Terribly late, I know, but I finally bought and started playing ME3 over the weekend.
After finally getting the game to install from the discs instead of downloading the whole thing (which I gather is still a problem for a lot of people), I'm enjoying it a lot, or at least I enjoyed it up to the part where the game keeps crashing on Tuchanka.
I've tried repairing install via Origin, but for some reason I'm unable to download any patches or updates once verifying the installation is ok.
Believe me, it's a huge wat for me. I've already debated this with uber fans of Nintendo who basically think anything released on a Nintendo product is the greatest thing ever. They can't seem to grasp the logic that they being played for fools if they buy ME3 on Wii U but you can't really convince them otherwise
It's so stupid. Plus, not just ME3 on Wii U but Arkham City as well, a game that's been out for quite some time now. Assassin's Creed 3 can get away with it, though it's still part of a series that most Nintendo only gamers haven't played, though so was Dead Space: Extraction (which included heavy spoilers relating to the first Dead Space game).
What's stupid about it? From the consumer's perspective, if there are people that only buy Nintendo hardware then it gives them an opportunity to play games they otherwise wouldn't (I would probably try a number of the PS3 exclusives if they were ported to 360 or PC). From a business perspective, it's a cost effective way to cut your teeth on a new development platform and derive extra revenue from an existing product. I don't see what people are complaining about. This is really no different to what PC gamers have experienced for years (especially from Rockstar). Ports that turn up years after the originals launched.
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I guess you're right, whether you've played all the ME games or just ME3, it doesn't make **** all difference to the ending cause it'll still suck either way.
It's stupid because I know the Nintendo-only console gamer and they're a different kind of fanbase than what you'd find with the PS3, 360 and PC base. Basically very few people will buy ME3 because it's not a game that was "made for Nintendo"... there's a really strange reasoning that goes behind it, but basically if fans know that a game is made for a Nintendo console, they'll buy it like hotcakes, even if the game is really terrible like Red Steel. Ubisoft basically said "we're making a game just for you guys" and everyone bought it while all of the Call of Duty ports end up bombing and get thrown into the bargain bin cause no one plays them.
You're right, it is a smart idea in that BioWare is making a really cheap cash grab, but it's still stupid.
Arkham City I feel is a better fit but they tried to show it off as a game that would BRING people to Wii U, they were trying to demonstrate the game is better on Wii U and you should buy one. Where are they trying bring them from, platforms where they have already played the game?
Assassin's Creed 3 on the other hand is the best to represent multiplatform titles on Wii U... it hasn't been released yet and while it may be the latest in a pretty long series now, Ubisoft can easily release the previous AC games on Wii U for a budget price much like Capcom did with the entire Resident Evil series on the GameCube. Out of the three, Ubisoft is making the smartest move. Not only are they introducing Assassin's Creed to the Nintendo gamer with the ability of porting the previous games to Wii U if they choose, but they also have ZombiU in the works which is a "made for Nintendo" game... BioWare = stupid. Ubisoft = smart.
EDIT: oh, and let's face it, without all of the references to things that happened in the previous games and all that we experiences, ME3 is just ends up being a mindless action movie with a crappy ending... I mean even more so than it is to us, the people who have played the other games.
Presumably they'll give them some sort of intro/back story to get them up to speed, the same as they did for PS3 players of ME2, coming into the series without having played ME1.
As for Bioware being stupid, well you'll get no argument from me there, but I suspect our reasoning differs. In terms of your comparison though, it would be fairer to say Ubisoft is smart and EA is stupid.
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True, I shouldn't blame BioWare for this when it's obviously an EA incentive to push this onto Wii U.
And I say again, EA is clearly making a good business decision because the overall cost will end up being paid off eventually and they'll probably make a little bit of profit from having ME3 on Wii U... but they clearly don't understand the user-base they're trying to sell this to in the first place which also makes them stupid. This is just a really short-sighted money grab and that's really all it is. Plain and simple.
Of course. Were EA not the biggest producers of shovelware for the Wii?
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Please... the "extended cut" will be a mash-up of pictures and cutscenes at the end detailing the fate of various species and squad members in a sunshine-and-butterflies fanfic style to appease the hordes.
If there was actually any content worth while, they wouldn't give it away for free.
