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Old 11-10-2008, 09:41 AM   #1
SD Nihil
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This is frightening

I saw a youtube audio where Obama is talking about working with Russia to disarm our ICBMs, wants to take our early warning system off hair trigger alert, and cut funding for these types of defense systems. He wants a world without nuclear weapons. It would be great if no one had nukes in the world, but I doubt Russia nad other countries would just do that. And if we disarm first what's to stop other countries from seeing that as an oppertunity to wipe us out off the map. I don't want to die a nuclear death. I know we won't fire ours unless someone did to us. And if no one had nukes what's to stop someone from making new ones. If then someone had them and no one else did they'd have a gun pointed at the world in a sense.

I believe the only reason why we have our nukes and missile sheild pointed at Russia is because they have them and we want to prevent WWIII nuclear war.

Anyway, here's the audio: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8TWPchxgio


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Old 11-10-2008, 02:09 PM   #2
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he's a sleeper agent for al qaeda!!!!!!!


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Old 11-10-2008, 02:41 PM   #3
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i for one am horrified that obama wants the us and russia to disarm the weapons that could render the earth uninhabitable if we fire even a fraction of our nuclear arsenals i mean what kind of long term goal is that nuclear weapons our a corner stone of are american democrasee.

also missile defense systems will just raise tensions between the us and russia and force russia to come up with new weapons to bypass our missile defense system (which probably wouldn't work anyway) in addition to taking the idea of nuclear war from the "if i'm going down you are too *******" table and put it on the "hmm yeah why not" table since it could technically be "winnable" if the us has some sort of missile defense regardless of its viability. tl;dr: tell me why funding a missile defense system is doing anything but parking wheelbarrows full of money into the offices of boeing and whatever other aerospace defense contractors (i stole this line from some sa poster i forget the name of because it's awesome possum).

also your theory that all the other countries will gang up on the us at recess is a horrible idea, the us' defense budget dwarfs that of every other country on the map because of our military-industrial complex and obsession with how awesome guns and the 2nd amendment are and since bigger = better larger death counts = better. and you can't beat the death count of a nuclear exchange because hurr hurr it will most likely kill off every form of life on the planet between the initial blasts, fallout, and nuclear winter.

your assertion that the us wouldn't fire nuclear weapons is just flat out wrong, during the cold war, both the us and the ussr tried for years to find ways of bombing the **** out of one another without getting bombed the **** out of in retaliation. to name an example where the us nearly deployed nuclear weapons, look at the cuban missile crisis, we nearly bombed cuba as a preemptive strike against the ussr. for an example of where the us did nuke another country without being fired upon by nuclear weapons, japan.

finally, to address your point about other countries manufacturing new nuclear weapons and that being a gun pointing at the rest of the world, the us did that exact same thing. and countries manufacturing new nuclear weapons would obviously have to be prevented via diplomacy or if necessary, by force.

@rogue15- i'd love to see you make a post about how obama is somehow violating your upscale lifestyle that doesnt make you look like some 12 year old mongoloid tia



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Old 11-10-2008, 02:57 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by SD Nihil View Post
I saw a youtube audio where Obama is talking about working with Russia to disarm our ICBMs, wants to take our early warning system off hair trigger alert, and cut funding for these types of defense systems. He wants a world without nuclear weapons. It would be great if no one had nukes in the world, but I doubt Russia nad other countries would just do that. And if we disarm first what's to stop other countries from seeing that as an oppertunity to wipe us out off the map. I don't want to die a nuclear death. I know we won't fire ours unless someone did to us. And if no one had nukes what's to stop someone from making new ones. If then someone had them and no one else did they'd have a gun pointed at the world in a sense.

I believe the only reason why we have our nukes and missile sheild pointed at Russia is because they have them and we want to prevent WWIII nuclear war.

Anyway, here's the audio: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8TWPchxgio
Looks like a variation of the prisoner's dilemma to me.

Here's what we don't want: Nuclear war, nuclear weapons.
Now, the dominant strategy appears to be to retain nuclear weapons. We can't get rid of them because other countries might blast us then, right?

Well, if that is what everyone thinks then no one is going to give up nuclear weapons. You know what's not going to happen? Other countries disarming and the US gets to retain their nuclear weapons.

Good thing Obama doesn't think that way.
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Old 11-10-2008, 03:30 PM   #5
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No. If we disarm first people like Russia will use that chance to wipe us off the map. And that won't kill everyone on the planet if everyone is fireing at us. And if Obama believes it when Russia says they'll disarm he's wrong. Russia lies. They've not pulled out of Georgia. They lie. We can't trust them.

If we disarm all that will happen is we die and they live because we'll have no nukes to fire at them. They will have nukes and then we don't exist. Russia is untrustworthy. You know I will never care that people think we're just an evil bad nation that seeks to conquer everyone. We are a nation that goes to war only to spread freedom, end tyrany, oppression, and we've given more lives, money, and aid than any one country in the world. And yet they all hate us. I can't believe and I won't belive for a second that other countries wouldn't use it as an opportunity to blow us up if they had nukes and we didn't.

We are not the aggressors. We are not the conquers like Russia would would love to re conquer their former territories. I really don't care that countries hate us. Great we don't like you jerks either who I know would love for us not to exist and if they had a chance to end us they would. For all the good we've done they are jelous and whiny. Well when their is no America you'll have no one to run to for help or compain about except those conquers we tried to protect you from.

Russia was the one wanting to fire the nukes on us. The cold war and Cuba missile crisis we wanted them to stop because if one country fires yes we'd do everything in our power to protect us. But we were not the one who starts the aggressive move. We won't simply fire a nuke at someone one day. If the talbes were turned and Russia had no nukes, but we did we'd not use them because we are not Russia. We wouldn't fire it at all. And if they atacked one of our allies we won't fire them. It is supposed to be a last resort hope to never use them prevent others from using one tpe of weapon.


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Old 11-10-2008, 03:41 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by SD Nihil View Post
I saw a youtube audio where Obama is talking about working with Russia to disarm our ICBMs, wants to take our early warning system off hair trigger alert, and cut funding for these types of defense systems. He wants a world without nuclear weapons.
I want a world without nuclear weapons too. Nuclear weapons are pointless anyway - no-one in their right mind (even Russia) would be stupid enough to use them.

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I know we won't fire ours unless someone did to us
So could you point me to the site of the Japanese Nuclear attack on America in 1945?

Oh wait, you can't, because the US is the only country to have actually partaken in nuclear warfare.






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Old 11-10-2008, 03:57 PM   #7
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We all would want no nukes. But the reality is there are people who want America dead, who know how to make it, and who want to simply conquer. And the cat is out of the bag. If they have nukes we have to have the to prevent them from firing theres because if they did we'd destroy them too. So again it is a way to prevent somene from firing them. It's again a last resort, hope to never use it, if we didn't have them they'd either fire on other inocent countries or use it on others. So we use it to protect our interests and protect us from nuclear war. A defense that is simply meant as a deterent so others don't use theres. And we can because we won't use them unless someone were to nuke us. Otherwise we'll never fire them. If we wre the single nation with nukes and no one else had them we would not blow someone up. The only reason why we fireed on at the end of WWII is to save more allied and American lives from having to have a bloody war with Japan. We did it to save lives for our allies and us. If we didn't we'd lose and our allies would lose mroe lives.

Nukes are scary. And unlike Russia we won't ue it to conquer and obliderate countries we just don't like. But they would if they had nukes and we didn't.

Yes Russia would use them because they wouldn't have any lose. They would have no fear of any harm on them if they knew we had no nukes. They know we are a threat to their want to conquer the world so they'd love to have us without nukes because then they'd just nuke us out of existance. And taht wouldn't hurt the world at all. We'd be the only smoking radiation filled crater.


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Old 11-10-2008, 04:19 PM   #8
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@rogue15- i'd love to see you make a post about how obama is somehow violating your upscale lifestyle that doesnt make you look like some 12 year old mongoloid tia
he isn't violating anything, he's not in office yet.


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Old 11-10-2008, 04:26 PM   #9
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He will. And if he disarms us then the US will be no more because Russia nad China will see it as an oppertunity to nuke us out of existance. I don't trust them for a second that they'd remove theirs because we said they should. They don't trust us either. So if both sides don't trust each other then again both sides shouldn't put the gun down for fear they believe the other will use that as an oppertunity to kill the other. Again its a weapon we hope to never use again than that one time against Japan. It's to prevent others from doing it to inocents and us. We will not use it to conquer. They will Russia will. And we are not Russia.


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Old 11-10-2008, 04:32 PM   #10
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i don't think china would nuke us, don't we buy alot of stuff from them?


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Old 11-10-2008, 04:56 PM   #11
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China is signing up 100yr leases to drill in the gulf and we are not. Obama won't drill. China is buying up all hte concrete and stuff. They are fortefying their cities, and building up their navy. And even if China was not in the picute, Iran and Russia would fire nukes on us if we had none. And Obama would be foolish to believe that Russia disarmed and Iran too if they said they disarmed. They lie and we can't trust them.


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Old 11-10-2008, 05:03 PM   #12
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I need threads like these to help me remember why other countries think that people from the United States are a bunch of cave-dwelling war-mongers.
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Old 11-10-2008, 05:14 PM   #13
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Obama said he would negotiate with Russia to take us off hair trigger and the huge jump in logic is that equals unilateral disarmament.

Obama also said he would not pursue a missile defense system until it was viable. So, not wasting billions of dollars on something that gives you a false sense of security is bad?


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Old 11-10-2008, 05:18 PM   #14
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he isn't violating anything, he's not in office yet.
well, at least you can dodge questions by pointing out how i left out a word with some proficiency.

