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Old 10-20-2009, 09:35 AM   #1
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Next Xbox Live Update will cripple non-authorised memory devices.

Story.
Original Source.

What's a non-authorised memory device, you ask? Anything not made by Microsoft.

Doesn't bother me, as I use my Hard Drive, but I can see that this is going to (and has) upset more than a few people.

Smart move, Microsoft.






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Old 10-20-2009, 09:51 AM   #2
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hmm...will this include mp3 players?


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Old 10-20-2009, 11:06 AM   #3
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Apparently it's designed to kill the 2GB and 4GB Datel MAX Memory cards (and others of that ilk I presume) - http://us.codejunkies.com/Products/X..._EF000778.aspx

The problem is a lot of people have been hacking saves and profiles of late, and these types of cards help facilitate it. Disabling them won't stop it completely, but it does make it slightly more difficult. Plus of course MS can't make their huge markup when you start buying unauthorised 3rd party products.

USB storage devices (HDDs and MP3 players) will be unaffected as they can only be used to stream media, not store saves and profiles on.
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Old 10-20-2009, 03:05 PM   #4
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I feel sorry for all the console gamers out there, they get taken advantage of to no end.


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Old 10-20-2009, 04:01 PM   #5
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@ cire992: How so?



Microsoft has been pushing towards having games downloaded directly to the system memory for quite awhile. They've recently put up 360 games you can download straight to your console... because of that, this move is not surprising AT ALL.

Microsoft just wants to cut any chance of piracy on their consoles to stop people from exporting those games from the system.

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Old 10-20-2009, 04:05 PM   #6
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Coming from Microsoft this doesn't surprise me in the least...it has little or nothing to do with anything but money. Microsoft's memory devices and hard drives are overpriced and they know it. This is simply their way of forcing people to buy their accessories.


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Old 10-20-2009, 06:56 PM   #7
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So what are we supposed to do about it? I seems to me that when companies do this sort of thing, people get flustered about it, the company soon knows that people don't like the upcoming change, and yet the company ignores its customers because it has nothing to gain by appealing to their wishes.

Don't worry, I'm sure a genius workaround will come out a few weeks after this update. Edit: followed by another patch to block the workaround, followed by another workaround, followed by another patch, etc, etc...


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Old 10-20-2009, 11:38 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Lynk Former View Post
Microsoft just wants to cut any chance of piracy on their consoles to stop people from exporting those games from the system.
It's not an anti-piracy move, it's an anti-account tampering move. The update is designed to kill unauthorised 3rd party memory cards, like the Datel ones, that give easy access to save and profile data on a PC, making hacking easy.

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Microsoft has been pushing towards having games downloaded directly to the system memory for quite awhile.
They can't move to a download-based system when half their install base doesn't have a hard drive (Core/Arcade users) and most of the rest only have a 20GB HDD. Even if that weren't the case, direct downloads are far from a practical option at this point, especially on consoles. There are people in the world still on dialup you know, or without an internet connection altogether. Physical media will be with us for a fair few years yet.
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Old 10-21-2009, 12:39 AM   #9
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It's not an anti-piracy move, it's an anti-account tampering move. The update is designed to kill unauthorised 3rd party memory cards, like the Datel ones, that give easy access to save and profile data on a PC, making hacking easy.
Actually it's both.

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They can't move to a download-based system when half their install base doesn't have a hard drive (Core/Arcade users) and most of the rest only have a 20GB HDD. Even if that weren't the case, direct downloads are far from a practical option at this point, especially on consoles. There are people in the world still on dialup you know, or without an internet connection altogether. Physical media will be with us for a fair few years yet.
I didn't say they were going to stop physical media and only release games on a download service. But Microsoft has started a section in Xbox Live where people can download selected 360 titles to their HDD. Google it and see. Hence, they've been investing in having games available for download as I stated before, though only for games that have been out for awhile now.

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Old 10-21-2009, 01:47 AM   #10
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i really don't see what's wrong with this move. if it stops people from hacking files and accounts, then fine: let them do it.

and all this crap about Microsoft just wanting people to only buy their products: just hush. if you didn't already know that a corporation is out to make money, then you obviously haven't been around too much. i'm actually kind of tired of everyone taking shots at Microsoft over stupid stuff like this whenever just about every corporation out there does the same darned thing.


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Old 10-21-2009, 01:51 AM   #11
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Actually it's both.
Not really. Piracy is pretty much exclusively with disc-based media on the 360. There are far more effective anti-piracy measures they could take. And you can't install games on memory cards, which are the primary target of this update. It's about account hacking. If you read Major Nelson's post he basically alludes to that fact.

