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Old 01-01-2009, 10:44 PM   #1
SilentScope001
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I apologize for my stupid predictions in the Unknown Regions Forum

This thread is not me coming back. I'm not coming back.

But I made a mistake. I need to take responsiblity for said mistake, rather than leave it unresolved. If I made a dumb prediction, I need to apologize for it.

Time and time again, I repeated a dumb prediction about the True Sith: That they would be destroyed at the end of KOTOR3 and the galaxy would be saved. I was wrong. I was so wrong. That is because, as the KOTOR MMO showed, a new Sith Empire trimpuhed and acheived parity with the Old Republic. In fact, the Jedi had to relocate due to the power of this new Sith Empire. Players can ally with the Sith Empire or the Old Republic, and accept quests from both factions.

It stands to reason that the new Sith Empire is likely backed by the True Sith...or maybe are the True Sith themselves. And since it is unlikely that this MMO would truly end, the Sith Empire will still exist for a long time, meaning that the True Sith won.

I never, honestly, in a million years expected that. Never. Not even from Obisidan. Say what you will about The Old Republic MMO...but at least Bioware got guts to showcase the bad guys WINNING.

So there we go. I made a dumb prediction, and I was proven wrong. I'm sorry.


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Originally Posted by The Onion
"The Cambodian government has established many exciting-sounding 're-education camps' where both intellectuals and everyday citizens can be sent at any time," Day said. Well, we at Barnes & Noble have always supported re-education in America, and we intend to extend this policy to our new customers." For every hardcover book sold, Barnes & Noble will donate a dollar to the Cambodian government to help re-educate local children.
Full Article Here
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Old 01-01-2009, 10:55 PM   #2
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You didn't really have to make a new thread to apologize to people. People here really don't care either way about what your predictions are


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Old 01-01-2009, 11:23 PM   #3
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Why was your prediction dumb if you had no reason to think it was incorrect?


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Old 01-02-2009, 02:25 AM   #4
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How could it be a stupid prediction if you didn't know what was actually going to happen? That's what a prediction is, what you think is going to happen.

You should be apologizing for this stupid thread.


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Old 01-02-2009, 06:21 AM   #5
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^^^^ QFE ...

Sory, but this thread = FAIL in my opinion.

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Old 01-02-2009, 11:58 AM   #6
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Might take a little more effort to read behind the words he typed, but I believe anyone who replied to this so far can understand it. The apologize is not the point, he wants to incite a discussion about the True Sith and them winning against Revan and the Exile.


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Old 01-02-2009, 12:13 PM   #7
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No, I'm not trying to incite an discussion. If I did, I would have it be in the title.

I'm okay with what Bioware has done. I'm sure most people are, after all. I mean, it's their game now, and they got good reason to do it. And, it doesn't really matter what our views are, Bioware did it. So, really no discussion.

I made a mistake, and I should have seen any consquences. You see, I had no reason at the time to believe that the True Sith would win, but that's the thing, I should have thought that way. I should have somehow thought that Obisidan or Bioware would have been creative enough to do that, to let the plotline continue, rather than to terminate it. I didn't. It was an honest mistake...but it was a mistake. That was it.

I might have been hard on myself for calling it "stupid", but...I really should have known better. Especially with me cluttering the forum with nonsense like "why play the game if we know the ending", when it turns out I didn't know the ending. Meh.


Quote:
Originally Posted by The Onion
"The Cambodian government has established many exciting-sounding 're-education camps' where both intellectuals and everyday citizens can be sent at any time," Day said. Well, we at Barnes & Noble have always supported re-education in America, and we intend to extend this policy to our new customers." For every hardcover book sold, Barnes & Noble will donate a dollar to the Cambodian government to help re-educate local children.
Full Article Here
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Old 01-02-2009, 12:14 PM   #8
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Oh, well in that case, a discussion could be in order to redeem the past predictions. But to be honest to the apology, it was a prediction, no absolute garuntee of what it was, so, you're being incorrect wasn't exactly something that needed to be apologized for.


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Old 01-02-2009, 12:21 PM   #9
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Okay, so that conclusion may again be wrong, SS. We don't know if the current Empire (by TOR time) is backed up or is the True Sith themselves. For all we know, the Emperor may be Revan or the Exile or a pupil of some kind.


