Maul, sith lightning?

[Kurgan]

Originally Posted by noizer

i prefer to think that he couldnt use it since he was more swordsman then a real force wielder.

People say that a lot, but he actually uses the force more than his two Jedi opponents in that battle (and nobody says they "were more swordsmen than real force wielders").

The trouble is that the EU basically established (long before this movie) that "Force Lightning" (nobody ever called it "Sith Lightning" until the prequel era, iirc) was a standard power that anybody could use, even if it were a "upper level" power. The Force was standardized. Sure, it started to show somebody was "whoa a powerful threat" but then everyone had it.

Suddenly Episode I comes up and nobody has it, oh wait, now Dooku has it, but he only uses one hand, oops, now Yoda can use it, sorta, etc.

I guess we're given too few examples of actual Force combat to really know how widespread this power is. Yoda and Obi-Wan seemed pretty competent combating it (and in Yoda's case even using it, though people are going to argue with me and say "well he only DEFLECTED and ABSORBED it," because they think it's eeeevil and Yoda "would never" use it, but whatever), even though supposedly this is a "Sith power" (never stated in the movie, but assumed outside of it since the movie came out) and nobody has fought a Sith in 1,000 years...

Which raises the other question of how Maul and Sideous got so powerful if all they ever had was each other to train with... It almost makes me wonder if in the Star Wars universe lightsaber skill isn't really learned, but thought to be some kind of innate ability, like instant knowledge from the Force or something that increases with power level? (sounds crazy right? no crazier than the other stuff we're given)

I think a lot of people treat Force users like Dragonball Z characters, and I guess I am too here. The games throw it all into confusion.

The idea that if Maul had it, he'd have used it, is a hard one to make, since a lot of Force powers are not used during duels (in fact, some of the usage first in Episode I and then here was a bit of a shock to a lot of folks, because they'd built up this belief over the years that you simple couldn't use such powers during a battle either because of some unspoken code of honor or that the concentration was so high that they couldn't do that, or else their powers always canceled each other out). But then we see quite clearly that lightning is used during a fight (or at least between fights). So who knows.

We can look back now and try to quantify it all, but to me, it seems that Lucas was just being stylistic... the Jedi and Sith get or lose ("forget to use") powers based on the needs of the entertainment for the moment, much like comic book super heroes.

[Visas]

He's more about the lightsabre than the force.

[PoiuyWired]

Stylistic is dfinitely one thing when it coems to movie. But combat style and training is also another. Just because you *know* how to do something doesn't mean you have the ability to fluently use it effectively in the heat of battle. And, as we know it, Maul seems to be mostly facing 2 enemies rather than one. You fall back to the most trusted skills you know best. Maul is more melee oriented (yes he can use a blaster too, on top of other force powers), Dooku is just skilled at dueling, and Sidius is Force Power.

Its like saying, why don't they force throw a bunch of things all the time? Why don't they saber throw multiple sabers? why don't they just force grip/choke each other from start? why don't they... its a matter of combat style... that, and obviously some things are difficult/impractical/dangerous to perform during heated battle (*you do not see me in front of you...*... Oops! ...now... where did my hand go...)

Technically you can have someone dual-wielding 2 double-sabers, with an extra one in his mouth, then a dozen or so vibro shuriken floating around him with force power, then floating up some rapid firing blasters(or hack, gun turrets, size matter not!) all the while floating mid air surrounding himself with a continuous force malestorm and shooting force lightning out of his toes...

[Kurgan]

Not quite. Watch the duels portrayed in the movies... Dooku uses the force a lot before, DURING and after his saber battles (all of which he wins, incidentally other than his final battle with Anakin).

Sideous as well uses a saber well enough in Episode III, beating three Jedi before the fourth overwhelms him (when all three attacked at once). He also scares Yoda so badly that Yoda runs away (despite the fight being more or less an even match).

I'll grant you that the cinematography of the fight Sideous has with Mace Windu's three accomplices is pretty poor. I guess most of it comes from the fact that Lucas threw it together at the last minute (Ian McDiarmond admits in the Episode III bonus material that he hadn't been given much fight training and most of his dueling was done with CGI and editing late in production of the final prequel).

You'll notice that Maul uses the Force during his fights, so there's no rule against using it, and it's not as if he couldn't.

I think it's clear that Lucas was making it up as he went along. He didn't "invent" Force lightning until after Empire Strikes Back (the closest thing to it is a big blue-white ball of energy that Vader throws and Luke sends flying back at him in "Splinter of the Mind's Eye" written by Alan Dean Foster in 1979, which is based on some rejected ideas for a "cheap sequel" if Star Wars had not been the huge hit that it was... all this was shelved in favor of what we saw in ESB). And we had no idea really who could and couldn't use Lightning all those years. The EU speculated that it was just a power you got after you became powerful enough (most Star Wars games for example let not only bad guys but also good guys use this power when they get strong enough in the Force; the Episode I: TPM game on PSX and PC gave Maul red lightning for example). Later some of the games decided it was ONLY for Dark Siders (Dark Jedi and Sith).