Last edited by Red Hessian; 06-22-2012 at 02:24 PM.
Reason: Grammar
No no, this "extended cut" will be exactly what I don't want it to be, because my awesome ideas and sense of content worth are so epically lofty, they cannot possibly be given away for free.
@ Red Hessian: If BioWare tried to actually have people PAY for this "Extended Cut" then the amount of rage launched toward them for doing so would be 10 times as much as what they got for the ending itself...
No, this is the safer thing to do for them in terms of appeasing as many people as they can, and even without knowing the content of this "Extended Cut" I can bet that it'll most likely please people enough that it'll put BioWare back on their good side. It won't be everyone, but enough...
Either way, no one's forcing anyone to go back and play ME3 if they don't want to... or to even download the Extended Cut. This really is for the people who care enough to get it... now all we have to do is wait for it to come out, see what people think and if it enrages or calms them down...
Wait and see w/low to no expectations, as it seems to be most prudent course. Still, seems kind of a pain to have to replay 2+ hours of endgame in order for it to kick in. Not a deal breaker, mind you, just a minor annoyance. Also, agree that selling it would merely compound the anger......especially if people thought it sucked.
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Late to the party, but I finally installed and played ME3. Just finished it.
Wow. Bioware did a hell of a job crafting this game - it was fantastic. The combat was more varied, improved, and enjoyable, and I welcomed the reintroduction of RPG elements in the form of weapon customization. The whole game also felt much more polished than ME2. But the best thing about it, I thought, was the character depth and development - especially after coming off an RPG that had next to none of it (Skyrim). Made me remember why I loved Bioware's games. I like the design decision of trading main character quantity for individual depth, though I was a bit disappointed at the lack of inclusion of ME2's unique party members. I suppose ME2's 'live or die' dynamic proved too difficult/complex to develop further into ME3.
But dear Lord, the ending...
TBH the first time around, I was too awed by the cinematographic execution of the ending to realize what I just saw was flawed. It was only a while afterwards that a significant 'Wait, what?' reaction surfaced, and I proceeded to pick apart the ending to discover what was wrong with it. Despite the plot holes and deviance from established themes, my main gripe with it was the brutal lack of closure for an IP that I had heavily invested into emotionally (It almost had me on the verge of tears). I really hope the announced Extended Cut rectifies this well.
As for the plot holes, I don't know how Bioware is going to fix them without changing/retconning the original ending. But doing so would be admitting that they were wrong the first time around. Yet, if they don't address the issues sufficiently, they stand to gain a significant amount of damage to their reputation. A tricky pickle, for sure.
A related issue would be what could happen if a lot of gamers think they can change existing games by causing a big enough hooplah...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Hessian
sunshine-and-butterflies fanfic style to appease the hordes.
I certainly hope not. I quite liked the bitterness of the current ending. I just would've hoped for something like an opportunity to contact your crew/the galaxy one last time to warn them of what you're about to do and/or say goodbye. Perhaps even the chance to give one last epic speech..
As I said: closure.
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If there was actually any content worth while, they wouldn't give it away for free.
I don't know... Bioware's pretty much facing a lynch mob.. I think it's either deliver or die, at this point. Charging for it would most likely damage their reputation regardless of the DLC's quality, as fans are feeling quite entitled to it.
Last edited by JesusIsGonnaOwnSatan; 06-23-2012 at 04:15 AM.
well, i've played through this game multiple times now, and i can understand what they were thinking when they wrote the ending. as i've done a bit of writing in the past, i know firsthand that, as a writer, you don't want the ending to be forgettable. why? because the last impression is a lasting impression. you want something different to happen that deviates from expectations, at least a little.
what Bioware did here, though, almost seems rushed. they can say that they put a lot of time and thought into it, but i beg to differ. IMHO, it feels like they had originally put in that grand and epic ending that we were all expecting, and somewhere towards the end of the dev cycle, a senior level person took a look at it and said, "No, lets do something different where the player has to make one last choice."
as a writer, i'm not opposed to giving the player one last choice as it fits in with the premise of the game. i just would've done it different:
spoiler:
to me, the synthesis choice makes the least amount of sense. sure, every world could've been flooded with nanobots or something to turn organics into partial synthetics, but how do you turn, say the Geth, into a partial organic?? sure you could get creative, but to me it doesn't make sense.