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Old 01-02-2009, 12:40 PM   #10
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Okay, so that conclusion may again be wrong, SS. We don't know if the current Empire (by TOR time) is backed up or is the True Sith themselves. For all we know, the Emperor may be Revan or the Exile or a pupil of some kind.
I guess that's true too. The fact that it's still "Sith" doesn't help the Republic any.

Oh well. I'll apologize for this thread.


Quote:
Originally Posted by The Onion
"The Cambodian government has established many exciting-sounding 're-education camps' where both intellectuals and everyday citizens can be sent at any time," Day said. Well, we at Barnes & Noble have always supported re-education in America, and we intend to extend this policy to our new customers." For every hardcover book sold, Barnes & Noble will donate a dollar to the Cambodian government to help re-educate local children.
Full Article Here
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Old 01-02-2009, 12:49 PM   #11
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Their no need to apologize, you can say what ever you want, it's you're life and you're mind. So don't feel sorry for expressing you're self.



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Old 01-02-2009, 01:07 PM   #12
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Hey, least you aren't making threads and posts after posts, raging about this in my forum like some people are.

You made a prediction, and it was off by some. I think just about everyone's predictions on this game were wrong. The 300 years in the future thing kind of caught everyone off guard, for example.

But yeah, I agree with you. I'm glad to see it back in Bioware's hands instead of Obsidian.
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Old 01-02-2009, 03:47 PM   #13
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But yeah, I agree with you. I'm glad to see it back in Bioware's hands instead of Obsidian.
Amen to that, to some extension.


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Old 01-02-2009, 06:43 PM   #14
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But yeah, I agree with you. I'm glad to see it back in Bioware's hands instead of Obsidian.
I disagree, Obsidian had the better story and better interface system, but they got the due date bumped up on them. Fact is, it's a miracle the game even worked at all. Developing Games takes a significant amount of time, and moving up the due date a few months can be disasterous.

Bioware's game had a good story, but Obsidian is the one that came up with the True Sith storyline, and I don't believe Bioware would be able to finish the story.

Now, I could see Obsidian and Bioware working together on KotOR III, but the storyline and some other things would have to remain Obsidian's.
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Old 01-02-2009, 06:51 PM   #15
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Now, I could see Obsidian and Bioware working together on KotOR III, but the storyline and some other things would have to remain Obsidian's.
Storyline, perhaps. Storytelling? No way.


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Old 01-02-2009, 07:01 PM   #16
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Storyline, perhaps. Storytelling? No way.
The storytelling was messed up because the release date was bumped up by a few months and they had to throw everything together, thus causing a lot of the story to end up being on the cutting room floor cause they were trying to get it so the game even worked.
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Old 01-02-2009, 07:24 PM   #17
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The storytelling was messed up because the release date was bumped up by a few months and they had to throw everything together, thus causing a lot of the story to end up being on the cutting room floor cause they were trying to get it so the game even worked.
I'm well aware of what the development team passed through, but even if the process went smoothly the storytelling would probably still be bad.


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Old 01-02-2009, 08:12 PM   #18
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I'm well aware of what the development team passed through, but even if the process went smoothly the storytelling would probably still be bad.
You can't argue that, I'm a Computer Graphics Technology Major and though I'm going into manufacturing graphics and not gaming, I know darn well that it takes a long time to get everything together for a game, and what Lucasarts did by bumping up the game forced them to go into attempting to throw together the game haphazzardly and debug it. We don't know what all got left out.

We do know it was at least 1 planet, several planets were unfinished, Citadel Station was unfinished, multiple endings hadn't been put together yet, etc. The ability to teach your party members lightsaber forms is missing as well.

Who knows what content is also missing that would have caused the story to flow more smoothly than it does currently?
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Old 01-02-2009, 08:37 PM   #19
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^ Things like forms, stances, items, placeables, upgrades, side-quests and whatnot are neat additions to a game, surely. But how good are those things storywise? They hold no value to it. And of course, there were cut content, but almost everything vital to the story was there.


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Old 01-02-2009, 10:31 PM   #20
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Old 01-03-2009, 02:22 AM   #21
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You made a prediction, and it was off by some. I think just about everyone's predictions on this game were wrong. The 300 years in the future thing kind of caught everyone off guard, for example.

