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Old 04-24-2010, 04:06 PM   #1
Endorenna
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Dragon Age--What's the best class/race to start as?

I just got Dragon Age for my birthday. I'm going to start it in a bit, and (as the thread title says) I was wondering what class/race is easiest for a first playthrough.

PS: I would've posted this in the main Dragon Age thread, but I didn't want to see any spoilers, hehe. >_<


Chapter 12 of A Soul Adrift is out.

Short stories:
T'katlu: On the planet Felucia, a young apprentice of the Dark Side thinks back to the beginning of her training as she lies in wait for her prey...

All the Time: After four years in the Unknown Regions, the Exile returns to the known galaxy to visit an old enemy.

Broken: A master of the Dark Side finds himself about to lose the one thing he cares about--and he will do anything to stop her from endangering herself.
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Old 04-24-2010, 04:28 PM   #2
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Warrior of any Race. It's the easiest... the mage is one of the hardest to play as... haha...
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Old 04-24-2010, 04:34 PM   #3
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funwise id go with mage because of the variety different effects he/she can cause but for survival and pure ownage id pick warrior - i was never a fan of rogue.

Race? I'd go with elf or human - not a fan of dwarves

If you pick elf go with the city elf origin story - more fun.


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Old 04-24-2010, 04:37 PM   #4
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Mage is, from what I have heard the most powerfull class by far. Unfourtantely, it's also so much fun playing as a mage that I have been unable to play as anything else (yes, I know I could always use npc mages, but if I want two in my party I'd have to put up with Wynne), so you have been warned. Thing is, in DA, mages are almost as powerfull as they tend to be in fiction, they can stun in a huge area, unleash a storm more powerfull than a nuke, heal/resurect allies, or send anyone who gets close flying. As for race, I'm not sure what difference it makes, as mages aren't exactly liked by most people, even if they are human.

edit: how the heck is a mage hard to play? Did you guys forget to pick up the ice and ward spells? I'll admit that a mage needs more micro management, but DA is an easy game, so you can screw up quite a bit with the spells and still be a medieval VMD.

Another reason for playing as a mage: since it's basically a requirement to have at least one mage in your party, and since you'll controll your mage party member(s) most of the time, it's more immersive to pick the class that you'll controll the most.


Checking out seems not to do much.

Last edited by mur'phon; 04-24-2010 at 04:45 PM.
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Old 04-24-2010, 04:57 PM   #5
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Mages are by far the most powerful, as mur'phon said, however, it really boils down to preference. The game is pretty doable with any class, however, I find the warrior to be EXTREMELY boring. Warriors in DA essentially auto attack (they literally have nothing but a bunch of auto attack abilities) for all 20 or so hours of combat.

Mages are really fun, lots of variety and different playstyles (can freeze a dude, blow up a group, raise an inferno, place weaknesses, stun, heal, protect, etc...)

Rogues are also really fun; I've only played on for a few hours, but it says a lot about a class that can be fun at the beginning of the game when you only have like 2 abilities. I'd just suggest avoiding warrior unless your a big roleplayer and want to fit in with the role of "human noble warrior" or something of the like.
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Old 04-24-2010, 04:57 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Endorenna View Post
I just got Dragon Age for my birthday. I'm going to start it in a bit, and (as the thread title says) I was wondering what class/race is easiest for a first playthrough.
My first character was a mage, and while your repetoire of spells is somewhat limited early on you will eventually be able to pick up enough spells (from levelups, books, plot events etc) to be able to handle pretty much any situation. There is something morbidly satisfying about being able to clean out a whole room full of bad guys before they even know you're there (my mage the Storm of the Century spell combo).

For mage specializations (you can learn them at level 7 and 14) I'd pick Spirit Healer and Arcane Warrior. Spirit Healer is very helpful in keeping your group alive and healthy, while Arcane Warrior allows you to wear armor as a mage (lets you use the Magic attribute instead of Strength to meet equipment requirements for armor and weapons). Not only helpful in staying alive, but also essential from a fashion standpoint since the mage robes in Ðragon Age look absolutely horrid.

Since I like playing out-of-the-ordinary characters I'd recommend Female Elven Mage, since all those 3 are things that various NPCs will raise an eyebrow about when they meet you as a Grey Warden. (Duncan's whole crew aside from you was made up of human male rogue/warrior Wardens, according to Alistair.)

