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Old 05-10-2001, 03:00 PM   #41
Zanzibar
 
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I'm gonna be a bit busy over the next few days, folks, so don't take my lack of replies to mean I've given up Keep em coming!

That levitating thermal detonator was a collision bug that no one really paid a lot of attention to...sometimes it fell, sometimes it didn't, and since it was SO out-of-the-way and almost a bonus item, we concentrated on more interesting bugs

Level skip? As far as I know, no there isn't. We had one, used it for debugging, but then amputated it when we discovered that some testers were jumping past levels. We almost fell out of our chairs when we heard that Otoh Gunga was rarely tested unless someone was specifically asked to do so.

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Old 05-10-2001, 08:39 PM   #42
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The level I would skip is the swamps...

My favs are the first one, the Theed Gardens, Mos Espa, and the final Battle... I like the whole switching between characters, just like the movie!

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Old 05-12-2001, 10:24 AM   #43
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I have a question about The Escape from Theed. Is it possible to escort the droid who wants to follow Obi Wan through the level? If so, is there any (dis)advantage to doing so?

On another note, my girlfriend told me she likes to play the Phantom Menace because you get plenty of "breathers" where the action stops and you go on various quests, such as on the Mos Espa level. She also says that Jedi Power Battles is exclusively for boys because it's just non-stop action. Any thoughts on that? Should adventure games like TPM be, at least in part, marketed to girls?
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Old 05-12-2001, 11:28 AM   #44
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Not necasserily true. Sailor Meike(my manga freak of a sis) prefers JPB over TPM. She prefers to just hack away at everything in sight instead of helping innocent ppl. But than again, she also likes those ultra violent anime/manga movies.

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Old 05-14-2001, 11:20 PM   #45
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Yes, it is possible to bring the droid all the way to the end of the level. Is it advantageous? Not in the slightest bit, unless you enjoy watching him sit there sulking as you fly away in the Queen's Ship.

Well, what your girlfriend is explaining is a penchant for more adventure-type games than the all-action variety. It's a matter of taste. We put TPM together as a conglomeration of several different styles, and while a lot of people liked it, others did not. As to whether games SHOULD be geared towards people who play other sorts of games, well, who knows. You can, but you risk turning off other gamers.

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Old 05-15-2001, 01:46 PM   #46
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I have a question for ya Zanzi.

In one of the Theed levels, where you escort the queen to safety, you can jump down to a balcony where the view will shift to a fixed point, so you can take a look at Obi. Why does the camera change?
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Old 05-15-2001, 03:48 PM   #47
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The camera changes because if it didn't, you could turn around 360deg and the camera clipped through the upstairs building, letting you see places where there were no polys underneath.

We had planned on using that type of camera several times, but never really came up with many opportunities in-game. We did use the same sort of camera in the in-game cutscenes quite a bit though, where the camera stays stationary while it tracks moving characters.
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Old 05-16-2001, 04:32 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally posted by Zanzibar:


That levitating thermal detonator was a collision bug that no one really paid a lot of attention to...sometimes it fell, sometimes it didn't, and since it was SO out-of-the-way and almost a bonus item, we concentrated on more interesting bugs

Actually, it always falls, and always ends up INSIDE the floor. But you can get it by pushing the box onto the lift, where it breaks, and you ride down the lift picking it up on the way from mid-air.

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Old 05-16-2001, 04:37 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mace Koon:
I have a question about The Escape from Theed. Is it possible to escort the droid who wants to follow Obi Wan through the level? If so, is there any (dis)advantage to doing so?

On another note, my girlfriend told me she likes to play the Phantom Menace because you get plenty of "breathers" where the action stops and you go on various quests, such as on the Mos Espa level. She also says that Jedi Power Battles is exclusively for boys because it's just non-stop action. Any thoughts on that? Should adventure games like TPM be, at least in part, marketed to girls?
Interesting...
I'm a guy and love TPM and hate the relative mindlessness of JPB. However, a good friend of mine (a girl) loves JPB and finds it very addicting. Odd...

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Old 05-16-2001, 06:19 AM   #50
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O.k., hears the ones that should have been asked.

1: Why was there no multiplayer?

2: Why wasn't a more simpler level designer used?

