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Old 06-29-2008, 12:43 PM   #1
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Arrow Debate:: Fate of “Knights of the Old Republic 3”: MMORPG –or- SPRPG?

Debate:: Fate of “Knights of the Old Republic 3”: MMORPG –or- SPRPG?
Welcome to the fourth installment of our “KotOR III” debate series.

While shirting through the forum, I noticed that we really didn’t have this debate. If you have been following the BioWare and LucasArts announcements, you will notice some interesting press releases. On the BioWare.com site, you will notice two separate announcements. Under the BioWare Games menu, two different separate statements were released.

Quote:
Originally Posted by http://www.bioware.com/bioware_info/press_releases/2006_03_15_Austin

BioWare Corp. Announces New "BioWare Austin" Studio
New Studio Recruiting for Massively Multiplayer Online RPG Project
EDMONTON, Alberta, Canada, March 13, 2006

Canadian videogame developer BioWare Corp. has announced the opening of a new studio, BioWare Austin, based in Austin, Texas. It is the second of BioWare's studios and the first to be located outside of Canada.
BioWare Austin has already begun work on a Massively Multiplayer Online roleplaying game (MMORPG) title; the new game will mark BioWare's debut in the Massively Multiplayer Online space. BioWare has recruited some of the top talent in MMO and RPG development, both to manage the development efforts at BioWare Austin and to collaborate with the experienced team at BioWare Edmonton, to develop a game that combines the best of BioWare's great past games with a compelling persistent online experience. Joining the Austin team as lead designer is James Ohlen, BioWare's Creative Director, whose previous credits include lead or co-lead design roles on Star Wars®: Knights of the Old Republic™, Neverwinter Nights™, Baldur's Gate™ and Baldur's Gate II™. Also leading the BWA team are MMO veterans Richard Vogel and Gordon Walton. Richard Vogel brings 15 years of experience to BioWare Austin, previously serving as VP of Product Development for Sony Online Entertainment's Austin studio, as well as launching Ultima Online™ as a senior producer at Origin. Gordon Walton recently served as VP, studio manager and executive producer at Sony Online Entertainment as well as VP and Executive Producer at Electronic Arts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by http://www.lucasartsbioware.com

Lucasarts and Bioware To Develop Ground-Breaking Interactive Entertainment Product
SAN FRANCISCO, CA and EDMONTON, CANADA — October 30, 2007

LucasArts and BioWare today announced that they have entered into an agreement to create an interactive entertainment product. The product, details of which will be unveiled at a later date, will be developed and published by BioWare and LucasArts, and will push the boundaries of the gaming market by utilizing the strengths of both companies to deliver an innovative, high-quality experience.

“LucasArts has a deep commitment to developing compelling stories and characters for the unique medium of interactive entertainment, and we have been searching for a developer that shares this value. We found this in BioWare,” said Jim Ward, president of LucasArts. “Through our previous collaborations, we know that BioWare has an impressive ability to blend gripping stories with technological advancements, and we believe that our upcoming product will deliver an experience that will span the traditional boundaries of video game entertainment.”
Some have speculated that both are related, and others have argued in contradiction. If “Knights of the Old Republic” does have a sequel, the game will most likely take the form of a SPRG. In order to be considered a true sequel, the game would have to be designed for a single player. If the game is turned into a MMORPG, the next KotOR will not be a sequel. As a result of changing the game design, there will be a profound difference in game play and storyline. While playing a single player game, you are made to feel important some how. At a certain level of logic, the player is central to the events unfolding. Could the “Knights of the Old Republic” be turned into a MMORPG? Yes. Will changing the style of the game into a MMORPG affect it being a sequel? I believe it will. If the game is turned into a MMORPG, we will still have to wait for a sequel to the series. I compare it to writing novels. Imagine if you read two Star Wars novels, and the third and final installment was in game form. As you read through the series in novel form, you would be upset to learn the final events in another form of media. What do you think?

What other evidence do we have on the fate of “Knights of the Old Republic 3” being turned into a MMORPG? What are your arguments on this specific issue?



