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Thread: Starkiller Again? Good or Bad Idea?
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Old 12-13-2009, 04:58 PM   #1
Darth Eclipse
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Starkiller Again? Good or Bad Idea?

Personally, I think it would've been cool to have Darth Maul, Darth Vader, or some other awesome Sith instead of Starkiller again, but Starkiller is perfectly fine too, as long as they can make it so it is still true to the story of TFU 1.

Sorry, I messed up with the poll. (Yes) means you want Starkiller again and (No) means you do not.



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Old 12-13-2009, 05:03 PM   #2
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I think it's a good idea. He was a good character and fun to play as. I just hope they can explain his apparent resurrection in a non-cheesy way.

I really want to know what became of Maris Brood.


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Old 12-13-2009, 06:41 PM   #3
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Yes! I don't think they explained enough in the first one.
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Old 12-13-2009, 07:11 PM   #4
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Not really mad about the idea of Starkiller somehow returning. It would have been better if time had been taken over TFU and his character expanded - it seemed very rushed.

I'm concerned over how the rather clear-cut end of Starkiller will be worked around. That in itself could serve to ruin the character. I would personally have preferred to see the return of Maris Brood as some kind of headline character (well it was a rather open-ended send off...) or a new character (though the idea of adding more Jedi to an already Jedi-populated post-Order-66-era is not appealing).

I'll keep an open mind, maybe, but a lot of my opinion would hinge on this explanation that we need.


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Old 12-13-2009, 07:24 PM   #5
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Darth Mall


In my opinion, I really don't mind his return. I'm just pissed because I was hoping for a new Jedi Knight game.
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Old 12-13-2009, 07:31 PM   #6
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Simple for me. If this storyline has him back and it's canon, it will be a detriment to the timeline and (more importantly) the first story. Simple as that. You can't have a fate like his and then bring him back to the dead without ****ing up the aforementioned fate. That's just not going to work. Besides, Star Wars has almost never used resurrection well in a plot, and I don't think there's much chance of it now.

I initially thought it likely that this is going to be a non-canon story, like the first one's special edition, but I'm having seconds thoughts, because we have no sign from this teaser trailer nor any word from LucasArts about it. In fact, they have said that it takes place after TFU but again before Episode IV, so that makes it even more likely to be a canon one. Furthermore, I suspect that they think that because bringing Starkiller back would be awesome, then they just might do it, even if it's crazy in light of what happened to him. Caring about things being awesome is good, but I think they are in grave danger of caring too much about being too awesome.

Yeah, it's true, back before TFU came out and heard rumors about playing the apprentice of Vader, we thought it was crazy, and that LucasArts wouldn't do it, and they did it. Then I thought it was too crazy for them to put two good endings into that game, and they did it.

But having Starkiller back from the dead is too crazy to do... OR IS IT???


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Old 12-13-2009, 07:43 PM   #7
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I'm concerned over how the rather clear-cut end of Starkiller will be worked around. That in itself could serve to ruin the character. I would personally have preferred to see the return of Maris Brood as some kind of headline character (well it was a rather open-ended send off...) or a new character (though the idea of adding more Jedi to an already Jedi-populated post-Order-66-era is not appealing).
Well, if you think about it, Galen isn't really a Jedi. The Jedi were an organization, and Galen was never inducted into the Jedi Order. Sure, he uses the Force and wields a lightsaber, and may have even thought of himself as a Jedi toward the end of the first game; but bear in mind that he also considered himself a Sith as well, which he technically was not. Both the Jedi and the Sith are organizations with set beliefs that an individual must join, and simply following the light or dark side ad brandishing a lightsaber does not automatically make one a Jedi or Sith.

In light of this, if you think about it, Kyle Katarn was never a Jedi until the very last installment in the series, Jedi Academy, where he was shown to have joined the New Jedi Order and served as a Jedi Master and trainer.


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Old 12-13-2009, 08:03 PM   #8
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I like the idea of playing as Galen again..the only thing is working around dying they will have to make this very believable, make it true to SW even though I have never heard of this (resurrecting) happening before.