3: How come it wasn't made editable like JK

4: Where was the force? It sure wasn't with Obi-Wan

5: You guys KILLED the sabre dueling. It was extremely dull. How come you didn't make like a seperate block and attack button.

6. How come you didn't make animations for all the models so we could play them? I wanted to go around as Darth Maul and Jar Jar.

7. How come no Gungan Battle? That would have been fun.

8. I wish the Mos Espa track actually went all the way around. Makes ya wonder where the podracers actually raced to.WHY?

9. Coruscant was rather boring. Instead of having a great time exploring, you spent most of it in the boring lower levels.WHY?

10. How come the levels were for the most part small? Mos Espa would have been hilariously fun if it were twice as big with like 10x the amount of people.

I loved thegame, honestly, just some questions

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Old 05-16-2001, 01:53 PM   #51
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Wow, those are some straight to the point Q's... heheh Hey Zanzi, I think we've been soft on you, this dude is right to the point! lol... Not that I agree with everything he asks though...

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Old 05-16-2001, 03:30 PM   #52
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(cracks his knuckles)
1: Why was there no multiplayer?

1. Multiplayer was a casualty of 2 things - lack of time and LEC's insistence that the game be simple. As we all know, most multiplayer games nowadays are being developed for hardcore gamers, and that was something LEC did not want for TPM. We all knew that we didn't have enough time to do a multiplayer version that could stand up to the likes of UT or Quake, so it was given the axe. We did make a hacked-together multiplayer version, but unless you made the 'naughty naughty' cheat mandatory, it wasn't as fun, especially because the lightsabers couldn't reflect blaster bolts in our Frankenstein version.

2: Why wasn't a more simpler level designer used?
2. We built a level design tool that let us re-use pieces all over the place, saving memory, and thus eliminating in-level loading. The cube-based system gave us a lot of flexibility for detail, but the downside is that we REALLY had a tough time making realistic outdoor terrain, as you see in Swamp, Gardens and the Tatooine levels.

3: How come it wasn't made editable like JK
3. In truth, one of the reasons why we DID go with the cube-based system was because we intended to make the level editor available, and thus people could swap pieces and levels. That changed when we added so much functionality to the tool that it became INCREDIBLY complex, and then realized that if we were going to release it, it would need a manual, and we were all WAY too busy trying to get the game done to spend time writing a manual. Also, when LEC decided to do a PSX version after all, they wanted to make sure that the PSX version had exactly the same features as the PC version, so it opened up a whole new can of worms in terms of how to swap levels etc.

4: Where was the force? It sure wasn't with Obi-Wan
4. In following LEC's insistence that the game be as simple as possible, we opted to have just the Jedi double-jump and the Force Push (used also for pushing levers and buttons from a distance, like the Jedi telekinesis), in addition to sabre blocking. Those Force powers were the only ones from the script that we knew about; the Force Run seen at the beginning of the movie surprised us all when we saw it, but it was too late to add features at that point.

5: You guys KILLED the sabre dueling. It was extremely dull. How come you didn't make like a seperate block and attack button.
5. We did indeed work with making the Sabre dueling much more complex, with high- and low-blocking, in addition to overhead slashes and attacks and so forth. The system got axed in early 1999 when it became pretty complex. It almost resembled a rock-paper-scissors situation, where Maul would attack, and if you guessed wrong you took damage, you guessed right HE took damage, etc. and it just didn't feel right. At the same time, LEC took a look at it, and apparently thought that it would be too hard for the casual gamer to figure out, making Maul impossible to beat unless you spent a lot of time working on it.

6. How come you didn't make animations for all the models so we could play them? I wanted to go around as Darth Maul and Jar Jar.
6. Time time time. I personally built, textured, and animated every one of those models, and it was amazing that we got it done at all. To make animations for all characters...I'd STILL be working on them to get them done. I have a Mace Windu model that uses the Jedi anims, but that's about it.

7. How come no Gungan Battle? That would have been fun.
7. We toyed around with building a Gungan battle, but we knew at that time that NO ONE would want to play Jar Jar for a level. Yes, we anticipated Jar Jar's near-universal loathing. Also, again, our tool doesn't do terrain well, and in a big flat plain, it would also be tough to judge where you're at in the top-down view. After the game was released, I actually designed out a Gungan level that would have had Captain Tarpals as the lead character, but I never had time to go any further with it.