But yeah, I agree with you. I'm glad to see it back in Bioware's hands instead of Obsidian.
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Old 01-03-2009, 05:05 AM   #22
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But yeah, I agree with you. I'm glad to see it back in Bioware's hands instead of Obsidian.
A cut deadline could've happened just as easily to BioWare. Their game would have been as worse off for it as Obsidian's was.

I think it's a testament to them (Obsidian) that TSL was easily as good as its predecessor despite being developed in a third of the time.


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Old 01-03-2009, 05:13 AM   #23
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Still doesn't change the fact the story belonged in a D&D/NWN style universe.

Mary Sues everywhere. Its odd that those praising Obsidian for TSL are the same ones I see complaining about Revan and Exile and the direction Avellone took the story.

Sure, the game was ok stable and played. Doesn't deter from the fact that the story probably would not have changed most in the long run given more time.
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Old 01-03-2009, 05:37 AM   #24
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Still doesn't change the fact the story belonged in a D&D/NWN style universe.
That's why I liked it so much. It was Planescape: Torment II in everything but name.

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Mary Sues everywhere.
Not to the degree that they were in K1.

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Its odd that those praising Obsidian for TSL are the same ones I see complaining about Revan and Exile and the direction Avellone took the story.
I'm not. He was already established as a military genius and powerful Force-user in the first game, if that's the point you were making.


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Old 01-03-2009, 05:40 AM   #25
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Not to the degree that they were in K1.
Hey, least at the end of K1 you could decide to be evil.

TSL made any decision you made in K1 "good" for the Universe as a whole. Even if your goal was destruction or to save all the little orphans, in the end Revan was always the hero.

Added ontop of that bizarre characters like Exile and Sion.
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Old 01-03-2009, 06:14 AM   #26
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Hey, least at the end of K1 you could decide to be evil.
Which was something I didn't like. Basing the ending off a single choice made everything your PC did prior to said choice totally irrelevant. You could "fall" to the dark side before then, sure, but as even PCs that were 100% good-aligned could choose to side with Bastila it didn't make a bit of difference.

I preferred TSL's method of having the outcome of certain plot-critical points be determined by your alignment (which ensured that even giving 5 credits to that beggar on Nar Shaddaa would have some significance), and having certain others be determined by player choice. And then having the ending of the game determined by how most of those previous choices averaged out.

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TSL made any decision you made in K1 "good" for the Universe as a whole. Even if your goal was destruction or to save all the little orphans, in the end Revan was always the hero.
No, that was just what Avellone turned pre-windwiped Revan into (although "hero" isn't the most fitting word). Decisions made by the PC in K1 were more irrelevant than anything else, as the plot demanded Revan leave for the Unknown Regions whether he blew up the Star Forge or not (but then again there's next to no sequels where what the player did in the previous game has any significant impact on the story. You'd have to essentially write two plots that way).

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Added ontop of that bizarre characters like Exile and Sion.
Bizarre for Star Wars, sure (or actually not depending how much of the EU you count as canon). Personally I didn't care how well TSL fit into Star Wars' continuity, as the plot wouldn't have been the same without them.


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Old 01-03-2009, 08:27 AM   #27
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Not to the degree that they were in K1.
granted K1 had Revan, but TSL had everyone as some kind of Vergence in the force with a unique non SW super power running in non canonical circles with a terrible ending, plus you could train a crew member to be knight level Jedi in 20 minutes.

With regards to time frame vs good ending, did Obsidian have to start from scratch with TSL? I mean apart from a few extra's and a different color scheme, is it not the same game (question not statement I honestly dont know )


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Old 01-03-2009, 11:30 AM   #28
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I'm not. He was already established as a military genius and powerful Force-user in the first game, if that's the point you were making.
Surely, and while K2 had the chance to mitigate it they've chosen to augment his reputation even more. Out of ten words said by Kreia, nine spoke well of Revan.


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Old 01-03-2009, 11:47 AM   #29
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granted K1 had Revan, but TSL had everyone as some kind of Vergence in the force with a unique non SW super power running in non canonical circles with a terrible ending, plus you could train a crew member to be knight level Jedi in 20 minutes.

With regards to time frame vs good ending, did Obsidian have to start from scratch with TSL? I mean apart from a few extra's and a different color scheme, is it not the same game (question not statement I honestly dont know )
technically, tsl was almost exactly the same as kotor, yes. on the other hand, kotor was a (somewhat heavily) modified version of nwn.