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Old 12-13-2009, 08:26 PM   #9
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Yeah, I hoped since the rather final conculsion of the game - backed up in the novel which they said was canon - that they would treat Force Unleashed as a platform and that Starkiller could be done... I loved him as a character, but its over... You have a bunch of novels post-jedi, or pre-prequals you could adapt using the engine and i would so prefer that to some continuity-defying plot with Starkiller... Maybe they have a plan but even if they push it with this one, I would be thrilled for FU 3 to be a platform with Luke etc. from General THrawn time period for example...
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Old 12-13-2009, 08:41 PM   #10
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I don't care honestly. The first TFU didn't make me care too much for the character anyways.
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Old 12-13-2009, 09:04 PM   #11
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I thought they were going to continue the alternative saga with Starkiller as the master and Luke being the new player character for Force unleash2.

I don't know if they should bring him back from the dead, but it could be interesting if they can someway use it to hurt the Rebellion's moral. Right now Starkiller's death had a purpose and now they are taking it away. I will hope they have a good plot to make sense of this.....

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Old 12-13-2009, 10:03 PM   #12
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Well, if you think about it, Galen isn't really a Jedi. The Jedi were an organization, and Galen was never inducted into the Jedi Order. Sure, he uses the Force and wields a lightsaber, and may have even thought of himself as a Jedi toward the end of the first game; but bear in mind that he also considered himself a Sith as well, which he technically was not. Both the Jedi and the Sith are organizations with set beliefs that an individual must join, and simply following the light or dark side ad brandishing a lightsaber does not automatically make one a Jedi or Sith.
What about Luke? The Jedi Order was completely gone by the time of RoTJ, but Yoda said he was the last of the Jedi. Just because there is no Order does not mean one cannot proclaim to be a Jedi. Especially if that one was trained under the guidance of a master (Starkiller by Kota!)

The novel might detail on Starkillers death, but in the game it is kind of left open. Vader says that he is dead but there is no visible proof that he is. And isn't the game more factual than the novel? The game was the main focus for the story line, and they just expanded on that with other media. Some versions of the novel list Starkiller's name as Jacob Nion, which is non-canon.
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Old 12-13-2009, 10:55 PM   #13
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The novel might detail on Starkillers death, but in the game it is kind of left open. Vader says that he is dead but there is no visible proof that he is.
No evidence except for the fact that he was in the middle of a huge explosion and his body doesn't even so much as twitch, and the fact that if he was still alive, Vader or Sidious would notice (or they're both incredibly sloppy).

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And isn't the game more factual than the novel?
I don't see why that would be. If anything, they're the same canon level. The game does not contradict the novel, which spells out the fact that Starkiller is dead as a doornail. Therefore, he canonically died.

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Some versions of the novel list Starkiller's name as Jacob Nion, which is non-canon.
I'm pretty sure that's due to a translation error or something.


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Old 12-13-2009, 11:23 PM   #14
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What about Luke? The Jedi Order was completely gone by the time of RoTJ, but Yoda said he was the last of the Jedi.
Well, there's your answer right there. Yoda, Luke's master, knighted him into the Jedi Order, but he set it to be done automatically at a certain point in time, you might say, after certain criteria were met (namely that he had to defeat Darth Vader). Many knighting methods were used by the Jedi over the millennia, not all of them completely orthodox.

Luke was what I like to call the "bridge Jedi": the last of the old and the first of the new.

Kota, on the other hand, never knighted Galen officially. Moreover, he never officially proclaimed himself Galen's master. The same can be said for Katarn and Rawn.

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The novel might detail on Starkillers death, but in the game it is kind of left open. Vader says that he is dead but there is no visible proof that he is. And isn't the game more factual than the novel? The game was the main focus for the story line, and they just expanded on that with other media. Some versions of the novel list Starkiller's name as Jacob Nion, which is non-canon.
True, but the point is that the problem should be resolved in the novel as well. Most fans don't like things to be rendered apocryphal because they can't work anymore.

To say that the game is more factual than the novel is debatable, because they are both on the same level of canonicity. It isn't the same as the film novelizations, where the films take precedence over the novels. With The Force Unleashed, we have two equal, but slightly different, accounts of the same events.