8. I wish the Mos Espa track actually went all the way around. Makes ya wonder where the podracers actually raced to.WHY?

8. We were told by LEC not to include any kind of 'real' podracer action, because they didn't want to take anything away from SW Racer. It also would have included building a new movement system. If we had included the Tank and STAP movement schemes, then perhaps we could also have done podracer stuff, but we barely made ship date as it was.

9. Coruscant was rather boring. Instead of having a great time exploring, you spent most of it in the boring lower levels.WHY?
9. What exactly would you do up top? Exploring is nice, but in an action/adventure, you gotta have goals, and you gotta have goals that require lots of action. Coruscant isn't exactly a lawless society, we needed to come up with SOMETHING to do, so we decided that there should be an 'underworld' where you can kill and be killed without the knowledge of the police. The problem was, in the movie, virtually NOTHING happens on Coruscant except a lot of talking, so in an action game, it made it rather difficult to come up with something to do. One of our running jokes was that part of the level was going to be the Galactic Senate Bumper Cars seen in the movie. We also toyed with the idea of a Taxi chase through the skylanes using the same movement engine as the STAP, but, you guessed it, it got the axe when time got tight.

10. How come the levels were for the most part small? Mos Espa would have been hilariously fun if it were twice as big with like 10x the amount of people.
10. I might disagree slightly with your characterization of 'small levels', but in terms of keeping us from having to load stuff on-the-fly and not having the game slow down, the levels had to be within certain size restrictions. And having 10x the people would MASSIVELY slow down the CPU as it calculated the AIs of all those people. Some of the AIs were quite complex.



[This message has been edited by Zanzibar (edited May 16, 2001).]
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Old 05-17-2001, 08:42 AM   #53
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A tear came to my eye when I read this....to think our beloved TPM was cut from a glorious adventure to the pitiful remains that were left when released to the market after LEC practically mutilated it. To think we had a shot at multiplayer...a shot at a level designer.....Well, actually, the double jump was really any good, you barely jump 10ft anyway....there could have been a fun dueling system...no Mace Windu....no Gungan Battle....no podracer....Oh yah, I meant in Coruscant by the action going around the top of the buildings and finding some fun places to battle, those puzzles were so annoying....

Anyways, 1 more question,
How come there wasn't any sky textures? I mean, that part in the gardens where it pans to show all the droids, it was the most hideous blue sky I had ever seen..



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Old 05-17-2001, 11:34 AM   #54
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Man...LEC, what the heck have you done? (well...they could be reading this because of rumors that LEC is spying on these very boards)

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Old 05-18-2001, 07:09 AM   #55
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What can I say? A generalisation is generally true, but, like any generalisation, there are exceptions. So I'm sure if we look hard enough, we'll all find a girl who prefers JPB and a guy who prefers TPM.

Quote:
Originally posted by Redwing:
Interesting...
I'm a guy and love TPM and hate the relative mindlessness of JPB. However, a good friend of mine (a girl) loves JPB and finds it very addicting. Odd...
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Old 05-19-2001, 01:10 AM   #56
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It's really too bad that TPM got screwed that way.

It was enjoyable for me though. I did have fun playing it and it was worth the 20$CAN I payed for it.

It is sad that it could have been so much more. LEC really sound like creeps. I mean sure time is of the essence, but who cares? I mean they are still coming out with Episode I games now, so who cares if it takes long? When you think about it, TPM should have been the MAJOR game of Episode I. It should have been the best one. It should have been the game that represents the movie. You guys at Big Ape did an awesome job, and it's a pity that you should look bad for that game not being "as great as expected" when you guys were pressured by LEC.

Comon LEC, if you are such a good company, and if you think I'm wrong, we want to hear you side, post on here! Big Ape has.

Another example of a company being too big to care about their customers.