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Old 06-29-2008, 03:04 PM   #2
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If anyone asks me, the MMORPG KOTOR 3 is a myth. This is my theory of how it happened:

1. Date is unknown, but it's some time after KOTOR 2 has come out. Random people across the internet start making wishlists, which they bring up anywhere they can on the Internet whenever the context of whatever discussion they are in would allow it. The party in question's wishlist includes KOTOR 3, because virtually everyone wants a KOTOR 3, so obviously the origin of the KOTOR 3 wish came from virtually all KOTOR players, collectively. The wish of KOTOR 3 spreads simultaneously with the circulation of rumors of a Star Wars: Galaxies 2.

The idea of Star Wars: Galaxies 2 most likely came from a rumor created sometime in the past by a separate party which predicted that Lucasarts would shove a second SWG onto store shelves as a result of the terrible failures of the first one. This SWG2 assumption was flawed because both Sony Online £ntertainment and Lucasarts have for the past several years been completely oblivious to SWG's rapid descent into MMORPG hell, so there's no reason they would bother with another MMORPG. Regardless, the SWG2 rumors circulate.

2. Over time, a bunch of random peoples' wishes turn into rumors, and rumors travel faster than wishes.

3. Eventually, a gaming magazine or magazine's website publishes an article which claims that LA is working on a KOTOR 3, LA is having Bioware work on a KOTOR 3, they're having Obsidian work on KOTOR 3, or some other such thing. Simultaneously, an article or two pops up with the same sort of lies, except they're claiming that there's a SWG2 on the way. Why did these articles even exist? Because random stuff that people said they wanted turned into rumors, and rumors eventually changed more and more as they reached other peoples' ears and the people started changing what they heard into what they chose to hear. Other websites eventually begin to repeat the rumors, sometimes with their own spin on it.

KOTOR 3 MMO is one of those spins.

4. Interestingly, this phenomenon appears to be a product of the Chaos theory: that an incredibly small and seemingly insignificant occurrence can have a profound effect in an open environment. That's what happened here: wishlists began popping up, and they eventually snowballed into rumors which changed as time went on, and the rumor of the KOTOR MMO is the result of two of the rumors blending together: namely, the KOTOR 3 rumor and the SWG2 rumor. Once these rumors started circulating, people saw them and spread them further, and although many of them were eventually demonstrated to be wrong, they continue to circulate, each new time often with a slight difference from the last. People see the older rumors, which are over a year old, and bring them up again, usually ignoring how dated they are. Other people later see the new rumors, et cetera. The cycle continues and will continue until Lucasarts puts a permanent, official cap on the KOTOR 3 myth. The way I see it, the statements at both bioware.com and lucasartsbioware.com are just coincidences, and as the above paragraphs showed, people decide to blend unrelated rumors, which in the beginning started as wishlists and other things which were misinterpreted and eventually became something completely different.

Bottom line: The KOTOR 3 MMO myth came about when KOTOR 3 rumors and SWG2 rumors, both of which had been misinterpreted, reprinted, and repeated numerous times, were blurred together.


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Old 06-29-2008, 06:01 PM   #3
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Bottom line: The KOTOR 3 MMO myth came about when KOTOR 3 rumors and SWG2 rumors, both of which had been misinterpreted, reprinted, and repeated numerous times, were blurred together.
I certainly hope so. :/

I would much rather KotOR III be a SPRPG than an MMORPG. I mean, I think that it is just essential that LA makes it into a SPRPG. That is my opinion though. I think that KotOR definately wouldn't be KotOR anymore if it was turned into a MMO. It would break my heart. Seriously...

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Old 06-29-2008, 06:18 PM   #4
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Quote:
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I would much rather KotOR III be a SPRPG than an MMORPG. I mean, I think that it is just essential that LA makes it into a SPRPG. That is my opinion though. I think that KotOR definately wouldn't be KotOR anymore if it was turned into a MMO. It would break my heart. Seriously...
I agree.