(There are also some parts of the game in Redcliffe you can only do as a mage, so if you aren't one yourself you'd have to use Wynne or Morrigan instead, which gives very limited dialog choices for that.)


mt
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Old 04-24-2010, 05:20 PM   #7
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While I agree that spirit healer is a good specialization, I'd go with Blood Magic instead of Arcane Warrior. It lets you cast some spells without mana (more usefull than you'd think, as you can always heal yourself/have others heal you afterwards), and gives you a devastating area of effect spell that doesen't harm allies, as well as the ability to mind controll (or damage like hell if they happen to be bosses). The only problem with Blood Magic is , if you, like many others RP as yourself on the first playthrough, you'd either have to be a self serving bastard, or (like me) rather utilitarian to justify the choice neccesary, that, and it isn't easy to know that when you have your opportunity to learn BM. Without really spoiling anything, aside from letting you know when you have got the choice,
Show spoiler
And if you want to know the hub area you get it in,
Show spoiler


Oh, and assuming you keeep freezing/stunning/blasting enemies that get close to you, you aren't going to have much need for armor (aside from the looks of course), and IIRC even Arcane Warriors will have to spend a fair bit more mana on each spell while wearing armor.


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Old 04-24-2010, 05:30 PM   #8
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While I agree that spirit healer is a good specialization, I'd go with Blood Magic instead of Arcane Warrior. It lets you cast some spells without mana (more usefull than you'd think, as you can always heal yourself/have others heal you afterwards), and gives you a devastating area of effect spell that doesen't harm allies, as well as the ability to mind controll (or damage like hell if they happen to be bosses).
Blood Magic is also made out to be something only Evil Bastards dabble in (so I let Morrigan learn it at level 14 ) since it's the Forbidden school of magic i ÐA lore. Though there are actually disappointingly few consequences for learning and using it, so it's mostly a roleplaying issue.

Generally I've only found Blood Magic to be mildly useful, really. Rather disappointing since everyone you talk to seem to think Blood Mages are extremely powerful (and certain cutscenes seems to imply that as well). Sure, Blood Wound is a very good spell and the nearly whole reason to pick it up unless you're dabbling in special builds*. Though given how extremely common Lyrium potions are in the game (and you can always make more yourself if you learn Herbalism) I've never found running out of mana to be much of an issue. But other than that there are plenty of other mass disabler spells like Sleep, Mass Paralysis etc so BM doesn't bring that much unique to the table.

And the Blood Control ability can be a double-edged sword. If the victim dies while they're dominated (either from the damage from the spell itself or killed by their allies) you won't get any experience points for their death since they aren't hostile to you.

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Oh, and assuming you keeep freezing/stunning/blasting enemies that get close to you, you aren't going to have much need for armor (aside from the looks of course), and IIRC even Arcane Warriors will have to spend a fair bit more mana on each spell while wearing armor.
Yep, Cone of Cold and Glyph of Repulsion are very useful for staying alive. But if you wear an armor set that gives you fatigue reduction as a set bonus then your spells will actually be cheaper to cast than if you were casting them wearing a robe, since you end up with negative fatigue. The drake/dragon armor from Wade can be used for this, for example.



*: Blood Mage and Arcane Warrior can be a very potent combo since it allows you to use up all your mana for sustained enchantments/buffs and then use blood magic to cast active spells from health.


mt
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Old 04-24-2010, 05:34 PM   #9
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As others have said, definitely choose warrior as your class. As for races, well, it all comes down to personal preference - I went with an elf and chose the Dalish origin story. Now, after seeing the other origin stories, I have to say the Dalish Elf origin was the best.

Now, when it comes to specializations, I must admit, I never found any use for them - I actually spec'd my first character right before the finale.

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Old 04-24-2010, 06:51 PM   #10
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Hmm...well, in other games I've played, warriors/soldiers always seemed kinda boring to play, and casters/(whatever you call people who use subtlety over brute force) were always a lot more fun, so I think I'll start with a mage or a rogue. Since there hasn't been much love for rogues in here so far, mage seems like the best thing to go with for now.

As far as spec goes...hmm...I'll probably want to grab Spirit Healer so I won't have to waste a companion slot for a healer, and the second one...I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.

So--female ('cuz I always play as a girl first) elf ('cuz Coercion sounds like a good thing to have from the get-go) mage. I'm off to the character creator.