And I believe it is only in the German version of the novel where Galen Marek is called Jacob Nion, because "Marek" means something silly in German, I think. (Interestingly, Bruce Wayne's official name in the Spanish-speaking countries is Bruno Diaz.)


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Old 12-14-2009, 01:28 AM   #15
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Well, there's your answer right there. Yoda, Luke's master, knighted him into the Jedi Order, but he set it to be done automatically at a certain point in time, you might say, after certain criteria were met (namely that he had to defeat Darth Vader). Many knighting methods were used by the Jedi over the millennia, not all of them completely orthodox.
You were implying that Marek could not be a Jedi due to there not being a Jedi order. So how could Yoda knight Luke if the Order did not exist?

Quote:
To say that the game is more factual than the novel is debatable, because they are both on the same level of canonicity. It isn't the same as the film novelizations, where the films take precedence over the novels. With The Force Unleashed, we have two equal, but slightly different, accounts of the same events.
But TFU was first based as a game. Writers had already wrote the story for the game, the story was then given to an author to be elaborated on. In some cases authors make the mistake of writing something that is contradicting to the actual source.

So if the game does not visually depict Marek dead, just Vader's statement that he is, and the novel elaborates on his death in more detail, which would be more canon?

Quote:
And I believe it is only in the German version of the novel where Galen Marek is called Jacob Nion, because "Marek" means something silly in German, I think. (Interestingly, Bruce Wayne's official name in the Spanish-speaking countries is Bruno Diaz.)
Starkiller's original name was supposed to be Jacob Nion but was changed to Galen Marek shortly before the game's release. Because of early releases of the novel, Marek's name was kept as Jacob Nion in the German translation. This means that the Novel first was intended to identify the character as Nion and then this draft was released in Germany before the change.

EDIT: Away from this debate, it could be possible that Vader was able to some how save Marek from certain death. Vader's quotes seem to me to be new, if so then he could have said such things to Marek after being resuscitated. Vader then could have sent Marek to hunt down Yoda, while filling Marek's head with more lies. Yoda revealed the truth to Marek about who Vader really was and how he turned to the dark side.


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Old 12-14-2009, 03:03 AM   #16
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You were implying that Marek could not be a Jedi due to there not being a Jedi order. So how could Yoda knight Luke if the Order did not exist?
No, that was not what I was implying. The Jedi Order never ceased to exist. It existed among those Jedi who were part of the Order and still lived. (This would include not just Obi-Wan and Yoda, but Kota and all of the Jedi who survived the Purge. I theorize that, in Yoda's mind, only he, Obi-Wan, and then Luke were truly worthy of still being called Jedi because they wished to rebuild the order, while the others had forsaken it and only cared about their own survival.) It is just like the Sith: one survived and carried on the line of succession. The Jedi Order works the same way.

What I am implying is that Marek was never made part of the Order.

Quote:
So if the game does not visually depict Marek dead, just Vader's statement that he is, and the novel elaborates on his death in more detail, which would be more canon?
Point taken, though I still would like to see the book's ending worked out somehow.

Quote:
Starkiller's original name was supposed to be Jacob Nion but was changed to Galen Marek shortly before the game's release. Because of early releases of the novel, Marek's name was kept as Jacob Nion in the German translation. This means that the Novel first was intended to identify the character as Nion and then this draft was released in Germany before the change.
I stand corrected.


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Old 12-14-2009, 03:40 AM   #17
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No, that was not what I was implying. The Jedi Order never ceased to exist. It existed among those Jedi who were part of the Order and still lived. (This would include not just Obi-Wan and Yoda, but Kota and all of the Jedi who survived the Purge. I theorize that, in Yoda's mind, only he, Obi-Wan, and then Luke were truly worthy of still being called Jedi because they wished to rebuild the order, while the others had forsaken it and only cared about their own survival.) It is just like the Sith: one survived and carried on the line of succession. The Jedi Order works the same way.

What I am implying is that Marek was never made part of the Order.
It seems that I have misunderstood your "certain point of view"!