Episode II threw us for a loop by giving it to Dooku (and inexplicably Obi-Wan and Yoda knew how to defeat it... was there some ancient manual on fighting Sith in the Jedi archives that they'd read but Anakin hadn't?).

Another "shock" to many people was that Yoda and Palpatine used lightsabers, because up to this point a lot of fans speculated that once you got powerful enough in the force you didn't use them (or they took Yoda's words in ESB to be literal, that he was some kind of pacifist... though it was odd that he was training Luke to assassinate the two leaders of the Empire). Some of the EU told us that both of these guys used lightsabers, but again, force lightning was never clear.

So as to why Maul never used it, is still pure speculation, just like why Vader never used it. There are answers sure, but they're contradictory. The movies really don't tell us, and leave it an open question.

Essentially it seems like Force powers are inconsistent, and are completely dependent upon the writers' whim.

So I guess Maul didn't assign the force points on his profile during that spawn, or he was out of mana at the time.

[adamqd]

Originally Posted by Kurgan

So I guess Maul didn't assign the force points on his profile during that spawn, or he was out of mana at the time.

QFT hehe

But yea, as Kurg says, Lucas makes it up as he goes along to a degree, and probably forgot about Force lightning until the making of AOTC, But I see Maul as a Lightsaber Specialist anyway, and a Padawan and Knight, who hadn't faced Sith before would hardly warrant the full bag of Tricks... or so Maul Thought

[Jeff]

Originally Posted by Kurgan

So I guess Maul didn't assign the force points on his profile during that spawn, or he was out of mana at the time.

I like this explanation best.

[Kurgan]

And let's not forget the additional shock (that people are still tripping over themselves to explain away) that Yoda, after "absorbing" lightning from Dooku, throws a bolt of lightning right back in his face.

What was all that talk about "NEVER" using the Force "for attack"? I guess Yoda radically changed his philosophy of the Jedi rules in those 20 years on Dagobah, eh?

[TKA-001]

Dooku shot first. The first four times, in fact.

[GeneralPloKoon]

Maul is way too awesome for lightning!

[Kurgan]

Originally Posted by TKA-001

Dooku shot first. The first four times, in fact.

Yeah, but Yoda doesn't say "Jedi can use the force for attack, so long as their enemy takes the first swing!"

Anyway, Yoda threw lightning, that's in the movie. But people are like "no, he couldn't have, because that's a Dark Side only power!"

That's what I meant.

[purifier]

Originally Posted by Kurgan

Anyway, Yoda threw lightning, that's in the movie. But people are like "no, he couldn't have, because that's a Dark Side only power!"

That's what I meant.

I thought he was blocking and reflecting it back at Dooku by his on hand when Dooku shot at Yoda with it. Kinda like when Mace Windu reflected the Emporer's own lighting back at him, with his lightsabre.



Or am I thinking of another encounter that Yoda had with someone else?

[Kurgan]

Watch the scene again. He does that little glowy thing in his hand for awhile where Dooku's blast hits his hand and does nothing. Then he pushes his hand forward and throws lightning in Dooku's face. Dooku BLOCKS it with his hand and sends it into the ceiling where it explodes in flames.

That's the only time in any of the movies where we see anything like it. It isn't even the same as the scene where in that stalemate with Palpatine in Episode III.

Somebody once suggested that here Yoda isn't using the same hand gesture as Dooku, so he must not "really" be throwing it, but if you watch Episode III and ROTJ you see that there is no single universal hand gesture for "lightning" (just like there isn't one for any other Force ability used in more than one movie, and sometimes they use the force without any gestures, though lightning always appears to come forth from a hand somehow).

[purifier]

Originally Posted by Kurgan

Watch the scene again. He does that little glowy thing in his hand for awhile where Dooku's blast hits his hand and does nothing. Then he pushes his hand forward and throws lightning in Dooku's face. Dooku BLOCKS it with his hand and sends it into the ceiling where it explodes in flames.

Okay......I see what your saying. Hmmm.....never noticed that before until you brought it to light.

Lol. Learn something new everyday.

[Anakin_Xisali]

This is entirely EU, but in the Yuuzhan Vong War, after Anakin Solo dies, his sister gets so angry she just magically uses Force lightening at an attempt to fry the warriors in a adjoining hallway. She didn't learn it, it just came to her and she let loose.

[Antares Navaar]

Don't quote me on this, but I believe the reason Darth Maul /didn't/ use much of the force at all, outwardly (push, lightning, grip, etc) was because he was using it to enhance his speed and agility, to put more into his combat.

[Silent Descent]

He is more of a swordsman than force user.

[forty73]

well, I was not able to read the full story but I knew that Darth Maul is just a swordsman.