Thanks, guys.


Chapter 12 of A Soul Adrift is out.

Short stories:
T'katlu: On the planet Felucia, a young apprentice of the Dark Side thinks back to the beginning of her training as she lies in wait for her prey...

All the Time: After four years in the Unknown Regions, the Exile returns to the known galaxy to visit an old enemy.

Broken: A master of the Dark Side finds himself about to lose the one thing he cares about--and he will do anything to stop her from endangering herself.
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Old 04-24-2010, 07:14 PM   #11
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I've preferred Rogue myself for the simple reason that it allows me to open more locked chests/doors without having to bring my own rogue along on every mission.


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Old 04-24-2010, 08:58 PM   #12
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One more question. I saw during character creation that only one origin was open to me--do the others open up after a playthrough, or is my elf mage forever stuck with the Dalish elf opening? (I'm gonna make a rogue next anyway, so it doesn't really matter--just wondering if it's possible for an elf mage to be a City elf, haha.)


Chapter 12 of A Soul Adrift is out.

Short stories:
T'katlu: On the planet Felucia, a young apprentice of the Dark Side thinks back to the beginning of her training as she lies in wait for her prey...

All the Time: After four years in the Unknown Regions, the Exile returns to the known galaxy to visit an old enemy.

Broken: A master of the Dark Side finds himself about to lose the one thing he cares about--and he will do anything to stop her from endangering herself.
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Old 04-24-2010, 09:02 PM   #13
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Origin story is mostly based on race, but here goes...

Human: Warrior/Rogue - Human Noble story
Dwarf: - Choice of Noble Dwarf or Commoner Dwarf
Elf: Warrior/Rogue - Choice of City Elf/Dalish Elf

All Mage's have mage origin story.

At least that's how I remember it working, haven't played in a long while though.


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Old 04-25-2010, 06:31 AM   #14
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Blood Magic is also made out to be something only Evil Bastards dabble in
Well, yes, but since it's made out to be godlike in cutscences, I found it hard to justify my character not learning it, because of me being the chosen one and all that.

Quote:
Generally I've only found Blood Magic to be mildly useful, really.
Agreed, however I'd argue that the other specializations (aside from SH) are even worse)

Quote:
Though given how extremely common Lyrium potions are in the game (and you can always make more yourself if you learn Herbalism) I've never found running out of mana to be much of an issue
Because the game is so easy, potions are insanely powerfull, and because I dislike how the game handles dificulty at higher levels, I only use lyrium potions in the harder battles, and even then I restrict myself.

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But other than that there are plenty of other mass disabler spells like Sleep, Mass Paralysis etc so BM doesn't bring that much unique to the table.
It's a long time since I played DA, so do those spells only target foes, let you attack them without breaking the stun, do a fair bit of damage and are hard to resist? I'm not using the spell as my primary mass dissabler (crossing glyphs are better), it's mainly used either when I'm swarmed or to dispatch hordes of archers/mages.


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Old 04-25-2010, 09:09 AM   #15
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So...how's the shapeshifter spec compared to blood and arcane warrior?


Chapter 12 of A Soul Adrift is out.

Short stories:
T'katlu: On the planet Felucia, a young apprentice of the Dark Side thinks back to the beginning of her training as she lies in wait for her prey...

All the Time: After four years in the Unknown Regions, the Exile returns to the known galaxy to visit an old enemy.

Broken: A master of the Dark Side finds himself about to lose the one thing he cares about--and he will do anything to stop her from endangering herself.
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Old 04-25-2010, 09:20 AM   #16
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Useless.
The forms aren't exactly powerfull, it takes time to shapeshift and you can't cast spells while shifted, and since running ut of mana is unlikely to be a problem as long as you plan a bit (or use potions) you'll never be in a situation where you'd want to shapeshift. I played the whole game with Morrigan in my party, not once did I shift her (excluding the handfull of times I tested it).


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Old 04-25-2010, 12:18 PM   #17
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Useless.
The forms aren't exactly powerfull, it takes time to shapeshift and you can't cast spells while shifted, and since running ut of mana is unlikely to be a problem as long as you plan a bit (or use potions) you'll never be in a situation where you'd want to shapeshift. I played the whole game with Morrigan in my party, not once did I shift her (excluding the handfull of times I tested it).
Agreed, the Shapeshifter might have been a fun specialization if it wasn't utterly crippled by the way it was designed. In addition what was mentioned above all the Shapeshifter forms have atrociously long recharge times, and every time you enter dialog or a cutscene you will be forced out of your shapeshifted form. So any situation where the enemies like to chat before or during battle will leave you without your shapeshift form and unable to re-enter it for the rest of the fight. The same applies if you encounter enemies with abilities that dispels magic since a dispel will end your shapeshifting form as well.

