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Old 11-27-2010, 01:09 AM   #1
thelazygent
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The visions on Timira City

Just a little speculation here. I still don't believe hes a clone. When the cloning tank website was up, we were kept making believe that maybe what Vader was telling SK wasn't true (about being a clone) and that he should explore his past. On the website when you unlocked all the visions, Subject 1138 (mentioned in the TFU 1 as the subject that had been stabbed by Vader) comes and destroys Subject 1157. I think in TFU 3, whether it be a video game or a novel or hey maybe even a movie, it will be revealed that SK is in fact the original SK.

Right before you face Vader on top of the cloning platform, you go up an elevator. When it stops, Kota tells you "Don't go in there. The Dark Lord is waiting for you" You reply "Im done arguing General I have to do this". As soon as you enter the room, you are haunted by visions of Star Killer. It seems that the floor is a little foggy and cloudy. Wookiepedia states that

"His anxiety, magnified greatly by the force, crushes neighboring equipment. Visions of Vader himself attacked him out of nowhere, although he was able to repel them, and voices of Juno and Kota echoed around him, Juno calling him a 'monster' and a 'thing', while Kota called him 'Vader's puppet - just a body filled with the memories of a dead man'."

Is it possible that the visions he saw were not due to his anxiety, but maybe due to

the aftermath of the dark cloning experiment Vader completed? Maybe Vader and Palpatine indulged into the Dark Side to bring back starkiller from the dead (maybe using the powers of Darth Plageius?)and keep him a vegetable state (the one shown in distant thunder?) so that they had a live template they could clone. Say the cloning process didn't work well as it hadn't in the past according to Kota, Vader and Palpatine decide to revive SK and just tell him hes a clone. He would doubt himself anyway, because he would see all the other clones in tanks and just automatically assume he is one. Also maybe the original clone had to be alive to create the perfect clone? (Which is why the Dark Apprentice exists). Perhaps the dark side experiment left a mark of dark side energy or maybe it was already there similar to the cave of evil on dagobah. This combined with the fact that this area was where SK was revived would lead have these visions?


Also, Vader mentions at the end of the game during the fight, "Don't you wish to know where you came from?". Vader told SK that he was a clone, what else would there be to tell him if he was a clone? If he was a clone, Vader wouldn't ask him if he wanted to know where he came from. (Under the assumption that he was a clone) He was cloned, what else more is there to say? This makes believe there is more to the story. I think Vader and Palpatine found out Plageius's power or another power and used it. They someone how went into the Netherworld of the force and dragged his spirit out and back into the Original body when they realized the cloning processes wasnt working.

Certainly interesting to consider

I think in TFU 3, this will be the big revelation just as in ESB.
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Old 11-27-2010, 04:18 AM   #2
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I've made this point elsewhere already, but I think the visions and the voices were caused by Vader trying to telepathically mess with Starkiller. Kota's voice makes a reference to "a dead man", which is pretty much Vader's catchphrase in this game. I don't think that's accidental.
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Old 11-28-2010, 01:25 AM   #3
JediSithLordAdas
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I dont think its impossible that he is the Original StarKiller, but seeing if you look to the dark side ending, and the additional extras, he would have to sell the deception also to the Dark Clone of StarKiller also, who isn't to say, whilst he had the Original SK with him, he was able to Clone another copy of him, have him killed to look exactly like the original, to sell the deception to the dark side cloned SK, whilst the Original one still Lives after TFU1, so hence, with it still staying with Star wars canon with the book, and as far as we know, this SK never saw the clone of the dead SK, but we know the dark side clone did, which leads is he also deceiving the dark side clone, when he showed the body.


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Old 11-28-2010, 01:54 AM   #4
MajinMikeyX
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I really don't think TFU1 had ANY clone-business going on AT ALL.

A lot of people are having theories that in TFU1, we play as the Real Starkiller(RSK) and then he's killed when Vader stabs him and throws him into space. Then he's revived and a clone is made out of him during the 6 months he's healing and for the second half after that we play as a clone and the clone dies, then we take control of the RSK in TFU2. There are other variations of this theory I've seen that involve there being a switch at that time, or that he's killed but saved, and clones are made, with Vader showing the Dark Clone the RSK and that's why hes in the Sith Training Gear. There's so many of these.