For it to be KOTOR, it needs to be single player. If it isn't, then it isn't KOTOR. Simple as that. There's no room for immersive, expansive plots in MMORPGs, just grinding and other monotonous activities.

I wouldn't be opposed to a separate MMORPG set in the KOTOR era, a sort of 'Galaxies of the Old Republic', for those that really feel that that's the direction for KOTOR to go *shudder*, but I wouldn't buy it, or play it.






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Old 06-29-2008, 06:22 PM   #5
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I agree.

For it to be KOTOR, it needs to be single player. If it isn't, then it isn't KOTOR. Simple as that. There's no room for immersive, expansive plots in MMORPGs, just grinding and other monotonous activities.

I wouldn't be opposed to a separate MMORPG set in the KOTOR era, a sort of 'Galaxies of the Old Republic', for those that really feel that that's the direction for KOTOR to go *shudder*, but I wouldn't buy it, or play it.
I am glad that someone agrees with me. Oh, and I agree with you.

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Old 06-29-2008, 07:20 PM   #6
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There is too much money to be made from it for them to just turn away from KOTOR III.

I bet they will announce it sometime after TFU comes out.
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Old 06-29-2008, 07:20 PM   #7
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I agree that the KotOR MMORPG seems completely ridiculous and highly unlikely. However, I don't think the myth is entirely due to people just wishlisting it- Lucasarts hinted before that they wouldn't leave KotOR behind. I think everyone has simply been so eager to see KotOR III, that every time a new game pops up in development, people think it is KotOR III. This MMORPG theory is just the latest flavor.


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Old 06-29-2008, 07:21 PM   #8
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I bet they will announce it sometime after TFU comes out.
That's what I've been saying for a while. Simply because they want Force Unleashed hype to be crazy, they won't split people's attention between that and KotOR III.


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Old 06-29-2008, 10:04 PM   #9
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TFU is all hyped up. But there they keep announcing things making peoples attention slip away: No multiplayer on PS3, 360.

MMO is as TKA stated is probably as myth. I dont think even LA is that stupid to make a KOTOR MMO. I have hopes high (probably will be crushed) Kotor 3 might be announced at Celebration Japan, on July 21st or the next E3 on the 15th. Got my fingers crossed

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Old 06-30-2008, 07:17 AM   #10
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Well, I think KotOR will be announced after the release of TFU, but not immediately.
If they would announce it immediately after the TFU release, some people won't buy TFU, so they can buy KotOR III, cauze, ya know, not every SW fanatic has at least a moderate social status, some people must make economies ...


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Old 07-08-2008, 09:19 PM   #11
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The Kotor MMO is a separate project made by Bioware while the Kotor 3 is probably also being made by Bioware as we speak.

The Project Lucasarts and Bioware have that could be Kotor and the MMO is probably a another game that only takes place in the Kotor universe.

Though i only hope that Kotor 3 comes out first then the MMO.


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Old 07-08-2008, 11:42 PM   #12
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Personally, I'd hate to see an MMO. It'd just make the KotOR series a money generating machine that has no plot and not really KotOR at all. Plus all the 56K'ers like me would be stuck without it. Not to even mention the monthly fees...

But anyway, I want KotOR III!

Oh, another thought. The longer that LA waits to come out with it, the more people will want it. It may be a wise move in waiting so long after the original.



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Old 07-09-2008, 02:24 AM   #13
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Well Revan411 may be right, ya know...
IMO, Bioware did a better job then Obsidian.
Actually, Obsidian only improved some graphics, changed the interface, added some new features. The rest of the game is K1, when it comes to the tech part of the game...
TBH I expected vast improvements in TSL. When I played the game, I was a lill disappointed.
Well, that's just me, but IMO Bioware did a better job then Obsidian and if Bioware is really making a k3, then LA is a smal amount of a *lill* smarter then I thought.


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Old 07-09-2008, 10:51 AM   #14
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My idea of what they would make should it be KOTOR MMO would be the war involving Revan and the Exile where you play a character on the Republic side doing various missions against the enemy. But I seriously don't think its a sequel or related to anything, I think it's going to be original and really big, MMO or not.