The only remotely useful ability the forms have, in my opinion, is the Overwhelm talent which is handy for dealing with enemy casters. But as a mage you'll have plenty of other means at your disposal for disabling an enemy. And if you like playing with Overwhelm you can just bring along your Mabari dog instead since he can learn it too


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Old 04-25-2010, 01:00 PM   #18
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Shapeshifter is a much more interesting proposition with a mod like this, but yeah the vanilla version is basically useless. In fact most of the specialisations across all classes leave a bit to be desired.
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Old 04-25-2010, 03:54 PM   #19
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Haha, okay. So: skip shapeshifter for now (since I'm not using mods the first time through...probably will later, 'cuz that mod looks pretty good), get Spirit Healing unless I want to drag a healer (Wynne, I'm guessing) along the whole game, and I guess the Blood/Arcane spec really depends on how sick I am of the mage's quilted dresses by then.


Chapter 12 of A Soul Adrift is out.

Short stories:
T'katlu: On the planet Felucia, a young apprentice of the Dark Side thinks back to the beginning of her training as she lies in wait for her prey...

All the Time: After four years in the Unknown Regions, the Exile returns to the known galaxy to visit an old enemy.

Broken: A master of the Dark Side finds himself about to lose the one thing he cares about--and he will do anything to stop her from endangering herself.
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Old 04-25-2010, 05:50 PM   #20
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If you want to drag along a healer, I'd rather use Morrigan because Wynne suffers from a lack of funny lines and an abundance of preachy ones, also other companions lines to her are a lot more fun (especially Allistars). Morrigan will be just as good a healer once she picks up the specialization, and even before she does that, there won't be much difference as it takes a few levels to unlock all the tallents.


Checking out seems not to do much.
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Old 04-25-2010, 06:44 PM   #21
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Quote:
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If you want to drag along a healer, I'd rather use Morrigan because Wynne suffers from a lack of funny lines and an abundance of preachy ones, also other companions lines to her are a lot more fun (especially Allistars). Morrigan will be just as good a healer once she picks up the specialization, and even before she does that, there won't be much difference as it takes a few levels to unlock all the tallents.
But she disapproves... of everything. Absolutely everything.

Exhibit A

Morrigan guards the camp in my games for that very reason. Gets somewhat tiring to have someone questioning your every move and giving you exceptionally bad advise all the time. And she's a lot easier to keep happy if she's left in the camp.


mt
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Old 04-25-2010, 06:51 PM   #22
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But she disapproves... of everything. Absolutely everything.

Morrigan guards the camp in my games for that very reason. Gets somewhat tiring to have someone questioning your every move and giving you exceptionally bad advise all the time. And she's a lot easier to keep happy if she's left in the camp.
Not quite. You just have to know how to work her You don't always have to get a "Morrigan disapproves -___" haha... I have made it to where I've had 100% influence with her and I've made her do what I want, without losing influence You just have to know which lines to choose :P
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Old 04-25-2010, 06:58 PM   #23
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We have different playstyles, I'm basically a pragmatist, so she's not that pissed at me, besides, the only people who don't disagreee half the time with me are Dog, Oghren and Zhev, and of those, only Zhev has a sence of humor. Also, since Morrigan likes anything shiny, and since shiny stuff is everywhere, it's not exactly hard to bribe her happy.

Anyways, keep in mind that the alternative is Wynne, who is a lot more preachy when she disaproves. Besides, I'm not bringing her along to advice me, I bring her along so that she can embaras Allistar, and be offended by Leliana.

Getting 100% with any character isn't hard at all, at the end of the game I believe only Oghren didn't have a 100% aproval rating of me.


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Old 04-25-2010, 07:53 PM   #24
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But she disapproves... of everything. Absolutely everything.


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Old 04-25-2010, 09:13 PM   #25
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Finished DA:O not that long ago, after a 100 hour journey through Ferelden. Played as a Human Noble Rogue, specialized in Archery. Playing a Rogue Archer is a bitch in the first chapters of the game, though I guess it's as difficult for every player who doesn't have a healer in the party.

