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Old 07-14-2008, 09:45 PM   #41
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...even though Juhani was mentally unstable, Yuthura Ban quit the Jedi Order shortly after joining it, and the Exile was a murderous parasite who fed off of other people and sowed destruction wherever she/he went (regardless of alignment).

That makes a lot of damned sense.


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Old 07-14-2008, 10:14 PM   #42
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Juhani suffered great injustices, but was still able to turn back to the light. She was ashamed that she fell, despite all the reasons for her to be angry and hateful. It was because she fell that she would actively keep from falling again.

Yuthura Ban believed anger and hate were what allowed her to escape Sleheyron and kill Omeesh. She quit the order because she had been so dependent on her anger that she believed the jedi were restraining her. She also wanted to use the force to fight slavery. It wasn't until Revan asked 'has anything changed?' that she realized that it wasn't fighting slavery that she wanted. All she wanted was to escape the pain of her memories. (At least that's what I believe)

As for the Exile... she had the force stripped from her and was the scapegoat of Revan's defiance. Despite everything she had been accused of, she never let her anger get the best of her. It was also because she was a leader that she set an example for all who followed her. As Master Vash and ZKE stated... she did the right thing by acting for what she knew was right.
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Old 07-15-2008, 02:42 AM   #43
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You don't get to choose who your PC in K1 is. Your PC is Revan. That's it. Once Malak tells you you're Revan, that's who you are. Problem is, we don't know who Revan was, so there's really not much of an impact if you already know (either because you figured it out or if you've played before).
Not entirely. The same thing happens in K2. You don't get to 'choose' your PC in K2. You are the Exile You learn that from the very beginning. We also really don't know exactly who the Exile is either. In K1 there was no hint that there was "the Exile". In K1 you know that there was Revan, and in K2 you know that there was Revan. We don't know all that much about the Exile in K2 without you choosing who she really is. You get the chance to justifiy why you made the choices that you did. You get to choose your path in both of the games. One just captures that choice a lot better. *cough* K2 *cough*
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Now, take the Exile. We know who the Exile was. She went against the Council to fight the Mandalorians, did some rather terrible things in the war, and wound up losing her connection to the Force, and afterwards was exiled. Who the Exile was is mostly set in stone; there are a few player choices involved, but for the most part the player is told who the Exile was. Like how the player is told they were Revan. Only difference is that we get more info on who the Exile was, and there are more player choices in K2; in K1 the only major choices were light/dark and romance/no romance.
That is also true to an extent. Yes, we know what happened to the Exile, but we also know what happened to Revan.
Show spoiler

And that K2 was the sequal to K1.

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So while Revan is Revan always, and we don't get much info on Revan (not even until K2, presumably after you've played K1), in K2, who the Exile becomes is up to the player. Their pasts are equally set in stone, however, except that we learn about both pasts in K2, and the Exile's has more detail since K2 is more about the Exile than Revan.
As I said, you get to choose your path in both of the games. In one of them you get the chance to justifiy your actions. I do agree that K2 has a lot more detail about the Exile, than K1 did about Revan. But I think that that is because it is a sequal. It will be different. I guess that is the best way that I could explain it.

The thread is alive again.


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Old 07-15-2008, 12:36 PM   #44
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Juhani suffered great injustices, but was still able to turn back to the light. She was ashamed that she fell, despite all the reasons for her to be angry and hateful. It was because she fell that she would actively keep from falling again.

Yuthura Ban believed anger and hate were what allowed her to escape Sleheyron and kill Omeesh. She quit the order because she had been so dependent on her anger that she believed the jedi were restraining her. She also wanted to use the force to fight slavery. It wasn't until Revan asked 'has anything changed?' that she realized that it wasn't fighting slavery that she wanted. All she wanted was to escape the pain of her memories. (At least that's what I believe)

As for the Exile... she had the force stripped from her and was the scapegoat of Revan's defiance. Despite everything she had been accused of, she never let her anger get the best of her. It was also because she was a leader that she set an example for all who followed her. As Master Vash and ZKE stated... she did the right thing by acting for what she knew was right.
I think you are confusing the term "good person" with the term "good Jedi".