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Old 07-17-2008, 04:42 PM   #15
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http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3168871

Is this official confirmation by EA?
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Old 07-17-2008, 04:45 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by darthclydefrog View Post
http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3168871

Is this official confirmation by EA?
it's not official until EA/Bioware/Lucasarts puts out a press release.
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Old 07-17-2008, 04:51 PM   #17
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I agree, but EA does own bio-ware, and he might of let something slip. He is the CEO of EA. You'd think he knows what he's talking about. IGN also feels it is not quite official yet.

http://pc.ign.com/articles/891/891718p1.html

Maybe a press release is coming, look at this story right here

http://kotaku.com/5024529/lucasfilm-...ic-its-new-mmo
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Old 07-17-2008, 04:54 PM   #18
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I sure hope this MMO is NOT KOTOR 3... I still have hope that there will be a K3. Remember, its says "based on the popular Knights of the Old Republic franchise".
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Old 07-17-2008, 04:56 PM   #19
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Here is another source regarding EA CEO "confirming" new KOTOR title. I particularly like the part where he says "EA is working on the next version of Star Wars game Knights of the Old Republic, and it will most certainly have a massively multi player online component to it."

http://www.portfolio.com/views/blogs...e-old-republic
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Old 07-17-2008, 05:02 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by darthclydefrog View Post
Here is another source regarding EA CEO "confirming" new KOTOR title. I particularly like the part where he says "EA is working on the next version of Star Wars game Knights of the Old Republic, and it will most certainly have a massively multi player online component to it."

http://www.portfolio.com/views/blogs...e-old-republic


You LIKE it? WHY! If there is an MMO component, which means that it will be MULTIPLAYER, than it will suck big time.
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Old 07-17-2008, 05:04 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darthclydefrog View Post
Here is another source regarding EA CEO "confirming" new KOTOR title. I particularly like the part where he says "EA is working on the next version of Star Wars game Knights of the Old Republic, and it will most certainly have a massively multi player online component to it."

http://www.portfolio.com/views/blogs...e-old-republic
the fact that he says it will have a 'MMO online component to it" gives me hope that it's not a full blown traditional MMO.
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Old 07-17-2008, 05:06 PM   #22
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the fact that he says it will have a 'MMO online component to it" gives me hope that it's not a full blown traditional MMO.
exactly. that's the one reason i haven't gone to the White House to find the button for the nuclear missiles. :P
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Old 07-17-2008, 05:08 PM   #23
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The part of that statement that intrigues me is "online component" Maybe there is a SPRPG component resolving the story ala Phantasy Star. Which leads into an epic MMORPG set in the KOTOR universe.... As long as it was all polished and not just a token single player I would be satisfied. I hope they do something like Guild Wars instead of monthly fees though.
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Old 07-17-2008, 05:11 PM   #24
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Wow, I guess y'all agree.
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Old 07-17-2008, 05:15 PM   #25
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As long as it isnt like those MMOs that you start with nothing and do quests to get equipment and experience and gain levels, and where they introduce more and more expansions where you have to do the same thing over and over... then it might not be so bad after all. I just hope they find a way to resolve the storyline.
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Old 07-17-2008, 05:19 PM   #26
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Yeah it would be kinda lame if it didn't at least set it up for a future KOTOR sequel resolving the Revan/Exile story line.
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Old 07-17-2008, 05:33 PM   #27
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As we speak gamespot live feed is discussing this very topic....

http://e3.gamespot.com/live.html?tag...om_clk=topslot
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Old 07-17-2008, 05:34 PM   #28
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lame, now it is halo wars
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Old 07-17-2008, 05:36 PM   #29
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Damn I missed it... what did they say?
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Old 07-17-2008, 05:37 PM   #30
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Damn I missed it... what did they say?
officially confirmed KotOR MMO, no real info aside from that.
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Old 09-26-2008, 02:05 AM   #31
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man, i soooooo hope hope hope HOPE that it WONT be an mmo!!
ive been hoping that ever since i heard the rumor.