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Originally Posted by Lynk Former View Post
Microsoft has started a section in Xbox Live where people can download selected 360 titles to their HDD. Google it and see.
I have a 360. I'm well aware of the digital downloads. However, given the lack of ubiquity of 360 HDDs (and publisher's persistence with outmoded region differentiation), it will remain a very minor distribution channel far into the foreseeable future as I said.

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and all this crap about Microsoft just wanting people to only buy their products: just hush. if you didn't already know that a corporation is out to make money, then you obviously haven't been around too much.
There's a difference between a company making a profit and absolutely gouging their customers. Have you seen the price of official 360 HDDs? Do you know how much MS actually pays for the drives?

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just about every corporation out there does the same darned thing.
That doesn't make it right. Blind acceptance is why they (and Apple and all the rest) can continue to get away with such practices.

Last edited by DarthParametric; 10-21-2009 at 01:58 AM.
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Old 10-21-2009, 02:56 AM   #12
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I'm very happy with direct-to-HD downloads, after badly scratching a couple games.


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Old 10-21-2009, 12:06 PM   #13
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^ Did the console scratch those games? That started happening to me just before the disc drive in my 360 broke.


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Old 10-21-2009, 12:15 PM   #14
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Don't stand your 360 upright - that will destroy discs.
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Old 10-21-2009, 04:22 PM   #15
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There's a difference between a company making a profit and absolutely gouging their customers. Have you seen the price of official 360 HDDs? Do you know how much MS actually pays for the drives?
so, what's your point?? the technology that goes into the Wii continues to be much cheaper than the $200 price tag that it carries. yet for some reason, it just gets called "good business" instead of gouging.

the point is that its all relative. you can rant and rave about Microsoft charging through the nose for accessories, but then, every other console manufacturer does the same darned thing in one way or the other. welcome to capitalism.


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Old 10-21-2009, 04:35 PM   #16
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That doesn't make it right. Blind acceptance is why they (and Apple and all the rest) can continue to get away with such practices.
Funny, I thought it was because they produced a product that people were willing to purchase.


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Old 10-21-2009, 06:06 PM   #17
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Funny, I thought it was because they produced a product that people were willing to purchase.
Or rather that bratty kids are willing to force their parents to purchase. When it's your own money, that you worked for and earned, you wise up and look on ebay or Craigs List for deals. Works every time.

Makes me think, though. Nobody wants a console, what they really want to do is play the fun games that require the console.


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Old 10-21-2009, 06:27 PM   #18
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@ cire992: How so?
We have essentially NO control over out system. Something goes wrong? Send it in. Something breaks? Send it in. Won't read games? send it in. Company doesn't like something? Strange updates. Certain 3rd-party games more fun? Make them unreadable on the machine.

With a computer, I can do and solve almost all those problems by altering hardware or software, and never needing to send my machine off to some tech in India and hope they actually fix it.


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Old 10-21-2009, 07:39 PM   #19
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Ohhh, yeah. No more little memory devices because we want you to buy our ridiculously overpriced proprietary memory devices.

Anti piracy, Acct. hacking, a dent to work of console firmware hacking, oh and we might as well nickel and dime you to death. Oh and one more thing, we designed it with COTTON as a heat conductor/insulator instead of metals and plastics like a respectable electronic. If you open it to try to improve upon that or prevent its built in self destruction and obsolescence, your console will be banned from live.

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We have essentially NO control over out system. Something goes wrong? Send it in. Something breaks? Send it in. Won't read games? send it in. Company doesn't like something? Strange updates. Certain 3rd-party games more fun? Make them unreadable on the machine.
Anything good ends up trashed. It's such a load of BS. You know it would not surprise me if they made it so that your products won't work (not even just for home play) unless you, like, registered it and had an internet connection. I wonder why they want to know every little thing.

Quote:
With a computer, I can do and solve almost all those problems by altering hardware or software, and never needing to send my machine off to some tech in India and hope they actually fix it.
Oh, you mean like: replacing a hard drive because the original one got fried by a virus that norton antivirus was supposed to PROTECT you from? How they wanted $97.88 just to LOOK at it and diagnose what *might* have been wrong. Yet now the ram chipset won't allow you to reinstall the OS anymore. But you know that if you send it in you will spend $300 to have them esentially put a bandage on a broken bone. And get their scorn b/c you DARED to replace the hard drive yourself--possibly be charged a sir fee for going over their heads.