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Old 07-15-2008, 12:57 PM   #45
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Revan.



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Old 07-15-2008, 01:13 PM   #46
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Revan.
<snip>
Wow, that was an impressive, well thought out, and brilliantly argued post...




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Old 07-16-2008, 02:30 PM   #47
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Wow, that was an impressive, well thought out, and brilliantly argued post...

QFE.

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Old 07-16-2008, 06:20 PM   #48
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"There is something going on in time and space, and beyond time and space, which, whether we like it or not, spells duty." -Winston Churchill

"For of all sad words of tongue or pen, The saddest are these: 'It might have been!'" -John Whittier

"Apathy is death." -Kreia
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Old 07-16-2008, 06:23 PM   #49
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<snipped awesome picture with equally awesome caption>
Bravo, Good sir, Bravo!






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Old 07-16-2008, 07:51 PM   #50
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[/IMG]
Yup. I like Vader.

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Old 07-16-2008, 09:05 PM   #51
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i ask a question and a big debate comes from it.
and awesome pictures.
>.>


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Old 07-16-2008, 10:36 PM   #52
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*Snip*
So true!
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Old 07-16-2008, 11:38 PM   #53
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Hey, I wasn't bashing vader, that's just a pic I found that I thought was cool and funny. Besides, Bioware had to give Revan some freedom otherwise Kotor obviously wouldn't have been an rpg.
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Old 07-16-2008, 11:41 PM   #54
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Revan, because he actually has a background.
More than the Jedi Exile.


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Old 07-17-2008, 05:47 AM   #55
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Revan, because he actually has a background.
More than the Jedi Exile.
Excuse me? Are you sure it's not because, like many, you won't admit to a love affair with Revan? Let's have a look at background shall we?

Revan: Self righteous pain in a**, who, with his faithful sidekick, baldy, decides to go off and fight a war he has no business in fighting. He wins said war, and just 'somehow' becomes Dark Lord of the Sith.

Dark Lord of the Sith is captured, brainwashed and is all of a sudden a goody two shoes. He puts the beat down on ol' baldy and saves the universe.

Exile: Self righteuous pain in the a** who, on her own, decides to go and join Revan and baldy on their crusade. She has a big argument with Atris in the Temple wash-rooms about commitment. Along the way she kills many, and meets an Iridonian.

She then presses a big red button, and everything goes boom. She's banished, but shows up 5 years later thanks to an old nag and an annoying droid. She then fights 3 Sith Lords, including aforemention old nag. She then rebuilds the Jedi order.

So, actually, they have about the same amount of background.






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Old 07-17-2008, 08:35 AM   #56
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<snip>
To be honest AK; look at the sig - it's going to be a biased comment - Revan fanboyism is as big as it always was.

Personally I think they have a fair ammount of backstory - but a backstory you give them, hence it's hard to debate. I agree with JC though that the Exile is more 'customisable' than Revan. In that we know Revan went evil and Sith Lordy; where as the Exile, is much more the domain of the player as to what happened in his/her past.



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Old 07-17-2008, 12:03 PM   #57
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Yeah the Exile is a lot more customizable, but I like Revan more. The Exile is still cool though.


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Old 07-17-2008, 12:42 PM   #58
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Yeah the Exile is a lot more customizable, but I like Revan more. The Exile is still cool though.
Fair enough It's a personal thing; I think that Revan was the pre-eminent force user of her(/his) era.



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Old 07-17-2008, 03:43 PM   #59
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i prefered Revan, also, because there was always something to do - there was the visions, the mistrust, the hidden identity, and the star maps.
all the exile had was 'yeah i went to war, lost the force, want to kill/help jedi on the council.'

Revan's story had a twist, the Exiles wasnt that extraordinary.


