Oh, you cruel and sadistic pollster! Choose?!?! Can't I pick both? Pretty please.
No? Well, I guess depends on what you mean by better.
Better, as in good, dependable, and trustworthy - Carth.
Better, as in sneaky, clever, and can find a way out of trouble - well, that's Atton.
I ended up not voting. Cannot make a choice without more specific criteria.
First of all, he is a man of great loyalty, honesty, and bravery. He knows where he stands. In the first ten minutes of the game, he's saved your PC twice at great risk to himself. He is a pragmatic lightsider (as evidenced with the bounty hunters and the old man, the bounties from Zak's office, and his "I'm glad to see we're still the good guys here" line when you act charitable). He's still devoted to the memory of his wife and son, trying to get Dustil back from the Sith. He is man enough to apologize to Mission and to want to take care of her. He's not the best fighter by a longshot, but he's got enough heart to make up for shortcomings there.
Atton changes his loyalties more frequently than his shorts. Let's see, betrays the Republic. Then, betrays the Sith. His almost-casual tone when he's talking about how much he hurt that Jedi woman and how much he enjoyed it reminds me of a sociopath I had the misfortune to encounter. Then Kreia has to mind-rape and blackmail his sorry hide just to stay with you. He admits he's hoping you get him killed, and it's implied that he was Coorta's contact, meaning he was the one about ready to hand you over to GOTO. And he's a compulsive gambler and borderline drunk on top of all those.
Piloting:
Carth only crashed the ship once. Atton crashed damn near everything he flew.
Fighting:
Atton's special ability was handy, but his stats bit hard. Carth had better balance when it came to stats and more staying power in a fight. I do not count the Force-sensitivity either way, as there are quite a few in-game hints that Mr. Onasi is also FS.
Women:
Atton killed a Jedi "because he loved her," and tells the whole story of how he tortured her in a very creepy near-monotone. He also acts like a sleeze towards F!Exile. Combined with his utter inability to stay loyal to much of anything? If he asks for your number, run like hell.
Carth? Faithful to his wife, and faithful to her memory after she's gone. When he does come out of his shell, he's respectful, if a bit fond of kidding around ("Hairless Wookiee"). Hell, his K2 speech even indicates he's faithful to Revan (either gender, but Sbarge really kills you if you say Revan was LSF) four years after she vanishes. In the DSF ending, he flees because he knows he can't fight, but he makes a last-ditch attempt to march in and save you from yourself, knowing he's dead either way.
As a character (that is, a component that enhances the story), I'd vote for Atton in my sleep. His backstory outclasses Carth's in both originality and level of interest.
"I'm a dedicated and skilled war veteran who's never done a bad turn in my life, and because my wife and son were killed when my mentor betrayed us (WHAAAAAH WANGST WANGST WANGST), I don't trust you or the Jedi and am utterly incapable of believing that anyone else knows better than me. Nevertheless, I'll stick by you through thick and thin. I hope you don't mind me compulsively whining about the Jedi Order not telling its secret plan to end the war to a random soldier and displacing my unresolved feelings with Saul on you."
Even though both of them are wangsted to hell in the fan fics, I still prefer Atton's backstory, if only because it's not packed with so many cliches. Furthermore, Atton was never as obnoxious as Carth (and people say Anakin and Luke whine too much in the movies), and he doesn't have a lost son (who in turn has a lost brain). His easy-going wisecracker style reminded me enough of Han Solo that he struck me as being tolerable company (and as far as liking Atton personally goes, as he is in TSL he's at worst only slightly more evil than Han in ANH), and I liked most of his one-liners and other witty remarks ("...so you'll have to do without me for a while. I know, you're crushed."). It's not a contest because Carth is so uninspired that anyone going up against him that has a shred of originality in him or her automatically wins.
"There is something going on in time and space, and beyond time and space, which, whether we like it or not, spells duty." -Winston Churchill
"For of all sad words of tongue or pen, The saddest are these: 'It might have been!'" -John Whittier
From MST3K's spoof of "Hercules Unchained"--heard as Roman medic soldiers carry off an unconscious Greek Hercules on a 1950's Army green canvas stretcher: "Hi, we're IX-I-I. Did somebody dial IX-I-I?"
"I've barely eaten anything for many decades now. It feels like my stomach shriveled into my back........though i don't have a stomach or back because i'm a skeleton! Yohohohoho! SKULL JOKE!"
"My eyes have never seen such a pretty woman! But i'm a skeleton so my eyes don't see much."
Oh, Atton would be ticked and lose his cool. Just start asking him about Jedi.