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I need threads like these to help me remember why other countries think that people from the United States are a bunch of cave-dwelling war-mongers.
quotin dis



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Old 11-10-2008, 05:33 PM   #15
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The war mongers are Russia who attack nations unprovoked and who are inocent. And we again have every right as other soverign nations to defend themselves. And we have every right as other nuclear nations to have nukes as a weapon that we hope never gets used again, but as a last resort to deter other nuclear nations from using theirs to attack us and harm others.

Obama is wanting to do this because he thinks he can appease true war mongers like Russia who are bent on seeing the US dead. Comon sense says if two people are facing each oother with guns you the one who only uses the gun in defense won't lower your weapon if the other country will fire theirs in the split second you lower yours. You won't fire yours unless they fire. ANd you won't fire yours if they lower theres. But if you lower yours they'll fire on you. So in no way would you lower. And you can't negociate with countries hell bent on seeing the US and all who love freedom dead.

And those systems keep you guys safe to act like peacenicks. Obama is weak and is kissing the butts of Russia and will of terrorists because he's Jimmy Carter who was the worst presient, but Obama is also Carter with a side of socialistic, class warfare toting, wimpy president to be. He'll be the death of us.

Yeah I bet you all from other countries would love to see us gone wouldn't you. You've love for Russia to nuke us to death. We conservatives won't let that happen. And if they try to take our guns we Americans will have a revolution and cue our own government. That's right Gasp. lol. The whole reason why we have the second amendment is to have guns in case the government becomes oppressive and tyranical and wishes to be like how England was with the colonies.

Countries like Russia don't respect weakness. ANd Obama is showing weakness. And weakness invites aggression. And no if someone else is whoing weakness to the US we will not show aggression unless they show aggression. That is because we are not war mongers like Russia.


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Old 11-10-2008, 05:41 PM   #16
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The war mongers are Russia who attack nations unprovoked and who are inocent. And we again have every right as other soverign nations to defend themselves. And we have every right as other nuclear nations to have nukes as a weapon that we hope never gets used again, but as a last resort to deter other nuclear nations from using theirs to attack us and harm others.

Obama is wanting to do this because he thinks he can appease true war mongers like Russia who are bent on seeing the US dead. Comon sense says if two people are facing each oother with guns you the one who only uses the gun in defense won't lower your weapon if the other country will fire theirs in the split second you lower yours. You won't fire yours unless they fire. ANd you won't fire yours if they lower theres. But if you lower yours they'll fire on you. So in no way would you lower. And you can't negociate with countries hell bent on seeing the US and all who love freedom dead.

And those systems keep you guys safe to act like peacenicks. Obama is weak and is kissing the butts of Russia and will of terrorists because he's Jimmy Carter who was the worst presient, but Obama is also Carter with a side of socialistic, class warfare toting, wimpy president to be. He'll be the death of us.

Yeah I bet you all from other countries would love to see us gone wouldn't you. You've love for Russia to nuke us to death. We conservatives won't let that happen. And if they try to take our guns we Americans will have a revolution and cue our own government. That's right Gasp. lol. The whole reason why we have the second amendment is to have guns in case the government becomes oppressive and tyranical and wishes to be like how England was with the colonies.
thank god for you conservatives who keep us all safe with your guns i bet they really make the russian army think twice. alternatively, people like you could stop stirring up **** on the international stage or perhaps even not **** up the economy so that if any of your half-cocked theories comes to fruition, we could actually be prepared for a war on that scale.



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Old 11-10-2008, 05:54 PM   #17
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The war mongers are Russia who attack nations unprovoked and who are inocent. And we again have every right as other soverign nations to defend themselves. And we have every right as other nuclear nations to have nukes as a weapon that we hope never gets used again, but as a last resort to deter other nuclear nations from using theirs to attack us and harm others.
lolwut? What gives you the right to paint the Russians as "war mongers?" We've invaded just as many nations as Russia (Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc.).

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Obama is wanting to do this because he thinks he can appease true war mongers like Russia who are bent on seeing the US dead. Comon sense says if two people are facing each oother with guns you the one who only uses the gun in defense won't lower your weapon if the other country will fire theirs in the split second you lower yours. You won't fire yours unless they fire. ANd you won't fire yours if they lower theres. But if you lower yours they'll fire on you. So in no way would you lower. And you can't negociate with countries hell bent on seeing the US and all who love freedom dead.
So, what special properties give you the ability to see into President-elect Obama's head? Please, do explain. How does being diplomatic make someone weak? Because we want to reduce our nuclear weapons, we're weak?

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And those systems keep you guys safe to act like peacenicks. Obama is weak and is kissing the butts of Russia and will of terrorists because he's Jimmy Carter who was the worst presient, but Obama is also Carter with a side of socialistic, class warfare toting, wimpy president to be. He'll be the death of us.
Thank you for your pure opinions. Please, do add some fact to that statement.

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Yeah I bet you all from other countries would love to see us gone wouldn't you. You've love for Russia to nuke us to death. We conservatives won't let that happen. And if they try to take our guns we Americans will have a revolution and cue our own government. That's right Gasp. lol. The whole reason why we have the second amendment is to have guns in case the government becomes oppressive and tyranical and wishes to be like how England was with the colonies.
...what? Why do you assume that every other country in this world wants the United States to die? I agree with what you said about the Second Amendment- I believe Jefferson said that the only time we should use it is when "they" try to take it away. However, the context in which you used it makes no sense.

Clarification is in order.

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Countries like Russia don't respect weakness. ANd Obama is showing weakness. And weakness invites aggression. And no if someone else is whoing weakness to the US we will not show aggression unless they show aggression.
Again, how is diplomacy a weakness? I fail to see this. Weakness may invite aggression, but, once more, I don't understand how sitting down and talking to someone (or even reasoning with them!) is a weakness.

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That is because we are not war mongers like Russia.
I reiterate: lolwut?
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Old 11-10-2008, 05:54 PM   #18
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thank god for you conservatives who keep us all safe with your guns i bet they really make the russian army think twice.
Our nukes will do that as a deterent. And our guns will do the same for our government and keep those wimply pencil pushers in line too.

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people like you could stop stirring up **** on the international stage or perhaps even not **** up the economy so that if any of your half-cocked theories comes to fruition, we could actually be prepared for a war on that scale.
We are not the ones causing junk like Russia. We didn't start WWII or 1 like Germany, Itily, or Japan. We are not the ones doing that. But we are the ones who defend others. And we even defend peacenicks. :wink

And as for the economy it was not just Bush. It was the democrats who straight party lines apposed the republicans on regulation to fanny may and freedy mac. And they are stil allowing AIG who twice used our tax dollars and bailout money to have them relax in hot tubs and waste your money. And we are giving them money. They are ones like Palosi who will jsut bash Bush when it was them and Barney Frank who were also responsible for the probelms with fanny and freddie.

A lot of the spending I was against that bush did. He's not a true Republican. He's for amnesty, big government, bailouts, and spends too much. He's moe left than right.

I wouldn'tve loved to have Romni, or Huckabee.

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lolwut? What gives you the right to paint the Russians as "war mongers?" We've invaded just as many nations as Russia (Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc.).
They are war mongering they've claimed parts of Georiga as part of their own. When we invade and by the way with Iraq we'll leave and it will be their own country. We freed them and to defend others is not war mongering. In my opinion your view of us is very warped.

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So, what special properties give you the ability to see into President-elect Obama's head? Please, do explain. How does being diplomatic make someone weak? Because we want to reduce our nuclear weapons, we're weak?
Because if he does not follow through with wanting to do the disarming then we can't trust his word that he says what he means and means what he says either. But I am givng him the benefit of the doubt that he does seek to disarm us.

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..what? Why do you assume that every other country in this world wants the United States to die? I agree with what you said about the Second Amendment- I believe Jefferson said that the only time we should use it is when "they" try to take it away. However, the context in which you used it makes no sense.
Disarming our guns or nukes I consider the same thing. Both mean we have no equel power to defend ourselves nationally or internationally.

Quote:
Again, how is diplomacy a weakness? I fail to see this. Weakness may invite aggression, but, once more, I don't understand how sitting down and talking to someone (or even reasoning with them!) is a weakness.
When it comes ot countries like Russia they don't wnat to put down their nukes. Neither does Iran. They want to use them. And our sanctions and warnings have done nothing to stop Iran.

As for your little Iraq link. Iraq war mongeringly invaded Kuwaitt who was inocent. We beat Saddam. He said he asked for us to stop and that he surrenders. We said okay Saddam we'll stop as long as you get out of Kuwaitt and allow inspectors in. The inspectors are to make sure you don't crete any new weapons to harm your neighbors.

That was a cease fire agreement. Not a declaration of end of war peace. So the Gulf war never ended. Eventually Saddma stalls with the U.N. inspectors. We say let us in our we'll sanction you. He kicks us out in direction violation of our agreemtn regarless if he had any weapons or not. We pass many sanctions and Saddm did not comply. 14 resoutions(warnigns) did nothing either.

So we wanted the U.N. to stuport us with aid, policing forces, and support if we went into Iraq. They din't want to go in because they are peacenicks, had their corrupt Food for Oil deal, and never really like us or rarely support us anyway.

Oil for food scandel whcih was siply where they wanted to give Saddm food to feed his people in exchange for oil. Saddm wouldn't feed his own people so the U.N. wanted to do it for him. But the un moral U.N. didn't want us to go into Iraq because they'd lose out on their deal with Saddam and lose the oil they were getting so they can line thir pockets with money.

On top of htat the food was not going to feed Saddma's hungry people. It was going to feed Saddma army. And the U.N. says they are a humananitarian organization. Sounds like a bunch of corrupt money grubbing thugs who have been of little use to the US and those who value freedom anyway. They rarely side with us.