my proposal would be that the Catalyst is actually a "Master" Reaper, or at least the synthetic lifeform that originally created or controlled the Reapers, and it currently controls the Reapers. instead of it seemingly being able to read your mind, just make it access the databases that are likely still inside the Citadel (it is right there, after all) to know who Shepherd is and so on.
for background on the Catalyst, it could be a synthetic that was created by an organic species to help fight off invaders of some kind. once the invaders were destroyed, the synthetic's creators would have some sort of conflict with the synthetics that results in the synthetics starting to systematically wipe out all organic life. the Catalyst, however, opposed the logic that all organics should be destroyed, and it came up with its solution to prevent future organics from creating new synthetics.
the choice would just be destruction or control, same as before. however, the reason a choice needs to be made is simple: the Catalyst lacks emotional insight into how organics feel about its "solution". the Crucible, then, is actually the Catalyst's plan to allow organics to break the cycle.
the destruction choice should remain the same as it seems to be quite logical, and that includes the destruction of EDI and the Geth. the control choice, however, could use some tweaking. my idea is simply this: the control choice transforms Shepherd into the new Catalyst (which, as you remember, still controls the Reapers). this would allow an organic to become a full synthetic and bring an emotional insight into the old Catalyst's solution.
of course, the implications there would be huge if you were either Renegade/Paragon, and i can imagine that a very different ending would take place one way or the other.
anyways, i think that would do more to solve the actual ending than the Extended Cut will. sure, it will be nice to see some more consequences of our previous actions in the ending and bring some closure to some of the characters, but the ending itself is still going to be a bit disappointing.
all that said, i still think that ME3 is the best combination thus far of a 3rd person shooter and an RPG to date. the combat is fantastic, and the RPG elements don't feel stripped down so much like ME2. the characters feel real with a couple of very flat exceptions (still not a Zaeed fan), and the game really tugs at your heartstrings with a number of great moments.
overall, ME3 is one of the best games of all time, but it just falls short in one area: the ending.
See the struggle of the faithless lot as they negate their time
How low to sink to the depths of their frame of mind
It wasn't rushed. The end is virtually unchanged from what was in the leaked script months before release. It was just extremely poor writing.
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what Bioware did here, though, almost seems rushed. they can say that they put a lot of time and thought into it, but i beg to differ. IMHO, it feels like they had originally put in that grand and epic ending that we were all expecting, and somewhere towards the end of the dev cycle, a senior level person took a look at it and said, "No, lets do something different where the player has to make one last choice."
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthParametric
It wasn't rushed. The end is virtually unchanged from what was in the leaked script months before release. It was just extremely poor writing.
Originally Posted by Patrick Weekes, Mass Effect writer
“I have nothing to do with the ending beyond a) having argued successfully a long time ago that we needed a chance to say goodbye to our squad, b)
Show spoiler
having argued successfully that Cortez shouldn’t automatically die in that shuttle crash,
and c) having written Tali’s goodbye bit, as well as a couple of the holo-goodbyes for people I wrote (Mordin, Kasumi, Jack, etc).
No other writer did, either, except for our lead. This was entirely the work of our lead and Casey himself, sitting in a room and going through draft after draft.
And honestly, it kind of shows.
I very much agree with Weekes here:
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I still teared up at the ending myself, but really, I was tearing up for the quick flashbacks to old friends and the death of Anderson. I wasn’t tearing up over making a choice that, as it turned out, didn’t have enough cutscene differentiation on it.
And to be clear, I don’t even really wish Shepard had gotten a ride-off-into-sunset ending. I was honestly okay with
Show spoiler
Shepard sacrificing himself.
I just expected it to be for something with more obvious differentiation, and a stronger tie to the core themes — all three of them.”
Show spoiler
Quote:
Originally Posted by stingerhs
to me, the synthesis choice makes the least amount of sense. sure, every world could've been flooded with nanobots or something to turn organics into partial synthetics, but how do you turn, say the Geth, into a partial organic?? sure you could get creative, but to me it doesn't make sense.
I would imagine the change would at a cellular level. To that end, I think the "circuit board" texture effect was kind of silly. But I suppose they needed some way to obviously communicate the change that had happened.