(not directed at you web, just relating the infuriating experiences)

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Old 10-22-2009, 12:47 AM   #20
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Quote:
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Not really. Piracy is pretty much exclusively with disc-based media on the 360. There are far more effective anti-piracy measures they could take. And you can't install games on memory cards, which are the primary target of this update. It's about account hacking. If you read Major Nelson's post he basically alludes to that fact.
There are far better anti-piracy measures, but it's also a matter of killing two birds with one stone. If there are any ways one could possibly exploit the system, whether it's for account hacking or piracy or whatever, they're looking for ways to cover their back doors... but really, I fail to see why this really matters, what's done is done.

Quote:
I have a 360. I'm well aware of the digital downloads. However, given the lack of ubiquity of 360 HDDs (and publisher's persistence with outmoded region differentiation), it will remain a very minor distribution channel far into the foreseeable future as I said.
Where did I say it'd become mainstream? I only mentioned the service but you seem to want to argue a point where there really is none to make.

Quote:
Don't stand your 360 upright - that will destroy discs.
I've had my 360 standing up vertically since the day I bought it, absolute does nothing to the discs.



Quote:
Originally Posted by cire992
Makes me think, though. Nobody wants a console, what they really want to do is play the fun games that require the console.
Not really, a lot of people don't want to use their PC for video games because they see it as too much effort. With a console it's pretty much insert disc, press start.



@ Web Rider: This is because it's a pre-packaged deal. You know how there are companies like Dell that offer PC's that already have all the hardware set up for you? Believe it or not but the same system applies for those PC's. You do anything to that PC that isn't part of the specs and your warranty will be void. You can do anything you want to a product once you buy it, that's your choice... but then these companies have a right to say that if you do modify your system or try to tinker with it yourself, then your warranty is void.

With a PC you build yourself from the ground up on the other hand it's completely different. That's your PC, but then if you think about it, if there's a problem with, say, your DVD drive on your PC and you open it up to try to fix it yourself, then the manufacturer of that DVD drive will end up voiding whatever warranty was on that component.



I've never really had to deal with any issues with my consoles though. There was this one time when my SNES stopped working and I sent it into Nintendo and they fixed it up free of charge, but that was about it. I'm surprised my 360 has lived for as long as it has though considering how many others have died on everyone else. My brother went through 3 and his friend went through 4 before they gave up and bought PS3s lol.

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Old 10-22-2009, 09:40 AM   #21
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Heh, it doesn't worry me one bit. I've still have about 95 GB of free space on my HD. Either way, I've never used non-authorized memory devices for any console.
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Old 10-23-2009, 01:15 AM   #22
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Not really, a lot of people don't want to use their PC for video games because they see it as too much effort. With a console it's pretty much insert disc, press start.
Get real.


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Old 10-23-2009, 02:09 AM   #23
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Get real.
???
Plenty of people I know have a 360 or ps3 for that reason.
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Old 10-23-2009, 03:14 AM   #24
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Get real.
He is being real... its sad too, to find out a vast majority of humanity are lazy.


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Old 10-23-2009, 07:12 AM   #25
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He is being real... its sad too, to find out a vast majority of humanity are lazy.
Accessability is not laziness.

There are a lot of games I like that are never going to get a PC release for whatever reason. I also like using controllers over a keyboard + mouse, though I do like the keyboard + mouse combo for FPS games like a lot of other people. I also prefer to sit back on my couch and use my big screen TV and surround sound system to play. I don't have to worry about installs or whether or not I have the right hardware or even need to know that to begin with.


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Old 10-23-2009, 08:14 AM   #26
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Get real.
lol win! so full of win.


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Old 10-23-2009, 08:05 PM   #27
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Don't make fun of him, mav XD

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Old 10-23-2009, 09:00 PM   #28
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I didnt even know there was other kinds of memory devices...
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Old 10-24-2009, 05:38 AM   #29
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so, what's your point?? the technology that goes into the Wii continues to be much cheaper than the $200 price tag that it carries. yet for some reason, it just gets called "good business" instead of gouging.
spectacularly missing the pont.

the wii has no rivals manufactured by competitors that do exactly the same thing yet sold at a fraction of the price. hard drive makers are a dime a dozen and i don't think many are anywhere near as expensive as those sold by MS. this is basically the very definition of anti-competitive business practice really.
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Old 10-24-2009, 02:47 PM   #30
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hard drive makers are a dime a dozen and i don't think many are anywhere near as expensive as those sold by MS.
MS buys a container load of laptop HDDs from Western Digital and puts them in a $5 plastic case. Then sells them for 3 times what the drive inside normally retails for - http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/x...GB/default.htm

This update is about memory cards though. The official MS memory card is 512MB and has a RRP of US$29.95 - http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/x...mb/default.htm The main target of the update is Datel and their unofficial MAX memory cards. They come in 2GB and 4GB versions for US$39.99 and US$49.99 respectively. Not hard to see why people would buy them in preference to the official MS memory card.
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Old 10-24-2009, 07:09 PM   #31
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yup...also not hard to see what Microsoft would want them out of the picture.