It does not matter thaye had no weapons. They broke a agreemtn and they got beat. And we then freed their people. All of South Iraq, Anbar, and several other provences are totally now controled by Iraqies and there is mostly peace. But there will always be occasional bombings like how Israil has it. But it's much better than a rule that Saddam had over Iraq.

And their country will be theirs not ours. Unlike Russia who claims part of Georgia as theirs.



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Old 11-10-2008, 06:04 PM   #19
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well, at least you can dodge questions by pointing out how i left out a word with some proficiency.
You never asked me a question.


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Old 11-10-2008, 06:09 PM   #20
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Reality check

To accuse other nations of being imperialist aggressors while completing ignoring our foreign policies for past 60 years belies a level of hypocrisy without limits.

Addendum: it occurs to me that I may have spoken to hastily. It could be either phenomenal hypocrisy or willful ignorance. Either works.
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Old 11-10-2008, 08:02 PM   #21
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To accuse other nations of being imperialist aggressors while completing ignoring our foreign policies for past 60 years belies a level of hypocrisy without limits.
So we can't call them war mongers, but you can call us taht. Double standard. No America you can't do this say this or that or you get called racist, arogant or mean. Wah. It's like a boxing match and we are told you can't fight with two hands and you have to fight with one tied behind your back, but your appoinent can fight with two hands. Wah we hate America. We obay the U.N. rules, but when it becomes that the U.N. supports oil for food scandels and stuff like that then yeah screw what they think. We as Americans believe we are right and no one can tell us what to say do, or believe. We think we in our right to have nukes andefend ourselves. Your afraid of us don't be. We're not Russia. If we had nuks and no one would fear from us because if we had nukes and others didn't we would not fire on anyone. It's because we are not Russia. I know that's hard to believe since your so use to being around tyranical nations like Russia who we want to protect you from.

And I really don't care if war spending puts me in a poor house lives mean more to me, or should I say American lives and our allies mean more to us than money. Oh that's right the U.N. doesn't get that. They were willing to sacrifice lives to still line their pickets for cash while ignoring that Saddma was not giving to food to his people. Some organization that is. Worthless to our ends.

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just when i lost hope for this thread you come in to post off-topic, non-nonsensical blather about evolution ty m@rs
Like every political topic I get into with you people I don't drive it off topic you guys seem to always bring up Iraq or something else and I simply respond. I will respond because again I have every right to defend myself. You can post I can post. Let's not disarm my post either. lol.

I came here wanting someone to offer some info I din't know of how Obama won't do this because of this rule or that rule or we'll prevent him this way or that. And I also thought I could have a civil conversation with people. I know you guys are far left, but I thought we could agree on this. Obvously when it even comes to America's survival we can't agree. Not going to bother anymore.

From here on out I'll simply use LF for what it is supposed to be for which is topics related to the different Star Wars games. And also I can tell here I'm not getting anywahere either especially when I see someone go ahaha I made a off topic post thing. Not going to bother.

Bye. If you feel the need to have the last word that's fine there is no one here other than you far left who agree with each other and no one else your talking to is on the fense or is conservative. End of political discussions that waste my time. I wish they'd put in a delete topic button for one who create the topic. Waste.


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Old 11-10-2008, 08:21 PM   #22
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So we can't call them war mongers, but you can call us taht. Double standard.
You missed the point entirely. To accuse another country of war-mongering when we are by far the largest transgressor is hypocrisy. It has absolutely nothing to do with whether they are being war-mongers or not.

It's kinda like getting mad at your significant other for cheating when you've nailed anything that moves for the entire length of the relationship.
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Old 11-10-2008, 09:18 PM   #23
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I'm sorry that you feel that way, Nihil. We can have a calm, reasonable discussion. However, just as you post your views and (some of us) look at them, (we'd) ask you to do the same. If, after you've done that, your mind has not changed, that's alright. However, (we'd) ask you to extend that courtesy to (us).
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Old 11-11-2008, 04:04 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by SD Nihil View Post
So we can't call them war mongers, but you can call us taht. Double standard.
Hardly. As Achilles pointed out, it would be dishonest in the extreme to point fingers at other nations while disregarding your own nation's less than peaceful past.

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We as Americans believe we are right and no one can tell us what to say do, or believe.
Do you speak for all of the American people?

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We think we in our right to have nukes andefend ourselves. Your afraid of us don't be. We're not Russia.
No one should have the 'right' to have nukes, much less the right to actually use them.

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If we had nuks and no one would fear from us because if we had nukes and others didn't we would not fire on anyone.
It's natural to fear the strong - especially when they take part in needless displays of destruction (Hiroshima, Nagasaki).






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Old 11-11-2008, 06:31 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by SD Nihil View Post
Your afraid of us don't be. We're not Russia. If we had nuks and no one would fear from us because if we had nukes and others didn't we would not fire on anyone. It's because we are not Russia. I know that's hard to believe since your so use to being around tyranical nations like Russia who we want to protect you from.
Wait, what? Did I step into a time portal back to the fifties or something?

The cold war is over man. Yeah, it's hard to believe but it was all over the news like seventeen years back.

It's not as black-and-white as 'America is good and can be trusted with nukes, Russia is evil and cannot be trusted with nukes'. You have to consider their motives. If America saw a good reason to nuke anyone, they would do so, and if Russia doesn't have a good reason to nuke anyone, they won't. And as far as I can tell they have no reason to go and piss off the mightiest military and political superpower in the world. What the hell for? To start WWIII just for kicks?

Frankly, if you're afraid of being nuked the moment you lay down you nuclear arms, I think there may be a problem with your foreign policy.

PS. To be honest I'm more afraid of America starting WWIII right now than Russia, but maybe Obama will change that.
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Old 11-11-2008, 10:57 AM   #26
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The cold war is over man.
Unless, of course, it starts again. I am watching this back-and-forth over the missile defense system in Poland with great interest.
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Old 11-11-2008, 12:40 PM   #27
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except achilles never mentioned obama in his posts and they weren't off topic.

i actually find achilles to be personally unpleasant

"HAHA I POSTED AN OFF-TOPIC MORON COMMENT THEN SOMEONE RESPONDED HAHA".

if i may be so bold, i submit that people like you who ignore the facts and blindly believe in whatever their parents shove down their throats is what's killing this country.

anyhow, care to form an opinion on the thread's topic instead of constantly bitching about how "facts" and "science" don't jive with your narrow view of the world? or will it just be something along the lines of "god loves the us" that i can safely ignore?
I don't blindly believe anything my parents tell me, my dad says that if he ever tells me something that's against the Bible, to go to another church... I disagree with my dad on a couple things... You'll ignore them like every idiot does... They don't shove their beliefs down my throat, they let me choose... I became a christian, and they helped me along the way...

I wouldn't be surprised if the recording is fake, now I'm no fan of Obama... But people don't like authority, so they'll do anything to make the people in charge look bad...


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I don't want to get my hopes up, but it's like the planets are aligning or something.
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Old 11-11-2008, 12:48 PM   #28
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Yes it's truly unthinkable that Obama is for nuclear disarmament I mean worst case a nuclear exchange will exterminate all life on the planet but whatever **** that hippie noise.



"No, Mama. You can bet your sweet ass and half a titty whoever put that hit on you already got the cops in their back pocket." ~Black Dynamite
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Old 11-11-2008, 05:38 PM   #29
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ou missed the point entirely. To accuse another country of war-mongering when we are by far the largest transgressor is hypocrisy. It has absolutely nothing to do with whether they are being war-mongers or not.
According to the world or parts of it that hate us and again I know they would love to see us dead. Don't you want us dead. Say it. I know you do. We are the country that when things are going well no one ever thanks America. But once its going bad in the word that's always whre the finger is pointed first. Igrates, peacenicks, whiners, and those who just want to lie and manipulate all to see us dead because they are jelous of what we've accomplished in so short of a time.

Well if someone tries to destroy us and is about to we'll just palute our own country so if we can't have nothing you won't get it either. And if we are about to be shot because someone holds a trigger to our head and says you wil do and live the way we want then I'll pull the trigger for them because no one like that tells me what to do. And if they want to take my money and posessions I'll ingest them so you don't get nothing. So basically if we are going down we will say screw you we'll just make you have nothing to gain.

And when China and Russia are still there and we don't exist you'll be longing for the days we were around to keep them at bay. And if you think our ultimate goal is to take the world over then you don't know us. The way we spread freedom is not by war. Tht is when force is necessary to releave militant opprssion, and tyrany. But for non combative countries we do it through ideals and dipolomacy. This is what we do tha the Romans didn't do. And unlike the Romans we don't go around taking land and claiming it part of America. Iraq is its own country and soon will be theres very soon.

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They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." ~Benjamin Franklin
The safety isn't temporary if we have the nukes to keep our liberty. So your saying we deserve no safety. Say it you want America to do die don't you. You kill us you doom your futures. We are the only thing standing between you and non existance and slavery by Russia, Iran, or China. We deserve safety because we have done for others so much and given so much. We don't care what people that don't like us think. We are right your wrong we are great other haters who can't appos us are weak and yet we aer good enough to overlook your hate and protect you.

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Hardly. As Achilles pointed out, it would be dishonest in the extreme to point fingers at other nations while disregarding your own nation's less than peaceful past.
We don't care. I don't care. We've done a lot of good. All countries have parts of their history we are not proud of. Like abortion for example. Our bad past how about China's present where they are paluting the air and yet we get called the worst pouters when they kill Christians and treat those with disabilities with so little regard. So you want to talk about bad past there it is.

So take the sticks out of your own countries eyes before you judge us.