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Old 05-20-2001, 04:29 AM   #57
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To put it quite simply, I think LEC has learned its lesson, and is moving away from going with smaller teams and is instead now focusing on getting games RIGHT instead of getting games DONE. I just came from E3, and their stuff is REALLY impressive. The SW Galaxies is amazing, I can't wait to play it, especially since they're going to include space combat (my jaw dropped when I heard that). Also, Jedi Outcast (Jedi Knight II) looks FANTASTIC, and Knights of the Old Republic is also really promising. All of those titles are being developed by LARGE outside developers, instead of the smaller-sized developers they worked with previously. The LEC commitment is there now, where I think they went through a time where the commitment was more to getting a lot of cheaply-made SW games as opposed to a few expensive quality ones.

Ah, to answer the question on the sky texture - just one of those things that we never really expected to see with our camera angle the way it was. When we realized we needed to see across a vista like that, our programmers were beating many many many other features, so we made do.
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Old 05-21-2001, 06:25 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally posted by Zanzibar:
The LEC commitment is there now, where I think they went through a time where the commitment was more to getting a lot of cheaply-made SW games as opposed to a few expensive quality ones.

*cries* Poor poor TPM...if only it had come later

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Old 05-21-2001, 08:44 AM   #59
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Big Ape developed simpsons wrestling too right?
What is your next game Ray?
Nice review:
http://www.gamerankings.com/itemrank...reviewid=50074


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Old 05-21-2001, 03:39 PM   #60
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Can't say about next game yet, sorry.

Yeah, gotta love IGN. Not much to say there. They hated the IDEA of the game in terms of it being a 'sellout,' and said so in their very earliest news items about the game. So, lo and behold, instead of actually REVIEWING the game, they took the opportunity to make a statement about the marketing people being in charge of the decision-making process. And, quite simply, you can't argue with that. The suits control the market right now for the most part, and if they want to cash in on the wrestling fad with the Simpsons license, then that's their right to hire a team to put it together.

Not to say that Simpsons Wrestling didn't deserve a bad rap. We wanted high-res, and the limitations of the PSX prevented having both the black-line drawing technique and high-res, and Fox was insistent on the black-line (not to mention insistent that the game be on the PSX and not the Dreamcast), so we went low-res. They also wanted a game that the Simpsons fans could learn and play easily, and also had a 12-month timetable which is quite short, thus our focus had to be very narrow. Is it a fun game to play? Yeah, I think so. But is it deep? No, not in the slightest.
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Old 05-24-2001, 01:35 AM   #61
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The world of game making seems very ruthless for some reason...

I've been playing TPM some more for some reason... It's kewl. I still love the game and it was worth what I paid. I wish people would come out with patches/add-ons or something. I'm sure SOMEONE can do something with it, no?


It's not the kill
It's the thrill of the chase
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Old 05-25-2001, 03:23 PM   #62
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Hmmm..ruthless..well, I wouldn't go that far. At least as developers go, there isn't a lot of cutthroat action. We trade a lot of tools and procedures and code back and forth between developers, each of us trying to get the most juice out of the hardware, and sharing our tricks. We're good friends with a lot of the local developers. The publishers are a different story; they're VERY cutthroat. Just look at the war of words between Sony/Microsoft/Nintendo for next-gen consoles and you'll see how it is.

As for patches/mods, the easiest answer to why is because the world-building/AI tool is proprietary code, owned jointly by LEC and Big Ape, and because of the joint ownership, neither can make a move without the other, and neither company had the time or inclination to support the tool should a modified version be released to the public.

One of these days I'll release that Mace Windu .baf file just for laughs, but be forewarned, it's not that spectacular.
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Old 05-26-2001, 06:17 AM   #63
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Kill the publishers! MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA...oops was that out loud?
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Old 05-27-2001, 09:14 AM   #64
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Definetly.
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Old 05-28-2001, 07:01 PM   #65
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Old 05-28-2001, 08:41 PM   #66
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Can always happen eh .
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Old 05-29-2001, 07:01 AM   #67
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Bah! Just reading through some of the past posts about this, and I have to agree that all the features that had to be axed sound amazing. Although, with it being the official game of them movie, I can see why it had to be rushed. Makes you want to pluck the hairs out of George's beard one by one...
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Old 05-29-2001, 05:29 PM   #68
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*starts singing*

"You can't always get what you want... No you can't always get what you waaant... But if you try sometimes you might find... YOU GET WHHHHHHAAATTTTTT YOU NNNNNNNEEEEEEEEDDDDDDD!!! YEAH YEAH you get what you neeeeeeeeeeeeed..."