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Old 12-14-2009, 10:23 AM   #18
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I always saw TFU as a Caricature of Star Wars, and a bit of Fun, So his being alive still is just... more Fun

If I Canonized TFU in my mind, then I'm kinda retconning the OT, he's too Powerful tbh, so, although apparently Canon, It's Just good fun to me so it don't matter


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Old 12-14-2009, 10:47 AM   #19
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I am looking forward to the explanation to how Starkiller survived that explosion. It's really not a stretch since he was very close to Sidious when the explosion happened, so for Sidious to not have a scratch on him and Starkiller dying was a little odd to me. That is why I created another thread about Starkiller's possible return this last March.


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Old 12-14-2009, 01:18 PM   #20
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It's stupid. He should be dead. And we should get JK4 Still... I hope we get FU2 for the PC from the start. Not like the first one just a port Some moding tools and multiplayer and it could be a solid release.
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Old 12-14-2009, 02:48 PM   #21
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surviving the explosion isn't the big problem(after all the guy survived a ship straight in the head in the dark side ending),the big problem is,the guy was lying on the ground with two sith lords looking at him and saying he's dead.

did they just leave him there and called the janitor to clean up the mess? lol
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Old 12-14-2009, 02:51 PM   #22
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If I could Juggle Rancor's, and Create Force Storms, I could probably survive a Night on the Death Star TBH


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Old 12-14-2009, 06:13 PM   #23
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I'm not sure about the idea of having Galen back. It was clearly implied he was dead and I was hoping if there was a FU2, it would be not in the Empire era but earlier.

Trying to explain his resurrection and make it believable will be hard. And the fact is, he will have to die again to keep it canon.

I do like the possibility of having the option of wielding dual lightsabres (and hopefully the double lightsabre).

If there is a need to use Starkiller again, I do hope he comes across Yoda.

I'm still iffy on the idea, but there is no doubt I will get this game.
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Old 12-14-2009, 06:48 PM   #24
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Hey guys, what I'm about to say is a real stretch, and I am absolutely positive that this will not happen, but there is a way around the Galen-must-die-because-he's-too-powerful-to-be-around-during-the-Rebellion-era problem: in the Tales of the Jedi comics, the Jedi use a technique to cut off the former Sith Lord Ulic Qel-Droma's connection to the Force. This same technique was attempted with the Jedi Exile in Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords when the Jedi Council tried to cut her off from the Force because she was such a risk, before Kreia intervened and killed them all before it could be done.

If the Emperor and Vader somehow capture Galen Marek and perform this same ritual on him, perhaps because they feel it would actually be easier than killing him as he is quite powerful in the Force, and if he escapes thereafter with no Force powers, that would solve the problem. (Or, believing himself to be a danger to the Alliance, he could even volunteer to have this done to him by Yoda and Rom Kota.) Galen could go on to serve as a prominent military commander in the Rebel Alliance, and he would not upstage Luke.

I've kind of always wanted to see this happen ever since they released that bonus costume of him as a Rebel leader; although he is perhaps depicted as a bit too aged with that skin. Since the events of The Force Unleashed occur only two years before A New Hope, that would mean that he would be close to Luke and Leia's age (though she, in turn, looks a little too young in the game, as do her father and Mon Mothma).

Again, I repeat: I am one hundred percent positive that this will not happen, but it would be a great way to circumvent having him "die" once again. As we've learned from Neo's final death in The Matrix, an earlier death and resurrection (or false death) greatly cheapens the character's "real" demise.

Just a thought. I wouldn't mind seeing something like that.


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Old 12-14-2009, 07:28 PM   #25
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hello all!
so so so many questions for our best sith/jedi ^^

I remember the death jedi are cremated ( Qui Gon, Anakin...) so I think Galen is not death, he use a "tip", he plays death no??
Also, In the TFU II trailer, he has a scar on his temple, so or it's due to the Palpatine's duel or it's due in the arena!