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Do you speak for all of the American people?
I speak for the ones who are Americans. Not those corrupted and simply want handouts and are lazy pathetic thugs. I say those in washington that are advocating socialism should get thrown into Gitmo. To end socialism I say a little temporary dose of nationalism should be implimented. If comunistic countries do that to people apposing the ****ry and others to we should do for those who wish to appose freedom. For the Empire!

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one should have the 'right' to have nukes, much less the right to actually use them.
Again we wouldn't have them if there were no countries that had them theemselves. But they won't disarm. Iran, China, and Russia won't ever get rid of their nukes. They'll lie about disarming. They are untrustwortyhy and evil. We are good they are bad. We are right they are wrong.

We have the nukes to deter those who will use thir nukes if we had none or were not around. We are protecting you.

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It's natural to fear the strong - especially when they take part in needless displays of destruction (Hiroshima, Nagasaki).
It wsa right. It was necessary to save American and allied lives. If we didn't more lives of the allies and Americans would've been lost. You giuys never read. You drink the coolaid and you never really hear me.

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The cold war is over man. Yeah, it's hard to believe but it was all over the news like seventeen years back.
Not the way Russia is acting. They want to take all of Georgia and Yukraine, and they would love to take back their empire. And other coutntries see Russia is acting like the way of old. The world sure does not like what they are doing and has kicked them out of the world market and Russia has withdrawn from NATO and the G8.

You simply se America as a beast that you want to make calm and then when we are calm you'll say NOW and the uuclear countries will kill us.

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It's not as black-and-white as 'America is good and can be trusted with nukes, Russia is evil and cannot be trusted with nukes'. You have to consider their motives. If America saw a good reason to nuke anyone, they would do so, and if Russia doesn't have a good reason to nuke anyone, they won't. And as far as I can tell they have no reason to go and piss off the mightiest military and political superpower in the world. What the hell for? To start WWIII just for kicks?
Comon sense does the brain some good. Rusia like you said is evil and evil and untrustworthy people you can't trust to disarm. So you must always have nukes wheile they are that way. And no if you think we'd just look for a reason for nuking others for a reason the only one would be if they were to launch one of us. YOu are fear mongering. Yeah I can use your peacenick gay terms too.

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Frankly, if you're afraid of being nuked the moment you lay down you nuclear arms, I think there may be a problem with your foreign policy.

PS. To be honest I'm more afraid of America starting WWIII right now than Russia, but maybe Obama will change that.
Our foreign policy. Say it you hat America and watn us to not exist. You'd love ofr us to die. Say it. And Russia is taking countries as their own. We don't. We freed and that country is theirs. We simply give them the power to rule themselves. And you are American hate mongerign. See hoow stupid and ridiclous the peacnick terms are. Quagmire, war mongering, wah America you can't defend yourself. But Russia can becaue we really just want to kill you America.

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I don't blindly believe anything my parents tell me, my dad says that if he ever tells me something that's against the Bible, to go to another church... I disagree with my dad on a couple things... You'll ignore them like every idiot does... They don't shove their beliefs down my throat, they let me choose... I became a christian, and they helped me along the way...

I wouldn't be surprised if the recording is fake, now I'm no fan of Obama... But people don't like authority, so they'll do anything to make the people in charge look bad...
To deny facts is ignorant. No your not ignorant, but that statement of saying its fake is ignorant. I'm not suprised though you don't listen to your parents. I mean heck you don't listen to me and I'm simply offering comno sense. And he's probably not going to bother anyway like I should not with nay of you guys who continue to not har me, rad, listen, have comon sense, and choose to continue to drink the Obama coolaide.

You choose to deny reality and I wouldn't be suprised if your one of those who listens to MSNBC and like Keith Overmen. MSNBC is so pathetic they have to make up thir ratings and even then they can't even compete with Fox. How sad.

I bet when Obama does disarm us you'll jsut say that's fake too. And when missiles hit your house you'll just say ah its a hologram. Enough.

I will make a prediction you'll post after my post and you'll say stuff I've already answered, but say I didn't. I also predict you'll bash America some more. Like I said the only thing I'm using LF for for now on is for game realted questions.


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Old 11-11-2008, 05:59 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by SD Nihil View Post
According to the world or parts of it that hate us and again I know they would love to see us dead. Don't you want us dead. Say it. I know you do.
Thanks for the false dichotomy, but I think I'll pass.

My preference would be that we stop sticking our nose where it doesn't belong. No need to wish death upon myself or my fellow citizens in order for that to happen (although there are some of you I wouldn't miss very much)

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We are the country that when things are going well no one ever thanks America.
My response.
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Old 11-11-2008, 06:38 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by SD Nihil View Post
We don't care. I don't care. We've done a lot of good. All countries have parts of their history we are not proud of. Like abortion for example. Our bad past how about China's present where they are paluting the air and yet we get called the worst pouters when they kill Christians and treat those with disabilities with so little regard. So you want to talk about bad past there it is.
I wasn't referring to any of the things you've brought up - I was referring to the military endeavours that the US has pursued in the past, and that no one country is innocent of imperialism and conquest.

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So take the sticks out of your own countries eyes before you judge us.
I'm not judging anyone. And I don't presume to speak for my country.

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Again we wouldn't have them if there were no countries that had them theemselves. But they won't disarm. Iran, China, and Russia won't ever get rid of their nukes. They'll lie about disarming. They are untrustwortyhy and evil. We are good they are bad. We are right they are wrong.
So basically, you want America to be the only country in the world with nuclear weapons? Which would then mean that the US could hold the world to ransom? Also, Iran doesn't have nuclear weapons.

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We have the nukes to deter those who will use thir nukes if we had none or were not around. We are protecting you.
Actually, Her Majesty's Government is protecting me, thank you very much.

EDIT: Also, having reread your post, I find a lot of it offensive and rude - just because you disagree with us doesn't give you the right insult us.







Last edited by Astor; 11-11-2008 at 06:48 PM.
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Old 11-11-2008, 06:46 PM   #32
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SD Nihil, calm down. You'll die young with that much hatred in your heart.

Did you do know that Kennedy, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush 1, and Bush 2 all signed treaties with other countries to reduce or limit our stockpiles of nuclear weapons?

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You cannot simultaneously prevent and prepare for war.
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Originally Posted by SD Nihil
I speak for the ones who are Americans.
We're all Americans, like it or not. And no, you don't speak for me.


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Old 11-11-2008, 07:49 PM   #33
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Before I begin, SD, let me say that this is just plain rude. You're calling nearly every country but America "evil," and calling us "good." I find your posts extremely offensive, both as an American and a human being. Please, if you say you're not going to venture into political discussion any more, stick to your word, and don't come back multiple times.

And, for the sake of everything that you believe in! Stop referring to Americans as "WE." As a fellow American, I find it extremely offensive that you would dare group us together in these radical beliefs. Thank you.

Now, to clarify:

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Originally Posted by SD Nihil View Post
The safety isn't temporary if we have the nukes to keep our liberty. So your saying we deserve no safety. Say it you want America to do die don't you. You kill us you doom your futures. We are the only thing standing between you and non existance and slavery by Russia, Iran, or China. We deserve safety because we have done for others so much and given so much. We don't care what people that don't like us think. We are right your wrong we are great other haters who can't appos us are weak and yet we aer good enough to overlook your hate and protect you.
This, SD, in lamentable. Truly. You'd go so far as to say that Russia and China would enslave us?


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Originally Posted by SD Nihil View Post
So take the sticks out of your own countries eyes before you judge us.
Extend them the same courtesy, SD.

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Originally Posted by SD Nihil View Post
I speak for the ones who are Americans. Not those corrupted and simply want handouts and are lazy pathetic thugs. I say those in washington that are advocating socialism should get thrown into Gitmo. To end socialism I say a little temporary dose of nationalism should be implimented. If comunistic countries do that to people apposing the ****ry and others to we should do for those who wish to appose freedom. For the Empire!
Okay, I, frankly, as an American, am ashamed to call myself such because of this type of behavior. You, SD, are calling those that disagree with your views non-Americas, and those that do Americans? Well, seeing as you oppose socialism, we'll just take out all of our socialist practices (good-bye public education, police, the fire department, etc.). Employing socialist ideas does not make us un-American.

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Originally Posted by SD Nihil View Post
Again we wouldn't have them if there were no countries that had them theemselves. But they won't disarm. Iran, China, and Russia won't ever get rid of their nukes. They'll lie about disarming. They are untrustwortyhy and evil. We are good they are bad. We are right they are wrong.
What? Why do you make these unfounded claims? You're inserting opinions into an area devoted to factual debating. Please, don't try to portray us as the saviors of the world. Once more, as an American, I find it extremely offensive.

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Originally Posted by SD Nihil View Post
It wsa right. It was necessary to save American and allied lives. If we didn't more lives of the allies and Americans would've been lost. You giuys never read. You drink the coolaid and you never really hear me.
Please, tell that to the people who were bombed with nuclear weapons. Are you insinuating that American lives were worth more than Japanese lives?


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Originally Posted by SD Nihil View Post
Comon sense does the brain some good. Rusia like you said is evil and evil and untrustworthy people you can't trust to disarm. So you must always have nukes wheile they are that way. And no if you think we'd just look for a reason for nuking others for a reason the only one would be if they were to launch one of us. YOu are fear mongering. Yeah I can use your peacenick gay terms too.
1) I'm sure Russians would find that extremely rude and offensive.
2) We're fear mongering? I laugh at this statement, sir, for I propose that it is you who is "drinking coolaid."
3) Please don't use the word "gay" in that way. I'm sure that it is extremely offensive to homosexuals, and, to top it off, this is a PG-13 forum.