*windows break, ear drums burst, I am banished from every kareoke machine in the world*


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Old 05-30-2001, 08:10 AM   #69
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Thank god...
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Old 05-30-2001, 03:03 PM   #70
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ROTFLMAO
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Old 05-30-2001, 03:18 PM   #71
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*waves to the crowd*

Thank you Thank you! your all great... (I'm sure this is gonna get me 5 stars in my rating!)


It's not the kill
It's the thrill of the chase
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Old 05-30-2001, 06:24 PM   #72
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Oh, alright...
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Old 06-02-2001, 03:22 PM   #73
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Lightbulb

Do you all want to hear some 'REAL' singing???

[Start of the TPM revolution]

hehe!!

Oh, I had a question for zanzibar.

I used a program called ScummRevisited and Opened up the Big.lab file and found a bunch of little files called .baf files????

What are they?

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Old 06-02-2001, 05:58 PM   #74
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The .baf files are the model files. They are basically compiled versions of the original .3do and .key files from the original Jedi Knight file format, in addition to the .mat texture files, all bundled into one. They also contain several flags we use for damage tags etc.

We used the existing JK file formats because it saved us quite a bit of time. There was a little tweaking involved, but all in all, the JK stuff worked just fine. We just spent more time getting the lighting correct for TPM.

Now, if you REALLY want to start taking chances, if you copy a .baf to one of the player characters (like: sithjedi.baf renamed to obiwan.baf) and then move the copy into your TPM root directory, then it will boot up the game with that model as the playable character. WARNING: in most cases, all you can do is walk around. If you attack, or shoot, or do anything, or even GET shot, the game will probably crash, because most of the animations will be invalid. Just something for the TRULY hardcore-TPM fanatics.

Here are the names of the playable characters:
obiwan.baf
quigon.baf
queen.baf
panaka.baf

Oh, and be sure to make backup copies of everything. Just delete/move the modified .baf file out of the TPM root directory to restore the original characters.

Yes, this is how I would also instruct you how to play the Mace Windu .baf file should I get permission to distribute it.
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Old 06-03-2001, 06:24 AM   #75
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Would your Mace Windu work normally?
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Old 06-04-2001, 01:15 AM   #76
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And which file would control character abilities(Like the reason Panaka and Padme can't have sabers and only Panaka can have the R-65)?
I opened up the big.lab with conman(Jk editors know eactly what i'm talking about)

And found alot of things.

A text file named damage

4 green
3 default
5 double
0 circlebeam
3 spark
10 grenade
3 popgun
3 sixshooter
11 missile
10 tank gun
11 thermal detonator (on impact)
17 force push
3 gungaball
3 STAP
2 droid zapper
0 electro
6 stake
3 tusken
17 evil force push
4 supa-twisty green ribbon of death
2 small panaka shot
2 jawa blaster
5 tripod gun
11 player missile
6 darth maul force electro

And what is all this?
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Old 06-04-2001, 01:22 AM   #77
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Try changing some of the numbers to higher values and then put it into your TPM folder. You'll find out soon enough. At least,I think you will.
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Old 06-04-2001, 11:14 AM   #78
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Greetings Commander_598. *bows* Welcome back to JK.net .
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Old 06-04-2001, 04:25 PM   #79
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Thank you.
I love the new forums.
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Old 06-04-2001, 09:14 PM   #80
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...I'm pretty sure you can't alter the 'attributes' of the different characters. Most of the character control stuff is hard-coded, and would be unaffected by changes to files. Even if you could, some characters don't have particular animations, like Panaka has no lightsaber built into his model, therefore there was no reason to create 'block' animations for reflecting back shots. It would probably crash horribly if you tried. Panaka also has no 'swim' anims because his level, Coruscant, had no water in it.

The stuff in that list, I believe, is the damage attributes done when a particular shot hits. There's a section built into the main program code that looks at that file to deliver a 'message' to the damage table, so a force push message tells the code to give the affected character a backwards velocity etc.

Yes, the Mace Windu works exactly like the Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon models, except that his lightsaber halo is white - the halo color hue is controlled by the main program code, which was previously locked down before I made Mace. Don't get too excited about him, he really doesn't look that great.
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