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Old 01-03-2009, 12:23 PM   #30
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thanks for info


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Old 01-03-2009, 02:31 PM   #31
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Which was something I didn't like. Basing the ending off a single choice made everything your PC did prior to said choice totally irrelevant. You could "fall" to the dark side before then, sure, but as even PCs that were 100% good-aligned could choose to side with Bastila it didn't make a bit of difference.
True, it did make everything else you did somewhat irrelevant, but it was also good in that it offered a chance at redemption. Sometimes in real life you're faced with a big decision, and you may change your mind about everything when faced with a flat out choice selfishness or selflessness.


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Old 01-03-2009, 05:08 PM   #32
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granted K1 had Revan, but TSL had everyone as some kind of Vergence in the force with a unique non SW super power running in non canonical circles with a terrible ending, plus you could train a crew member to be knight level Jedi in 20 minutes.

With regards to time frame vs good ending, did Obsidian have to start from scratch with TSL? I mean apart from a few extra's and a different color scheme, is it not the same game (question not statement I honestly dont know )
It would have been very cliche if they had Revan be the main charecter again, I actually think the KotOR II chars were better developed and more interesting that the KotOR I chars.

TSL wasn't just a sequel it introduced a new dynamic to the storyline that showed the fallout of the Jedi Civil War.
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Old 01-03-2009, 05:31 PM   #33
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I didn't say anything about Returning characters, I was responding to a post regarding K1 having more mary sue's than TSL, and the game similarities comment was regarding the game engine, and the quality of game Bioware would of produced if they had the same time frame as obsidian.


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Old 01-03-2009, 05:34 PM   #34
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I didn't say anything about Returning characters, I was responding to a post regarding K1 having more mary sue's than TSL, and the game similarities comment was regarding game engine, and the quality of game Bioware would of produced if they had the same time frame as obsidian

Yeah, I'm not sure Bioware's game would have worked at all.
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Old 01-03-2009, 06:02 PM   #35
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Yeah, I'm not sure Bioware's game would have worked at all.
having played a lot of Bioware games and only a handful of Obsidian titles, I believe the result of Bioware's work couldn't be worse than Kotor 2 was.


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Old 01-03-2009, 06:04 PM   #36
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having played a lot of Bioware games and only a handful of Obsidian titles, I believe the result of Bioware's work couldn't be worse than Kotor 2 was.
Well based on the fact they had more time than Obsidian did and still had to write out a planet, I'm not too sure they would have had a better game.

Furthermore, Obsidian was contending with multiple possible endings for KotOR I that they had to take into account.
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Old 01-03-2009, 06:38 PM   #37
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Yeah that really applies to video games.
And what's the matter when that happens?


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Old 01-04-2009, 07:15 AM   #38
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For the record KotOR= teh pwnzer!!!1111

TSL= sucky


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Old 01-04-2009, 10:55 AM   #39
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Well based on the fact they had more time than Obsidian did and still had to write out a planet, I'm not too sure they would have had a better game.

Furthermore, Obsidian was contending with multiple possible endings for KotOR I that they had to take into account.
On the other hand, BioWare had to develop the engine, write the scripts, create items, etc, etc. Obsidian may have added some, but much of the items in TSL were holdovers from KotOR.



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Old 01-04-2009, 01:51 PM   #40
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Location: NY
Posts: 783
Current Game: The Witcher
I've only played The Sith Lords roughly five full times. Graphics wise the game takes the win. Story wise I'm left feeling uncertain. I don't get filled from playing act two. I didn't notice many plot holes; however, I wasn't paying attention to the deeper details. I only noticed them after someone here pointed them out. My initial reaction to the game was its an oky story. Would I buy it again? Most likely not. I don't think the story was captivating enough. I'm also not into heavy game playing; thus, I'm in no way an expert on what makes a good roleplaying game.

The original game wins for a few reasons - (1) I get this Star Warish feeling all over when I play it. (2) Its the first time I stepped into a Star Wars rpg. (3) I felt successful after playing the game.
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Go Back   LucasForums > Network > Knights of the Old Republic > Game Discussion > The Unknown Regions > I apologize for my stupid predictions in the Unknown Regions Forum

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