Quote:
my proposal would be that the Catalyst is actually a "Master" Reaper, or at least the synthetic lifeform that originally created or controlled the Reapers, and it currently controls the Reapers. instead of it seemingly being able to read your mind, just make it access the databases that are likely still inside the Citadel (it is right there, after all) to know who Shepherd is and so on.
That was my impression. Are people actually considering that the Catalyst isn't an AI, but some sort of supernatural entity?
I don't think reading minds is a feat to put past the Reapers. But why the Catalyst chose the form of the boy Shepard saw, of all forms, beats me.
Quote:
for background on the Catalyst, it could be a synthetic that was created by an organic species to help fight off invaders of some kind. once the invaders were destroyed, the synthetic's creators would have some sort of conflict with the synthetics that results in the synthetics starting to systematically wipe out all organic life. the Catalyst, however, opposed the logic that all organics should be destroyed, and it came up with its solution to prevent future organics from creating new synthetics.
I imagine that Catalyst to be the result of some sort of Singularity, uncountable eons ago. The Catalyst and its 'solution' is exactly the kind of scenario scientists in our world are currently debating about, as they predict that a self improving AI is a probable eventuality that will occur in our lifetime.
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the destruction choice should remain the same as it seems to be quite logical, and that includes the destruction of EDI and the Geth. the control choice, however, could use some tweaking. my idea is simply this: the control choice transforms Shepherd into the new Catalyst (which, as you remember, still controls the Reapers). this would allow an organic to become a full synthetic and bring an emotional insight into the old Catalyst's solution.
The destruction ending makes the least sense to me. IMO, all technology is nothing but a careful arrangement of minerals and processed natural substances with the introduction of electricity. How would the Catalyst's explosion differentiate between mundane electronics, and "synthetic life", as it calls it? What about a simple battery connected to a lightbulb? Because that's fundamentally that same as a computer (metals with electricity flowing through it).
Quote:
all that said, i still think that ME3 is the best combination thus far of a 3rd person shooter and an RPG to date. the combat is fantastic, and the RPG elements don't feel stripped down so much like ME2. the characters feel real with a couple of very flat exceptions (still not a Zaeed fan), and the game really tugs at your heartstrings with a number of great moments.
overall, ME3 is one of the best games of all time, but it just falls short in one area: the ending.
Agree.
Last edited by JesusIsGonnaOwnSatan; 06-25-2012 at 03:15 AM.
It wasn't rushed. The end is virtually unchanged from what was in the leaked script months before release. It was just extremely poor writing.
And scripts leaked months before release imply the game wasn't rushed how? Obviously they weren't working uptil the day before release, but IIRC the ending was done in October, which is absurdly late a time to be wrapping up the writing.
So, I haven't really gotten far with ME3 yet. Now the the question is do I get the extended cut and never experience the original ending?
Without seeing the extended cut that is hard to say. With BioWares track record lately, I'm just worried that they don't mess up the ending even worse trying to fix it. Frankly I love the ending and the game up until the last elevator ride, after that I have accepted it for what it is without forcing total hate for the entire series.
And scripts leaked months before release imply the game wasn't rushed how?
When it leaked was not when it was written. It was finished well before then - the "script" was ripped from the TLK of a beta version.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prime
So, I haven't really gotten far with ME3 yet. Now the the question is do I get the extended cut and never experience the original ending?
You can't. The EC is the original ending, just with some extra dialogue. There is no new ending, as they have repeatedly said. You're still going to be served up what everyone else got back in March.
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Since you have to have a save before the Attack on the Cerberus base,...I'm guessing we will see scenes about How the Citadel moved and info on who got out before it was moved.
Fingers cross with being able to argue with the Star Kid, even if it doesn't change the outcome,...just like the option to argue with it,....lol Bad Star child!..Go to your Room and take your Space Magic with you! lol
Over all I just want them to make it flow better and make more sense - Meaning less just saying to the player ,use your imagination-
I'm not looking for a new ending but would be interesting if these tease anything with the Indoctrinate theory, but doubt that, ....All I want it to do is fill in the blanks and not allow me to feel like the universe is doomed...Thats all..Then I could do a second playthrough...(fingers cross)
I've been looking into the indoctrination theory recently, and I'm pretty much sold. I'm going to be *very* surprised if aspects of this theory isn't part of the Extended Cut.