Quote:
Atton: "What makes you think you've got the right to interrogate me on anything? You've got plenty of lives to answer for—all you Jedi do. How did you even live with yourself after Malachor? Is that why you went back to the Jedi Council? Hoping they'd kill you? Wasn't it? Maybe you thought they'd forgive you—sure, you might have thought they'd execute you. But Jedi don't kill, do they? At least not their prisoners. Maybe you were counting on it when you went back in chains. So you got off easy—you were exiled, brushed under the cargo ramp, another dirty little Jedi secret. I'll tell you—all those Jedi at Malachor? They deserved it. Every last one of them."
Exile: How can you say such a thing?
Atton: "Because Jedi lie. And they manipulate. And every act of charity or kindness they do, you can drag it out squirming into the light and see it for what it is. The galaxy doesn't need Jedi arrogance or Jedi hypocrisy anymore."
Besides he's got his own secrets, remember? Glass houses. Not to mention no particular loyalty to anything.
And Carth may not take it very well - who can blame the guy, really? Meets up with the slimebag of a mentor he once trusted with everything, the guy who has been the target of his thoughts for four years. Saul proceeds to prove what a smug jerk he is and torture him. They escape, march up to the bridge (and who else engages solo mode, hands Flyboy a pair of vibroblades, and sends him directly after Saul?), and Saul uses his last breath to f--k with Carth's head. Under the circumstances, his reaction's pretty restrained.
So, Carth needs a planet's worth of time to process it, and make his decision.
Quote:
"I can't hate you. I tried... I wanted to hold you responsible for all the things you've done. For my... for my wife, for Telos... for Dustil. But I can't...I got the revenge I always wanted when Saul died, but it hasn't brought me the peace that I thought it would...That's why I can't hate you, why I don't want any more revenge. You don't have to be Revan, you can be so much more. Whatever the Jedi did to you, they gave you that chance."
Males who don't like Carth should do a K1 playthrough as a female Revan. The Carth romance is way, way more mature than the Bastila romance and it reveals a lot more about Carth's character.
That said, for me it's pretty much a draw.
"Mind your wants, 'cause someone wants your mind."
I also like Carth better. I never found him annoying either, and when I played TSL, I couldn't help but thinking that Atton was a sequeled-version of Carth.
There is a joke that goes around in my house, my siblings say "Carth is a Jerk because he is so whiny!" and for Atton..... "I'm as stupid as stupid will ever be!" which was a parody of his best line "I'm as Atton as Atton will ever be." Carth is a soldier, but Atton is cooler overall. He is a Jedi, he is a pilot, he is a sith, and he is good looking (for video game standards). I think his love story with Exile is better than Carth+Revan. Though they are both annoying, I vote for Atton.
Mrcharlton only uses LucasForums for social groups and RPs
Let's see. Carth has a bad past and whines about it constantly. Atton has a bad past and doesn't whine about it, even when the Exile discovers it. Carth is no fun to talk to, and Atton is hilarious. Carth's voice annoys me...okay, so does Atton's. Carth professes his love to the PC while standing thirty feet away from her, and he doesn't even bother to kiss her despite the fact she's about to go to her death (probably). Atton's romance doesn't really have a satisfying ending, but that, IMO, is better than the end of the Carth romance. Carth is terrible in a fight, while Atton is great to have around.
Short stories: T'katlu: On the planet Felucia, a young apprentice of the Dark Side thinks back to the beginning of her training as she lies in wait for her prey...
All the Time: After four years in the Unknown Regions, the Exile returns to the known galaxy to visit an old enemy.
Broken: A master of the Dark Side finds himself about to lose the one thing he cares about--and he will do anything to stop her from endangering herself.
Ah, GTA. Tatooine would flood if we ever agreed on something :wink:
Though I remember one quote on KFM regarding the "hawt Jedi arse"
"Yes, Atton and Carth want to get into a nice set of Jedi pants. The difference is that Carth would like to marry the Jedi in said pants."
Where I actually decided Onasi was a nice guy? The banters with Mission. Yeah, those two started off on the wrong note. The second banter where he was man enough to apologize to the kid and admit he needed her help helped warm up my opinion. By contrast, how Atton treated the Handmaiden and/or Disciple and T3-M4 really put me off.
From a guy's perspective:
As a male exile his harshness towards others comes across more as unspoken loyalty.
Well Atton is only kind of creepy, playing as a fem exile. But so was it kind of creepy from disciple and you could see his moves a mile away. All in relative senses.
As either male or female exile, Atton won't admit it but there is a lot more care and loyalty under the surface. Plus to go from jedi killer to remorseful and even "atoning" about it says a lot as well.
