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Old 01-09-2009, 06:17 PM   #1
jinger
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Skin, bone, and supermodels

I've got questions on how to go about modeling to get fine results. I usually use kotor tool to extract model files and mdloops to get the ascii source. I use 3dsmax 5 with NWMax 0.7 to edit the models cos nothing else works. I figure there's loss of precision when importing ascii models into 3dsmax, which must be why skins appear less smooth than the original. Is there anything I can do about that?

I was trying to give Atris long hair and have them wave around like Jedi robes. I took the skins from Atris' ascii model and stuck them with the bones of the female supermodel, which includes those needed for Jedi robes. I had said bones start from the head instead of the pelvis by replacing their parent-bone name, and imported everything into 3dsmax. I stuck my long hair mesh to the bones and the animations looked just great, but of course when I get the binary it doesn't work. Is there anything I can do about that?

I also tried to make new female captains. A black female in Sith uniform and hat, all in one model, cos there's something wrong about that Sith uniform model that makes heads twist after battle, and I didn't want to make a helmet item just to get the hat on her head. Both the body and the head move during animations, but the head doesn't stay one with the body. Does anybody know why? Same happened with Carth, and the uniform I made for him. I had to make three different models for head, hat, and body, because the all-in-one solution got me hat and body where they belonged, but the head just didn't stick with the body.

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Old 01-10-2009, 09:28 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jinger View Post
I've got questions on how to go about modeling to get fine results. I usually use kotor tool to extract model files and mdloops to get the ascii source. I use 3dsmax 5 with NWMax 0.7 to edit the models cos nothing else works. I figure there's loss of precision when importing ascii models into 3dsmax, which must be why skins appear less smooth than the original. Is there anything I can do about that?
You are aware that in the regular Perspective view port Max doesn't show skins/textures at their best quality.

You could do a quick render to see them in their real glory.

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I was trying to give Atris long hair and have them wave around like Jedi robes. I took the skins from Atris' ....
....h the body.
Saddly this is one of the things we aren't able to do just yet.
All goes well in the 3D editing program, but we don't have the tools yet to get them properly in the game.

Check this thread out.

With some hex editing, some of us were ablee to add extra meshes to a male head model.

Females seem to be hard to do...


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Old 01-10-2009, 04:13 PM   #3
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It's not the textures, I mean the meshes, they look like they're made of less vertexes, edges are more pronounced. Also, when doing the trick of copying skin meshes from one model to the supermodel template, the skins get sort of strangled around the joints:


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Old 01-10-2009, 04:18 PM   #4
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Ooh, sorry, must be something with the smoothing groups perhaps ?

Could ofcourse be MDLops or one of the other tools that "whacks" the smoothing while compiling..


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Old 01-10-2009, 04:26 PM   #5
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Smoothing groups? XD I don't know what that is. Thanks though. It could have something to do with weights, but then what should I do?

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Old 01-10-2009, 04:33 PM   #6
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Smoothing groups? XD I don't know what that is. Thanks though. It could have something to do with weights, but then what should I do?
Smoothing groups are an option in the Editable Mesh/ Editable Poly modifier.

So you'll need to select that first in the stack (under Skin).
Max will give a warning message, just click on "hold yes" or just "yes".

Then use the select poly/face, pick several from your model.
Scroll down in the modifier options, untill you see this box, with lots of numbers.
Going from 2 to 64 IIRC.

Show spoiler


Though it may well be you'll have to re do the whole weighting thing in the skin modifier... can't help you with that, never done it myself before.


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Old 01-10-2009, 05:48 PM   #7
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I understand that smoothing groups affect rendering, not geometry, and I don't think they get through the conversion to binary, correct me if I'm wrong. Welding vertexes along those edges in the picture seems to help, I'm not sure why. But it's hard work doing that to the whole model, every time I want to make a new model. There must be some other way

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Old 01-11-2009, 05:06 AM   #8
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Well feel free to do some testing/ research/ messing around on body modelling

Making new bodys & heads is something we can't do yet, as we don't have a clue what to do with certain steps and stuff.