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Originally Posted by SD Nihil View Post
You choose to deny reality and I wouldn't be suprised if your one of those who listens to MSNBC and like Keith Overmen. MSNBC is so pathetic they have to make up thir ratings and even then they can't even compete with Fox. How sad.

I bet when Obama does disarm us you'll jsut say that's fake too. And when missiles hit your house you'll just say ah its a hologram. Enough.

I will make a prediction you'll post after my post and you'll say stuff I've already answered, but say I didn't. I also predict you'll bash America some more. Like I said the only thing I'm using LF for for now on is for game realted questions.
*suspiration*

[I nearly typed Garfield (in place of SD) on occasion, if guilt by association means anything]
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Old 11-11-2008, 10:01 PM   #34
SD Nihil
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My preference would be that we stop sticking our nose where it doesn't belong. No need to wish death upon myself or my fellow citizens in order for that to happen (although there are some of you I wouldn't miss very much)
I don't think you speak for all Americans. I took your words and used it against you. And if we didn't help the world Nazis would be rulling, Osama's would be bombing more, Russia would own more of Europe, and the world would again be looking for our help because we would e able to help, but we didn't because you want to be selfish and not help the world.

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Thanks for the false dichotomy, but I think I'll pass.
It's how the world sees us. But then again you see the world through your perspective which has lenses of liberal hate mongering of America. As for the youtube video since you guys say mine is fake I say yours is irrelivant and created by someone. And I didn't really look fully of it. It looks like a vid bashing us for wah we kill babies. That's how Saddam acted about the U.S. Hey if we kill a terrorist and we accidently kill a baby boo hoo. We don't mean to, but it happened. Aw we are so uncompasionant. How about those terrorists that strap bombs to babies and make them go BOOM. You are not calling them bad just us. Double standdard. Kinda like how you bash Palin's daughter for her daughter having a baby and then marrying the guy she had a child with. We say it wasn't her mother's fault because all you can do is teach, descipline, and love.

But yet when we got onto Clinton for having an inappropriate relationships in the Oval Office and such we just get yelled at theat we should leave him alone. Sounds like again a doulbe standard. Russia, China, and others can have nukes, but we can't. We should die I see you guys want it to happen.

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I wasn't referring to any of the things you've brought up - I was referring to the military endeavours that the US has pursued in the past, and that no one country is innocent of imperialism and conquest.
I never said that. Maybe long time ago to expand into our land yes that's how any country gets its land by occupying. But we are not still being that way today like Russia who is still being Imperialistic. Our nukes are not imperialistic. They are there simply to prevent other imperialistic nations who would use them if we weren't there to say hey if you fire them on anyone we will fire on you. If no country besides us had them we wouldn't fire them because there would be no poit to fire them. Well they would still need to be there because the knowledge of how to make them is in the world now. We specifically made them to save ives. The quick end to the war with Japan was to save Allied and US lives.

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I'm not judging anyone. And I don't presume to speak for my country.
Yes you were. With the Herosima and Nagasaki thing you said was not necessary or something. And I said it was to save allied and US lives. You were judging us and saying we shouldn't have done things. Your judging us wne you have countries like China who do far worse stuff even current to their people.

So I think others based on their perspective judge people based on their own ethics, morality(there definion of), and adgendas.

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So basically, you want America to be the only country in the world with nuclear weapons? Which would then mean that the US could hold the world to ransom? Also, Iran doesn't have nuclear weapons.
World for ransom? lol. No. It would be to deter anyone from creating any future nukes. You seem to think we are some big bad invader bent on taking over the world. We are not Russia. Hey you own your country. We are not planning to take you over. Peaceful countries we have diplomacy, free trade, and if there is one that wants us to leave them alone we do so. But if they are hurting their own people the U.N. we use first because war is the last thing we want. Diplomacy first, sanctions second, warnings third, action last. We are not war first. No one wants to up and risk lives unless it is necessary in our eyes. People just don't seem to get that we are not like any other country in the past. They just don't get the US. They just have all of this past history of countries that were oppressive and just can't believe America would simply do good for others and not expect a tahnk you in return.

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Actually, Her Majesty's Government is protecting me, thank you very much.

EDIT: Also, having reread your post, I find a lot of it offensive and rude - just because you disagree with us doesn't give you the right insult us.
Exactly. If another country invaded you we'd defend you. Your welcome. And yeah I'll try to tone it down. I'm just so use to the heated arguemtns liberals and conservatives had in Kavar's Corner. Things got so heated that's why its temporarily shut down as for other reasons too. Sorry I didn't mean to offend you.

Remember this is just a debate. I don't hate any of you. I don't think you hate me either. This is jsut politics. It's not everything. I just hope Obama doesn't disarm us because with all the countries who are unwilling to disarm, or will lie about it we just can't take our hand off of having nukes. And since we made nukes that knowledge of knowing how to make nukes is in the world so we should have them to always deter gusy who would use them. We'd never use them unles somne fired them on another. We not going to just fire someone for conquest. That's Russia who would be so bold to do that.

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Did you do know that Kennedy, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush 1, and Bush 2 all signed treaties with other countries to reduce or limit our stockpiles of nuclear weapons?
Right now is not a good time when you have such an unpridictiable nation like Russia going back to the days of conquest of the world. Yes then it was fine, but now it isn't. Yes you want to slowly both sides lower your weapons, but to have us lower it first too quickly while the other guys still have a gun means we'd die. So you want to slowly both lower their guns and at the same time both toss them away. But again we are teh responsible nation that won't use nukes for conquest.

We will still have some nuke or something even afte all disarm I think we should because the world of the past has such history of conquest that we need to keep in check. We are not like nations before us. We want all nations to be soverign, to treat others to be hiumane, we want nations to be not tyranical, and peaceful. Yes that is putting our idology on ohters, but we believe based on our idology and morality, and ethics, and adgenda that we are right to help others. To do the right thing and to know right and wrong to see what we can do to e a nation that helps others and does not seek a thank you in return although it is appreciated.

People don't seem to understand why we'd do it and not want someont in return. Same thing with those of faith they think the person of faith is doin something good simply for some kind of gain. Nope. We do it because its the right thing to do. Its not w warldly way of being. But it is a humane and good thing to give lives, aid, money freely for all man kind and service to it.

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We're all Americans, like it or not. And no, you don't speak for me.
Well its jsut my definition of being a patriot. Yes national pride too, but also to be a nation that supports the country's decision and to see your country in a good light. I'm sure Russia sees what they do as right in their way of thinking. We simply believe that they ae all about conquest and we are not going to use nukes unless someone were to fire a nuke at us or others. No one is going to risk WWIII. But Russia if we had no nukes since we are a threat to their adgenda if we had no nueks would see it as an oppertunity to take us out for good. And it wouldn't harm the world it would just destroy us and our land mass.

And the world would be without a free country.And if a country like Russia had nukes freedom is a threat to them so if a new flegling country rose from the ashes they'd nuke them because that is how they would act. Either that or they'd send their overwhelming military to end them. Point is they wouldn't stand a chance. But with us around freedom has achance against Russia and such countries. Not as to have war, but to let them know we are here and we will protect freedom in the world. We will be here and by that alone with nukes that is a deterent from you to do wrong doing to other inocent nations.

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Before I begin, SD, let me say that this is just plain rude. You're calling nearly every country but America "evil," and calling us "good." I find your posts extremely offensive, both as an American and a human being. Please, if you say you're not going to venture into political discussion any more, stick to your word, and don't come back multiple times.
I never siad ever nation. I said China, Iran, and Russia are evil. And countries that engage in the behavior like them like Norh Korea are evil too.

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Before I begin, SD, let me say that this is just plain rude. You're calling nearly every country but America "evil," and calling us "good." I find your posts extremely offensive, both as an American and a human being. Please, if you say you're not going to venture into political discussion any more, stick to your word, and don't come back multiple times.

And, for the sake of everything that you believe in! Stop referring to Americans as "WE." As a fellow American, I find it extremely offensive that you would dare group us together in these radical beliefs. Thank you.

Now, to clarify:

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Originally Posted by SD Nihil View Post
The safety isn't temporary if we have the nukes to keep our liberty. So your saying we deserve no safety. Say it you want America to do die don't you. You kill us you doom your futures. We are the only thing standing between you and non existance and slavery by Russia, Iran, or China. We deserve safety because we have done for others so much and given so much. We don't care what people that don't like us think. We are right your wrong we are great other haters who can't appos us are weak and yet we aer good enough to overlook your hate and protect you.
This, SD, in lamentable. Truly. You'd go so far as to say that Russia and China would enslave us?
If they could they would. We've kinda been enslaved by China already in that everything is made well mostly made in China. So much stuff is made over there that we wouldn't be able to really appose them much on stuff because they make most of our stuff so in that way we've enslaved ourselves. And to trade with such an inhumane country I've always disagreed with. What is says of our morality when you trade with such a country that does the same things we appose.

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Extend them the same courtesy, SD.
Again countries like Russia, Iran, and China can't compain about our country when they are doing much worse stuff. Countries responsible for past conquest can't compain about our past conquest when they've ben guilty of it too. Especialy since in thoday's world we don't go on conquest, but Russia does.

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of this type of behavior. You, SD, are calling those that disagree with your views non-Americas, and those that do Americans? Well, seeing as you oppose socialism, we'll just take out all of our socialist practices (good-bye public education, police, the fire department, etc.). Employing socialist ideas does not make us un-American.
We are a society with capitalsim and freedom. Freedom can't survie without capitalism, and capitalism can't survie without freedom. Socialism is taking money from one clas of people and givin it to another class. They say the middle class is getting smaller. That's because those that were middle class are chaning class. Which way are they going...hum either rich or poor class. Giving money to lower class doesn't work. Trickle down economics works due to history and seeing it work. But yet public schools want to rewrite history books and teach American history differently and skew the truth of history. There is no such thing as trickle up economics. If there are more rich people they can hire more, buy more, and so on and so forth.