As far as him being harsh
1)towards Handmaiden... Remember the saying "bros before hoes"? He's looking out for your male exile and it isn't exactly without good reason because if you'll recall she *was* first to confront you on Telos' polar academy AND she *did* sneak aboard. Suppose it's also a tad personal/professional, she works for the republic, he doesn't care too much for the republic.
2) As far as his treatment towards Disciple...well, it's a cultural and male competitive thing. Disciple is like a royal gentleman hopelessly doomed to be stepped on and "just friends" in a more American like society--poor chap. Granted, Atton is being like a typical American guy--a jerk. But it's not all jealousy, it's competition too. Perhaps mingled with dislike for the republic which disciple serves.
EDIT: Well, Mira did catch him eavesdropping, and outlined his flaws which *do* come standard on a regular guy.
Far as Carth... whiny in either case but openly and undeniably loyal--you have to be the one to betray him. He does eventually have a legit reason for his issues.
As a male character, I wouldn't exactly call him bro but I suppose like a good neighbor. Maybe like family given enough time and knowledge of him.
As a female character...Carth's approach isn't the way I'd go about hitting on fem revan if I were in his spot. However, the writer *did* at least get the confidence part down (if nothing else). Confidence works for any guy's game. Period.
He never does let you go wrong though his methods may lack firmness and resolve at times. His main concerns are the republic and isn't sure about the mandalorian. Canderous, bah, he's like an old biker dude and probably has women-squeezes everywhere; a bit of native American Warrior IMO (speaking as part Native American myself). Anyways, I always do at least try to have it so Carth deals the killing blow to Saul.
Love me, I win.
Hate me, I win.
Ignore me, I've got exactly what I wanted.
Love me or hate me, you're still thinking of me either way.
Last edited by Darth Avlectus; 04-16-2010 at 03:20 AM.
The question should be if they were working together, who would pilot the Ebon Hawk.
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"Evil is a word used by the ignorant and the weak. The dark side is about survival. It's about unleashing your inner power. It glorifies the strength of the individual."
*snerk* Actually, if I were to kill off Rand? Obsidian's cut content where Atton sacrificed himself against Sion was gorgeous. Will not argue it.
Dark Side Atton? I'd hand the job to Mical, and just to add a little insult, have Mikey shoot the guy.
"Yeah, I knew what you were. I know your real name, your body count, your rather dubious service record, and I knew them about twenty minutes after meeting you. Say what you like about Jedi, but do not cross Republic Intelligence."
I thought I had posted in this thread (or maybe a similar one?) I like Carth but I always thought he was too emotional and I rather enjoyed Atton's laid back attitude. If it were real life I don't think I could sit in the cockpit with Carth for two minutes and listen to him rant on about getting his revenge or lecture me on being a useless Jedi or a Sith (all of that negative energy would make me want to plant my lightsaber into his cranium), I would much rather play pazzak with Atton
"Maybe there is no Heaven.
Or maybe this is all pure gibberish -
a product of the demented imagination
of a lazy drunken hillbilly with a heart full of hate
who has found a way to live out where the real winds blow -
to sleep late, have fun, get wild, drink whiskey,
and drive fast on empty streets with nothing in mind
except falling in love and not getting arrested... Res ipsa loquitur.
Let the good times roll."
-Hunter S. Thompson
I believe that both Atton and Carth are great characters. Carth's not whiny one bit, in fact, he is honest and loyal, especially to female Revan. As for Atton, he's cool and all, but if I were to hang out with him, he might assassinate me...
There is no emotion; there is peace.
There is no ignorance; there is knowledge.
There is no passion; there is serenity.
There is no death; there is the Force.
I think both characters strike an interesting parallel. Carth Onasi is a decorated Republic war hero, and Atton Rand... well...
Show spoiler
he used to be a Jedi killer.
Both Carth and Atton are some the first party members in KOTOR and TSL, respectively, so they both stand as veterans, in terms of being your character's companion. Both have pasts they'd rather not speak of, adding elements of mystery to their character - this compelled me to converse with them, in order to discover the truth.
Carth is a soldier, and Atton is a scoundrel, and though they both use blasters, they have different talents.
Which one is better?
Neither; they are both unique and excellent characters - I couldn't choose one over the other.
Thanks for putting it into words.
From MST3K's spoof of "Hercules Unchained"--heard as Roman medic soldiers carry off an unconscious Greek Hercules on a 1950's Army green canvas stretcher: "Hi, we're IX-I-I. Did somebody dial IX-I-I?"
Carth professes his love to the PC while standing thirty feet away from her, and he doesn't even bother to kiss her despite the fact she's about to go to her death (probably). Atton's romance doesn't really have a satisfying ending, but that, IMO, is better than the end of the Carth romance. Carth is terrible in a fight, while Atton is great to have around.
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