Morrigan initially disapproved of many of my decisions, but I eventually got to 100% approval rate with her. She isn't half as bad/boring as much of the other characters.


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Old 04-26-2010, 12:19 AM   #26
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Yet another question, hehe. If I become a blood mage, will that lower Alistair's approval? (I know I can get it back with gifts, but I'd prefer not to lose it at all.)

Also, do y'all have any tips for keeping Alistair happy after I've picked up Zevran? I intend to bring them both along all the time 'cuz I need a rogue (I don't like Leliana) and Alistair's more fun to talk to than anyone else so far, and I'd prefer not to alienate either of them. (Spoilers are fine.)

One more question. Are the chances of the dog finding me good stuff worth taking up a character slot with him?


Chapter 12 of A Soul Adrift is out.

Short stories:
T'katlu: On the planet Felucia, a young apprentice of the Dark Side thinks back to the beginning of her training as she lies in wait for her prey...

All the Time: After four years in the Unknown Regions, the Exile returns to the known galaxy to visit an old enemy.

Broken: A master of the Dark Side finds himself about to lose the one thing he cares about--and he will do anything to stop her from endangering herself.
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Old 04-26-2010, 02:41 AM   #27
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No matter what you choose, you can't lower/raise approval with the class updates. so no - if u become a blood mage - his approval won't diminish in any way


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Old 04-26-2010, 06:02 AM   #28
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Well, a recent Gift DLC seems to me a great way to get ALL of your party members to 100%.

This DLC is also a great way to *keep* you party members at 100%.

Heck, i romanced both Morrigan and Zevran in less than 3 minutes of each other.

Gonna try Morrigan and Leliana next.


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Old 04-26-2010, 07:18 AM   #29
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Yet another question, hehe. If I become a blood mage, will that lower Alistair's approval? (I know I can get it back with gifts, but I'd prefer not to lose it at all.)
No, there are disappointingly few consequences for being a Blood Mage. Everyone will still talk about other blood mages with fear and revulsion and just quietly ignore that the person they're talking to is one themselves.

The only real consequence is in how you acquire it, that I can remember. You will...
Show spoiler
And even that won't really have any in-game consequences I'm aware of, that's just roleplaying stuff that's mentioned in the epilogue IIRC.

I guess you can justify it by Grey Warden mages not being under Chantry jurisdiction and the Wardens not forbidding use of blood magic. But just because it's technically legal it doesn't mean that the "Oh crap Blood magic!" people have to approve.

(Heck you can even make Wynne a blood mage herself at level 14 and she won't react to it. )

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Also, do y'all have any tips for keeping Alistair happy after I've picked up Zevran? I intend to bring them both along all the time 'cuz I need a rogue (I don't like Leliana) and Alistair's more fun to talk to than anyone else so far, and I'd prefer not to alienate either of them. (Spoilers are fine.)
I don't think there is any way around getting Alistair disapproval if you spare Zevran and bring him along though the persuade option will lessen the approval loss a bit. The best way to avoid losing approval at recruitment is to not bring Alistair along in the active party when picking up Zevran. IIRC he'll always show up the next time you world map travel after you see the cutscene with him and Loghain, so it should be fairly predictable.

Other than that initial recruitment friction I can't remember any instances of Alistair and Zevran not getting along. Zev generally doesn't care what you do as long as it doesn't affect him personally so he's a fairly easy person to avoid approval drops with as long as you're careful what you say when speaking to him.

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Originally Posted by Endorenna View Post
One more question. Are the chances of the dog finding me good stuff worth taking up a character slot with him?
There are a few items you can only get from your mabari playing fetch (the helmet of the Effort armor set comes to mind, which I think you can only get from the dog while in the Deep Roads). But it's generally not so much that it should affect your decision on whether to bring him along or not. Even if you leave him at camp you can return to most areas after you're done with the quests there and have the dog sniff around for loot.

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Well, a recent Gift DLC seems to me a great way to get ALL of your party members to 100%.
That DLC costs money though, and it so strong at what it does that it effectively breaks the approval system, rendering it completely pointless. If you're going to cheat and have the PC version of the game you might as well just use the debug console instead to manipulate party member approval, since it's free.


mt
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Old 04-26-2010, 09:32 AM   #30
Endorenna
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All right, guess I have a game plan, then. Replace the dog with Sten, drop Alistair after the Zevran/Loghain cutscene, and try to have 4 Coercion before level 14 just in case the incident you mentioned has consequences in DA2 (provided they make it, of course).