Your only poor if you allow yourself in AMerica. My father lived in a garage at a time, but worked at differnt jobs and retired as a retired Lt. Col and retired Nurse Anesthetist. And he retired a multi miionare with investements in stocks, bonds, and money market and infact his lefestyle has not really been effected in even this economy. So in America you can make it if you try.

You can't tell me you can't walk down the street and get a job. If you live in a ba community leave that community. Bum a ride if you have no car. Live out of your car if yoru dirt poor.

If my father lived in a garage and had little to later having much you can do it too. You don't need a hand out. You need a hand up. Help yourself. Handouts will not encourage you to work, invent, or do that because that discourages self determiniation and doing better.

Universal Medicine for example the pay ou get and advancement is ultimatly determined by the government. So you can have a set standard of care that no matter how well you do you won't get more omney unless the government says you should ultimately. Also, care is determined by value. If you are more valueable to society you get care first rather than someone who has less value. It disenfranchises those who have less value in that society. Plus its a line system too of people at times too if each have same value. Who was in line first gets care no matter of the condition. If you have a broken leg and your in line first youg get care first. But behind you is a guy who needs a valve transplanet, but he can't get it until he moves up the line.

Now Private Health Care system we take emergencies right then no matter if we get paid back or not. We are humane unlike UHC. We will take you no mater what the value of you to society. I have Goldenhar's sydrom and I'm very satisfied with our health care system.

Public shcools have less competition. They are a business. Having private schools cometing with them causes them to improve liek any othe business. And it woudl do good for schools who only want to teach their students to test well on a test so they look good on paper. They will even tell you the ansers on a practice test and you get the real test and its mostly the same. So all you learned was to memorize answers.

It doesn't prepare you well for life. Heck they don't teach you good structure for College English and such. They jsut say write, but don't tell you about Thesis statements, intors, 1-3 paragraphs, conclustions, etc.

And so they discourage private schools and home schooling because it takes money away from them and shows people there is an alternative to government.

And many from Canada come down here to America becaus they know they'll get care quicker by the way because we are also being encouraged by the fact we can advance with pay and ourselves. The only limiter to how much you can have in life is not the governemt, but yourself.

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What? Why do you make these unfounded claims? You're inserting opinions into an area devoted to factual debating. Please, don't try to portray us as the saviors of the world. Once more, as an American, I find it extremely offensive.
Tjat
s because you have your idology of America. I happen to believe that if we had nukes and no one did we woulnd't use them unless someone fired on us or made one to fire on another. But then again I guess its part of my national pride that makes me feel we wouldn't. But you have your view that w'd use them for little reason like Russia who is tyranical.

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Please, tell that to the people who were bombed with nuclear weapons. Are you insinuating that American lives were worth more than Japanese lives?
Japan had allied themselves with Hitler one who did not have value for life. And by doing this nukes we saved more alied nations lives and our lives too. So by number of lives it saved in number more lives yes. Japan today is now an ally too. And it is great that in the past thye kicked our butts in economics. And that is such a great treat when you helped the country like that rebuild and later they become a great economic parner and friend and even kick your butt in economy. We are proud of Japan. And we are glad we helped them become so great.

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2) We're fear mongering? I laugh at this statement, sir, for I propose that it is you who is "drinking coolaid."
Then saying to be consistant with your idology you would be fear mongering to say your afraid America will start WWIII. But we are having a healthy fear to believe that if we have no nukes a tyranical nation like Russia would wipe us out with their nukes because freedom is a theat to their adgenda and we must be wiped out. They are war mongering because of their current war path of taking Georgia as part of themselves and looking towards Ukraine as a new target. They've put missiles and want to take the main or one of the main junctions of the oil pipelines of the world. And this is why we need to mine and drill because if they take that oil while we are still reliant on them then they have us enslaved there because we'd still be reliant on foreign oil.

So the sad thing is OB wil not drill or mine when its so necessary to do so. Screw the caraboo. Yes our lives are more valuable than a carabo's life. And I'd rather kil an animal to save our lives and I woudlnt' care to listen to some environmental extremests.

There are so many thigs we could be doing like wind power. But yet people have a problem with the fact it kills bats. Yes I've delved into other topics, but your comments I had to answer to and expand on the topic of nuks a little. Topics can branch off at times. Not a big deal I don't think.


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Old 11-11-2008, 10:25 PM   #35
Achilles
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Originally Posted by SD Nihil View Post
I don't think you speak for all Americans.
I never said that I did. It would be an odd assertion for me to make, considering how critical I am of many of the people I share a country with

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Originally Posted by SD Nihil View Post
I took your words and used it against you.
Whatever helps you sleep at night.

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Originally Posted by SD Nihil View Post
And if we didn't help the world Nazis would be rulling, Osama's would be bombing more, Russia would own more of Europe, and the world would again be looking for our help because we would e able to help, but we didn't because you want to be selfish and not help the world.
Wow. Equivocate much?

Joining the Allies to defeat the Axis was one thing. Allowing ourselves to get wrapped up into an escalating conflict with the U.S.S.R. is another. The blowback that is Osama bin Laden is yet another.

The first was a cause worthy of our attention, but probably avoidable. The second was probably avoidable as well. The third was almost entirely our doing.

You're welcome to do whatever you'd like, but I'd recommend not making the mistake of viewing all conflicts as equal and our involvment as noble.

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Originally Posted by SD Nihil View Post
It's how the world sees us.
Slow down, tiny dancer, you're arguing yourself in circles. First you were putting words in my mouth. Now you're making a completely different assertion. If you can't even keep track of your own arguments, it might be time to take a break.

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Originally Posted by SD Nihil View Post
But then again you see the world through your perspective which has lenses of liberal hate mongering of America.
Wait, I thought liberals were flag-burning, tree-hugging, peace-niks? I see the world through my perspective which allows me to not view every action my government takes as beyond reproach. Mindlessly accepting everything the Fox News propaganda machine tells me is not patriotism.

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Originally Posted by SD Nihil View Post
As for the youtube video since you guys say mine is fake I say yours is irrelivant and created by someone.
Wow, you mean YT clips don't make themselves?! My parents have a lot of explaining to do!

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Originally Posted by SD Nihil View Post
And I didn't really look fully of it. It looks like a vid bashing us for wah we kill babies.
You obviously didn't watch any of it.

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Originally Posted by SD Nihil View Post
That's how Saddam acted about the U.S. Hey if we kill a terrorist and we accidently kill a baby boo hoo. We don't mean to, but it happened. Aw we are so uncompasionant. How about those terrorists that strap bombs to babies and make them go BOOM. You are not calling them bad just us. Double standdard.
Repeating this line of reasoning isn't going to make it any less of a fail sandwich.

What other countries do or do not do has absolutely nothing to do with our hypocrisy.

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Originally Posted by SD Nihil View Post
Kinda like how you bash Palin's daughter for her daughter having a baby and then marrying the guy she had a child with. We say it wasn't her mother's fault because all you can do is teach, descipline, and love.
Wut?

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Originally Posted by SD Nihil View Post
But yet when we got onto Clinton for having an inappropriate relationships in the Oval Office and such we just get yelled at theat we should leave him alone. Sounds like again a doulbe standard. Russia, China, and others can have nukes, but we can't. We should die I see you guys want it to happen.
"No one died when Clinton lied."
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Old 11-11-2008, 11:12 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by SD Nihil View Post
So the sad thing is OB wil not drill or mine when its so necessary to do so. Screw the caraboo. Yes our lives are more valuable than a carabo's life. And I'd rather kil an animal to save our lives and I woudlnt' care to listen to some environmental extremests..
If nothing else, we should probably at least know how to spell the name of the creature we're going to kill.

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Well its jsut my definition of being a patriot. Yes national pride too, but also to be a nation that supports the country's decision and to see your country in a good light.
My definition of a patriot is someone who loves their country enough to see it prosper. This entails support for when the country acts rightly or criticism for when the country acts wrongly. However, blind acceptance of the country for what it is leads only to stagnation.



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Old 11-12-2008, 05:09 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by SD Nihil View Post
If no country besides us had them we wouldn't fire them because there would be no poit to fire them. Well they would still need to be there because the knowledge of how to make them is in the world now. We specifically made them to save ives. The quick end to the war with Japan was to save Allied and US lives.
Again, we get to 'We should be the only people who have nuclear weapons. because no one can be trusted with them. I find that argument reprehensible, and it shows the arrogance and childishness of your position.

No-one should have them. Nuclear disarmament is a step towards that.

And you don't make a bomb that can wipe out a city, kill over 300,000 people and irradiate hundreds of thousands more, rendering a city uninhabitable for years to 'save lives'.

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Yes you were. With the Herosima and Nagasaki thing you said was not necessary or something. And I said it was to save allied and US lives. You were judging us and saying we shouldn't have done things. Your judging us wne you have countries like China who do far worse stuff even current to their people.
Have they ever dropped a nuclear bomb on people? No.

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Exactly. If another country invaded you we'd defend you.
But another country isn't going to invade us. We haven't hosted a successful invasion for 1,000 years. And I wasn't thanking you, or America - I was pointing out that I don't owe America anything.

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We will still have some nuke or something even afte all disarm I think we should because the world of the past has such history of conquest that we need to keep in check. We are not like nations before us. We want all nations to be soverign, to treat others to be hiumane, we want nations to be not tyranical, and peaceful.
Do that, and American becomes the Tyrant.