In TFU2 though, later in the game, well half-way when you re-learn Repulse and during the fight with Vader, you have visions of when you're in the medical bay or the Empirical, along with your visions of everything before then. So that would strongly suggest that there was no cloning going on during TFU1. The reason why there aren't visions of maybe Kashyyyk when he see's his father or anything like that is beyond me. When you watch the Distant Thunder cutscenes I think that the RSK is in the Sith Training Gear instead of the Jedi Adventurer Robes because it just symbolizes how we first were introduced to SK in that outfit and that's the most familiar way we remember seeing SK. It would've been better if they had him in the Adventurer Robes but just because he's in the Training Gear doesn't necessarily mean it has something to do with the theories I mentioned in the first paragraph.


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Old 11-28-2010, 07:14 AM   #5
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In TFU2 though, later in the game, well half-way when you re-learn Repulse and during the fight with Vader, you have visions of when you're in the medical bay or the Empirical, along with your visions of everything before then. So that would strongly suggest that there was no cloning going on during TFU1.
I don't think so. If the visions are the result of memory flashes, as Vader says, then it wouldn't suggest that at all. Vader could've used memory flashes from both the original Starkiller and the first clone, creating the illusion that they came from the same individual when in fact they did not.
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Old 11-28-2010, 03:44 PM   #6
Zerimar Nyliram
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I'm undecided on whether or not Starkiller was cloned in the first game. After all, no living being can survive the vacuum of space. It does more to your body than just depriving it of oxygen. Plus, in the novel, we learn that Galen awakens to find all the years of scarring inflicted upon his body inexplicably absent. Add to that the fact that he awakened on the Empirical six months after having been immobilized by Vader, which is the exact same amount of time that passes between the first and second games, when more clones were produced.

Like I said, it's a theory that I think has a lot of merit, but I'm not committed either way. I'm not sure if it's true or not, but it definitely would make sense.

I do not, however, subscribe to the idea that we resume control of the original Starkiller in TFU2. That part is stupid, I think.


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Old 11-28-2010, 04:31 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Sordid Dreams View Post
I don't think so. If the visions are the result of memory flashes, as Vader says, then it wouldn't suggest that at all. Vader could've used memory flashes from both the original Starkiller and the first clone, creating the illusion that they came from the same individual when in fact they did not.
It's not like Vader's controlling each memory flash, which one, when and where SK sees them. What you're saying is thinking outside the box but makes things awkward that Vader could implant any of SK's memories into the clones and take out any he doesn't want, but I doubt that's what's happening there.

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Originally Posted by Zerimar Nyliram View Post
I'm undecided on whether or not Starkiller was cloned in the first game. After all, no living being can survive the vacuum of space. It does more to your body than just depriving it of oxygen. Plus, in the novel, we learn that Galen awakens to find all the years of scarring inflicted upon his body inexplicably absent. Add to that the fact that he awakened on the Empirical six months after having been immobilized by Vader, which is the exact same amount of time that passes between the first and second games, when more clones were produced.

Like I said, it's a theory that I think has a lot of merit, but I'm not committed either way. I'm not sure if it's true or not, but it definitely would make sense.

I do not, however, subscribe to the idea that we resume control of the original Starkiller in TFU2. That part is stupid, I think.
I definitely agree with you about how no living being can survive space, but you know like....I don't really know about that one. I guess I can just say, "well it's Starwars". I just really think no cloning was going on in TFU1 because they weren't planning on doing TFU2 during production of the first game, only after it being finished and released. So I'm saying that TFU1 wasn't MEANT to have any clone-business going on, but now they can say there was and now it's anyone's game to speculate whether or not there was cloning going on during TFU1.


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Old 11-28-2010, 05:04 PM   #8
Zerimar Nyliram
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Yeah, Star Wars has always relied heavily on retcons. Just look at the deal with Revan and Malak having been converted to the Sith by the hidden Sith Emperor from the upcoming MMO now. They've effectively completely rewritten their motivations in the first KOTOR game.

It might be the same deal with TFU. Retconning is nothing new.


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Old 11-28-2010, 05:43 PM   #9
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It's not like Vader's controlling each memory flash, which one, when and where SK sees them. What you're saying is thinking outside the box but makes things awkward that Vader could implant any of SK's memories into the clones and take out any he doesn't want, but I doubt that's what's happening there.
Do we know that he couldn't do that? I don't think we do, given how little about the whole process is explained. Pretty much the only thing we know is it gives clones memories of other people. How it happens and how finely it can be controlled is anyone's guess. I'm just saying it's a possibility, and messing with Starkiller's head in such a way would be completely in character for Vader.
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