I can't wait this wonderfull game, and I trust to lucasart team to make us the best star wars game of this decade (or I want to believe ^^ )

sorry for my bad english, I hope you understand me
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Old 12-14-2009, 08:59 PM   #26
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It's stupid. He should be dead. And we should get JK4 Still... I hope we get FU2 for the PC from the start. Not like the first one just a port Some moding tools and multiplayer and it could be a solid release.
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Old 12-15-2009, 03:59 AM   #27
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I remember the death jedi are cremated ( Qui Gon, Anakin...) so I think Galen is not death, he use a "tip", he plays death no??
Not all death Jedi are cremated. Besides, in Anakin's case, what's being cremated is just the suit.
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Old 12-15-2009, 11:02 AM   #28
Te Darasuum Mandalor
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I think that the force unleashed 2 should follow Jacano (pronounced Yuck-on-oh) Jonash Shan-Ablis, clone wars veteren and Jedi council member. He was a good friend of Obi Wan and actually is the father of Han Solo who is his illigitimate son. He also was suportive of Kota's idea for a militia just incase his clone legion got out of hand.
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Old 12-15-2009, 11:47 AM   #29
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You don't like the game. We get it! Yet, you're still here...
You'd like that wouldn't you Shem? It actually growed on me. I'm just saying JK 4 would be better. You really need to stop looking for likes and dont's where there are none.
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Old 12-15-2009, 02:13 PM   #30
Zerimar Nyliram
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Well, I think they ought to make a JK3 first (Jedi Academy was more of a spin-off than a sequel).


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YOURS VERY SLOW ! PLS NEW PROGRESSS PLS NEW UPDATES PLS DARK FORCES FİNAL VERSİON İ CAN WAİTİNG KOTF PART 1 RELEASED 5 YEAR AND İTS 1 MAN ( OSMAN GUNYAZ DEVELOPERS ) BUT YOURS VERY PEOPLE İ CANT WAİTİNG 5 YEARS
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Old 12-15-2009, 02:36 PM   #31
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I think I would prefer a "The Legos Unleashed" game lol.

Joking


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Old 12-16-2009, 09:33 AM   #32
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I think too many fans go crazy concerning the "canonicity" of Star Wars, especially concerning the 'Expanded Universe". To me the EU is optional canon, fun apocrypha but when considering the literal meaning of "canon" (the original material, to me the films) it really is not. Anyway, so as long as Starkiller's resurrection is made believable as it pertains to the plot of the Force Unleashed then I am OK with it.

Still I have to admit I was shocked, though not really disappointed, when I heard of this sequel and saw the trailer. To me the idea itself is not inherently bad but it all depends on the execution. To me it's too early to fairly judge the new game. Storyline is important but so is game play which in itself can make up for storyline phoopas. Though I should say, I wished we got another Jedi Knight game too.
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Old 12-16-2009, 11:41 PM   #33
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Darth Mall? That's worth a sig quote.

Anyway, I'm not sure at this point if it's a good idea or not. I don't think we can really answer that question till we learn more about the game and it's story.

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Old 12-17-2009, 02:14 AM   #34
GeneralPloKoon
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I think I would prefer a "The Legos Unleashed" game lol.

Joking
Actually, I totally would!
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Old 12-28-2009, 10:32 PM   #35
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They might be able to do something interesting with it so I say they should bring him back.
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Old 01-20-2010, 01:47 PM   #36
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Actually, I totally would!
Okay, fine. That would be incredible.


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Old 01-24-2010, 02:52 PM   #37
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I think it's a good idea. He was a good character and fun to play as. I just hope they can explain his apparent resurrection in a non-cheesy way.

I really want to know what became of Maris Brood.
I agree ,maris brood might become Galen Marek or Master Kota apprentice.


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Old 02-08-2010, 10:23 AM   #38
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I agree ,maris brood might become Galen Marek or Master Kota apprentice.
I doubt it, but hopefully we will see her at some point.


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Old 02-17-2010, 07:35 AM   #39
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What could be this monster in the background? I think, it seems like a rancor...
http://www.lucasarts.com/games/theforceunleashed2/
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Old 02-17-2010, 09:22 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GalenMarek View Post
What could be this monster in the background? I think, it seems like a rancor...
http://www.lucasarts.com/games/theforceunleashed2/
Unidentified rancor-throwing creature


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