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Old 01-11-2009, 11:40 AM   #9
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This is a MDLoop problem, I think some information is lost and the game is unable to render the separated meshes of the model smoothing their edges. I've already begged for someone to fix this... but got nothing up till now.


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Old 01-11-2009, 11:23 PM   #10
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I made an all-in-one model (hat, head, and body) of a black sith captain. His head stays where it should, his face responds well to most of the bones, but the jaw is messed up
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quanon View Post
Check this thread out.

With some hex editing, some of us were ablee to add extra meshes to a male head model.
I also tried making just the head with the hat. I hex edited those lines but then the face didn't move at all

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Old 01-12-2009, 05:49 AM   #11
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I also tried making just the head with the hat. I hex edited those lines but then the face didn't move at all
That happens sometimes, not every head seems to respond ok to this editing.

Sometimes it helps to just redo the whole process... other times it could be that MDLops breaks something while compiling it to ASCII format.

Other heads seem to be broken ( Twi'lek male and stuff), that Hex-edit isn't perfect, it just gives a hint... of what needs to be done.

Saddly I'm no expert on programming languages and how they read/see 3D and all...


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Old 01-13-2009, 03:15 PM   #12
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This is a MDLoop problem, I think some information is lost and the game is unable to render the separated meshes of the model smoothing their edges. I've already begged for someone to fix this... but got nothing up till now.
I've asked for this too, but since I am not the best the next suggestion could be for nothing. If you try this tutorial:
http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=193050

Because when I'm only editing mesh I always use Taina’s replacer tool for this bug.


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Old 01-14-2009, 04:46 PM   #13
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I've done it. I can't wait to see if it's that simple for any head model. I've made one model with body and head and cap, and it works. No skin deformation whatsoever.


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Old 01-15-2009, 01:03 PM   #14
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I've done it. I can't wait to see if it's that simple for any head model. I've made one model with body and head and cap, and it works. No skin deformation whatsoever.

By curiosity, did it worked for the smooth edges group? Ho! Before I forget, nice job!


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Old 01-16-2009, 02:02 PM   #15
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I haven't managed to fix the edges, I've tried welding verts but it screws textures. It looks like we can make as many new heads as we wish though, I tried making other models and it works. The limit, of course, the head model being one with the body, is that body variations won't be possible, perhaps. I suppose I could just remove the skin meshes of the body, move the base dummy to where headhook would be, and use the model as a head model, but I haven't tested this yet.

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Old 01-16-2009, 04:12 PM   #16
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I haven't managed to fix the edges, I've tried welding verts but it screws textures. It looks like we can make as many new heads as we wish though, I tried making other models and it works. The limit, of course, the head model being one with the body, is that body variations won't be possible, perhaps. I suppose I could just remove the skin meshes of the body, move the base dummy to where headhook would be, and use the model as a head model, but I haven't tested this yet.
Well at least you gave me hope with editing Darth Malak head and body amd also for my unwounded Darth Sion project. Keep up the good work!


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Old 01-25-2009, 11:03 PM   #17
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I suppose I could just remove the skin meshes of the body, move the base dummy to where headhook would be, and use the model as a head model, but I haven't tested this yet.
Now I have, and it doesn't work. I don't know why but it only works with whole models. Anyway, with this method I've been making some cool stuff that is currently pending approval on kotorfiles.

http://i543.photobucket.com/albums/g...dmiralty04.jpg
http://i543.photobucket.com/albums/g...eofTelos04.jpg

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Old 01-26-2009, 12:00 AM   #18
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Now I have, and it doesn't work. I don't know why but it only works with whole models. Anyway, with this method I've been making some cool stuff that is currently pending approval on kotorfiles.

http://i543.photobucket.com/albums/g...dmiralty04.jpg
http://i543.photobucket.com/albums/g...eofTelos04.jpg
Wow modding is coming so far, Just hope you can fix the arms. Great job with Battle of Telos by the way.

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Old 01-26-2009, 01:37 AM   #19
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Very nice work. These will definitely find a way to my Override.

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