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Old 10-24-2009, 11:55 PM   #32
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spectacularly missing the pont.
i don't know about you, but i'm referring to the game industry as a whole. if you want to narrow it down to the specific sector of console accessories, then i'd be more than happy to oblige you with examples, both past and present, in which console manufacturers consistently charge more for their accessories than it costs to make them. otherwise, the only person that's missing the point is yourself.
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the wii has no rivals manufactured by competitors that do exactly the same thing yet sold at a fraction of the price.
in english, please.
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Originally Posted by Scatter
hard drive makers are a dime a dozen and i don't think many are anywhere near as expensive as those sold by MS.
but seeing that the Xbox 360 is Microsoft's creation, legally, they have control over what devices can communicate and connect with the console. if it's their desire to make it so that only their hardware works with the 360 console, then that's their prerogative since they legally have the right to do so. if you don't like it, then you only have two options: don't buy the darned thing, or call your senator and complain to him/her about the laws not being fair.
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this is basically the very definition of anti-competitive business practice really
true, but its the very nature of marketing in a capitalistic society. if you can make something that people want, then you'll make a good amount of money. however, you'll make a lot more money if you can sell optional items for that item that are exclusive to that item. that's the way it works, and if the prices are too high, well, then perhaps you shouldn't have considered that item in the first place.

don't forget that the other part of capitalism is the consumer. you always have the choice to buy what you want to buy. complaining to everyone about something that you bought when you knew about a potential problem only speaks volumes about yourself and not about the thing you bought.


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Old 10-25-2009, 04:32 PM   #33
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Another thing to consider is that Microsoft finds it very difficult to make money (for their video game division specifically) from hardware sales for the 360. The only way they end up making money is through software sales and Xbox Live.

I know, as crazy as that sounds considering how cheaply hardware can be made, it took a long time for Microsoft to actually break even with their hardware for the first Xbox and with the 360 as well. Microsoft spends more than it makes, that was the problem.

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Old 10-25-2009, 04:42 PM   #34
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The Wii is pretty much the only console that has ever launched at a price above cost. Hardware is always a loss leader. Companies generally only start to make a profit on console hardware after about 2-3 years. Software is where the money is. Even with the ludicrous margins MS put on peripherals, the vast majority of their Xbox earnings is in software.
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Old 10-26-2009, 12:08 AM   #35
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Nintendo has been the only company to ever release a console that has launched at a price that makes profit for the company. In fact, Nintendo has been doing that since the SNES.

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Old 10-26-2009, 04:49 AM   #36
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Accessability is not laziness.
If you re-read the part of what you said that he quoted that I replied to it is indeed referring to a form of laziness...


"Beware the form-fitting black armor-clad Drow hottie with twin Mineral II Greensteel Khopeshes!"
"Liella d'Orien says, '"You're the fool, Devil. -- Witness the power of this fully ARMED and OPERATIONAL Titan!"'"
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Old 10-26-2009, 10:00 AM   #37
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XD Oh right.

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Old 10-28-2009, 03:13 AM   #38
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XD Oh right.
But you are right about the accessibility part, with a console just put in a disc and go to town on da couch with munchies you wouldn't dare eat near a keyboard.


"Beware the form-fitting black armor-clad Drow hottie with twin Mineral II Greensteel Khopeshes!"
"Liella d'Orien says, '"You're the fool, Devil. -- Witness the power of this fully ARMED and OPERATIONAL Titan!"'"
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Old 10-28-2009, 01:26 PM   #39
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Hey my 360 just bricked! Again. This one only lasted 2 months. Yay for 58% failure rates. I'm sticking with PC from now on.


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Old 10-29-2009, 12:15 AM   #40
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Hey my 360 just bricked! Again. This one only lasted 2 months. Yay for 58% failure rates. I'm sticking with PC from now on.
Some people are unlucky I guess lol. I held off getting a 360 for so long because I was so worried it'd RRoD on me.... but then I got my 360 elite and it's never given me any problems at all since day 1.

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