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Old 07-17-2008, 03:53 PM   #60
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the Exiles wasnt that extraordinary.
That may be why I prefer her, then. I don't mind a bit of being Dark Lord of the Sith/Saviour of the Galaxy, but only in small doses, and i've never gotten the fanboyism that Revan attracts.

But now, I think i've realised it's because the exile isn't as important that I like her more. There's not as big a hint of destiny and history that Revan has.






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Old 07-17-2008, 04:50 PM   #61
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Revan, hands down...overall seemed to be a more compelling character to me. The Exile seemed less developed, which is odd since every other party member generally has a lot a depth in K2.
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Old 07-17-2008, 07:45 PM   #62
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That may be why I prefer her, then. I don't mind a bit of being Dark Lord of the Sith/Saviour of the Galaxy, but only in small doses, and i've never gotten the fanboyism that Revan attracts.

But now, I think i've realised it's because the exile isn't as important that I like her more. There's not as big a hint of destiny and history that Revan has.
like i said, it's probably because i played KOTOR2, first.

Revan, also, because you dont know hes this big extraordinary character until it's revealed near the end.

And who ever said Revan has no personality, it's supposed to be you being him/her isn't it?


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Old 07-17-2008, 07:57 PM   #63
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Revan, also, because you dont know hes this big extraordinary character until it's revealed near the end.
My friends told me about the 'twist' before I got to play it. So that could probably have something to do with my dislike of Revan... that I feel betrayed and bitter about it all.






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Old 07-17-2008, 08:00 PM   #64
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My friends told me about the 'twist' before I got to play it. So that could probably have something to do with my dislike of Revan... that I feel betrayed and bitter about it all.
wow, that sux...i mean that's literally the pivotal plot point of the whole game. How many story twists do you get where you find out you used to be the scourge of the galaxy?
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Old 07-18-2008, 05:14 PM   #65
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My friends told me about the 'twist' before I got to play it. So that could probably have something to do with my dislike of Revan... that I feel betrayed and bitter about it all.

oshh gutted. i hate it when people ruin things for me! i never ruin things for anyone else.


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Old 07-18-2008, 05:58 PM   #66
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Revan, hands down...overall seemed to be a more compelling character to me. The Exile seemed less developed, which is odd since every other party member generally has a lot a depth in K2.
I'm not sure we played the same games See I think the K1 party are much more developed than in TSL - but that there is alot more depth to the Exile than Revan



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Old 07-18-2008, 06:00 PM   #67
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I'm not sure we played the same games See I think the K1 party are much more developed than in TSL - but that there is alot more depth to the Exile than Revan
Yeah, TSL doesn't leave you to determine how 'supa powerfull' the Exile is, whereas K1 is often left open to interpretation.






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Old 07-18-2008, 06:01 PM   #68
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I just think TSL wasnt very well developed, over all.


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Old 07-18-2008, 06:43 PM   #69
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I just think TSL wasnt very well developed, over all.
Lies. The ending was wonderful!

(It is actually my favourite game, shame it wasn't finished as I think with M4-78, and the cut content, it would have been truly epic).



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Old 07-18-2008, 06:52 PM   #70
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(It is actually my favourite game, shame it wasn't finished as I think with M4-78, and the cut content, it would have been truly epic).
And it can be, when the modwrights who are forging the fabled 'TSLRP' do unleash it upon the lands...






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Old 07-18-2008, 08:20 PM   #71
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Lies. The ending was wonderful!
*Moans and groans*

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Revan, hands down...overall seemed to be a more compelling character to me. The Exile seemed less developed, which is odd since every other party member generally has a lot a depth in K2.
Define depth. Is it their incomplete backstories? Or maybe their badly written lines?

Frankly, teh companions on K2, IMO, are as shallow as possible. Minimal to no life story at all, they also don't have principles, or so it would seem, as even the righteous Disciple will find himself converted to the Dark Side if the player seems fit.


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Old 07-18-2008, 08:30 PM   #72
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*Moans and groans*


Define depth. Is it their incomplete backstories? Or maybe their badly written lines?