Two 1.5 hour doco's with pretty damning evidence that Bioware is very much likely in the process of executing the biggest troll in gaming history:
I don't believe they will say yes or no to the indoctrination theory but I wouldn't be surprise if we see a future DLC that actually adds it to the game. Bioware is known for listening to players and they know many are interested in this theory.
They could easily add in content like the Omega DLC, and build one where it actually has a side story where Shepard is fighting Indoctrination. This would be a cool way to add some interesting DLC content at the same time giving a wink to the fan base.
I would be down for an Indoctrination DLC that happens before the ending of the game. If they did they should add in Harbinger as the main enemy there so if the EC does not expand on him, then this DLC could resolve the feeling we didn't get to fight him, wither its with guns or best mentally- argument. I would love to see a inner fight between Shepard and Harbinger inside Shepard's mind before the ending of Me3 as part of an Indoctrination DLC.
I think about 30% of me buys indoctrination theory, but if it turns out to be true and intended the whole time by Bioware, 80% of me will consider it awesome.
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If indoctrination is part of the answer, I will burn my copies of the series, quit TOR and never play a BioWare game again. IMO the stupidest theory ever.
When it leaked was not when it was written. It was finished well before then - the "script" was ripped from the TLK of a beta version.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ars Technica
In "The Final Days of Mass Effect 3" iPad app, journalist Geoff Keighley discusses how Hudson and writer Mac Walters were debating the final bits of end game dialogue "right up until the end of 2011," even delaying Martin Sheen's Illusive Man voice recording session from August to mid-November to give more writing time.
Bioware won't touch the topic of Indoctrination Theory...but I would bet money that the EC will not say no fully to it but will not use the Indoctrination Theory in it. They will just add in new details on the existing ending.
But a certain number of the fanbase that's interested in the Indoctrination Theory.
I can see Bioware releasing an Indoctrination DLC that explores the concept of Indoctrination but this content would be before the ME3 ending, I mean before the return to Earth. It would be like any DLC, a section of it's own and would not change the ending.
@mimartin- Don't worry Bioware will not be jumping on the Indoctrination Theory train lol
They have defended their vision for the ending, they won't change it. The ending will stay as it is in the Vanilla game. =)
I tweeted the ME3 community manager about the idea of the Indoctrination DLC (happens before ending). Will let you know if i hear anything back.
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Originally Posted by beanlord56
This. I though Bioware shot the Indoctrination Theory down not long before they announced the Extended Cut.
Quote:
Originally Posted by logan23
Bioware won't touch the topic of Indoctrination Theory...but I would bet money that the EC will not say no fully to it but will not use the Indoctrination Theory in it. They will just add in new details on the existing ending.
Quote:
Originally Posted by logan23
@mimartin- Don't worry Bioware will not be jumping on the Indoctrination Theory train lol
They have defended their vision for the ending, they won't change it. The ending will stay as it is in the Vanilla game. =)
Here are some relevant tweets:
Show spoiler
It seems to me that she/they're going to extra efforts to specifically *not* disprove the IT, but rather to make it ambiguous.
Show spoiler
If I were to guess, I think the EC is going to have Shepard waking up in London, realizing what he just saw was an indoctrination attempt by Harbinger. It'll also probably have some sort of final battle. I'd wager it's going to be with the Illusive Man.
Debating a few lines of dialogue is not the same as writing the whole ending.
In that specific example I think it was primarily because they debated having the IM as a final boss fight, but ultimately decided it would be too "gamey" (after all, you don't want icky game mechanics getting in the way of your glorious cinematic artistry). Plus I'm pretty sure when you have a guy like Martin Sheen in the booth, you want to make sure you have everything finalised so you don't have to call him back to re-record anything. I doubt he comes cheap.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JesusIsGonnaOwnSatan
It seems to me that she/they're going to extra efforts to specifically *not* disprove the IT, but rather to make it ambiguous.
Of course. If they don't come out and shoot it down it allows people to remain in denial. People in denial are still invested in the franchise, so you can potentially sell them DLC and other product.
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Take anything and everything Jessica Merizan says with a grain of salt. She isn't actually a developer; just the community manager. She's not always informed on the super secret stuff.
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