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And the world would be without a free country.
Excuse me? Great Britain, France, Germany, The Netherlands, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Canada, Australia, Japan, New Zealand, and many others are 'free' countries.

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If they could they would. We've kinda been enslaved by China already in that everything is made well mostly made in China. So much stuff is made over there that we wouldn't be able to really appose them much on stuff because they make most of our stuff so in that way we've enslaved ourselves. And to trade with such an inhumane country I've always disagreed with. What is says of our morality when you trade with such a country that does the same things we appose.
That's not enslavement. That's outsourcing.

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We are a society with capitalsim and freedom. Freedom can't survie without capitalism, and capitalism can't survie without freedom.
I severely doubt that.


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Universal Medicine for example the pay ou get and advancement is ultimatly determined by the government. So you can have a set standard of care that no matter how well you do you won't get more omney unless the government says you should ultimately. Also, care is determined by value. If you are more valueable to society you get care first rather than someone who has less value. It disenfranchises those who have less value in that society. Plus its a line system too of people at times too if each have same value. Who was in line first gets care no matter of the condition. If you have a broken leg and your in line first youg get care first. But behind you is a guy who needs a valve transplanet, but he can't get it until he moves up the line.
Please see all my responses to your previous rants in the UHC thread in Kavars.

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Now Private Health Care system we take emergencies right then no matter if we get paid back or not. We are humane unlike UHC. We will take you no mater what the value of you to society. I have Goldenhar's sydrom and I'm very satisfied with our health care system.
And that is exactly the same with Universal Healthcare. I've said all I want to say on that matter before, and I don't have the inclination to continue beating a dead horse.






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Old 11-12-2008, 03:19 PM   #38
SD Nihil
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Whatever helps you sleep at night.
I sleep at night knowing that if our government tries to disarm our nukes to where we dont have any to deter others with or try to gun collect that we'll just shoot them, have a revolution, cue the governement, line up the birocrates and pop them all in order of who did the most damage based on what we think first. And if people of opposite race start getting all whiny tha if you do anything against Obama you must be racist wah. If they want to do that okay I guess a revolution will be a civil war.

I mean we yes had slavery and junk in the past and now a black man can be president and they still want to whin after that. I think they just like using race as a way to get stuff out of people. As a half blind individual a black girl asked me why I didn't use my blindness to get stuff and to get back at people by saying they are just being prejedice. I say because I have the morality not to do that. It goes along with the thing where you see people spill coffee on themselves and they blame it on the place wher they bought it. When in rality the person who had the coffe spilt on them was their own fault. No one had a gun to their head and said spill it on yourself. No matter if they accidentally spilt it on themselves it was their fault. People just want to blame everyone else for their problems except themselves. Some people of other race do the same to blame others for their laziness.

Same deal with the world. They want to blame America for all the problems in the world when in reality they should realize we did a lot for the world at our expense and they just whine and blame us. If we weren't such a moral country we'd say we won't come to help you because your not having the right attitude. But we overlook your whining because we are a good nation.

I do sleep like a log with not a care in the world about anything at all. I sleep soundly knowing that our nukes can take out anyone that would be stupid enough to fire on us with them. If we go down we'll take them with us. And if the pencil pushers in Washington cross that line of wanting to disarm the country and its citizens to where we have no nukes or guns we'll take them out. I can see why countries don't like us because of our athority either. Kids theese days treat elders so badly because they have little respect for people of experience.

Same thing with cops. People that disrepsect athority are usually the ones who try and run, resist, or try to shoot the cop. But yeah that's this present ingrateful, pants hanging off their knees, wed smoking generatin. Now I'm not saying that your part of that. But much of the present generation of kids these days fit that description.

Yup I sleep and know its not my fault that there is Dar 4 going on. It's the fault of that corrupt country and its leaders who can't take care of the problem or won't. I guess that makes me a monster that I sleep and don't worry about stuff like that at night. lol. But it seems always in history that the big dog country people seem to want to bring down. Again its that unrespect of athority. Alaxander the great, Roman Empire, etc. Not saying those civilizations are without wrongs, I think over time the great world powers have become more humae with each rise and fall of a empire.

The world is an interesting wild thing that needs to be calmed, peaceful, and in line with each other. They need control and to be taught this. We save those who are oppressed, spread our ideals through diplomacy, and of course take care of our interests as do other countries. We are the ones who police the world. Oh that's right a large part of the current generation does not respect cops so why would they respect the world's police force (us).

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Joining the Allies to defeat the Axis was one thing. Allowing ourselves to get wrapped up into an escalating conflict with the U.S.S.R. is another. The blowback that is Osama bin Laden is yet another.

The first was a cause worthy of our attention, but probably avoidable. The second was probably avoidable as well. The third was almost entirely our doing.

You're welcome to do whatever you'd like, but I'd recommend not making the mistake of viewing all conflicts as equal and our involvment as noble.
We are not the ones trying to make a conflict with Russia. They are making conflict with the world or soon will. Right now they've haulted that for the monent int that the world kicked them out of the world market. But for us they want to stir it up with puttig in jammers and missiles to try and counter ours, and try to hold the pipe junction in Georgia.

So it seems to me they are bing the aggressive nation in this situation. You may say its because of our misile system pointed at them. It wouldn't be if they were trust worthy.

You may say but what if China had missiles pointed at us. Yes we'd have some pointed at us, but if they had missiles not pointed at us we'd simply see theirs as a defense in that it is not pointed at us.

As for the world wrs. Its seems to me since you said probably avoidable with concern to our involvement that you feel we are not necessary in tha conflict. Yes maybe if we had not intervened Rusia wouldn've done the job, but who knows. It was also not only did we intervene to save more of their lives, again help out and police the world, but also because if they were allowed to take territory of Europe then they'd be in a position to control more. And in that they are up to no good even today are are evil and untrustworthy that would not be good that they are bigger than wat they currently are.

I'm just curious. What wars were we necessary to be involved in? Becaue it just sems to me you feel hat even with the most important wars you feel we are not needed.

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Wait, I thought liberals were flag-burning, tree-hugging, peace-niks? I see the world through my perspective which allows me to not view every action my government takes as beyond reproach. Mindlessly accepting everything the Fox News propaganda machine tells me is not patriotism.
In general the environmental extremest are hte tree hugers who don't see thta you do need to clear away the dead brush because if the dead brush is there fire can spread from tree to tree because the brush connected to tree to tree. They don't understand cutting down dead trees prevents fires from spreading. It's like with the bailout. We want them not to collapse. But the dead corrupt parts I say let em burn. Don't save GM or Cyrysler. Let em burn for their over barrowing and bad practices. Let the parts of the forest that did the wrong things burn as a lesson to others to not repeat the past of wrongful business practices.

I live and die by my morals. And I say die meaning even if it kills me. If I overbarrow and fail then its my fault and I shall burn too to be consistant.

Now liberals are the ones who in general don't want to go to war ever, or pull out when it gets tough. Peaceniks kinda, but there are differences of course. They don't always march in the streets hilding picket signs and bashing our soldiers.

My father when he returned from Vetnam had poo thrown at him. But he and the soldiers were told not to fight back. How awful of those peacenicks to throw that at him. How dar they. How dare the peacenicks protesting in California about the ban on gay marriage and proposition eight. Majority of blacks voted against gay marriage in Califoria. But rather than the protesters proteting infront of NAACP buildings or something related they chose a church of Rick Warren who had nothing to do with it.

They did this becaus it would be politicaly incorrect to protest any one of color. So they go after another group like those of Christian faith who didn't become the overwhelming vote against the ban. Blacks were the deciding vote in it.

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Wow, you mean YT clips don't make themselves?! My parents have a lot of explaining to do!
I'm sayng there is a difference between my vid which was actual audio of Obama and yours that looked like something someone put together.

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You obviously didn't watch any of it.
Well I could only tell that part of it. Like I sai I'm half blind and have a hard time seeing. So well you can tell me what was on that vid if yo want.

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Repeating this line of reasoning isn't going to make it any less of a fail sandwich.

What other countries do or do not do has absolutely nothing to do with our hypocrisy.
You amuse me young one. It is not a failure. We will leave Iraq victorious.Mosule, Anbar, and all of S. Iraq are now mostly at peace and under full control of the Iraqies. But its hard to know that if you listen to left wing media who has the adgenda of reporting half of the story. It's like how they give negetive coverage of McCain and give mostly good for Obama. They are very biased. Fox is balanced and has both liberals and conservatives on. Even O'Reily didn't favor either OB or McCain. Equal coverage and critism for both. They are fair and balanced.

And every night MSNBC gets owned in their ratings. Even when the Democrate National Convention was going on they owned MSNBC easily. So easily MSNBC had to put up false ratings. Sad. They Fox bash McCain equally for his views not being core conservative and for not supporting Palin against the cowards in McCain's campaign who have made up false rumros about her. McCain is a coward to not support her.

If he was truly for bringing out those that were corrupt and making their names famous he should do the same for those annoymous individuals who are bashing Palin. He's the biggest coward. I say h should go since he's all about reaching across hte isle. He should just go across the isle and sit on the democrates area anyway since he's more democrate thean conservative anyway. Lebermen should just not even campaign for the democrates since they are so willing to throw him under the bus for supporting McCain. They want to take his chairmen seat away.

Vengful whining liberal party. It would be great if lebermen then switched to the Republicans as a screw you to the liberals.

And in case you were to say you'd like that SD so your side would get people. Na. I said McCai should go dem and Leberman should go conservative. So dems and reps would still have sme number.

Leberman is independent yes, but yeah I guess that would mean your side would ge one more. See I'm so fair I'm unfair to my own party.

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Wut?
I was showing double standards and comparisons.