"daer God, please let it be SPRPG. it would be so lame otherwise. please?"
i wonder if there has been an actual poll on lf? i just joined.
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Old 09-26-2008, 11:43 AM   #32
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Uh, yeah! I've been saying this for months now: the MMO is not to be confused with KOTOR III.


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Old 09-26-2008, 07:59 PM   #33
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Correct. The MMO is not KOTOR III; its sort of a spinoff MMO.


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Old 09-27-2008, 03:37 AM   #34
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Old 09-27-2008, 04:42 AM   #35
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Well, that's good. Not that I really care about KotoR 3 or KotoR MMO either way, I'm not invested in any way in the KotoR series. To be honest, the longer I go, the more I have a sense of 'Who cares' regarding the continuation of KotoR. Probably because of the moneydrive that was the core of TSL's development, from start to finish.
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Old 09-27-2008, 10:50 AM   #36
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Umm.. It's been confirmed that the KotOR series will become an MMO (Massively Multiplayer Online) in the third installment. Whether people will be able to drop in/out (Fable 2 style) or a choice to go single or multi is still unknown, but I think it would work out perfectly.
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Old 09-27-2008, 01:07 PM   #37
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This was written by a moderator over at the Lucasarts forums.

It doesn't appear that this new Star Wars MMORPG is being positioned as KotOR 3. We don't know for sure yet since the game isn't officially announced but it seems that this new MMORPG will be called Star Wars: The Old Republic or something along those lines.

I wouldn't really mind if K3 was an MMO, but I'll be happy with it single-player.


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Old 09-27-2008, 01:25 PM   #38
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Before I start spouting off like many others, I'm just making it known that I have NO direct knowledge about MMO's and don't believe any of the rumors I come across for KOTOR III development. I simply have the ability to piece together certain ideas from CONFIRMED sources.

I can see both fates for KOTOR III either dying or being imminent for the future. Since the first installment was such a success and the second simply had its potential cut short, there is definitely much profit to be made from the franchise. Unfortunately, the second KOTOR's quality may have killed the potential for a third because it had a significant influence on the fanbase. If the game was simply complete, then this wouldn't have had such an impact on the future for the program.

On the other hand, the second game did leave the game on a cliffhanger where the original pretty much was wrapped up at the end. If the second's deficiencies were not as significant as the fan's anticipation for the third, then it could be that Lucas Arts simply wanted to explore other ideas... knowing that the KOTOR fanbase was stable enough to be left alone for a while.

The fate of the game can go either way at this point. The fanbase has been weakening the longer the development has been put on hold. If the game isn't started soon, the profitability will be increasingly diminished because the fanbase weakens the longer they wait.

If they do start the third at this point, they need to do something radically different than the first two... maybe using the engine of TFU would reinvigorate the fanbase with a leap in gameplay to compensate for the disappointment of the last one.
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Old 09-27-2008, 03:33 PM   #39
SW01
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I agree with what D_Y said.

Also, I think that, while the whole idea of the Old Republic MMO sounds interesting, as there are certain appeals such as options to play as something other than a jedi or dark jedi (maybe even a full-blown Sith), and something the depth of Galaxies, I am still not convinced on paying full price for a game then having to pay for the pleasure of using it every month.

If its production is inevitable, or already in the works, I firmly hope that the cliffhanger of TSL is left well alone, and that it is set in the Mandalorian Wars or the early Jedi Civil War - I for one would prefer to explore a continued story in my own time, at my own pace, and not be rushed by the constraints of play credit, or the wishes or, indeed, absence of other players.

Also, for me modding is what makes the first two so replayable. From what I understand, it will not be possible, or it will at least be much more difficult, in an MMO format. So, I am encouraged by the rumour, for that is all that it truly is, that the MMO will be separate from KotOR III. Both on their own sound interesting - mixing them sounds like a disaster-in-waiting.


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Old 09-27-2008, 05:00 PM   #40
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I am starting to believe that there won't be a KotOR III....

It has just been so long, and nothing has been confirmed...

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