Thanks very much, y'all. Hopefully I won't have to bother you with any more stupid questions, hehe. >_<


Chapter 12 of A Soul Adrift is out.

Short stories:
T'katlu: On the planet Felucia, a young apprentice of the Dark Side thinks back to the beginning of her training as she lies in wait for her prey...

All the Time: After four years in the Unknown Regions, the Exile returns to the known galaxy to visit an old enemy.

Broken: A master of the Dark Side finds himself about to lose the one thing he cares about--and he will do anything to stop her from endangering herself.
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Old 04-26-2010, 10:22 AM   #31
DarthParametric
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There's a mod that allows you to have Dog as a 5th party member, essentially a "summon" for the PC. Worth considering if you don't want to swap him out directly for another character.
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Old 04-26-2010, 01:45 PM   #32
Endorenna
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There's a mod that allows you to have Dog as a 5th party member, essentially a "summon" for the PC. Worth considering if you don't want to swap him out directly for another character.
Awesome. ^_^ Could you link it here, please?

Edit: Nevermind, I found it.


Chapter 12 of A Soul Adrift is out.

Short stories:
T'katlu: On the planet Felucia, a young apprentice of the Dark Side thinks back to the beginning of her training as she lies in wait for her prey...

All the Time: After four years in the Unknown Regions, the Exile returns to the known galaxy to visit an old enemy.

Broken: A master of the Dark Side finds himself about to lose the one thing he cares about--and he will do anything to stop her from endangering herself.

Last edited by Endorenna; 04-26-2010 at 02:02 PM.
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Old 04-26-2010, 03:53 PM   #33
DarthParametric
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For anyone else that's interested - http://www.dragonagenexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=664

EDIT: Oh and I should add this as well, arguably an absolute necessity: Qwinn's Unofficial DA:O Fixpack. Fixes a shedload of bugs still not fixed in the latest official patch (1.03). If you haven't finished the game though, do not read the readme as it contains massive spoilers. Unfortunately it doesn't fix anything in Awakening (a shame as that has a few bugs as well).

Last edited by DarthParametric; 04-28-2010 at 10:42 AM.
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Old 06-14-2010, 03:58 AM   #34
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^Thanks for posting the fixpack.

Qwinn is a friggin' legend. He's one of the main people behind the Planescape: Torment fixpack as well.


"They should rename the team to the Washington Government Sucks. Put Obama on the helmet. Line the entire walls of the stadium with the actual text of the ACA.
Fix their home team score on the board to the debt clock, they can win every game 17,000,000,000,000 to 24. Losing team gets taxed by the IRS 100%, then droned."
-Toker
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Old 04-30-2012, 12:52 AM   #35
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Exclamation Reply re: Shapeshifter in Dragon Age Origins

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So...how's the shapeshifter spec compared to blood and arcane warrior?
imo... Shapeshifter is a great mix with Spirit Healer as it allows you to be effectively be the same as a Druid in WoW. You cast damaging spells, you cast healing spells, and you can shapeshift into a Tank or Rogue type creature as well.

- Bear is a great tank if you tank falls.
- Spider is a great crowd control rogue with poison spit and web slinging.
- Swarm is great for crowd control elite (just make sure nobody is using fire spells if you use swarm, that is their only weakness).

Look over the abilities of each form that you can find easily at http://dragonage.wikia.com and decide for yourself. I myself love my Elven Druid(aka Elven Spirit Healer/Shapeshifter).

By the way, you learn shapeshifting from Morrigan for the first time if you don't already know.
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Old 04-30-2012, 07:25 AM   #36
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If you are already a spirit healer and your tank dies, you rezz him. If it's on a cool down you use cone of cold, glyph of paralyzation/repulsion (or cross them if you like gambling). If you switch shapeshifter for arcane warrior, you can take a fair bit of punishment, if blood mage, you get an extra stun.

Mages are by themselves fantastic crowd control, so not too fond of the spider or swarm either.

Not saying it can't be fun to play a shapeshifter (the shifter class from NWN1 beeing my favorite class of any game ever), just that they aren't exactly powerful.


Checking out seems not to do much.
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