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"No one died when Clinton lied."
Neithe did they with the Bristal thing. Again I was showing the double standard people had with Palin's daughter, but also didn't want us to get on to Clinton for his imoral in the Oval Office stuff with interns. I guess your no one dying is the fact you mean Iraq. Bush didn't lie. We went on intel from other countries, ours(intel agency was deminished due to Cltionton cutting funding for those. He didn't like our intelligence or those thypes of agencies. Neither did he like our military. That's why he cut so much funding on it. Oh that's right Obama is going to do that oo. Not suprised either), and the fact that Saddma broke our agreemtnet by not allowing inspectors in, defying us even with sanctions, warnings, and so war was the last resort.

It's like a child who brought a knife to schol and threatened another kid. The threatened kid would be Kuwaitt. And the kid with the knife would be Iraq. So we the US, the parent, take the knief away from the kid(Iraq). We tell him he can't go near the kid he threatened(Kuwaitt).

The kid agrees(Iraq. He allows us to check in hi room for knives because w said we would be doing so. For a time he complys. Later he tells us we can't look under his bed. Eventually we say he better let us look under his bed. The child kicks us out of their room.

So we put them on restriction(sanctions), warn them we'll just break the door down, and in both cases the child just says no we can't come in. Same with Iraq they do't want us to come in. So the only thing left is to come in.

If you agreed to this type of aproach to the child you'd to be consistant agree with it with Iraq.

It is regretable that soldiers die in war, but that's what they do is die and serve their country. They are soldiers put in arms way. Tht's their job.

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If nothing else, we should probably at least know how to spell the name of the creature we're going to kill.
I'm sure those that would would know how to spell it better. It's not like I don't know how to spell. It's just I don't care. As long as you understand me it really doesn't matter to me. Plus it's kinda nit picky anyway to me. This conversation really doesn't take much effort for me to care all that much.

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Again, we get to 'We should be the only people who have nuclear weapons. because no one can be trusted with them. I find that argument reprehensible, and it shows the arrogance and childishness of your position.
That's because we are not irresponsible, evil, and liars, and doing junk like Russia. Arogant this or that. I really care not for the European view that hates America.

I think it goes along with the opinion people have about our military. Hollywood and the Europe generally have. I mean look at for example Mars attack which was a stupid move, and In the Army now. In both cases the Sergent and General were all musle bound and gruff. Totally a sterotype.

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And you don't make a bomb that can wipe out a city, kill over 300,000 people and irradiate hundreds of thousands more, rendering a city uninhabitable for years to 'save lives'.
Well it saved many lives rather than having to send soldiers to those two islands we sent the nukes to. It saved allied and US lives. And we have them still not to fire, but as a deterent against those that would. Because we are responsible. Russia, Iran, and China are not I believe.

I can't speak for every American and neither can you. Again it's all my opinion and yours. Our minds are made up. I have my view of national pride and of America nad you do as well of your view. Your never going to change how I think, feel, or act. Nor should I of you, or anyone by corersion, bargining, or threatening. I'm not saying you've done it, but I'm just saying a general statement.

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Have they ever dropped a nuclear bomb on people? No.
Thankfully due to ours being the deterent. Having no nukes to defend yourself shows weakness. And the world does not repect weakness. Nor do our enemies.

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But another country isn't going to invade us. We haven't hosted a successful invasion for 1,000 years. And I wasn't thanking you, or America - I was pointing out that I don't owe America anything.
I consider the 9/11 attacks an attack by another country on our soil. The same with Pearl Harbor. Both declarations of war and invasion of our territory and soverenty. And they don't need to invade us if they can simply obliterate us with nukes. That's why ours should always be there as a deterent.

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Do that, and American becomes the Tyrant.
In your opinion. Again you don't speak for Americans.

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Excuse me? Great Britain, France, Germany, The Netherlands, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Canada, Australia, Japan, New Zealand, and many others are 'free' countries.
And I doubt they can stand against China or Russia if they wanted to nuke them. And if they have no nukes again they can't stand against China and Russia. Who'se (Russia) ambitions are to conquer Europe. Militarily you'd have to resist Russia. And if you fight them and lose they'll conquer them as well.

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That's not enslavement. That's outsourcing.
I'm against both. Enslavement as in we must buy from them in that most of our products are made over there, the knowledge too of how to make this and that they have too. Outsourcing is also cheap, but not good when you are having so much of your products made over there. They in a way own your output of products. That's enslavement of production and way of manufacuting in that they have it and we don't.

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I severely doubt that.
Well I guess you'll just have to experience the changes Obma will do to get you to wake up. By then it will be too late to change anything. Once you have Universal Health Care I doubt you can revert to Capitalistic Private Health Care.

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And that is exactly the same with Universal Healthcare. I've said all I want to say on that matter before, and I don't have the inclination to continue beating a dead horse.
This info on UHC and PHC comes from the individuals (friends) I know who live in Canada. They live there and they know. Are you calling them liars? We are beating a dead horse. I didn't come here to debate or have one.

I had this audio and I only came here to speak to those conservatives who could re asure me to as why Obama won't be able to disarm all our nukes and how to prevent him from doing so.

As you can see we both have minds made up and are closed minded. No point in debate if we were even ttrying to have one.


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Old 11-12-2008, 03:36 PM   #39
Astor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SD Nihil View Post
I think it goes along with the opinion people have about our military. Hollywood and the Europe generally have. I mean look at for example Mars attack which was a stupid move, and In the Army now. In both cases the Sergent and General were all musle bound and gruff. Totally a sterotype.
My dreams have been crushed.

Quote:
I can't speak for every American and neither can you.
No, I can't, but i'm not American, so I wouldn't presume to speak for another countries citizens.

Quote:
I consider the 9/11 attacks an attack by another country on our soil. The same with Pearl Harbor. Both declarations of war and invasion of our territory and soverenty. And they don't need to invade us if they can simply obliterate us with nukes. That's why ours should always be there as a deterent.
I was actually talking about my country, not yours.

Quote:
In your opinion. Again you don't speak for Americans.
I have never spoken for anyone other than myself. You'll notice the absence of the word 'we' in my posts for a reason.

Quote:
And I doubt they can stand against China or Russia if they wanted to nuke them. And if they have no nukes again they can't stand against China and Russia. Who'se (Russia) ambitions are to conquer Europe. Militarily you'd have to resist Russia. And if you fight them and lose they'll conquer them as well.
Maybe the fact that America is pointing a missile shield at Russia isn't helping Russian sentiments.

Quote:
Once you have Universal Health Care I doubt you can revert to Capitalistic Private Health Care.
I already have 'teh evil, communistic UHC' and I quite like it.

Quote:
This info on UHC and PHC comes from the individuals (friends) I know who live in Canada. They live there and they know. Are you calling them liars? We are beating a dead horse.
I'm not calling anyone a liar, unlike you once did to me in a discussion over Universal Healthcare. I'm telling you that we've already discussed healthcare, and there's no need to discuss it here.

Quote:
I didn't come here to debate or have one.
[/thread] then?






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Old 11-12-2008, 04:19 PM   #40
mimartin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SD Nihil View Post
I'm sayng there is a difference between my vid which was actual audio of Obama and yours that looked like something someone put together.
I believe your originally posted video is valid. I believe someone placed a misrepresentative title on it. A title that has nothing to do with the content of the video: Obama - Unilaterally Disarm America is a complete and utter fallacy, but some seem to buy into it without really listening to what the President-Elect actually said.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SD Nihil View Post
You amuse me young one. It is not a failure. We will leave Iraq victorious.Mosule, Anbar, and all of S. Iraq are now mostly at peace and under full control of the Iraqies.
Wait, I must have been in a coma. When did we discover the hiding place of Saddam’s WMDs?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SD Nihil View Post
Vengful whining liberal party. It would be great if lebermen then switched to the Republicans as a screw you to the liberals.
You can keep Lieberman and we will keep Former Secretary of State, General Colin Luther Powell.

As to the breakdown in the Senate - you do know there was an election recently. It is no longer a 49-49 breakdown. The Democrats now have a 55 to 40 seat margin with 3 still too close to call. Lieberman is still important, but not as important as he was been for the past two years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SD Nihil View Post
It is regretable that soldiers die in war, but that's what they do is die and serve their country. They are soldiers put in arms way. Tht's their job.
And it is the President of the United States job to do everything in his/her power to only put soldiers in harm’s way as a last resort. They are our last line of defense not our first option. Having them march around the desert in a giant Easter egg hunt for WMDs was just stupid.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SD Nihil View Post
I think it goes along with the opinion people have about our military. Hollywood and the Europe generally have. I mean look at for example Mars attack which was a stupid move, and In the Army now. In both cases the Sergent and General were all musle bound and gruff. Totally a stereotype.
But you sure buy into the 1940s to early 1960s Hollywood stereotype that Americans are the ones in the big white hats ridding in to save the day.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SD Nihil View Post
Thankfully due to ours being the deterent. Having no nukes to defend yourself shows weakness. And the world does not repect weakness. Nor do our enemies.
Did you watch the video you originally posted? Obama never said anything about unilaterally disarming America. That was merely the title someone that dislikes Obama made up. Obama said he would not spend money on military contracts that don’t work, he would cut unnecessary wasteful spending and he would talk to Russia about getting us off hair trigger. That does not mean he will remove the trigger altogether.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SD Nihil View Post
I had this audio and I only came here to speak to those conservatives who could re asure me to as why Obama won't be able to disarm all our nukes and how to prevent him from doing so.
But that is not what the audio/video said. See above.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SD Nihil View Post
As you can see we both have minds made up and are closed minded. No point in debate if we were even ttrying to have one.



Last edited by mimartin; 11-12-2008 at 04:55 PM.
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