me feel like a COMPLETE idiot....
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Old 05-08-2008, 05:55 PM   #16
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It would probably be hard for a newbie to do. But..if you know C, you could work it out by learning the parts of the code that make this happen.


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Old 05-08-2008, 06:00 PM   #17
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yeah sorry, that wizard shows up occasionally and causes trouble he usually takes the form of max ROFL! jk max.

anyways, we're just on edge since we're way Way WAY overdue for a public release and we're trying to just get done the stuff we absolutely need to get done. Don't worry, we'll give it some further thought. but no promises that it wll be a feature very soon.


Game screen name: Master Jon Hoc Ni

UDM Quote: in singapore, gangsters are...skinny jacka**es who think they can 0wn you. they hurl insults at u, and then lose in a fight. n00bs
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Old 05-09-2008, 04:53 AM   #18
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I should apologize, years over at the moviebattles forums made me what you see today.

It's just so goddamn strange, bugs keep recurring and returning no matter how often we fix them. Just yesterday Tanq told me the bowcaster drains the entirety of a jedi's DP bar in one or two shots... again. Darth fixed this 3 times over and it's still happening. Cue Darthdie saying it doesn't happen when he plays

Maybe there's something wrong with where we're uploading it or how we are uploading it? Hocks is absolutely right about being way over due, but we have our reasons I guess.

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Old 05-09-2008, 09:30 AM   #19
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May i suggest downloading an earlier version of ojp (.9u i think)? if i recall it does not have the new points allocation system which may be the cause of the bots inabilty to correctly ignite dual/sabertstaff. The only problem with the earlier version is that the block/parry system isn`t as refined as newer releases,but hey! it`s better than nothing i suppose.


I`ve bent my
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Old 05-09-2008, 09:34 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rut-wa jodar
May i suggest downloading an earlier version of ojp (.9u i think)? if i recall it does not have the new points allocation system which may be the cause of the bots inabilty to correctly ignite dual/sabertstaff. The only problem with the earlier version is that the block/parry system isn`t as refined as newer releases,but hey! it`s better than nothing i suppose.
I have tried this. It is better than nothing, but the newest saber system just looks SO amazing that I can just sit there watching bots duel an almost feel like I'm watching a film. So it annoys me that I can't have saberstaffs.
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Old 05-09-2008, 01:16 PM   #21
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Have you tried setting the starting experience points to a high number, like 100?


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Old 05-09-2008, 03:41 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by razorace
Have you tried setting the starting experience points to a high number, like 100?
I have it set at 250 and it doesn't make a difference.
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Old 05-11-2008, 04:04 PM   #23
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I see. Yeah this needs to be bug ticketed. Sounds like the bots aren't using the dual/staff saber styles when they should be.


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Old 05-12-2008, 01:18 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by razorace
I see. Yeah this needs to be bug ticketed. Sounds like the bots aren't using the dual/staff saber styles when they should be.

It was bug ticketed about a year ago.


I`ve bent my
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