Frankly, teh companions on K2, IMO, are as shallow as possible. Minimal to no life story at all, they also don't have principles, or so it would seem, as even the righteous Disciple will find himself converted to the Dark Side if the player seems fit.

Mira doesn't seem to want to turn to the Dark Side though.


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Old 07-18-2008, 08:47 PM   #73
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Mira doesn't seem to want to turn to the Dark Side though.
Which I find rather strange, considering her looks will change for something more... sinister.


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Old 07-18-2008, 10:24 PM   #74
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they also don't have principles, or so it would seem, as even the righteous Disciple will find himself converted to the Dark Side if the player seems fit.
I'm not sure what this is supposed to say about the quality of their characters. All I see is a textbook example of Dark Side Phobia.

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Minimal to no life story at all
At this point, you're just freaking making stuff up.


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Old 07-19-2008, 12:53 AM   #75
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Frankly, teh companions on K2, IMO, are as shallow as possible. Minimal to no life story at all, they also don't have principles, or so it would seem, as even the righteous Disciple will find himself converted to the Dark Side if the player seems fit.
They just seemed like they had a bit more complexity than the K1 companions, who were fairly 2-dimensional. Not saying that isn't true about some K2 people, but their backstories at least consisted (usually) of more than one single life-altering event (ie Juhani, Carth, Canderous, Zaalbar etc.). I guess i thought their stories were more interesting, even if i thought the characters themselves weren't as good.

Probably the best overall is Jolee though, just cuz he has a sorta checkered past, lol.
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Old 07-19-2008, 05:39 PM   #76
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At this point, you're just freaking making stuff up.
Am I? Are you saying that you didn't noticed that the companions backstories felt incredibly incomplete? I think the best example to illustrate it is Atton. Hmm, interesting, assassins, Sith, torture... hmm, that's it? Already over?

And where's Visas' life tale? "My planet went nova and I became slave to a blabbering proto-sith lord." Yeah, that's it.

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Not saying that isn't true about some K2 people, but their backstories at least consisted (usually) of more than one single life-altering event (ie Juhani, Carth, Canderous, Zaalbar etc.).
On that point you're mostly right, especially when we have Bao-dur in mind. Nevertheless, what I'm saying is that, despite of their stories originality or inspiration, they all seemed - and are - too incomplete.


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Old 07-19-2008, 06:38 PM   #77
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like i said, it's probably because i played KOTOR2, first.
I too played KotOR II first. That might be why I like Revan a little bit more. They both are great characters to tell you the truth.

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I admitt that the characters in K1 had a much better background. I mean, you get to learn about Zaalbar on Kasyykyy (spelled wrong, I know. :/), Mission & her brother, Bastila and her mother, Carth and his son, wife, Saul, ect. Canderous with his war stories, and what not. There, IMO, was a lot more detail, and though, and story to the other characters in K1.

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Old 07-19-2008, 06:42 PM   #78
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I too played KotOR II first. That might be why I like Revan a little bit more. They both are great characters to tell you the truth.

--

I admitt that the characters in K1 had a much better background. I mean, you get to learn about Zaalbar on Kasyykyy (spelled wrong, I know. :/), Mission & her brother, Bastila and her mother, Carth and his son, wife, Saul, ect. Canderous with his war stories, and what not. There, IMO, was a lot more detail, and though, and story to the other characters in K1.
very true!
in K2, they dont really have mcuh of a back story. if they did, the game would be much more enjoyable i think.


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Old 07-19-2008, 08:21 PM   #79
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I thought the difference was that the party members didn't have their own sidequests[ in K2].


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Old 07-19-2008, 10:20 PM   #80
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revan evil that makes him cool =P lol! i wish if you went evil then you could get the power to sevre the force like malak (what he does to visas planet) cause that would be fun =]

i prefer KotOR 1 although i like the way you can influance your crew but like alot o people are saying they didn't really have interesting background stories.
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